32RED downgrades TAB/SE

[Harry_BKK]

Your last point is correct, but again this has nothing to do with 32red, lets make it clear the casino industry is pure filth, they all operate to take your money my money and every last penny that exists from our accounts. Some might do it with a smile and good customer service but videoslots, 32red or ANY casino all have same morals deep down.

Absolutely agree.

For casino operators RG is an evil the Gambling Commissions or other regulatory bodies forced onto them, and that evil has become bigger in the past years since more regulation has been put in place for online gaming.

However, e.g. Videoslots leaves the player in complete control (see my post #132). Everything can be activated by the player at any time without any interaction with the casino support whatsoever. That means the RG features are 100% controlled by the player and that is how it should be.

This is what 32RED had as well and decided to remove/degrade. That is the main point of this thread.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Sorry Harry if you phone them explain the situation then they will close account . I can assure you if I phoned them up and told them I had an addiction and they had to close my account right there and then as I was going to spend every penny I had and couldn't stop themselves they would close it.

They would have no choice but to do it. Maybe they would say you still needed to complete a self exclusion form but they would apply TAB on the spot for 6 weeks if you asked which gives plenty time to SE officially.

Tells you in their terms to phone and get TAB right away.

Should you wish to suspend your account(s) under the Take a Break option call us on Freephone 0800 018 3904 (+44 (0)203 589 4560 from outside the UK) or, if you prefer, email responsiblegaming@32red.com with your request. We will need to know your username and the length of Take a Break required (24 hours, 48 hours, 1, 2, 3 or 4 weeks, up to the maximum of 6 weeks only).

Understand your point and probably the TAB will be done as a temporary measure. However, it still means the account is locked for a max. 6 weeks after which it will be opened automatically again. Whether the addicted gambler will return that completed form later is rather not very sure.

It just not understandable why 32RED does not allow the player to have full control over those RG measures.

Should a player read only the section for SE it looks like the screenshot below and it does not mention that it can be done instantly:

 

[paul7388]

But Harry that's what we mean by the addict has to take responsibility for their actions.

If they are in that much a mess 6 weeks is more than enough time to make sure they can no longer use the site. If they cant take necessary actions to help themselves within 6 weeks then sorry ive no sympathy. That shows they are not ready to help themselves and SEs will only paper over the cracks and they will gamble somewhere.

Also this thread was also about how 32RED had took away TAB button and now you had to wait maybe hours before taking a break and especially at easter weekend with longer pending it was so irresponsible.

Sorry anyone that really needed to TAB would have read all the terms to find out how. Again if they couldn't be bothered phoning then that's their fault. Maybe no instant button but a short phone calls not that much hassle. If they cant do it then sorry that's their fault.

But like I said TAB is only minutes away for anyone that really needs it. So I really think these near 40 pages are over the top. Yes hey shouldn't have removed the button from webpage but theres still a near instant solution. It again comes down to gamblers taking responsibility for their own actions.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If the UKGC decided that we were all adults and should police our own behaviour, then they would have issued no regulations about RG at all. However, the government has decided that we need to be "nannied" by the state, and that the UKGC must ensure that there are regulations requiring operators to implement the specified level of "nannying". It's not for operators to pick and choose which of these regulations to apply, nor state how players should and should not use the RG facilities.

If a player feels that they need the TAB facility to help them over the weekend to prevent them from reversing their withdrawal, then it's not for the operator to say this is an incorrect use of the facility where it is the ONLY facility provided that can achieve the required aim.

If casinos feel that regular use of TAB to bolster will power over a long weekend is not correct usage, then they should provide an alternative facility specific to this purpose, like a "flush button", or even a lock on the withdrawal alone so that it cannot be reversed, but leaving the account open in other respects. Certainly, if they feel that over use of the formal TAB will force them to unnecessarily review players for "problem gambling", then an alternative facility will be good for them as it will get them out of this regulatory hole because TAB will no longer be getting used for this, the bespoke facility will instead.

If it turns out that there is a sound reason for repeated use of TAB to be related to the onset of problem gambling, then by removing the facility rather than monitoring usage, the regulations are being circumvented through the removal of a data source that would otherwise provide input that would force accounts to be reviewed for possible intervention.

Just because EveryMatrix don't offer RG measures from within the software, it doesn't mean that the UKGC approve this as a good enough means of implementing the RG measures. It could be that those casinos that drag their feet over implementation will end up with a nasty shock from the UKGC, such as a sanction being applied, which will generate adverse PR for the operator.

 

[Jasminebed]

I have so much I wish to say, and so many I multi-quoted, I can't address them all in a reasonable manner.

I no longer have the stats at hand, but a number of years back I asked a government body about problem gamblers, and I'm doing the best to my recollection. About 2% of gamblers, but 20% of gambling revenues derive from them.

The UKGC decided certain measures should be put in place should gamblers choose to use them.

I don't see that as a bad thing.

If you are outside the UKGC purview, you may not be included.

Gambling addicts, and addicts in general have lost control. And for the Take a Break facilities, there's a great option for those that walk the line. Sometimes we need a little off time to regain control.

I'm rather ashamed of how much I've lost since winning a lot of money, amounts inconceivable six months ago. Have did well at 32Red, but not so much at other providers.

I would hope that if I asked for help it was instant or near instant.

One of my real life friends, her mom gambles online weekly, for the past 8 or so years. Has never yet made a withdrawal, and has had five figure sums more than once.

But she still spends less than when she gambled B&M more regularly.

It's a bit of derail, but I had to go ask 32Red to credit a very small bonus today that should have been automatic. It should have been bonus funds AFAIK, but they gave me cash. I'm off to play that, i have no doubts that should I win I will be paid, worse case scenario, I'd have to complete wagering I expected.

I do think we hold 32Red to a higher standard, because they have shown a higher standard.

 

[Harry_BKK]

But Harry that's what we mean by the addict has to take responsibility for their actions.

If they are in that much a mess 6 weeks is more than enough time to make sure they can no longer use the site. If they cant take necessary actions to help themselves within 6 weeks then sorry ive no sympathy. That shows they are not ready to help themselves and SEs will only paper over the cracks and they will gamble somewhere.

Also this thread was also about how 32RED had took away TAB button and now you had to wait maybe hours before taking a break and especially at easter weekend with longer pending it was so irresponsible.

Sorry anyone that really needed to TAB would have read all the terms to find out how. Again if they couldn't be bothered phoning then that's their fault. Maybe no instant button but a short phone calls not that much hassle. If they cant do it then sorry that's their fault.

But like I said TAB is only minutes away for anyone that really needs it. So I really think these near 40 pages are over the top. Yes hey shouldn't have removed the button from webpage but theres still a near instant solution. It again comes down to gamblers taking responsibility for their own actions.

Paul i can only recommend to you as well to visit a GA meeting to hear how the road down to hell is littered with moments where help at the right time would have avoided the ultimate disaster.

I should maybe reveal at this moment in time that i did once a few years voluntary work for an organization that offered Addiction Support, be it drugs, alcohol, gambling or any other form of addiction. I was assigned to the Gambling section and have first hand experienced how bad it can become, hence my remark in an earlier post that i have seen the ugly, the bad and the really ugly bad. Probably prevented me from becoming a "problem gambler" myself.

One example:

- Husband is heavily addicted and regularly blows the paycheck (gamblers always find ways to get the money into their hands on pay day)
- Wive has 2 jobs to keep the family somehow afloat and the 2 kids fed, dressed and in school
- Obviously there will be plenty of arguments between the two
- At some point the husband has a bright moment (maybe at the point where the bank sends them the eviction order as the mortgage was not paid in 6 months) and agrees to SE at all casinos he has registered with and also for the wife to stand next to him to see him doing it.
- He starts, casino 1, casino 2, casino 3 etc etc - all done online and instantly the moment he is pressing that button
- Arrives at 32RED/EM: "oh bummer, can't do it online", sees the phone number and calls up.
- SE is not offered then and there on the phone and now he relies on the CS Agent to recommend him a TAB as a temporary measure, to make sure the account is blocked until he returns the form
- Let's say the CS agent does that and TAB's the account for 48hrs, which should be sufficient to sign and return the SE form
- Husband also hands over bank cards to the wife and at the bank he agrees that the wife will have the control over the joint account.
- They also walk into every B+M shop in the area and SE him, making sure he can't gamble any further at the bookies either
- Form from 32RED/EM arrives at some point via email, by this time the wife has left the PC and does housework
- Later she asks him whether he has returned the form, he says yes but hasn't.
- 48hrs later the 32RED/EM account is activated again as the TAB has expired
- Another day later is pay day and he gets his hands somehow on the pay check and blows it again at the only account which is still open - 32RED/EM
- Family loses the house and has to move out
- Now they are in real trouble as it will cost a hell lot of money to find a rental place, pay for the fees to the bank for selling the house etc etc.

You think this has not happened. I can assure you it has 1000's of times, be it as above or similar. I heard and seen plenty of cases in 6 years I did my voluntary work for that organization.

Now you will say: Oh he can open another account with a different casino. Sure he could, but with no bank cards and the 32RED/EM account readily available, we all know where he will go first. Would 32RED/EM allow instant SE it would take longer to register at a new place, get somehow cash into the casino account, maybe just enough time until the wife comes home from work to stop him from blowing that last cash which proves then to be the final nail in the coffin.

I have also dealt with plenty casino operators, well at that time it was more B&M than online operators but NOT A SINGLE ONE did really care a "iota" whether a player would blow the last penny from his pocket. Only rising or rather exploding numbers of problem gamblers called the governments on the plan to introduce regulation in regards to RG. 14 YEARS it has taken to finally have one GC putting a paragraph in place that the SE has to be offered by "automated process via remote communication" putting the first time ever the PLAYER IN DIRECT CONTROL...14 years Paul. Can you imagine how much casino operators resisted that introduction??? Technically it could have been done 14 years ago, no problem.

The soon it was in place, casino operators looked for loopholes to circumvent it and as it seems 32RED has found that loophole as otherwise they would not have removed the online self-set SE button to avoid being in breach of the UKGC regulation.

When I saw the first time the online TAB/SE features i nearly jumped for joy, finally seeing that the player can be 100% in control of his casino account. In my view an important part to prevent a borderline case even becoming a "problem gambler". Understandably, i was so totally disappointed to see 32RED removing it again.

Well, all our discussions here will be all hot air to them, nothing more, nothing less. However, i look forward to 2017 when the UKGC will introduce the central RG database where 1 SE will exclude you from every online casino. I sincerely hope it will get done as that is, with the ever growing number of online casinos, the only real option to help a problem gambler.

 

[dionysus]

- Husband is heavily addicted and regularly blows the paycheck (gamblers always find ways to get the money into their hands on pay day)
- Wive has 2 jobs to keep the family somehow afloat and the 2 kids fed, dressed and in school
- Obviously there will be plenty of arguments between the two
- At some point the husband has a bright moment (maybe at the point where the bank sends them the eviction order as the mortgage was not paid in 6 months) and agrees to SE at all casinos he has registered with and also for the wife to stand next to him to see him doing it.
- He starts, casino 1, casino 2, casino 3 etc etc - all done online and instantly the moment he is pressing that button
- Arrives at 32RED: "oh bummer, can't do it online", sees the phone number and calls up.
- SE is not offered then and there on the phone and now he relies on the CS Agent to recommend him a TAB as a temporary measure, to make sure the account is blocked until he returns the form
- Let's say the CS agent does that and TAB's the account for 48hrs, which should be sufficient to sign and return the SE form
- Husband also hands over bank cards to the wife and at the bank he agrees that the wife will have the control over the joint account.
- They also walk into every B+M shop in the area and SE him, making sure he can't gamble any further at the bookies either
- Form from 32RED arrives at some point via email, by this time the wife has left the PC and does housework
- Later she asks him whether he has returned the form, he says yes but hasn't.
- 48hrs later the 32RED account is activated again as the TAB has expired
- Another day later is pay day and he gets his hands somehow on the pay check and blows it again at the only account which is still open - 32RED
- Family loses the house and has to move out
- Now they are in real trouble as it will cost a hell lot of money to find a rental place, pay for the fees to the bank for selling the house etc etc.

oh for... the train well and truly gone off the rails with that hyperbolic example.
32Red is truly the scourge of the gambling addicts of the world, nay, humanity which is why Bryan who clearly has read this thread, and no doubt flagged to by max and Webcaz who have posted, has chucked them in the rogue pit for their executive decision here.

oh wait

maybe just a tad perspective?
We don't like their decision.
Ok, express your dissatisfaction, warn members, discuss it ad nauseum, close your acct. et c.
They're STILL an accredited casino who happens to have made unpopular choice by following the letter, if perhaps not the spirit, of the guidelines (yes, debatable). But that addict who in your example who runs to 32Red being 'the only account which is still open' can open any bloody acct on a whim and blow his load. Perspective: 32Red made an alteration and decision which is unpopular with possible negative consequences.
While you can argue they've made the exclusion harder - and I havent contested this - they havent denied it to players.

 

[sueyh]

Just chipping in my thought.

A few people mentioned there is not much a big difference between automated SE/TAB system and phone-email SE/TAB system. That might be true. It could be just 10 minutes difference.

But here is a thing. "Gambling addiction" is a very very very serious problem. It is not about people have some debt. It is not about people has to eat some cheap sausages instead of nice eye-fillet steak. "Gambling addiction" can DESTROY people's LIFE.

I do not call the casino that took back-step regarding to SE(even though, it is just 0.1cm back) a good casino.

As it mentioned by other people, I'm going to talk with my wallet. I never gonna deposit my money into the casino that does not understand the seriousness of this problem.

 

[hedgehok]

It's clearly a matter of perspective how fiercely you condemn the new TAB/SE facilities that 32red provides. Since 32red is publicly traded and needs to address the demands of their shareholders which is maximizing profits it's understandable that they only provide the minimum SE/TAB facilities necessary to comply with regulation by UKGC.

I can very much imagine that many employees including Mark and many affiliates like Bryan are gutted by these changes on a personal basis but accept them as long as they don't violate regulations.

I find it absolutely admirable Harry, how you fight for players rights and have the empathy to see not only some anonymous cash cows for the casinos but real people with real problems which are directly affected in a negative way by these changes. I also hope that 32red reevaluates their approach towards SE/TAB and not only sees the bottom line.

 

[gagamel]

The worst for a gambling addict is actually to win a huge amount because that means he won't stop.
The win will keep him floating for a while but usually it just makes thing worse.

So no, I don't buy that reason either.

Good to hear that you reported EM too then because this seemed a little like your agenda against 32Red had grown too big.

In my opinion the worst for an addicted player is to win big, ask for a SE immediately and then he has to hear, that it can take some days to make a decision by management. But feel free to play a little bit, it`s your choice dear player. And if you lose, well you have 26 deposit options to win it back.

I closed my account because of this bad behaviour. And as far as I can see a lot of long time members here don`t like this behaviour too. Harry just keeps his finger in the wound of a former top casino which is now in a downward spiral.

 

[dunover]

There are a few that aren't seeing the greater picture here. When I joined CM the casino was a 9.3 rated or thereabouts, with only a few others for company. Now they languish at 28th. (last time I looked) and they are only just in the top 30 due to some high-scoring sites like Sky Vegas and Ladyboys falling by the wayside by neglecting to maintain reps or an interest here.

The criticism levelled here would be justified against any accredited site that downgraded RG, whatever people think about the character of those using RG tools. Years back they were my favourite site, and all the plaudits on here were well deserved. Most people are offended by greed, and that's even the case in a business that is really about greed (ours to win and the casinos' to make money).

This thread is really about our perspective regarding 'acceptable greed'. We are talking about a business that has taken a succession of greed-based and rather contemptuous decisions about all of you who play there. The focus is on maximizing potential for winnings being reversed. Yes, unfortunately for context I need to mention the introduction of pending and subsequently removal of flushing. But to tamper with RG settings solely for the purpose of preventing players, and especially large winners, TAB-ing while their withdrawal lies pending from 1-3 or 4 days was for many of us the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. Not being a reverser for me is irrelevant - it's the principle about the ethics of it that made me and many others close accounts.

When a casino makes an active decision to apply the lowest possible level of RG protection when they know a player is at their weakest i.e. when they've just won and have the 'feel-good factor' is simply inexcusable and marks the point where accountants have triumphed over customer care. Only their diehard apologists cannot see that.

I still cannot get over the contradiction as Tirilej pointed out whereby the excuse offered for removal of flushing was 'gave our CS too much work' and yet suddenly (when the accountants say so) it becomes cost-effective to give them the task of RG which was hitherto automated. <sniffing the air, exclaims "I love the smell of fertilizer in the morning!">

 

[Harry_BKK]

We can always dig deeper into this RG stuff and find more things which for me shows the questionable/debatable or maybe better said the "only as little as needed is done" stance 32RED is taking.

- OC provision 3.5.4, paragraph 3 - see screenshot 1

Nowhere on 32RED's RG pages is that stated. Surely the UKGC wording says "should", hence not a "must" and it is not done.

EM has that on their RG pages, see screenshot 2.

- What I also find quite questionable is the last sentence on the RG page of 32RED, see screenshot 3

It appears to the player that he can still have a few last punts/bets/spins as long as the SE has not been activated / the signed SE form returned to 32RED as bets/spins done before the activation will not be cancelled. This is comparable to telling a drunk at the check-in into a clinic: "oh well, you might as well have a few last drinks"

I can post more screenshots of similar things but will let these suffice for now.

Screenshot 1



Screenshot 2



Screenshot 3

 

[nutnut]

This thread is comedy gold, any remote seriousness at the start is gone. I know i shouldn't laugh but we might as well blame 32red for the iraq war invasion.

 

[Harry_BKK]

This thread is comedy gold, any remote seriousness at the start is gone. I know i shouldn't laugh but we might as well blame 32red for the iraq war invasion.

What brings you to that conclusion? I don't see any lost seriousness, gambling problems are at any time a serious issue.

 

[mimi26]

This thread is comedy gold, any remote seriousness at the start is gone. I know i shouldn't laugh but we might as well blame 32red for the iraq war invasion.

What a strange sense of humour

 

[paul7388]

This thread is comedy gold, any remote seriousness at the start is gone. I know i shouldn't laugh but we might as well blame 32red for the iraq war invasion.

Lol its a thread that should have died after a few pages. But like yourself I have to keep reading it to see whats getting added next.

And theres nothing new getting added. Everything getting posted was posted in first pages.

Like you said any serious points are now lost in the constant repeating of same points.

Its already been explained that you can TAB right away for 6 weeks by phoning them.

If someone seriously needs help and thinks im going to gamble everything and lose my whole life if I cant SE from every casino right away then add a software to our pcs that block all gambling sites and get internet provider to block them as well.

Seriously if someone was serious about never having anything to do with gambling sites they would get them all blocked.

But reading some of the comments about addicts etc. not just gambling addicts but other types getting added to the thread is just wrong.

Where do we go next. Does a mum sue the doctor as her heroin addict son has went to doctor for help . Doctor says he will get him in rehab but will take a few days. So next day he hits up and overdoses and dies. The mum then blames doctor as son told him he needed help and doctor could not give it instantly.

Sorry but only reason this thread is going so long is not because of 32REDS morally wrong removal of easier SE. That was discussed in 1 page.

Look at all 32RED posts and you will see its the same names every time that jump on anything anti 32RED. Its only going on so long as certain members have a personal agenda against the casino. It can be denied allyou want but reading other threads its clear to see.

 

[mimi26]

Lol its a thread that should have died after a few pages. But like yourself I have to keep reading it to see whats getting added next.

And theres nothing new getting added. Everything getting posted was posted in first pages.

Like you said any serious points are now lost in the constant repeating of same points.

Its already been explained that you can TAB right away for 6 weeks by phoning them.

If someone seriously needs help and thinks im going to gamble everything and lose my whole life if I cant SE from every casino right away then add a software to our pcs that block all gambling sites and get internet provider to block them as well.

Seriously if someone was serious about never having anything to do with gambling sites they would get them all blocked.

But reading some of the comments about addicts etc. not just gambling addicts but other types getting added to the thread is just wrong.

Where do we go next. Does a mum sue the doctor as her heroin addict son has went to doctor for help . Doctor says he will get him in rehab but will take a few days. So next day he hits up and overdoses and dies. The mum then blames doctor as son told him he needed help and doctor could not give it instantly.

Sorry but only reason this thread is going so long is not because of 32REDS morally wrong removal of easier SE. That was discussed in 1 page.

Look at all 32RED posts and you will see its the same name. Its only going wrong as certain members have a personal agenda against the casino. It can be denied allyou want but reading other threads its clear to see.

I could honestly say the same as those who like to pop in and out and make excuses for this type of behaviour from a casino, by for instance trying to argue that making a phonecall to SE or TAB is just as easy as pressing a button.......it isn't

I for one NEVER phone a casino I dont like speaking on the phone and I certainly would not like speaking to someone about something so personal to me, when people get to the point of SE etc they are usually filled with shame having to speak to a total stranger over a phone can and will put people of.

If people want to take a break they should not have to 'discuss' it with anyone, its a personal choice to them for many differing reasons. The problem I see with this whole issue is 32RED not taking the very serious issue of RG serious. I honestly feel they should be called out for this and I would like to see something in place with regards to the 'accreditation' of ALL casino here.

 

[dunover]

Lol its a thread that should have died after a few pages. But like yourself I have to keep reading it to see whats getting added next.

And theres nothing new getting added. Everything getting posted was posted in first pages.

Like you said any serious points are now lost in the constant repeating of same points.

Its already been explained that you can TAB right away for 6 weeks by phoning them.

If someone seriously needs help and thinks im going to gamble everything and lose my whole life if I cant SE from every casino right away then add a software to our pcs that block all gambling sites and get internet provider to block them as well.

Seriously if someone was serious about never having anything to do with gambling sites they would get them all blocked.

But reading some of the comments about addicts etc. not just gambling addicts but other types getting added to the thread is just wrong.

Where do we go next. Does a mum sue the doctor as her heroin addict son has went to doctor for help . Doctor says he will get him in rehab but will take a few days. So next day he hits up and overdoses and dies. The mum then blames doctor as son told him he needed help and doctor could not give it instantly.

Sorry but only reason this thread is going so long is not because of 32REDS morally wrong removal of easier SE. That was discussed in 1 page.

Look at all 32RED posts and you will see its the same names every time that jump on anything anti 32RED. Its only going on so long as certain members have a personal agenda against the casino. It can be denied allyou want but reading other threads its clear to see.

Well, who provokes these threads? Ermmm. let me see...ah!! That would be 32red themselves, for their customer unfriendly actions! Of course, should we debate these and not lie down unquestioningly like good little sycophants then of course we have an 'agenda'! Brilliant! Especially when we could equally accuse the apologists of having an agenda too.

 

[paul7388]

I could honestly say the same as those who like to pop in and out and make excuses for this type of behaviour from a casino, by for instance trying to argue that making a phonecall to SE or TAB is just as easy as pressing a button.......it isn't

I for one NEVER phone a casino I dont like speaking on the phone and I certainly would not like speaking to someone about something so personal to me, when people get to the point of SE etc they are usually filled with shame having to speak to a total stranger over a phone can and will put people of.

If people want to take a break they should not have to 'discuss' it with anyone, its a personal choice to them for many differing reasons. The problem I see with this whole issue is 32RED not taking the very serious issue of RG serious. I honestly feel they should be called out for this and I would like to see something in place with regards to the 'accreditation' of ALL casino here.

If someone was totally desperate then yes they would phone.

And if you actually bothered to read what I posted earlier which clearly you cant have.

I have never made excuses for them. I said it was wrong myself. The rest of the stuff was to show that its still possible to TAB if you really wanted too. And someone that wants to stop playing back a withdrawal and knows they will when they are drunk etc. can phone and stop it happening no shame in it.

But thanks your post backs up what I posted. The reason the thread is going so long is not because of issues. Its because of personal agendas. To say people are arguing a point they aren't clearly shows people are so hell bent on making posts about 32RED they don't bother to even read what others have posted properly.

 

[dionysus]

A lot of members have posted and staff but hope too Bryan when he's had the chance to thoroughly go through it all will add his opinion.
I agree with some members and generally respect dissenting opinions but definitely respect his (whether it's similar or dissimilar) as he's 'old hat' in these areas with insight many of us don't have

I'll report my own post and maybe he'll add.

 

[nutnut]

paul7388 is correct, it's simply gone beyond the issue and just a personal agenda for some posters, almost verging on a obsession with way too much time on their hands.

Given these same people have deleted their accounts, that should be enough of a point made, to keep going on and now reading stories of addicts, i don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[mimi26]

If someone was totally desperate then yes they would phone.

And if you actually bothered to read what I posted earlier which clearly you cant have.

I have never made excuses for them. I said it was wrong myself. The rest of the stuff was to show that its still possible to TAB if you really wanted too. And someone that wants to stop playing back a withdrawal and knows they will when they are drunk etc. can phone and stop it happening no shame in it.

But thanks your post backs up what I posted. The reason the thread is going so long is not because of issues. Its because of personal agendas. To say people are arguing a point they aren't clearly shows people are so hell bent on making posts about 32RED they don't bother to even read what others have posted properly.

I did read thanks, you said it was wrong .......followed by you can just phone them up and do it, that to me is an apologist stance, at the end of the day its a thread people are discussing, I have no agenda against 32red I still play there, it does not mean I have to stay 'loyal' In my opinion of them it also does not mean I have to call people out on imaginary agendas. At the end of the day if you dont like a thread you just dont click on it.

 

[paul7388]

I did read thanks, you said it was wrong .......followed by you can just phone them up and do it, that to me is an apologist stance, at the end of the day its a thread people are discussing, I have no agenda against 32red I still play there, it does not mean I have to stay 'loyal' In my opinion of them it also does not mean I have to call people out on imaginary agendas. At the end of the day if you dont like a thread you just dont click on it.

Point out the bit where I said you had a personal agenda about them.

Go back and read the 32RED posts from last 2 years and you will see exactly who the people are that cannot wait to get a dig in against the casino whether the casino is wrong. That im afraid is a personal agenda.

 

[Harry_BKK]

paul7388 is correct, it's simply gone beyond the issue and just a personal agenda for some posters, almost verging on a obsession with way too much time on their hands.

Given these same people have deleted their accounts, that should be enough of a point made, to keep going on and now reading stories of addicts, i don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why do you keep saying this is a personal agenda??? It is not.

Gambling addiction and RG regulations are not a personal agenda, period.

It has taken more than a decade to get proper RG tools "forced" onto online casino operators, they are still far from perfect, nor comprehensive. The central SE database system that will be introduced in the UK in 2017 will be a big step towards that although it is only one country but it will be a start and others will follow.

One of the most reputable brands then goes and degrades it to the absolute minimum. I think they fully deserve the flak they are getting and that is not coming just from me or dunover and a few more members, some of the most reputable and senior CM members have also expressed their discontent/concerns in this thread .

Later is became clear that another operator, Everymatrix, have shown just as much negligence in this respect and they have been added to this discussion as well as been reported to the UKGC.

Or do you think Bryan would not have closed this thread long time ago if it would have been a personal agenda. He read the thread a week ago and hasn't taken any action. Why? Because "Responsible Gaming" is important!! It can never be a personal agenda.

 

[dionysus]

Why do you keep saying this is a personal agenda??? It is not.

Gambling addiction and RG regulations are not a personal agenda, period.

It has taken more than a decade to get proper RG tools "forced" onto online casino operators, they are still far from perfect, nor comprehensive. The central SE database system that will be introduced in the UK in 2017 will be a big step towards that although it is only one country but it will be a start and others will follow.

One of the most reputable brands then goes and degrades it to the absolute minimum. I think they fully deserve the flak they are getting and that is not coming just from me or dunover and a few more members, some of the most reputable and senior CM members have also expressed their discontent/concerns in this thread .

Later is became clear that another operator, Everymatrix, have shown just as much negligence in this respect and they have been added to this discussion as well as been reported to the UKGC.

Or do you think Bryan would not have closed this thread long time ago if it would have been a personal agenda. He read the thread a week ago and hasn't taken any action. Why? Because "Responsible Gaming" is important!! It can never be a personal agenda.

Or well, he hasn't had time to properly scour the thread having come back from vacation or reached out to the casino. He hasn't exactly condemned them either.
Hopefully, when able, he'll add his bit.