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Resolved Casino - Bait and Switch?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by furbert, Jul 14, 2011.

    Jul 14, 2011
  1. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    Hello there. Could I get some opinions please? I deposited £2000 at a casino and was given a generous 30% bonus of £600. They have now changed their terms and reduced the wagering contribution of the game I was playing to 10% from 50%. I am around halfway through the wagering and noticed the change today.

    I have a screenshot showing the terms as they were on the day I deposited. I have spoken to their live chat who tell me that they have the right to change the bonus whenever they like.

    Surely this should only apply to new bonuses? To do anything to an existing bonus is changing the deal after it has been accepted and is classed as a bait and switch?

    The manager is supposed to be contacting me tomorrow but I am concerned about this as £2000 is a lot for me so I would appreciate the forums opinions.

    The live chat have told me that the manager is happy to answer me here so I will reveal the casino name if I am unhappy with the resolution or with their permission if I am happy.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Jul 14, 2011
  3. baldidiot

    baldidiot Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    London
    The terms you should be held to are the terms that were in effect when you took the bonus. Taking the screenshot was very smart thinking :thumbsup:
     
  4. Jul 14, 2011
  5. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    You're definitely in the right.
    If you can't resolve it with the casino then it could be Pitch-A-Bitch time!
    (As long as they're not in the Rogue Pit).

    {Edit} Just noticed this is your first post, so to explain PAB in case you don't know it:

    First please send the casino representative (if they have one here) a Private Message about your problem.
    Reps are listed here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showroster.php

    After giving them a reasonable amount of time, if they do not put things right to your satisfaction, you can Pitch-A-Bitch.
    This is CasinoMeister's FREE service to help players with problems at non-rogue casinos.
    Before you start, make sure the casino in question is NOT in the Rogue Pit or on the No Can Do list.
    To submit your PAB, click here: Pitch-A-Bitch
    Be sure to read ALL the terms for submitting a PAB, including the Frequently Asked Questions here: PAB FAQs

    Welcome to the forum! :thumbsup:
    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jul 14, 2011
  7. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Hello, Max Drayman writing, I'm the Player Complaints Manager here at Casinomeister.com

    There's a couple things you should know before you proceed.

    First thing is that you should check our I-Gaming Forum Reps page to see if there is a contact person for your casino. That should be your first step, before posting on the forums.

    Secondly you should know that taking your issue to the forums like you have here can and likely will make you ineligible for our Pitch-A-Bitch dispute resolution service. If you have any intention of going that route you should stop posting now, and read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ ASAP.

    Finally this "if it's resolved I'll post X, if it isn't I'll post Y" sound suspiciously like you are trying to strong-arm the casino into giving you what you want, regardless of your initial "Could I get some opinions please?" approach.

    Blackmailing the casino and/or exploiting these forums for your own agenda are serious no-no's -- see the Forum Rules if you want to find out just how serious -- and will likely get you in a world of pain hereabouts.

    Needless to say I'm suggesting you take a moment to think over your approach here. Proceed if you must, but you're quite possibly going about this all wrong.
     
  8. Jul 14, 2011
  9. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    Sorry to hear you feel that way. However I don't really see your point about strong arming. I'll reveal the casino name either way but only with their permission if I'm happy with their resolution.
     
  10. Jul 14, 2011
  11. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It has nothing to do with feeling a certain way, we have policies on dealing with complaints. There is plenty of information readily available for you to solve it.

    The forum occasionally receives postings from players who threaten casinos behind the scenes with bad press. We just hope that this is not the case in your situation.
     
  12. Jul 14, 2011
  13. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    No. I don't believe I have done that. The casino has a rep here and I have given them a link to this thread and advised them that this issue relates to their casino.

    I haven't told them do this or I'll post in the forums and tell everyone how bad you are. I have told them that I'll post on here though to ask for help as they seemed so adamant that they can do as they wish.

    If the casino has done nothing wrong surely there shouldn't be an issue?

    I accept you have a complaints policy and prefer that complaints be kept to that system but I'm not at that stage yet. Is it not ok to post here without raising a complaint? I apologise if I have got this wrong.
     
  14. Jul 14, 2011
  15. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister

    Occupation:
    Affiliate
    Location:
    Belarus
    Casino Name - BigCasino

    Hello everyone,

    As I said above, the casino in question is BigCasino. I’m posting here to explain the situation with the OP (and 26 more players involved).

    We developed some kind of VIP promotion, when player who received from us a VIP Status (we don’t have VIP program, but will have soon) is getting generous bonuses on their large deposits (basically, on EVERY deposit). Please note, that in our Bonus Terms and Conditions we have xB but not x(B+D) so your WR depends only on the amount of your bonus, which IMO makes them more easy to clear and more attractive.

    But after close analysis of our games we noticed that with 50% contribution of every Poker Game it’s too easy to clear the bonus and many players just deposited, cleared the bonus and then withdrew. We paid them in full and even didn’t block them and didn’t exclude them from our promotions, but our management has taken a decision to change the contribution. But unfortunately we can’t change contribution only for new players or for those who don’t have any bonus, we can change it only for ALL players. I know it’s not good at all, but I have to deal with what I have. We will update our SW to be able to do that, but the major release is not going to be very soon, sorry.

    So we decided to count all players who have the bonus uncleared and contact them personally after we changed the contribution, explain the situation and find the best solution. I know, we could have just sent them emails, but we decided that the situation is extraordinary, and contacted them one by one by the phone. In the most cases, if player was close to complete the WR, we just released the bonus and made it withdrawable. If player wagered more than it required – we released the bonus and added a gift to their accounts. It’s free money, No WR, fully withdrawable, depends on how much they wagered above.

    Unfortunately, we didn’t reach them all quickly, and there are still some players unreached (some of them just told us they don’t care, some of them were busy and asked to call them later etc). We also waited for calls, emails or Live Chat from these players to be able to deal with them. For tomorrow there are still 12 players to deal with, including the OP.

    The OP actually was the first one who contacted our Support via Live Chat. I think I can explain by the fact that they played only Oasis Poker and noticed that something is wrong pretty quickly.

    Anyway, after giving wrong explanation to the OP (Note: in or Bonus T&C we have a statement “BigCasino.co.uk reserves the right to modify, change, suspend or terminate bonus award at any time for any reason without prior notification to players.” – support operator thought the player was asking about Bonus Terms, not about contribution and sent this statement as an explanation) our staff advised to wait for tomorrow when I will come to work and will continue dealing with players.

    But the OP disagreed with that and replied to our Support Operator that they are going to raise an issue at public forum.

    I think I should reveal few strings from the chat to make it more clear:

    And another one:

    But now we see the thread here.

    You may consider it as our official statement: in no way BigCasino was intended to steal players’ money or make the wagering more difficult for players who has already had a bonus in our casino. As I said, it was technically impossible to change the contribution for new players only, so we are trying to deal with EVERY player involved and find the best solution for both sides. All players will be paid in full if they wish to withdraw their remaining balance including cleared bonuses. If it will require account verification – we will ask for documents, verify them and process players’ withdrawals.

    From me personally: the OP will be paid tomorrow early in the morning (deposit + player’s winnings). It’s the first thing I will do when I come to work tomorrow.

    If you have any questions – let me know.

    I hope I informed you well.

    Best regards,
    Viktar.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jul 14, 2011
  17. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    Thank you Viktar. Unfortunately you have posted only selections of the chat and omited the sections that show me stating that I would post but not name the casino and the section were I provided your staff with the link.
     
  18. Jul 14, 2011
  19. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    hi ,seems straight forward & thanks to victar ( slot monster )for letting us know its part of his casino , although the op does have a solid point in regards to changing terms on a whim & do hope that you inform all players asap concerning bonuses played at your casino so you dont run into these problems again )
     
  20. Jul 14, 2011
  21. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister

    Occupation:
    Affiliate
    Location:
    Belarus
    I can post the full chat transcript if you wish. You should also have the full version, as we send the copy to the player after every chat session.
     
  22. Jul 14, 2011
  23. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    I have spoken with your live chat previously and never received a transcript. As such I do not have 1 to post.
     
  24. Jul 14, 2011
  25. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister

    Occupation:
    Affiliate
    Location:
    Belarus
    As I said in the end of the post: in no way BigCasino was intended to steal players’ money or make the wagering more difficult for players who has already had a bonus in our casino. As I said, it was technically impossible to change the contribution for new players only, so we are trying to deal with EVERY player involved and find the best solution for both sides. All players will be paid in full if they wish to withdraw their remaining balance including cleared bonuses. If it will require account verification – we will ask for documents, verify them and process players’ withdrawals.

    We will also update our SW to be able to change contribution for new players only, and will develop the strategy on how to deal with such situations in the future if it ever happens (but I doubt it ever will).
     
  26. Jul 14, 2011
  27. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister

    Occupation:
    Affiliate
    Location:
    Belarus
    You just didn't enter your email before starting the chat, so we were unable to send it to you.
     
  28. Jul 14, 2011
  29. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    I don't think you've read my original post with enough care to understand what I said.

    My key points were:
    • you should have tried to settle this with the casino rep BEFORE posting on the forums.
    • you will probably kill your chances of letting us help you through the Pitch-A-Bitch process by posting here. In other words it's not a matter of you being ready "yet" to go there, it's a matter of that rapidly being removed as an option if you proceed here as you have been.
    • that pressuring the casino, as it certainly appears you have done this deliberately, via the forums is a violation of our Forum Rules.

    In other words we're asking you nicely to comply with the procedures that every other member here is expected to follow. I understand that you may have something else in mind but it's not cool to flaunt and disregard our established procedures in order to pursue your personal goals. That too is covered in the Forum Rules and could get you booted off the site.

    Note that we're trying to help you understand our site and how to get things done here. Please take this as the good-spirited advice that it is and proceed accordingly.
     
  30. Jul 14, 2011
  31. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    I did enter my email.

    After reading your post again it seems strange to me that you had a massive change which you were anxious to inform your players about and, according to your post waited for the ones you couldnt contact to contact you yet your staff weren't briefed or able to reassure me that this would be resolved without issue? I also have no missed calls from you.

    If we are being honest your staff only suggested I speak to you when I mentioned that your actions were in my view illegal and at that I had to contact you not the other way around.

    I also dont know why you describe the bonuses you released as free money with no wr seeing as they had already been cleared or almost cleared?

    Anyway, thank you for your response and resolution. I will gladly accept it and look forward to my withdrawal.

    I would be interested if any other people at big casino could state whether they were contacted today?
     
  32. Jul 14, 2011
  33. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    Hi Max,

    I'm sorry we've got off on the wrong foot and I concede that I should have contacted Viktar before posting and I apologise for not doing so.

    I dont think I have broken the forum rules by telling them I would post here without naming them and that I would post asking for help. I don't think this is threatening a bad review or with rogueing and is much more honest and less threatening than stating Im a casinomeister member you know.

    I would be grateful if you could explain what is wrong with what I did so that I can ensure that I do not make the mistake again.

    Thanks
    M
     
  34. Jul 14, 2011
  35. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister

    Occupation:
    Affiliate
    Location:
    Belarus
    I will check that tomorrow. Thanks.


    We only contacted player which were involved, i.e. our changes affected them and their bonuses in the mean time.
    We didn't call you, because you are on the line, and were contacting our player one by one, as I said above.

    Our staff suggested it not only when you mentioned that, but also when they saw they can't resolve the issue on their "level" as it requires management to step in.

    Please, read my post(s) more carefully. I said that if player wagered more than they were required, we release the bonus AND add a gift (which is Free Money with no WR).

    You are welcome. I hope other players will post here, if they don't mind.
     
  36. Jul 14, 2011
  37. LHofsdal

    LHofsdal Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NY
    @SlotMonster-I don't play at your casino, but thank you for coming to this thread and posting an explination. I do think it was really nice of the casino to contact the players personally, and not just send an e-mail, to me that does show alot of respect for your players. That goes a long way in my book!!!

    @furburt- Patience, my fellow CM member, YOU NEED PATIENCE!!! While I am sure it is frustrating, the CSR asked you to wait until the next day for the manager to reply. I don't think that was to much to ask. CSR's my not know the answer to every question, and I think asking you to wait until the manager comes in was the best response they could have given you at the time. Instead of giving you some hogwash, they wanted to make sure you were going to get the correct response and not the hogwash you were given before. Can't blame the CSR for that.

    SlotMonster did state that you will be paid, so the outcome should be to your liking. I think SlotMonster is a man of his word, and give him time to do his job, and be PATIENT!!! I know it is alot easier said than done, but atleast try.

    The one good thing about the way this casino handled everything, is they are contacting players, (most people can remember when a casino (I forgot which one) had a promotion that they totally screwed up with they we confiscating winnings and even going back into players bank accounts to get their money back. Thankfully this is not the case here.) And contacting each player this promotion pertains to is going to take some time.

    Hang in there, I can see the casino is trying to do the right thing.

    Just my 2 cents.
    LH
     
    3 people like this.
  38. Jul 14, 2011
  39. furbert

    furbert Banned User - troll

    Occupation:
    Pharma industry
    Location:
    England
    I'm sorry, you didn't call me because I was on the line? What does that mean? On another call? I have call waiting and again have no missed calls.

    I don't accept at all your explanation concerning your live chat agent, he was clear on what I was talking about and even check my account so knew this wasn't a new bonus request.

    I misread your post concerning the gift and apologise. If its true it's exceptional service and I applaud it.

    I'm not happy that you have painted me as someone who threatened your casino with these forums as I clearly told your staff that I would not name the casino and that I would give you the opportunity to resolve this.

    £2000 is no small amount of money and I was worried that you were up to no good.
     

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