Resolved 32Red vs Joseph3 - expensive mistake

[Mouche12]

With all due respect, you're bound to tell us you didn't notice, the whole point in taking a bonus is to give yourself a bigger starting balance to have a better chance of getting that big win. So who deposits, intending to take a bonus without working out what their starting balance will be beforehand?

You "haven't noticed an extra £1000" in your starting balance, you haven't noticed an email with an offer from 32Red either, the fact I said a compromise would be fair was me in part saying they should probably give you the benefit of the doubt. We see a lot of dubious stories/1 sided accounts here as you can probably imagine. I get that you're frustrated, as I would be, but as I said, I always check my starting balance so this problem would never arise.

There may be nothing in their terms covering this particular event, but it comes down to honesty doesn't it? Nobody can prove if you noticed or didn't, but things are getting quite ridiculous if casino's now have to include a term that says players must check their starting balance prior to playing - or something along the lines of.

Let's not forget though that it was the casino who made this mistake. And now the player is facing all this because he had either not seen the mistake, or thought it was just a nice bonus for a high-roller - it leaves too much room for interpretation. Staff can make mistakes, of course, but given the fact that 32Red is second to none, they should also show some responsibility for their own mistakes... hey it can happen to the best, but offering the OP instead an offer which he can never, ever turn around into a profit... it baffles me.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Let's not forget though that it was the casino who made this mistake. And now the player is facing all this because he had either not seen the mistake, or thought it was just a nice bonus for a high-roller - it leaves much room for interpretation. Staff can make mistakes, of course, but given the fact that 32Red is second to none, they should also show some responsibility for their own mistakes... hey it can happen to the best, but offering the OP instead an offer which he can never, ever turn around into a profit... it baffles me.

I'm not saying the casino never made the mistake, course they did, but that £1000 wasn't his to gamble with, he hit that win whilst playing with money that wasn't his.

In my opinion, as I said before it would be fair to pay him part of the money and allocate the rest as bonus money, that's beyond being generous surely?

Especially as you (or they rather) have to give him the benefit of the doubt when he says he never noticed the extra £1000. Personally I think it's beyond generous. I feel for him, don't get me wrong but this isn't a £100 withdrawal, this is a lot of money for both sides.

But as others have suggested, he should just do the PAB, put us all out of our collective misery

 

[dunover]

But if you honestly didn't notice the £200 was in there, placed a bet with it and won, would 32Red be entitled to your bet winnings also? No, just the £200. You wouldn't have won that bet without their £200... I am willing to give them their £1000 back.

Like paul7388 said, there is nothing specific in the terms that say anything about this scenario, so I am unsure why people are saying they are covered by their terms.

I have emailed 32Red for the chat history. I am pretty sure nothing about the bonus amount was mentioned, they popped up, said I could get a great bonus if I deposited £1000, so I deposited £1000, they said the bonus had been credited and then I started with £3000. Now please don't castrate me if this doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate, I am 90% sure that's how it went, but now I am doubting myself due to all this stress.

Listen, I and most here would give you benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. I can understand it's stressful and that's why I recommend Bryan's offer of a PAB via Max. Let them deal with it; it's not a complex issue and 32red are proactive and timely in their dealings with CM. Have a break from it while the process runs. Now your here, I think in return for all the hours members have spent commenting on this you could maybe put us straight on you intent whether to PAB and if not why?

 

[Mouche12]

I did ask the OP as well why a PAB had not yet been lodged.

About the extra $1000 (as it turned out), let's also not forget that the OP managed to meet the $75K WR since he had to wager 35x2000 instead of 1000. This should also be included in the equation.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

We hear allsorts from people here and a lot aren't truthful from the word go, and when offers are made and 'they aren't noticed' amongst other things not included in the original post/story, words such as:

Now please don't castrate me if this doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate, I am 90% sure that's how it went, but now I am doubting myself due to all this stress.

It only makes you wonder what else has been left out. Do the PAB, it's fair, if there's a compromise to be agreed upon, I'm sure Max will get you it.

Nothing to lose imo.

 

[Tirilej]

I am pretty sure nothing about the bonus amount was mentioned, they popped up, said I could get a great bonus if I deposited £1000, so I deposited £1000, they said the bonus had been credited and then I started with £3000. Now please don't castrate me if this doesn't turn out to be 100% accurate, I am 90% sure that's how it went, but now I am doubting myself due to all this stress.

I'm sure you do because that doesn't sound like them at all.

They don't pop up, like a rogue casino trying to make people deposit a big amount for a great bonus
They don't work like that.
I also can't believe that they wouldn't mention the amount, what bonus it was and given you a link with the rules.
That is how they usually do it...and especially if it's a new customer.

Please PAB. I'm really curious how this will end.

 

[silcnlayc]

I'm not saying the casino never made the mistake, course they did, but that £1000 wasn't his to gamble with, he hit that win whilst playing with money that wasn't his.

In my opinion, as I said before it would be fair to pay him part of the money and allocate the rest as bonus money, that's beyond being generous surely?

Especially as you (or they rather) have to give him the benefit of the doubt when he says he never noticed the extra £1000. Personally I think it's beyond generous. I feel for him, don't get me wrong but this isn't a £100 withdrawal, this is a lot of money for both sides.

But as others have suggested, he should just do the PAB, put us all out of our collective misery

If the casino offered 100% bonus and player deposited a $1000 and received $100...would you thnk he would start to play without noticing?? That is a large sum of money to "not notice". Gambling online is "player beware" under all scenarios and if there is a questionable act...favor goes to the casino. This is why one MUST be honest enough to know when to correct a mistake...knowing the player will be penalized in the long run. Knowing the chances of winning a large sum...why chance it if not for "greed".

I know if I was given an additional $1000 my radar would be up and I would get it in writing that it was mine to use .....If I was given only $100 , again I would notice and ask for the remainder...a player cannot have it both ways becasue the casino will ultimately win if there is any questionable act against it such as using a bonus not earned. I wish it were different but it isn't. Do I wish the player receves any monies? Yes, I do, but I feel the OP also turned a blind eye to the wrong and 2 wrongs never has made it a right.

.

.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

If the casino offered 100% bonus and player deposited a $1000 and received $100...would you thnk he would start to play without noticing?? That is a large sum of money to "not notice". Gambling online is "player beware" under all scenarios and if there is a questionable act...favor goes to the casino. This is why one MUST be honest enough to know when to correct a mistake...knowing the player will be penalized in the long run. Knowing the chances of winning a large sum...why chance it if not for "greed".



.

.

I said exactly the same thing around page 4 of this thread, if he was underpaid bonus-wise, I bet a penny to a pound he'd have noticed.

Who looks at a bonus on any given day and not work out A) what they shall deposit and B) what they shall subsequently receive after making that deposit?

Proving someone's honesty is the problem, the casino made a mistake but that's irrelevant. If I mistakenly drop my wallet and someone finds it and spends the £50 they find inside, it's still 'stealing by finding'.

 

[Respin_Ftw]

Since the chat was involved there´s just 2 possible ways i think it went.

Player-- Hi, ive made a deposit of 1000£, do i receive a nice deposit bonus for that?
CR-- Yes, ive credited your bonus now, good luck!

Player thinks, wow 200% thats nice. Starts playing, no questions asked. CR to blame imo!

I have a hard time thinking that the CR wouldnt mention anything about 100% or anything though.

The other way is offcourse;

Player-- Hi, ive made a deposit of 1000£, do i receive a nice deposit bonus for that?
CR--Yes, we do have the highroller bonus of 100% up to....(1000£)
player--Ok sounds fine
CR--Ok i have credited the bonus to your account now.


Player see´s a balance that has 1000£ more in it.Starts playing, knowing offcourse that this is wrong. Player to blame imo. But if that was the case, wouldnt this be solved by now?

Any way, would be nice to see the chat logs

And i know back in the days when i played @ 32red and went to the chat and asked for a deposit bonus, the answer ALWAYS contained the % and up to (€) amount.

We have a 50% up to 100€ etc.

 

[kavaman]

Exactly its basicly a pretty clear situation if the chat logs can be retrieved.

Some casinos actually offer bigger deposit bonuses trough chat as funny as it may seem, the offers can differ quite alot from the ones on the website. If no logs can be retrieved i think a fair solution could be to pay the winnings in full, or deduct the 1000 extra from the winnings, since the money becomes cashable after the wagering is met.

 

[nikantw]

I'm sure you do because that doesn't sound like them at all.

They don't pop up, like a rogue casino trying to make people deposit a big amount for a great bonus
They don't work like that.
I also can't believe that they wouldn't mention the amount, what bonus it was and given you a link with the rules.
That is how they usually do it...and especially if it's a new customer.

Please PAB. I'm really curious how this will end.

As mentioned before, maybe it was simply credited twice, one manually and another automatically.
Game history can clear that one, if OP wants to provide a screanshot (Detailed Statement).

I think most people would have done the PAB 3 days ago. I can't think any (reasonable) argument against it, unless you have something to hide, or you have a hidden agenda.

 

[Tirilej]

As mentioned before, maybe it was simply credited twice, one manually and another automatically.
Game history can clear that one, if OP wants to provide a screanshot (Detailed Statement).

I think most people would have done the PAB 3 days ago. I can't think any (reasonable) argument against it, unless you have something to hide, or you have a hidden agenda.

I don't think so.

He have only talked about chat, and a high roller bonus you are not even offered to claim by yourself.
That's something you go to chat and ask for if you know you are one. I think he knew what he was doing.

That also mean that he knows that any bonus comes with rules and that he should have read them.

 

[nikantw]

I don't think so.

He have only talked about chat, and a high roller bonus you are not even offered to claim by yourself.
That's something you go to chat and ask for if you know you are one. I think he knew what he was doing.

That also mean that he knows that any bonus comes with rules and that he should have read them.

At any case, whatever it was, it will show on Detailed Statement, and we will have many more info than we have now.
From what OP said it must be something like:



(I just made that picture, it's fake )

 

[NetEntFollower]

I personally think that even if the OP is correct, 32Red cannot pay up.
Their reasoning is that the OP received an extra bonus which he never should have gotten. The argument or petition stops right there. Anything that has happened past this point is void.

If a bank teller accidentally puts an extra 0, is the money yours? No way. I'm sure you've all read about how people saw millions of dollars in their bank account one day and it was just a clerical error. All of the money were returned (and I'm sure it's illegal to use money that was accidentally deposited in to your bank account as your own - or at least pay up after)

I bet the person responsible for giving OP the wrong bonus amount got a lot of flack at work but they cannot pay up to one player because of a clerical error by one employee of the company.

 

[lotusch]

I personally think that even if the OP is correct, 32Red cannot pay up.
Their reasoning is that the OP received an extra bonus which he never should have gotten. The argument or petition stops right there. Anything that has happened past this point is void.

If a bank teller accidentally puts an extra 0, is the money yours? No way. I'm sure you've all read about how people saw millions of dollars in their bank account one day and it was just a clerical error. All of the money were returned (and I'm sure it's illegal to use money that was accidentally deposited in to your bank account as your own - or at least pay up after)

I bet the person responsible for giving OP the wrong bonus amount got a lot of flack at work but they cannot pay up to one player because of a clerical error by one employee of the company.

Oh yes they do need to pay up...
If he got 1000 to much,deduct it from the winnings,easy peasy...

 

[spintee]

Oh yes they do need to pay up...
If he got 1000 to much,deduct it from the winnings,easy peasy...

Yes its not as if he was not going to deposit again after sticking a 1k in, and putng that much in is well out of my league and that 25k would of been most probs put back in no time

 

[mysino]

This is really making 32red look bad, they should have resolved this by now.
Paying the 25000 they owe probably is alot less then the business they will lose because of this.
I will be posting this on my blog and alerting players to stay away.
If 32red support made the fault then thats 32reds problem not the players.
Step up and pay the player.

 

[Beravek7]

One more time- the guy won not because 32red gave him some miraclous 1000 pounds extra- he won because he had a luck. Now instead
of only taking back 1000 pounds from the player-32 red also want to take all HIS luck to themselves (and his luck
amounts to approx. 24000 pounds). Is that fair in any way?

 

[wobble33]

Guys n girls..

32 red will sort this eventually, and this thread will be closed. bryan, max and 32red will come up with a decent outcome, that's for sure if the PAB is in.

I would like to point out though, 32 red have a line in the T/Cs for EVERY bonus that's says, once the deposit has been used you are not allowed to claim your bonus.
This guy had too much bonus whatever reason he WAGERED the lot.
Once you get the bonus, as soon as you start wagering the bonus, its argument over I am afraid. the FULL wagering was done regardless if he got too much bonus or not.

So wagering completed, no way can any casino say oh hold on, I give you too much bonus! I need it back, ah you have wagered it, eh you now got 1 million pounds! sorry but you just cant have it. you played with too much money off us.

Sorry but the OP must be paid, and in my opinion, 32 red will have to take it on the chin, and lesson learned by the C/S.

I had a similar situation myself with europalace casino. but because I had wagered the extra £500 bonus, they said no problem you can now cashout. I received the full amount.

 

[spintee]

Guys n girls..

32 red will sort this eventually, and this thread will be closed. bryan, max and 32red will come up with a decent outcome, that's for sure if the PAB is in.

I would like to point out though, 32 red have a line in the T/Cs for EVERY bonus that's says, once the deposit has been used you are not allowed to claim your bonus.
This guy had too much bonus whatever reason he WAGERED the lot.
Once you get the bonus, as soon as you start wagering the bonus, its argument over I am afraid. the FULL wagering was done regardless if he got too much bonus or not.

So wagering completed, no way can any casino say oh hold on, I give you too much bonus! I need it back, ah you have wagered it, eh you now got 1 million pounds! sorry but you just cant have it. you played with too much money off us.

Sorry but the OP must be paid, and in my opinion, 32 red will have to take it on the chin, and lesson learned by the C/S.

I had a similar situation myself with europalace casino. but because I had wagered the extra £500 bonus, they said no problem you can now cashout. I received the full amount.

Ive siad it many of times, cs need a kick where the the sun does not shine, & 32 cs no alot more than others, & also said if we get the chat sesion than game over, If pab is involved than Max will surley see the convo that took place

 

[NetEntFollower]

Oh yes they do need to pay up...
If he got 1000 to much,deduct it from the winnings,easy peasy...

Unfortunately it isn't so "easy peasy"

Please read my post and try to understand what I'm saying before passing it off with euphemisms.

If the OP won the 25k with the money he shouldn't have had in the first place - he should not be awarded the winnings.

 

[lotusch]

Unfortunately it isn't so "easy peasy"

Please read my post and try to understand what I'm saying before passing it off with euphemisms.

If the OP won the 25k with the money he shouldn't have had in the first place - he should not be awarded the winnings.

I did read your post,I did read the whole thread actually but I stick to my guns here,just as you have the right to stick to yours.
Fact is he did receive twice the bonus he was entitled to...Was that his fault or the casino's fault?
Now,after we have clearly identified this was a fault from the casino the player had the mission the meet the WR on this massive bonus.
As he received double the bonus amount obviously he also had to overcome a much higher amount in WR before he could even thinking of cashing out.
So this is the second fact where I think the player is well within it's rights.
If he'd lost the deposit as most people would have done this whole issue would have not arisen.

Casino made the mistake,period.
Player manages to play through whopping WR on the bonus.
Player wants to cash his winnings.
Casino voids the winnings.

For me a no go,and an epic fail from this reputable casino if they stick to their decisions.

So deduct the 1000 from his winnings,fair enough.
Or at least come with a decent solution instead of giving him his 25k back with an absurd -EV WR attached to it.
That is disrespectful and a very very cheap way to get rid of this "problem".

 

[silcnlayc]

Unfortunately it isn't so "easy peasy"

Please read my post and try to understand what I'm saying before passing it off with euphemisms.

If the OP won the 25k with the money he shouldn't have had in the first place - he should not be awarded the winnings.

Agree. Casino made an error and the player made no move to correct the error so both were at fault, but in the gambling world, the onus is always on the player to prove through no fault of theirs did they do wrong and not take advantage of a mistake, not the casnos. If one wants to keep winnings, one must have clean hands and this player did not have clean hands by not reporting the error even though the casino erred.

.

 

[nikantw]

Unfortunately it isn't so "easy peasy"

Please read my post and try to understand what I'm saying before passing it off with euphemisms.

If the OP won the 25k with the money he shouldn't have had in the first place - he should not be awarded the winnings.

What if he lost the "extra" 1000 and won with the legit 1000?
T&C say that you play with the cash first. They don't say what part of the bonus you play first!

If a law abiding citizen went to chat, asked "what will you give me if I deposit 1000" and chat said "2000", then 32Red should pay (and the 32Red I know would pay). If a fraudster with multiple accounts exploited a mistake in the sytem, or tries to blackmail 32Red and destroy their reputation, 32Red shouldn't pay.

 

[Patrick123]

Exactly why the player should take them to court and absolutely destroy them. The casino world isn't the real world. In the real world a company doesn't get to make, enforce and execute the law.

 

[The Dude]

Exactly why the player should take them to court and absolutely destroy them. The casino world isn't the real world. In the real world a company doesn't get to make, enforce and execute the law.

Feeling pretty bold eh?

 

[spintee]

Unfortunately it isn't so "easy peasy"

Please read my post and try to understand what I'm saying before passing it off with euphemisms.

If the OP won the 25k with the money he shouldn't have had in the first place - he should not be awarded the winnings.

ho ho, hold on a sec, who said that he won he won with the money he not meant to have? Unless you was the chat host who spoke to him and told him it was only 100% bonus, Even if that was the case and only 100% (going by rules on site) and the cs did f%uk up than at least share half the blame,

32 red is a good site but I stooped playing there a while ago after changing a few rules, Please note that not many of us no about these new rules and regs coming, But can asure you tha casinos have known a log time, Have we been informed? No not till last minute, Im not talkig a bout 32 red in the last line but believe me there's been some big changes since the rle was anoused and any1 correct me if wrong

(thats not correct me on spelling I no its terrible)

 

[asadzareef89]

Exactly why the player should take them to court and absolutely destroy them. The casino world isn't the real world. In the real world a company doesn't get to make, enforce and execute the law.

Actually u are a bit off there, in real world all the companies do have their own terms and if u don't like them take ur business elsewhere so if u still do business with them they can enforce their terms as and when they are broken(My opinion, could be right or wrong)

 

[Patrick123]

Actually u are a bit off there, in real world all the companies do have their own terms and if u don't like them take ur business elsewhere so if u still do business with them they can enforce their terms as and when they are broken(My opinion, could be right or wrong)

Completely wrong. The law decides what terms are applicable to consumer contracts. Don't be a victim.

 

[Patrick123]

Feeling pretty bold eh?

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

 

[spintee]

Feeling pretty bold eh?

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

I think we we all going bold ( I know that was not ment to be as losing hair) but after reading some these threads I think Im getting that way, Sorry Byran but looks like you beat me to it well at least the the font of head, He He

 

[maphesto]

I'd rather be bold than bald.

 

[NetEntFollower]

Now,after we have clearly identified this was a fault from the casino the player had the mission the meet the WR on this massive bonus.

Here's the issue - the fault was the casino's for giving him the bonus amount. However, just because the fault of depositing the wrong amount does not give the player the right to spend the extra money - with or without knowledge of the said error.

It's quite similar to my analogy with the bank, really. Just because you magically gained an extra 1k out of nowhere, doesn't mean it's yours to keep.

What if he lost the "extra" 1000 and won with the legit 1000?
T&C say that you play with the cash first. They don't say what part of the bonus you play first!

Loopholes, I like! But I don't they'll let this one slide

 

[Patrick123]

Here's the issue - the fault was the casino's for giving him the bonus amount. However, just because the fault of depositing the wrong amount does not give the player the right to spend the extra money - with or without knowledge of the said error.

It's quite similar to my analogy with the bank, really. Just because you magically gained an extra 1k out of nowhere, doesn't mean it's yours to keep.



Loopholes, I like! But I don't they'll let this one slide

It's nothing like your bank analogy which has no place here. The player has paid in full for this bonus via the wagering requirement. As has been said many times the player would not have been refunded had he lost his deposit.

 

[243 lines=daft]

Much like the pudgy guy with the glasses holding the shell in 'Lord of the Flies', I'm going to throw in a bit of common sense here among all the gleeful wardancing.

25k is a lot to you and me but let's get some perspective.
There are highrollers throwing 25k on a single spin on roulette table in Vegas on any given day of the week.
32 Red is a company listed on the stock exchange that sponsors football clubs.
It has an exemplary record for fair play stretching over ten years.

Do you seriously think they would not be paying 25k to a player if they didn't have grounds to believe the player was in the wrong?
Because I don't.

From a progressive view going forward Joseph has exposed a loophole in the current forum setup that might need addressing.

A player can ..

1 - come on here, state his objective to arouse mob justice then
2 -immediately mention court action preventing the casino from posting on the forum
3 -refuse to use the site's mediation system and refuse to explain why or even answer questions about it.

This then leaves the situation like an open wound, and the player is able to create bedlam with minimal posting
No new information can be added as the casino cannot post and the player will not PAB.

Everyone speculating is guessing the truth (because we do not know the facts)
FWIW my guess is that Joseph does not want to PAB or go to court. My guess is that he wants to strong arm the casino into paying up using a carefully conceived plan
that he has been working on since joining the forum a month ago.
i.e that he is getting members to do the work for him much like the Pied piper leading a merry dance round the garden.

(Okay I'm putting down the conch now and getting on with my bacon sandwich..)

 

[NetEntFollower]

It's nothing like your bank analogy which has no place here. The player has paid in full for this bonus via the wagering requirement. As has been said many times the player would not have been refunded had he lost his deposit.

A clerical error gave him money he should not have received in the first place. That's what my analogy comes down to.

From what I read:
32Red gave him money which he should not have gotten. He won using that money. They are voiding the win because of it. Their only reasoning is that he received more bonus money than what he was supposed to receive. And that's where my bank analogy comes into play - any money you gain by clerical errors will be returned and if you spent the money, you will have to return it. In this case, I don't think 32Red will pursue claiming back the money he spent but they are within their rights to void his winnings if they are working within their T&C.

 

[The Dude]

There is no obligation on the op to use any arbitration service let alone shill ones constructed by the betting community. Casinomeister is an affiliate site that offers to assist with player issues. blah blah blah.

Obviously Patrick here has a bee in his bonnet. Funny how he waited a full year to share his vitriolic viewpoint.

What "shill" arbitration service? This one? I am afraid not. You can peruse the history of the PAB and/or the forum/newsletters/webcasts and in doing so you will discover that there have been quite a number of Accredited Casinos that did find themselves in hot water - a number of them were even placed in the rogue section. Jackpot Factory, Fortune Lounge group, Lock Casino, Rushmore Group, MiniVegas group, Betfair, Sunny Group, The Chance Group, Bwin, just to name a few, have found themselves in the Not Recommended and/or Rogue section - only Jackpot Factory, Fortune Lounge, and MiniVegas were redeemed. So don't give me this shit about shilly bullshit.

Guess the advertisements aren't gambling links then....

So what? There are banners here - and amazingly few compared to other sites. How many magazines have picked up that had no adverts? Newspapers? TV shows? And yes, I have not put all my eggs into one basket. This site is managed so that if I need to remove a casino group we can still continue on without that much of a financial hit. Don't forget, Casinomeister has been around for over 16 years and is accustomed to change.

But one thing that will never change are narrow-minded trolls that will do whatever it takes to demean, belittle, and tarnish whatever good we do. It's players like you who poison threads like this - in fact the entire forum. You are the exact type of person who, when he doesn't get his way, puts on a phony persona and tries to destroy something that is trying to do the right thing.

 

[Patrick123]

He didn't gain the money by a clerical error. He gained the money by wagering it through. The bonus was awarded by a clerical error (potentially). There is a world of difference. This hasn't just appeared as cash in his account. He has paid for it and as has been said many times - his deposit would not have been returned had he lost.

 

[spintee]

Obviously Patrick here has a bee in his bonnet. Funny how he waited a full year to share his vitriolic viewpoint.

What "shill" arbitration service? This one? I am afraid not. You can peruse the history of the PAB and/or the forum/newsletters/webcasts and in doing so you will discover that there have been quite a number of Accredited Casinos that did find themselves in hot water - a number of them were even placed in the rogue section. Jackpot Factory, Fortune Lounge group, Lock Casino, Rushmore Group, MiniVegas group, Betfair, Sunny Group, The Chance Group, Bwin, just to name a few, have found themselves in the Not Recommended and/or Rogue section - only Jackpot Factory, Fortune Lounge, and MiniVegas were redeemed. So don't give me this shit about shilly bullshit.



So what? There are banners here - and amazingly few compared to other sites. How many magazines have picked up that had no adverts? Newspapers? TV shows? And yes, I have not put all my eggs into one basket. This site is managed so that if I need to remove a casino group we can still continue on without that much of a financial hit. Don't forget, Casinomeister has been around for over 16 years and is accustomed to change.

But one thing that will never change are narrow-minded trolls that will do whatever it takes to demean, belittle, and tarnish whatever good we do. It's players like you who poison threads like this - in fact the entire forum. You are the exact type of person who, when he doesn't get his way, puts on a phony persona and tries to destroy something that is trying to do the right thing.

I did not see a few good brand and names in there? Because the threes is a reason and they are good, Not trying to suck u no what but you guys do a f&king good job here and people miss that bit.

With the banners its a gambling site what do people expect? I said the other day that no matter what you go on theers banners, even sites unrelated to gambling they are there, thats cookies for you,
Bear in mind that alot of hard work goes on behind the scene what we do not see, 1st of is the time, than cash to host such a site, I give my upmost respect to the mesister and side kicks, as what other sites will look after you as much? Also with them banners and oher sites they will display any thing even low you may be well riped off

 

[bigjohn]

Much like the pudgy guy with the glasses holding the shell in 'Lord of the Flies', I'm going to throw in a bit of common sense here among all the gleeful wardancing.

25k is a lot to you and me but let's get some perspective.
There are highrollers throwing 25k on a single spin on roulette table in Vegas on any given day of the week.
32 Red is a company listed on the stock exchange that sponsors football clubs.
It has an exemplary record for fair play stretching over ten years.

Do you seriously think they would not be paying 25k to a player if they didn't have grounds to believe the player was in the wrong?
Because I don't.

From a progressive view going forward Joseph has exposed a loophole in the current forum setup that might need addressing.

A player can ..

1 - come on here, state his objective to arouse mob justice then
2 -immediately mention court action preventing the casino from posting on the forum
3 -refuse to use the site's mediation system and refuse to explain why or even answer questions about it.

This then leaves the situation like an open wound, and the player is able to create bedlam with minimal posting
No new information can be added as the casino cannot post and the player will not PAB.

Everyone speculating is guessing the truth (because we do not know the facts)
FWIW my guess is that Joseph does not want to PAB or go to court. My guess is that he wants to strong arm the casino into paying up using a carefully conceived plan
that he has been working on since joining the forum a month ago.
i.e that he is getting members to do the work for him much like the Pied piper leading a merry dance round the garden.

(Okay I'm putting down the conch now and getting on with my bacon sandwich..)

Very good perspective.

My own thoughts on this have been slowly migrating around to this view although I did bring up some of these points early on in the thread. I told him mentioning legal action was not a good idea and I pointed him to the FAQ for using the arbitration services offered here.

Someone who deposits $1000 in one shot should have every single T&C committed to memory and have calculated their playthrough and all. Heck, I do that for a $20 deposit!

The casinos original offer may very well be the best this player could have hoped for but I would not be surprised if that offer has been taken off the table.

If there is no demonstrable skirting of the rules by the OP, re-set balance with correct bonus amount and let him play it out, else, return deposit and ban the player.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If the OP refuses to PAB, then 32Red should say "bring on the court action". If the OP is merely bluffing, this will catch him out. If he is serious, then the solicitors from both sides can deal with it, and most likely it will be settled out of court. This isn't that different to a PAB, an out of court settlement is a mediation between the two side's legal representatives, whereas a PAB is a mediation between player and casino directly, but conducted through Max.

All I know is that this is an aberration, the usual policy at 32Red when a mistake is made on their part is to fix it in the manner most favourable to the player. If the bonus is duplicated, they let you keep it without fuss, even if you win. This policy should NOT depend on the outcome, such as letting the player keep it if the result is less than £xxxx, but going after them in draconian fashion if the win is greater.

It is this which has shocked me, as most casinos I know will not punish a player for an error made by their CS reps. I also can't see why an additional £1000, with it's -EV 30x WR, is such a big deal for a company like 32Red. Their reasoning (shown in the emails) reminds me of insurance company's nit picking arguments for not paying out on a claim, even when the problem was created by the insurer's own sales rep (as it often is).

 

[spintee]

If the OP refuses to PAB, then 32Red should say "bring on the court action". If the OP is merely bluffing, this will catch him out. If he is serious, then the solicitors from both sides can deal with it, and most likely it will be settled out of court. This isn't that different to a PAB, an out of court settlement is a mediation between the two side's legal representatives, whereas a PAB is a mediation between player and casino directly, but conducted through Max.

All I know is that this is an aberration, the usual policy at 32Red when a mistake is made on their part is to fix it in the manner most favourable to the player. If the bonus is duplicated, they let you keep it without fuss, even if you win. This policy should NOT depend on the outcome, such as letting the player keep it if the result is less than £xxxx, but going after them in draconian fashion if the win is greater.

It is this which has shocked me, as most casinos I know will not punish a player for an error made by their CS reps. I also can't see why an additional £1000, with it's -EV 30x WR, is such a big deal for a company like 32Red. Their reasoning (shown in the emails) reminds me of insurance company's nit picking arguments for not paying out on a claim, even when the problem was created by the insurer's own sales rep (as it often is).

Very valid point, They should not employ any tom dick and harry that can give out this type bonus or anything else, Alow we have been assured by many reps that deatils are safe any cs are reliable, Well I think different, I have many casino accounts and many email addys, I get many of offers from unknown casinos to email inbox I use for gamble, I see jack all sent in others so info passed along somwhere as we all no it happens, cut along story short if it was an error by cs than let it be and pay out, change the cs or do not have none as they do more than bad than good, Ive seen alot of people state they will not sign up to sites due to lack of cs ect, I rather none than be giving bullshit

 

[The Dude]

Just a quick admin note: To set the record straight, I do not ban people from this forum because they disagree with me. Patrick123 was banned because he had another account in the forum, which was banned last year for being a troll - which was connected to a number of other accounts in this forum - one of which was banned for submitting a fraudulant PAB against Redflush casino. It was proven beyand a shadow of a doubt that he had opened several accounts there.

Here are his accounts in this forum:

topoor
cowboypat
patrick123
bigjohn1971 (fraudster PAB)
reject726
3dfella

And of course, banning these accounts results in fan mail like this:

Hahaha you fucking little dickhead. I didn't say your site was a shill. In fact I differentiated between you and the shills by saying you wet an affiliate site.

You show yet again what a stupid, quick tempered arsehole you are. I hope your casino of the decade is shown to be as corrupt as you are and embarrasses this and shows you up for the arsewipe you are.

Prick.

So this just drives one point home, there are snakes in the grass.

Back to the issue of the OP and 32Red. I'm giving the player until close of business today to submit his complaint here.

 

[maphesto]

From bigjohn1971's profile page:

Best Casino IMHO:
32 red



Must have changed his mind then...

 

[incrediblestuff]

I also would like for the player to make use of the PAB-service.

I see so much "wrong" posts that it hurts my eyes...
Everything that could be said, has been said, and most of it was speculation and opinions based on "what if" and "when..then"scenarios, and now it's really futile to drag this on and time to see some results based on the facts (which are still unclear)..

As courtesy i ask even the ones that are booing at 32Red in a condemning way now, may be so kind to patiently await the results of the PAB and reserve their comments until then?

 

[dunover]

I also would like for the player to make use of the PAB-service.

I see so much "wrong" posts that it hurts my eyes...
Everything that could be said, has been said, and most of it was speculation and opinions based on "what if" and "when..then"scenarios, and now it's really futile to drag this on and time to see some results based on the facts (which are still unclear)..

As courtesy i ask even the ones that are booing at 32Red in a condemning way now, may be so kind to patiently await the results of the PAB and reserve their comments until then?

I agree. This thread has run its race now. The ifs, whys and wherefores have all been discussed. Like many I have wasted time and energy on this thread, and for reasons only known to himself the OP will either not listen to the PAB advice given or can't proceed with one. If he doesn't meet Bryan's deadline for PAB then AFAIC he can go hang and 32red can spend the 25k on a new painting for their offices or something for all I care.

Then this topic can have the lid put on it and be chucked in the trash.

 

[3jokers]

If it's true like OP states, then it's a scandal. Of course the player should be paid. Shouldn't even have gotten this far to be honest.

In the future I would advice the player to play at big NetEnt casinos to avoid this. Smaller bonuses but you always get paid.

 

[Azzurri]

I've read this whole thread (finally ), and I'm struggling to see how or why the discussion has lasted so long?

Being generous, surely this discussion ended after the second time the op was told by Max and Bryan (amongst others), why and how he should lodge a PAB?

I'm all for player rights, but when you have repeatedly been offered a free, and often successful, meditation service, yet continually refuse it, then you automatically lose any credibility in my opinion.

And I don't buy the op's reasons for not wanting to PAB either, as even if he did believe it wasn't a totally unbiased investigation, why the hell not try it anyway when you have nothing to lose by doing so? It's a free service, often successful (unless the player is bullshitting), could potentially save thousands in alternative legal fees, and would have no affect on future legal proceedings should the ruling be in the casinos favor.

This to me sets off enough alarm bells to form the opinion the op isn't worth this forums time or space, let alone 30 pages of repetitive nonsense.

I'm always too willing to give op's the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty, but I have no patience for those who continually ignore the helpful advice they are receiving. This tells me they have other motives, aren't being forthcoming, and have no intention of using this site for the purpose in which it exists.

Sorry to say, but I think some of you are being manipulated by the op, and are doing and saying exactly what he hoped you would.

I think the best course of action from this point is silence, and not giving this thread any further air time than it already has.

The op has sat back and let wild speculation grow, yet if he was serious about a resolution, the advice is simple and clear.

I smell bullshit yet again.

 

[Mouche12]

I join all those who are surprised about the OP's not lodging a PAB so far. Time's running out and the least he can do, given all the support given to him (even a Poll), is that he lets us know what his next step will be... I understand the stress he's going through but it's just not nice to give us the silent treatment at this point.

 

[SlotMonster]

A bit if offtop

This (ex) CM member is more likely to be a woman, and pretty old (>50 years). I recall "topoor" claiming she was a VIP player at BigCasino, and that customer was a woman.

More details here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-bait-and-switch.45025/

Just a quick admin note: To set the record straight, I do not ban people from this forum because they disagree with me. Patrick123 was banned because he had another account in the forum, which was banned last year for being a troll - which was connected to a number of other accounts in this forum - one of which was banned for submitting a fraudulant PAB against Redflush casino. It was proven beyand a shadow of a doubt that he had opened several accounts there.

Here are his accounts in this forum:

topoor
cowboypat
patrick123
bigjohn1971 (fraudster PAB)
reject726
3dfella

And of course, banning these accounts results in fan mail like this:


So this just drives one point home, there are snakes in the grass.

Back to the issue of the OP and 32Red. I'm giving the player until close of business today to submit his complaint here.