32red Payment Processing

[mn001]

I would also like to hear the real reason.

E-wallets could easily be set up to be automatically sent within seconds like many other casinos.

 

[varverooo]

I will reduce my deposits at 32red, and I will not deposit Fridays any more, even in the morning. I deposit only using e-wallets, I have not made a single card deposit. Players like me dont seem to matter that much.

 

[Slotster!]

Because it's a big step in the wrong direction from one of the biggest online casino.

I, for one, would like to hear the real reason behind it. I'd hate to believe that they do this because there's a high % of reversals on cards while ewallet users couldn't do it.

Don't forget that ewallet users are the only ones affected by this enhancement.

But you can flush a withdrawal whenever you like!?!

Other than the 'It's nice to be paid as quickly as possible" argument (which I agree with - I really do - I think it should ALWAYS be automated and immediate like it used to be @ Intercasino and Blue Square) - I still don't get the big issue.

Withdraw, Flush. Go shopping Monday morning.

You'll still get paid quickly in the week.

I dunno. Like I say, quicker is always better but, in the grand scheme of things - I can't get worked up about it.

Unless I'm missing something.

 

[mn001]

Many of us who use moneybookers use it because it's fast and like cash.

Right now I can go to for example willhill, put £1000 on red on roulette, win and have £2000. Cashout hits my moneybookers in ~5 seconds. I go outside my door and there is the ATM and I can cash it all out. Just like a real land based casino.

Casino is 99% about the fast money for me.

32red still have good support, promos and many other things. But this change is really really bad for me and many other players.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

But you can flush a withdrawal whenever you like!?!

Other than the 'It's nice to be paid as quickly as possible" argument (which I agree with - I really do - I think it should ALWAYS be automated and immediate like it used to be @ Intercasino and Blue Square) - I still don't get the big issue.

Withdraw, Flush. Go shopping Monday morning.

You'll still get paid quickly in the week.

I dunno. Like I say, quicker is always better but, in the grand scheme of things - I can't get worked up about it.

Unless I'm missing something.

Flushing isn't the same as getting paid, there is absolutely no way a player can look at this and see anything other than a backward step from a casino that many of us held to higher standards than much of the industry, and saw as being a standard bearer that other casinos needed to aspire to.

I've lost count of the number of times I've posted 'MG = 32Red', that was how good they were.

Now they're just another MG casino that doesn't pay on weekends, albeit with good CS, but they still don't pay on weekends.

 

[Slotster!]

Cashout hits my moneybookers in ~5 seconds. I go outside my door and there is the ATM and I can cash it all out. Just like a real land based casino.

Casino is 99% about the fast money for me.

Wow - I didn't realise there was still outfits out there that did the IMMEDIATE Moneybookers thing. Fair play, your example makes perfect sense. I guess if you hit it big Saturday night you might want to go and blow the cash, which in your example @ William Hill - you could. Yep. Get it.

I guess it's one thing to take into consideration when viewing the overall experience at an online casino.

I don't ever need the money I've won from gambling immediately - so I think that's where I'm not seeing the big issue/being that fussed. But I get it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It is a clear indication that as far as the industry are concerned, they dislike eWallets for some reason. It's not about preferential treatment, it's about a fear that even though it hasn't happened yet, a move by players from cards to eWallets is something to fear in industry circles.

There have been numerous threads about "Neteller hating" casino terms, yet eWallets have been designed specifically for this industry, by people in this industry, to offer the best possible service to customers.

If the change is down to a new "dynamic" ability, how come there is absolutely nothing "dynamic" when it comes to being able to operate separate process streams, and "dynamically" allocate appropriate reversal periods not just based on banking hours, but chosen withdrawal method too. Surely it was HARDER before to process eWallet withdrawals outside of banking hours without a dynamic system, yet this was done.

Other pressures may move players away from cards and towards eWallets instead, and although such players will not see any changes to the speed of withdrawals, they will escape the trend now evident among banks of making gambling transactions more difficult.

We have already had a player post that they were denied a loan because the bank found a transaction for 32Red on their statement in the recent past, and credit scored them negatively because of it. This is the kind of thing that is going to push players away from cards and towards eWallets. Another trend by banks is discouraging the use of credit cards for gambling by adding extra fees and charges beyond those that apply to normal "purchases".

I use a mix of cards and Neteller, and I have experienced the constant irritation of my bank blocking my debit card attempts to deposit at casinos. Only ONE bank (Cahoot) seems trouble free when it comes to depositing at casinos via debit card, but this is an old legacy account that is no longer available to new customers since Santander took over. However, it does suggest that a Santander debit card might be relatively trouble free. The most troublesome of all in my experience has been First Direct.

32Red may end up finding itself in the opposite position of having to offer preferential treatment to debit card customers to keep them preferring that method.

I was surprised that the number using cards was as high as 90%. I would have expected a much higher percentage of eWallet users, however, eWallets do not advertise on TV, but casinos and banks do, so this may be why new players start out with cards, and don't realise that there might be a better option.

This will also affect their rating, but of more concern should be a worry that other operators might seize this opportunity to steal a march on 32Red, an operation that so far has been hard to beat.


There may also be a backlash this weekend from the 10% who have not heard about this change, and are checking their eWallet account fully expecting their Friday withdrawal to be there Saturday as usual.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Wow - I didn't realise there was still outfits out there that did the IMMEDIATE Moneybookers thing. Fair play, your example makes perfect sense. I guess if you hit it big Saturday night you might want to go and blow the cash, which in your example @ William Hill - you could. Yep. Get it.

I guess it's one thing to take into consideration when viewing the overall experience at an online casino.

I've covered this before and even started a thread about it, and Balth did recently too.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...-wont-pay-the-same-day-mini-rant-alert.57730/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pending-withdrawals-everyone-loses.50840/

It's not about flushing being there as an option, it's about your money being 'tied up in the system' with no way of getting it out for several days. For e-wallet players who are used to getting their cash in hours if not minutes, 32Red have basically just bumped themselves right down the list of places to play at, if at all.

For example if I feel like playing at 3Dice tonight, I can do so, and if I make a withdrawal before I go to bed, I know it'll be in my Neteller account by the morning and available for me to play elsewhere if I want to do so. If I do the same at 32Red it'll be stuck there until next Monday, and if I want to play anywhere else in the meantime I'll need to deposit again, which is especially onerous for me because I'll have to pay another 1.75% to Neteller to fund my account.

 

[bsilva028]

what bad news
100% of my deposites are by e-wallets
meaning that in the weekends will have to wait all the weekend to cashout?
that is a turning from a "top casino" to became a "regular casino"

time to change for me, weekends deposits only in casinos that also pay out at the weekends.
big disapointment now with 32red

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We have already had a player post that they were denied a loan because the bank found a transaction for 32Red on their statement in the recent past, and credit scored them negatively because of it. This is the kind of thing that is going to push players away from cards and towards eWallets. Another trend by banks is discouraging the use of credit cards for gambling by adding extra fees and charges beyond those that apply to normal "purchases".

Before I moved to Neteller I used a wide variety of cards to deposit with (before finally settling on a single gaming card, and then just using that card to fund my Neteller account), and there was a very clear correlation between the cards I was using regularly for gambling and getting letters from the companies telling me that as part of their responsible lending policy blah blah activity on your account etc etc 'we are increasing your APR' and/or 'we are reducing your credit limit'.

Online gambling is seen as a HIGH RISK ACTIVITY by both banks and credit card companies, we got a secured loan last year to get a load of work done on the house and the finance house went through EVERYTHING, bank statements, credit card statements, incomings and outogings, the whole works. Fortunately they only wanted the last three months worth and they didn't seem to notice and/or flag up the regular Neteller deposits from one of my credit cards (which I always maintain a zero balance on anyway so maybe that was the reason). I dread to think what would have happened if we'd have had a load of casino transactions on there.

Also, there was a cash deposit of £500 into our current account and they specifically asked where that money had come from (I said it was from irregular self employment, which is sort of true ), which was actually a Neteller withdrawal that I had paid into the current account.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to have regular gambling activity on your mainstream credit and debit cards, it will be raising your risk profile and god help you if you need to get any sort of major credit facility with that sort of activity all over your cards and accounts - which is why I've gone 100% Neteller.

 

[Cogge]

It is a clear indication that as far as the industry are concerned, they dislike eWallets for some reason. It's not about preferential treatment, it's about a fear that even though it hasn't happened yet, a move by players from cards to eWallets is something to fear in industry circles.

That "some reason" is usually the fact that E-wallets tend to charge twice as much for deposits compared to CC processors. Could be related

 

[Nifty29]

Before I moved to Neteller I used a wide variety of cards to deposit with (before finally settling on a single gaming card, and then just using that card to fund my Neteller account), and there was a very clear correlation between the cards I was using regularly for gambling and getting letters from the companies telling me that as part of their responsible lending policy blah blah activity on your account etc etc 'we are increasing your APR' and/or 'we are reducing your credit limit'.

Online gambling is seen as a HIGH RISK ACTIVITY by both banks and credit card companies, we got a secured loan last year to get a load of work done on the house and the finance house went through EVERYTHING, bank statements, credit card statements, incomings and outogings, the whole works. Fortunately they only wanted the last three months worth and they didn't seem to notice and/or flag up the regular Neteller deposits from one of my credit cards (which I always maintain a zero balance on anyway so maybe that was the reason). I dread to think what would have happened if we'd have had a load of casino transactions on there.

Also, there was a cash deposit of £500 into our current account and they specifically asked where that money had come from (I said it was from irregular self employment, which is sort of true ), which was actually a Neteller withdrawal that I had paid into the current account.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to have regular gambling activity on your mainstream credit and debit cards, it will be raising your risk profile and god help you if you need to get any sort of major credit facility with that sort of activity all over your cards and accounts - which is why I've gone 100% Neteller.

That "some reason" is usually the fact that E-wallets tend to charge twice as much for deposits than CC processors. Could be related

The bit about 32Red being concerned about players suddenly waking up one morning and deciding to use ewallets instead of credit cards because they will get paid on the weekends.....well just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Surely....these players would already have done so? It's been this way for years and years years, and YET they have 90% of their customers using cards right now. Where is the impending doom?

I have yet to see anywhere on these forums where a 32Red player has complained about not receiving card withdrawals on a weekend. So, why the need to "make the system fairer"?

I also have to ask....what about the almost 3 days of transactions that will have piled up from Fri to Mon? I cannot see everyone being paid on Monday morning, unless it is going to be 100% automated (would be surprised if every transaction went through unchecked).

I am really sad to say this, but it is the FIRST time EVER I have seen anyone from 32Red use SPIN in an attempt to dress up what is a reduction in service for 10% of their players. What used to set them apart from other MGS groups was great customer service, fair bonuses, and weekend payouts. Now, we are left with only two, and the one now missing was the big differentiator IMO.

The browser-based operators like Bet-at, GUTS, etc are now going to take the lead position in regards to payouts. I've always believed that if you are going to take bets 7 days a week, you should pay out 7 days a week....this is one area that CAN be compared to land based casinos....imagine being told on Sat night when you want a slot machine hand payout that you have to bring it back on Monday morning for your money .

I don't think I am being cynical when I say that it is most certainly a money-saving measure, and is absolutely NOT an improvement or enhancement of any kind. As Bryan often says to systems peddlers etc...."We ain't stupid here at CM".

32Red would have garnered more respect (from me at least) if they just said it "as it is" and not dressed it up as something players want. I always thought they were beyond that, and that weekend payouts were a way for 32Red to "go the extra mile" for customers, even if there was a cost involved. Looks like the bean counters have finally had their way, and it is sad day...just like every other time the bean counters get their way.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Before I moved to Neteller I used a wide variety of cards to deposit with (before finally settling on a single gaming card, and then just using that card to fund my Neteller account), and there was a very clear correlation between the cards I was using regularly for gambling and getting letters from the companies telling me that as part of their responsible lending policy blah blah activity on your account etc etc 'we are increasing your APR' and/or 'we are reducing your credit limit'.

Online gambling is seen as a HIGH RISK ACTIVITY by both banks and credit card companies, we got a secured loan last year to get a load of work done on the house and the finance house went through EVERYTHING, bank statements, credit card statements, incomings and outogings, the whole works. Fortunately they only wanted the last three months worth and they didn't seem to notice and/or flag up the regular Neteller deposits from one of my credit cards (which I always maintain a zero balance on anyway so maybe that was the reason). I dread to think what would have happened if we'd have had a load of casino transactions on there.

Also, there was a cash deposit of £500 into our current account and they specifically asked where that money had come from (I said it was from irregular self employment, which is sort of true ), which was actually a Neteller withdrawal that I had paid into the current account.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to have regular gambling activity on your mainstream credit and debit cards, it will be raising your risk profile and god help you if you need to get any sort of major credit facility with that sort of activity all over your cards and accounts - which is why I've gone 100% Neteller.

I used my Barclaycard almost exclusively for gambling, and although they kept RAISING my limit, they also raised the interest rate to a whopping 29.9%, something one usually sees on "store" cards and those "starter" cards for people with a poor credit history.

The other cards that I have never used for gambling charge between 17% and 20%.

Barclaycard eventually discouraged gambling transactions by changing the terms such that they attract interest at 29.9% from day 1. Before this, I made quite heavy use of the card for both deposits and withdrawals. Now I have had to switch to 90%+ Neteller and less than 10% Cahoot debit card.

I do make Neteller withdrawals to my bank, but if they ask I just say "I won it", after all, there is nothing illegal about gambling, and they can't tell what type of gambling resulted in the "win". It could have been the National Lottery for all they know, or a bookie via an online account.

That "some reason" is usually the fact that E-wallets tend to charge twice as much for deposits compared to CC processors. Could be related

So, with only 10% of the market, why don't the eWallets compete by lowering costs.

Credit cards seem more expensive still, so much so that some retailers even add 2% to 3% to the price purely because you pay by credit card. It's only the debit cards that are likely to be cheaper for businesses, but even here there have been complaints from some businesses that the banks shave some 4% of turnover from debit cards at the till.

I think it's only 10% because eWallets don't really market to players.

I discovered Neteller because casinos were constantly telling me it was their "preferred deposit option" so I caved in and tried it, and it certainly was better than using cards.

If eWallets feel they are losing out through a lack of promotion through casinos they are likely to run their own campaigns. They already run affiliate schemes along similar lines to the CPA deals one sees from casino affiliate programs.

 

[Jasminebed]

I for one am very disappointed.

I have to agree with Nifty about the "spin".

Your man hours to process the payments will be the same. Does it make a difference what day of the week you have people come in?

Most of my play is outside banking hours, and I suspect that most players in the UK play evenings and weekends as well. If there's not sufficient workload to justify a full shift, maybe once a day on Saturdays and Sundays?

 

[chuchu59]

I never thought it would happen so soon. 32red suggesting that some players are unable to reverse their w/ds because the cashout is already in the system and the new initiative will benefit them. I though only those lowlife casinos resorted to these cheap excuses. What we can hope for is a big improvement in the global economy and that casinos wont need to resort to cheap stunts. Sigh.

 

[rainmaker]

I don't think I am being cynical when I say that it is most certainly a money-saving measure, and is absolutely NOT an improvement or enhancement of any kind. As Bryan often says to systems peddlers etc...."We ain't stupid here at CM".

Yeah, I agree with you.

32Red is still growing revenue-wise according to their latest trading update, but not as much as they used to.

I think this, combined with increased costs - especially related to their Italy expansion is why they now need to reduce costs.

To pay out slower is a way to do so as more players will reverse or refrain from cashing out.

But I guess this is a trend we have seen for a while. Typical Microgaming casinos are paying out slower and slower (pending times, no weekend), while NetEnt, Quickfire based casinos etc often are paying out almost instantly or within a few hours.

It is a bit ironic that these fast paying casinos are offering games from many different suppliers (including Microgaming), while typical old fashioned Microgaming casinos only have games from this one supplier.

I say old fashioned as it is quite old to only offer games from Microgaming these days (which should be a big concern for 32Red and other similar casinos).

 

[incrediblestuff]

Some of are most seasoned posters might be jumping to conclusions here?
Even the ones that sometimes critisize assumptions heavily?
Wink wink nudge nudge..

But in all seriousness:

I don't really think it's 32Red-like to come here disguising cutbacks as enhancement, i am pretty sure they don't underestimate our deductive capabilities..
But i also think they did not expect wild assumptions and a bit too heavy criticism for that matter.

I think we should wait with further such comments untill the good men from 32Red have replied with some elaboration?

That's just my opinion of course, but reflecting on how almost each and every one of us have been treated by them so far, it would seem common courtesy?

 

[Osloking]

I would say 32red is a exclusive MG viper casino for me, i am not fan of flash quickfire at all, if i want to play MG i would go for downloaded one and that is 32red. This only points only one direction and that is to try to survive in massive competitive online casino business.

I guess its hard times for true blood casinos these days where almost all upcoming casinos have multi bulti software providers and very quick withdrawl options. But i want to think 32red maybe have a plan for its game section where they could offer other software, imagine 32red had netent, wms, aristocrat.

 

[Nifty29]

Some of are most seasoned posters might be jumping to conclusions here?
Even the ones that sometimes critisize assumptions heavily?
Wink wink nudge nudge..

But in all seriousness:

I don't really think it's 32Red-like to come here disguising cutbacks as enhancement, i am pretty sure they don't underestimate our deductive capabilities..
But i also think they did not expect wild assumptions and a bit too heavy criticism for that matter.

I think we should wait with further such comments untill the good men from 32Red have replied with some elaboration?

That's just my opinion of course, but reflecting on how almost each and every one of us have been treated by them so far, it would seem common courtesy?

Seriously?

1. Highlight where I said anything not based on fact

2. What's YOUR take on the situation? Or, if you like, what's wrong with mine?

The bottom line is that ewallet players are now losing benefits/level of service. I see no "upside" for ANYONE...except 32Red.

AFAIC Pat has already "elaborated" on the subject. What more should we be "waiting" for exactly?

There is a huge difference between assumptions and assessments based on fact.

 

[incrediblestuff]

32Red would have garnered more respect (from me at least) if they just said it "as it is" and not dressed it up as something players want. I always thought they were beyond that, and that weekend payouts were a way for 32Red to "go the extra mile" for customers, even if there was a cost involved. Looks like the bean counters have finally had their way, and it is sad day...just like every other time the bean counters get their way.

Here you are assuming your take is a fact, but it is not yet proven to be so.

This is my take:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/32red-payment-processing.57890/

I was saying it tongue in cheek, not as a disrespect of your or anyones opinion
The thought had crossed my mind too, as being one of the possible reasons.
But theres a fine line between opinions/seemingly easy deductions and facts.
(read assessments based on facts)

 

[Nifty29]

Here you are assuming your take is a fact, but it is not yet proven to be so.

This is my take:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/32red-payment-processing.57890/

I was saying it tongue in cheek, not as a disrespect of your or anyones opinion
The thought had crossed my mind too, as being one of the possible reasons.
But theres a fine line between opinions/seemingly easy deductions and facts.
(read assessments based on facts)

The ONLY result of these changes is.:

1. No payouts on weekends

2. Less/No accounts staff on weekends = less costs to casino

Unless you can think of some others, then my take is looking a lot more solid than yours right now. I mean, your take is "I don't understand it". Well, I think what Pat said is pretty clear.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I never thought it would happen so soon. 32red suggesting that some players are unable to reverse their w/ds because the cashout is already in the system and the new initiative will benefit them. I though only those lowlife casinos resorted to these cheap excuses. What we can hope for is a big improvement in the global economy and that casinos wont need to resort to cheap stunts. Sigh.

It should be possible to suit both, rather than force the solution for the 90% onto the 10% who don't want it.

The dynamic pending could be used for withdrawals requested via card, so that no player finds that over the weekend they can neither reverse nor access the money to make a deposit. For eWallet users, the problem does not exist, if the money is out of reach for reversal via CS, it's already in their eWallet, and can be accessed over the weekend.

I would take the opposite view that those 90% who use cards should be ENCOURAGED to consider a move to eWallets for a better level of service, as well as separating their gambling from their regular banking. Even with this change, uptake of eWallets is something to be encouraged.

I would expect that players who make significant deposits would also have experienced constant hassle with their use of cards. One other card I tried seemed OK with deposits of £100, but rarely let those of £200 or more through without tripping the phone verification block. If card players only deposit for boni, and are not in Club Rouge, they should never encounter problems as the amount needed is rarely over £100. I suspect that £100 is the trigger point being used by that one bank.

 

[incrediblestuff]

The ONLY result of these changes is.:

1. No payouts on weekends

2. Less/No accounts staff on weekends = less costs to casino

Unless you can think of some others, then my take is looking a lot more solid than yours right now.

That might be, but it's still "a take on" and not yet a proven fact
And i can think of many reasons, but i posted my question before, as i'd rather have it answered by the only one who can really tell.

You know i respect your opinion Nifty, i assume you respect mine too.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That might be, but it's still "a take on" and not yet a proven fact
And i can think of many reasons, but i posted my question before, as i'd rather have it answered by the only one who can really tell.

You know i respect your opinion Nifty, i assume you respect mine too.

But we're not talking about opinions, we're talking about facts.

32Red used to process withdrawals to e-wallets on weekends, now they don't.

Their level of service to the player has deteriorated and they've saved themselves some money and they've tried to dress it up as something it isn't.

These are not opinions.

 

[Nifty29]

That might be, but it's still "a take on" and not yet a proven fact
And i can think of many reasons, but i posted my question before, as i'd rather have it answered by the only one who can really tell.

You know i respect your opinion Nifty, i assume you respect mine too.

Of course.

Except that the things I just posted are facts.