32RED downgrades TAB/SE

[Harry_BKK]

Fair point but that title is too long and the text gets lost on the front page. Let's agree on "32RED downgrading TAB/SE" shall we?

Sure that is OK Max. Thanks

 

[dunover]

In a way it's all semantics, tens of posts saying exactly the same thing. Paul, saying that TAB users shouldn't be gambling if it stops them reversing is frankly ridiculous. TAB is not exclusion, and is clearly labelled as such. There is no assumed reason for a player using it. When you open a bank account, you don't get an unlimited overdraft, do you? There are checks and balances in place to ensure responsible lending. Most of us wouldn't use it, but for the sake of some that would have a mad moment and go spending.

Now TAB could be because you're going on holiday, taking the cat to the vets or cycling your casino play (like I do.) No reason given. As for the UKGC, 32red have scraped and searched for an alternative interpretation to the rules which nearly every other casino read the same way. OK, forget the UKGC rules, they are clearly inadequate and the UKGC is on a (slow) learning curve as regards player protection etc. Let's look at the real underlying statement of intent here from the casino:

Not enough reversals, introduce a pending period of 1-4 days, depending when it's actioned.

So the savvy ones 'flush' - ermmmm.... OK we'll get rid of that before too many become aware of it!

Bugger! We've examined our stats and the crafty bastards are using TAB to circumvent the pending! Yes, yes it's our fault for having such long pending periods, but never mind! What to do? Quick, let's get some clarification...
Excellent! There is a loophole, we can remove the self-set option to absolutely maximize our reversals! We are now at maximum 'reversal efficiency'!

Some people just don't seem to appreciate how contemptuous all this is when aggregated. Wake up!

If your car insurance company wrote you:
9 months ago "Amendment: No courtesy car from now-on if yours in repair."
6 months ago "Amendment to terms: In-car Audio no longer covered."
3 months ago "Amendment: Compulsory excess raised from £200 to £500"

What would you do? Yes, you'd be straight on to that fat opera-singing bastard's Comparison Site to find a different policy provider with the original terms you had when you signed up. There's only so far you can exploit customer inertia - well you'd think!

And why are they getting away with it? Because YOU let them. Simples. (as the equally irritating stripy-faced little sods say).

 

[Harry_BKK]

It might be designed so people take a break for 24 hours so when their wages go in the bank they don't blow the lot.

I was sticking to the facts. I answered the question on whether they should make a complaint or not. everything else is irrelevant.

Anyway im out of this thread as its so long and just repeating itself for no reason and it seems to be same members making the posts about 32RED that do every time a 32RED thread appears yet they never bother so much if its a different casino. If I was cynical id say theres a reason behind it but good job im not cynical.

Is having a big win not like the wages at the end of the month and by Taking-A-Break means they don't blow the lot????

I asked you to stick to the facts regarding this part of your statement: "Until the newer casinos started with the instant payouts it was no big deal to wait several hours." as it was 32RED who introduced fast payments when they were new on the market.

If i was cynical i'd say there are always the same people questioning criticizing threads about 32RED but good job I'm not cynical.

 

[paul7388]

Is having a big win not like the wages at the end of the month and by Taking-A-Break means they don't blow the lot????

I asked you to stick to the facts regarding this part of your statement: "Until the newer casinos started with the instant payouts it was no big deal to wait several hours." as it was 32RED who introduced fast payments when they were new on the market.

If i was cynical i'd say there are always the same people questioning criticizing threads about 32RED but good job I'm not cynical.

I had presumed you had quoted my earlier thread. But anyway instant casinos are ones that pay instant. like you said 32RED used to pay in a couple of hours for most people which isn't instant.

Anyway im not here to get into petty arguments about casinos. Leave that to everyone else.

And yes Dunover you can call this post frankly ridiculous as well. Coming from the person that throws his toys from the pram and closes his accounts at every casino any time a small problem arises. Personally I find that frankly ridiculous but each to their own.

Anyway will leave the usual gang to pat each other on the back and continue as they are.

Have a good evening all

 

[mac72]

Why people think that Taking a break to avoid a reversal of a withdrawal is an abuse of the TAB feature is beyond me? It just goes to show how well 32red's spin machine is working. Perhaps mark from 32red could point out where the UKGC have specified the correct uses for TAB and indeed the ones they count as an "abuse". It is obvious to me from that statement that their reasoning for the removal of the automatic feature was precisely to avoid what they have determined to be "abuse" (affecting the bottom line) when everyone using it was only actually being prudent and using the tool in exactly the manner it should be,which for the avoidance of doubt is "whatever way you the customer wants" because i see no criteria for its use.

 

[dionysus]

I get the title has been changed accordingly....but really, isn't this just about forkable now? We get it - people are unhappy with the changes and have expressed those changes. Some have gone as far as closing their accounts. Neat. Ok....so, what more do you want? I mean, you don't even play there now, you've warned others accordingly. Some have said (repeatedly) 'in conclusion', 'my last post on this'....but then, here we are, still going....expressing the same points over and over here and across multiple threads. If you don't like 32Red's methodology...well, geez, fine, move on.
According to max, they've followed the letter, if not spirit here of their obligations/requirements, and no terms broken.We've beaten the 32Red horse to death, no?

At what point does 'informing the members' become 'i have an agenda and won't rest until everyone sees it my way and/or 32Red changes'?

If it's the UKGCterminology, should that be a its own thread and titled accordingly?
Max asked anyone interested to keep it open.
I think it's fair, seeing as he's drawn and posted conclusions since, it be closed.

If it stays open, so be it.
At the least, I'll have fun tabulating how many 'final posts' I come across.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Finally a post from me which is not jumping to the defence of 32 Red!!!!

I agree with all the points raised regarding SE and RG, I genuinely do

However I do have to ask a question,

When does the point come that we as players have to take some responsibility for our action, yes this has been mentioned but it is getting more and more apparent the moment a player drops a bollock we then see shouts of SE, Account re opened, should I contact 'ABC' etc etc

The risks within gambling are strong, as are the pitfalls of reversing, over spending and so on but the time comes players must at least take a degree of the onus of staying strong and not looking for a scapegoat now that there are more and more opportunities to do so.

Poor analogy maybe but If I spilt my pint every time I was pissed, I would not expect the land lord to replace it every time and would also expect a barring at some point.

Hope this makes sense and a few agree after my tantrum last week!

It is the regulator that has decided that we mere citizens don't need to take this responsibility ourselves. If we didn't have this "nanny state" foisted upon us from an early age, we might learn to take more responsibility for our own actions from an early age. It was the US that started it by gaining a reputation for frivolous lawsuits that were actually successful, such as McDonalds being successfully sued for millions of dollars for failing to point out that their coffee might be hot. This, in part, has driven us towards a level of "extreme nannying" never experienced before. Schools are banning traditional playground games left, right and centre, giving kids little opportunity to explore risk by themselves and learn from their mistakes. We even have the newest craze that says that even innocent games like tag have to be banned as kids might actually make physical contact with each other, which has suddenly gone from being an integral part of childhood play to something SO bad that it has to be avoided at all costs. The argument is that kids might be traumatised by the slightest physical contact, even in a relatively passive game. The nannying arguments used to be restricted to the risk of injury from playing games like conkers, but having banned all such games, they are moving on to other forms of perceived harm.

The end result will be a cocooned generation who EXPECTS the state to protect them from all risk, and if they end up getting hurt, even slightly, because their own actions were not sufficiently micromanaged and policed, they will engage a lawyer and sue.

If instead you had the luxury of growing up in the 1960's and 70's before all this BS got going, you will have learned that for the most part you have to accept that it's your own actions and carelessness that has gotten you the grazed leg or the fractured arm, and it's a lesson learned for the next time you might consider such an activity. Kids used to be told "that'll teach you a lesson" when they came home hurt or covered in mud. Now the parents will be on the phone to a lawyer to ask whether they can sue.

 

[Jono777]

While were on that subject ' This is my last post', one last thing...........

New 'Claim to Fame'

I got 7 thanks on one post so finally I didn't totally upset the 'Apple Cart '

Off to spin n smoke myself stupid, may even throw a beer in the mix

I'm out of this one too now, honest!

Edit: Posted same time, cracking post, good info @VWM, thank you!

 

[dunover]

I get the title has been changed accordingly....but really, isn't this just about forkable now? We get it - people are unhappy with the changes and have expressed those changes. Some have gone as far as closing their accounts. Neat. Ok....so, what more do you want? I mean, you don't even play there now, you've warned others accordingly. Some have said (repeatedly) 'in conclusion', 'my last post on this'....but then, here we are, still going....expressing the same points over and over here and across multiple threads. If you don't like 32Red's methodology...well, geez, fine, move on.According to max, they've followed the letter, if not spirit here of their obligations/requirements, and no terms broken.We've beaten the 32Red horse to death, no?

At what point does 'informing the members' become 'i have an agenda and won't rest until everyone sees it my way and/or 32Red changes'?

If it's the UKGCterminology, should that be a its own thread and titled accordingly?
Max asked anyone interested to keep it open.
I think it's fair, seeing as he's drawn and posted conclusions since, it be closed.

If it stays open, so be it.
At the least, I'll have fun tabulating how many 'final posts' I come across.

With respect I could say the same to you regarding this thread?

If you don't like it, don't visit it. IMO it should stay available so any forthcoming victims of the policies can add their tales of woe, rather than starting, yes! another new thread....

Conclusions are fluid, and if somebody rang up the UKGC also quoting other paragraphs which mention 'immediate' and 'no third party' and asked the same question Harry did, mightn't the answer be different?

Paul, if you call removing your custom from a site due to shortcomings in CS or silly mistakes 'throwing out the toys' sobeit. Some people are willing to soak up the BS, some ain't. I won't as there are plenty of others who will do it right. They get my custom. On a larger scale these actions are what get us better service and improvements in most industries. Except gambling it seems.

P.P.S Vinyl - I had to laugh at your post, bemoaning the 'nanny state' and use of lawyers when in nearly every other post you advise people to seek resolution through the court system. Them bleeding lawyers, eh?

 

[dionysus]

With respect I could say the same to you regarding this thread?

If you don't like it, don't visit it. IMO it should stay available so any forthcoming victims of the policies can add their tales of woe, rather than starting, yes! another new thread....

Conclusions are fluid, and if somebody rang up the UKGC also quoting other paragraphs which mention 'immediate' and 'no third party' and asked the same question Harry did, mightn't the answer be different?

Granted we come from two sides here. We could go back and forth indefinitely.
Either way, I'm requesting Bryan and/or maxd for thread closure or beginning one specific to UKGC - as is my prerogative as is yours to post. - I suppose from there it's up to them. I even stated, if it stays open, so be it. Maybe NEW people will add tales of woe. Something NEW would be novel.

Honestly, I don't see any new 32Red information. If there's new ukgc info, neat. Sounds like a specific thread is good for it. Banging on the 32Red drum..I don't see the point. That drum? It's been banged.

 

[dunover]

Granted we come from two sides here. We could go back and forth indefinitely.
Either way, I'm requesting Bryan and/or maxd for thread closure or beginning one specific to UKGC - as is my prerogative as is yours to post. - I suppose from there it's up to them. I even stated, if it stays open, so be it. Maybe NEW people will add tales of woe. Something NEW would be novel.

Honestly, I don't see any new 32Red information. If there's new ukgc info, neat. Sounds like a specific thread is good for it. Banging on the 32Red drum..I don't see the point. That drum? It's been banged.

And the point of that.......is?

I'm sure many would see the paradoxical element of that statement. No real issues have occurred in ages with reference to casinos' relationship with the UKGC, apart from Bet-at's oversight recently with their caution which didn't affect players at all. So what subject would it inevitably attract? Let me guess - "Are/do you think 32Red are in breach of the wording or spirit of UKGC RG criteria?" And there it would continue. You can't unring a bell Dionysus. Kim Jong-un tries to in Pyongyang, to the detriment of the people and the ridicule of those of us outside.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Granted we come from two sides here. We could go back and forth indefinitely.
Either way, I'm requesting Bryan and/or maxd for thread closure or beginning one specific to UKGC - as is my prerogative as is yours to post. - I suppose from there it's up to them. I even stated, if it stays open, so be it. Maybe NEW people will add tales of woe. Something NEW would be novel.

Honestly, I don't see any new 32Red information. If there's new ukgc info, neat. Sounds like a specific thread is good for it. Banging on the 32Red drum..I don't see the point. That drum? It's been banged.

Why should it be closed?

- we had 3 new pieces of information today alone:
> Max's statement - 32RED complies with UKGC regulation regarding TAB
> Simon's post - TAB was not done by LiveChat and it took 2hrs58mins to receive a response to his emailed TAB request
> Mac72 - actually called the UKGC to get confirmation

Further, I think it has been widely accepted that 32RED complies with UKGC regulation with regards to TAB, albeit that depends on everyone's subjective reading and interpretation of the said paragraph 3.3.4

However, the SE part has not been addressed by 32RED or Mark where the regulation clearly asks for "an automated process using remote communication". 32RED had that and removed it.

Paragraph 3.5.4, item 1 details how the additional step mentioned in paragraph 3.5.3, item 8 can be provided.

(Sorry but repeated posting of the paragraph in question for clarification purposes)

Screenshot from SR code, paragraph 3.5.3, item 8



Screenshot from SR code, paragraph 3.5.4



In all fairness, as there are probably other casino operators that don't provide an automated process for SE we should make a list and send it to the UKGC.

 

[Jhonson90]

Granted we come from two sides here. We could go back and forth indefinitely.
Either way, I'm requesting Bryan and/or maxd for thread closure or beginning one specific to UKGC - as is my prerogative as is yours to post. - I suppose from there it's up to them. I even stated, if it stays open, so be it. Maybe NEW people will add tales of woe. Something NEW would be novel.

Honestly, I don't see any new 32Red information. If there's new ukgc info, neat. Sounds like a specific thread is good for it. Banging on the 32Red drum..I don't see the point. That drum? It's been banged.

No excuse me , with all respect , maybe I did not understand. To you user problems that arise from time to time (which of course are same)
you do not care anything and then, because there are no news from 32Red thread can be closed?
So it would be better to open 50 different threads each time a user has this same problem?

 

[mac72]

I wouldn't like to see it closed yet either.After another lengthy phone call to the UKGC they are to give a written response to me by Friday confirming that their rules allow the casino to implement TAB at a timeframe of their own discretion which as i pointed out to them (and i do believe the penny dropped) makes it a completely useless piece of governance. Nothing to stop any operator who decides not to implement it automatically having a customer with a large withdrawal just deciding to sit on the TAB and hoping they play it off. This should actually be cast iron proof that 32red are indeed working completely within the current criteria which is pure horsemanure (the criteria i mean!)

I also would like an answer from mark on the abuse issue of the TAB for this reason: i used it quite a bit especially at weekends and during the week if i hit big to avoid being tempted to reverse/annoyance at the long withdrawal periods (i actually only discovered it because triliej posted about it) and i promoted its use to many other forum members (harry etc.) for the exact same reason. I don't believe there was anything whatsoever wrong in doing what we were doing but mark's post says different and i'd like clarification on that.Its not good enough just because a certain piece of legislation works against them for a Company to say the use of it is an abuse and i really don't like the inference from 32red that " regular and frequent use of a Take a Break facility could be seen as indicating problematic behaviour; we are required to intervene and interact in such circumstances and that is why it is important that the facility is used as it is intended." I would take that as nearly trying to frighten people from using it as they may end up forced down the SE route. If i was using it consistently and anyone "intervened" i'd simply point out that while i wait on my withdrawal i'm not playing anymore and i don't see that as a problem.

 

[Tirilej]

I also would like an answer from mark on the abuse issue of the TAB for this reason: i used it quite a bit especially at weekends and during the week if i hit big to avoid being tempted to reverse/annoyance at the long withdrawal periods (i actually only discovered it because triliej posted about it) and i promoted its use to many other forum members (harry etc.) for the exact same reason. I don't believe there was anything whatsoever wrong in doing what we were doing but mark's post says different and i'd like clarification on that.Its not good enough just because a certain piece of legislation works against them for a Company to say the use of it is an abuse and i really don't like the inference from 32red that " regular and frequent use of a Take a Break facility could be seen as indicating problematic behaviour; we are required to intervene and interact in such circumstances and that is why it is important that the facility is used as it is intended." I would take that as nearly trying to frighten people from using it as they may end up forced down the SE route. If i was using it consistently and anyone "intervened" i'd simply point out that while i wait on my withdrawal i'm not playing anymore and i don't see that as a problem.

Ouch, it's all my fault

No, but you have some good points in what you're saying there.
How come we thought it was fine to flush a withdrawal without saying people have a lousy self control? That is if the option were there of course.
But if someone are using the TAB function they have a lack of self control? It doesn't add up
I can imagine though that if it's used the same way, then removing the option to flush was to no use. I also think that if it hadn't been spread in this forum then maybe the automated TAB function still would be there. That's just me speculating but what do I know

I admit that I sometimes don't really know what I'm thinking (I'm a woman, we're allowed to be like that).
I've always worked for the weakest, and I still do, but I also demand that people take responsibility for their own actions.

So no flushing mean that if you can't control yourself then don't play there. If you can't wait for the TAB function you asked for to set in, then damn you have a lousy self control and should clearly only play where there are instant cashouts or instant TAB functions. Your choice.
Just stop blaming the casino. No more witchhunt.


When it comes to those some call ''victims'', I call them something else in silence, please all of you do a PAB, complain. How else will we know the truth. We've only heard one side of those issues and I don't judge anyone until I know the truth wether it's a player-member or a casino-member.
That was my final post too. My first final I think

 

[mac72]

Ouch, it's all my fault

No, but you have some good points in what you're saying there.
How come we thought it was fine to flush a withdrawal without saying people have a lousy self control? That is if the option were there of course.
But if someone are using the TAB function they have a lack of self control? It doesn't add up
I can imagine though that if it's used the same way, then removing the option to flush was to no use. I also think that if it hadn't been spread in this forum then maybe the automated TAB function still would be there. That's just me speculating but what do I know

I admit that I sometimes don't really know what I'm thinking (I'm a woman, we're allowed to be like that).
I've always worked for the weakest, and I still do, but I also demand that people take responsibility for their own actions.

So no flushing mean that if you can't control yourself then don't play there. If you can't wait for the TAB function you asked for to set in, then damn you have a lousy self control and should clearly only play where there are instant cashouts or instant TAB functions. Your choice.
Just stop blaming the casino. No more witchhunt.


When it comes to those some call ''victims'', I call them something else in silence, please all of you do a PAB, complain. How else will we know the truth. We've only heard one side of those issues and I don't judge anyone until I know the truth wether it's a player-member or a casino-member.
That was my final post too. My first final I think

There is absolutely nothing to PAB about here Sarah, it wouldn't stand a chance no rules have been broken by the Casino. And sure if you can't wait for TAB to kick in you should play elsewhere. I for one will continue to play at 32red from time to time and will make sure to TAB on every withdrawal unless someone can show me what i am doing wrong.
I'm not sure on the final part of your post re one side of those issues, i'm not quite sure what you mean?

The scenario i put to the UKGC today was simply "MR X wins big £50k at noon on saturday ,withdraws and wanting to protect his funds (no issue with gambling ) he decides to TAB for a week and sends in email to XXX casino to do so.He goes out partying with his mates buys drinks all round and returns at 3am sunday morning hardly fit to stand and finds he can still access his account and blows the lot.On waking sunday at noon he has some form of bad feeling in his stomach about what happened logs into his casino account and sees no withdrawal and a £0 balance. 2hrs later they find him in the garage swinging from a rope.
Now you can say whatever you like about Mr X's behaviour here, i actually don't think he has done much wrong he sought the protection available and then went to celebrate,perhaps if that protection had not been offered he would have sat sober in the house all weekend and sweated the withdrawal.He wasn't a reader of this forum so expected once his TAB request went in his account would be locked in a few hours if not minutes.
The Casino has done nothing legally (you decide ethically) wrong they had all the time in the world to action the TAB.
However the UKGC obviously identified this area as a problem and put legislation in to cover it.BUT that legislation was completely inadequate and in my opinion as written it borders on negligent and if a scenario like this occured and MR X's wife saw that he had tried to use RG tools that were not implemented in a timely fashion due to the negligence of the UKGC well i think there would certainly be a change in CEO of that organisation as well as the potential for a law suit/public inquiry.
If the UKGC didn't exist and there were no RG tools we wouldn't be having this debate but they do and if they exist they have to be effective.They don't need to do it all at once (overworked!!!) but they do need to do what they can RIGHT, a bad job is no job at all.

 

[Nate]

So no flushing mean that if you can't control yourself then don't play there.

I honestly still don't get why we are shifting the blame to responsibility and lack of self control. If this was so easy to do, then why has 32Red opted to take advantage of this? Its clearly a HUGE problem, to the extent that it is hurting their bottom line and to the extent that they are removing every little avenue that someone can use to put some sort of control in place.

My Example:

So we have a serial reverser - He tries to exercise control by saying ok, I had enough, I've doubled my deposit, let me flush my withdraw (Casino Removes Flush Option)

Ok, I might reverse this because of the pending period - Let me exercise control and take a little break until i get my funds (Casino removes TAB function)

Ok, I still might reverse so let me rather contact live help and ask them to lock my account (Casino hides live help somewhere)

Ok, I finally found Live help let me rather request my account to be closed (Casino says they can't and management will contact you within 72 hours)

Ok, crikey, ummm let me try to email them and ask them to manually add me to the 'vacation; list (No response from support in 3 hours)

Ok, im about to reverse this... Let me rather self exclude, im really trying here... (Casino asks you to print, sign, scan and email a document back to them all while you were playing on your tablet)

Ok... F*ck this, I can't take it - I've TRIED to show self control, but been blocked... withdrawal reversed and lost (Casino 1 - Player 0)

So to end my stupid example, yes, they should not play there if they don't like it, but this casino has thousands of active players and every day someone who is not aware of these critical changes falls victim to the trap they so cunningly planted. Their actions are inexcusable really and anyone who defends it or tries to plant it on the player fails us dismally as a community.

Nate

 

[nutnut]

Most shocking thing in this thread is guy who loses 15k in 2hrs, this makes me so angry, and not at 32red. But no one taking self responseability. 32red is being used as a scapegoat in that aspect, all blame falls to player.

 

[Tirilej]

There is absolutely nothing to PAB about here Sarah, it wouldn't stand a chance no rules have been broken by the Casino. And sure if you can't wait for TAB to kick in you should play elsewhere. I for one will continue to play at 32red from time to time and will make sure to TAB on every withdrawal unless someone can show me what i am doing wrong.
I'm not sure on the final part of your post re one side of those issues, i'm not quite sure what you mean?

The scenario i put to the UKGC today was simply "MR X wins big £50k at noon on saturday ,withdraws and wanting to protect his funds (no issue with gambling ) he decides to TAB for a week and sends in email to XXX casino to do so.He goes out partying with his mates buys drinks all round and returns at 3am sunday morning hardly fit to stand and finds he can still access his account and blows the lot.On waking sunday at noon he has some form of bad feeling in his stomach about what happened logs into his casino account and sees no withdrawal and a £0 balance. 2hrs later they find him in the garage swinging from a rope.
Now you can say whatever you like about Mr X's behaviour here, i actually don't think he has done much wrong he sought the protection available and then went to celebrate,perhaps if that protection had not been offered he would have sat sober in the house all weekend and sweated the withdrawal.He wasn't a reader of this forum so expected once his TAB request went in his account would be locked in a few hours if not minutes.
The Casino has done nothing legally (you decide ethically) wrong they had all the time in the world to action the TAB.
However the UKGC obviously identified this area as a problem and put legislation in to cover it.BUT that legislation was completely inadequate and in my opinion as written it borders on negligent and if a scenario like this occured and MR X's wife saw that he had tried to use RG tools that were not implemented in a timely fashion due to the negligence of the UKGC well i think there would certainly be a change in CEO of that organisation as well as the potential for a law suit/public inquiry.
If the UKGC didn't exist and there were no RG tools we wouldn't be having this debate but they do and if they exist they have to be effective.They don't need to do it all at once (overworked!!!) but they do need to do what they can RIGHT, a bad job is no job at all.

There went my final post but need to respond.
The only time I know was what Mark stated that there had been one request for a break and that had been done after 19 minutes.
I haven't heard about any other. Just one guy who claimed he had asked for it, but later he said they were playing with words. They apparently didn't understand what he wanted, or he had asked for something else. I don't know and noone of us does. That's why I wanted him to PAB, just to make it clear what happened.
It's so easy to believe what a player say but it's rare that we get to hear the whole truth.

I never judge anyone but I don't believe everything they say. Sometimes I can believe the casino more because they are just doing their jobs, while a player maybe have lost and are angry. Like in a bar I believe the bartender more than the drunk person.

It's also important here to treat even the casinos and reps with respect. What would this place be without them? Think about that for a moment.
Maybe 32Red is bigger now, but they are still here. They are still dealing with issues. It's still a give and take relationship. It would be good if we could keep that and keep them here.


@Nate
I agree, and I've stated that so many times. You have no idea how much I fought with them to allow people to flush. It didn't help, nothing we have said helped.
I accepted and moved on. I still don't like it. Just so you know and they know definately

 

[Nate]

Most shocking thing in this thread is guy who loses 15k in 2hrs, this makes me so angry, and not at 32red. But no one taking self responseability. 32red is being used as a scapegoat in that aspect, all blame falls to player.

Absolutely the players fault - BUT if you remove every single avenue that the player has to AID him in making sure he does not play, then we have a different kettle of fish.

Nate

 

[Mouche12]

Nothing wrong with Tirilej's analysis:

But if someone are using the TAB function they have a lack of self control? It doesn't add up
I can imagine though that if it's used the same way, then removing the option to flush was to no use. I also think that if it hadn't been spread in this forum then maybe the automated TAB function still would be there. That's just me speculating but what do I know

.

So, IF the flushing option had still been there, (much) fewer people would have used the TAB function, which I think is what 32Red found out, hence their decision to remove the automatic TAB (why else would they have done it?). All in all, it is certainly not a 'player friendly move', even when it's still in compliance with TAB regulation - and I also agree with the above statement that in that case the rules should be adapted to provide more protection to the players.

 

[Jono777]

Most shocking thing in this thread is guy who loses 15k in 2hrs, this makes me so angry, and not at 32red. But no one taking self responseability. 32red is being used as a scapegoat in that aspect, all blame falls to player.

Couldn't agree more!

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/32red-downgrades-tab-se.72598/

Also been having a little think and I really think UKGC went 'live' long before their house was in order and now there is a huge mess left to clean up, most of which will also affect players and forum regulars over and over again, frustrating doesn't even come close!

Out of this thread, Promise this time!

Good Luck all!

 

[nutnut]

Absolutely the players fault - BUT if you remove every single avenue that the player has to AID him in making sure he does not play, then we have a different kettle of fish.

Nate

It's more fact hey say you reverse it lose 1k, 2k or even 5k of it, logic kicks in ok i keep the 10k and make a double effort to close my account, but to lose all 15k.........just wow.

Even if 32red, did close his account with that little restraint he would have went and deposited the 15k again elsewhere. It's pissing in the wind for players like that sadly, they need banning from everywhere they're a danger to themselves.

 

[Matti]

This is my resume of the original post.

The OP found out that 32Red had changed some routines regarding TAB(TakeABreak) and SE(Self Exclusion). The changes have been implemented so that the casino can earn more money because they probably need to, since the POC(PointOfConsumption) tax in the UK is eating to hard on their profit. For that reason they felt they needed to adjust some part of their business plan and those changes was “player unfriendly”, and be a little bit more like the big players in the market space like William Hill, Coral etc.

Since they build their business from the other end, being much more player friendly than the big players, I’m sure this wasn’t an easy decision to make for 32R. However we must remember that even after these changes they are still better than most. The thing is for 32R “that the higher they are the harder they fall”.

I believe that the mistake made by 32Red is the way the communicated this, and other changes.

They are still a very good and trustworthy casino and I see no reason to close my account.

 

[Tirilej]

This is my resume of the original post.

The OP found out that 32Red had changed some routines regarding TAB(TakeABreak) and SE(Self Exclusion). The changes have been implemented so that the casino can earn more money because they probably need to, since the POC(PointOfConsumption) tax in the UK is eating to hard on their profit. For that reason they felt they needed to adjust some part of their business plan and those changes was “player unfriendly”, and be a little bit more like the big players in the market space like William Hill, Coral etc.

Since they build their business from the other end, being much more player friendly than the big players, I’m sure this wasn’t an easy decision to make for 32R. However we must remember that even after these changes they are still better than most. The thing is for 32R “that the higher they are the harder they fall”.

I believe that the mistake made by 32Red is the way the communicated this, and other changes.

They are still a very good and trustworthy casino and I see no reason to close my account.

:notworthy

How easy it could be said. Here we have had a discussion for 33 pages.

Don't show up so late the next time please