Wtf happened to Dead or Alive

[brianmon]

So, is that something that was usually done and maybe even one of the 'reasons' you got these monster wildline bonus rounds in the flash version?

Yeah, should have come to the conclusion earlier, I reckon. But it doesn't seem to matter what explanation you get, regarding anything about the HTML5 games, everything get's boiled down to the belief that the math has changed.

Even if the perceived change really has nothing to do with the math model itself.

Even if the information is coming from people in the industry or even people with insight into the particular company and it's games. Some of you still seem to think there's a sinister mastermind somewhere up high that only takes decisions that would f*rk with you/line his own pockets etc.

Anyway, you can believe what you want. I'm not going to repeat myself any longer.

Since it's a policy across all games. My post wasn't necassarily directed just at DOA.

But, although it's not so common on DOA, since it's only 9 lines to begin with, I have seen screenshots in the past, where some big wins have been achieved on 1-3 lines.

If you happen to have a decent balance, and maybe some wagering to get through. Why not try a few spins at £1.80 on one line (equivalent to a £16.20 spin on full lines)
Rather scary for the casino.

That's maybe another reason why some casinos have un-banned from bonus play. Since you can't do that now.

It's the games with higher line counts which are often played with less lines and a higher base stake. Which can obviously change a low variance game into a higher variance game.

 

[goatwack]

He seems to have had a long obsession with Netent and high-stakes playing. One can trace back to many posts where Gonzo flipped his lid over their games, and how badly they played when on high bets.

The constant chasing, frustration & financial loss, as well as his interpretation of hearing how fair and random slots are, made him go a bit mad. It was unnecessary but it had boiled up over several months. It was just a matter of time

 

[pedroxante]

Ok, I see your point. And maybe that was taken into account then (to flatten the variance) when the decision was made to remove the option.

That was however not the explanation we received when we omitted the option for the HTML games.

 

[greylady]

He es an asshole. In the begining i liked him. But now he shows that unless u dont agrre with him or belive him he tryes to make u look stupid.

Oh Gonzo, at least apologise? Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and we don't all necessarily agree but resorting to name calling is playground behaviour, it costs nowt to be polite you know, even if you disagree

 

[goatwack]

 

[aceking123]

View attachment 89438

With a face like that your not

 

[Fridayhigh]

WTF is that supposed to mean? What watch dog? We have admins here who rarely threaten to ban people - unless that are posting troll posts. LCB and CM two entirely different companies, different missions, different set up, different staff (they have +30) we have five.

I wasn't aware that you are privy to LCB's income after taxes and expenses.

And no, I don't buy my beer at Lidl.

Satire gone amiss. maybe a little R & R in GAP is due.

 

[Nate]

Hey Slotter999,

I used to work at NetEnt, I can confidently say that they do not change the mathematics of their games when changing to HTML5. I had mentioned it at ICE this year too and was told this policy remains unchanged.

Thanks,

Rachel.

You used to work for NetEnt.... Since your departure its now called NetBent

Since NetEnt hasn't changed anything can someone tell me if NetBent has?

Nate

 

[dave1888]

I got mauled by old DOA yesterday aaaaah memories!

The exciting bit was, the more it mauled the more likely it seemed it would pay.... wouldn't you agree guys?

Also as I said before if a game's paying out like bloodsuckers in the base it's inevitable that the bonuses will be gash. No more money left in the pot

 

[sueyh]

Maybe the numbers I got from VS new feature MY RTP can be a proof of DOA has changed from flash version.

My RTP for Bonanza is 99.89%, and I belive I have this high RTP thanks to my 2500x win-60 cents bet, very close to $1500 win.

My RTP for DOA is 111%, but my biggest win was not even 1000x win. MY RTP section shows the biggest win on individual slot and my biggest win on DOA with 111% RTP is a little bit less than $400 with 45 cents bet.
I think this clearly shows there is increase of medium size win.

 

[goatwack]

I'd been chugging away at this all month (oo-er) at Leo Vegas without success.

Ten bloody minutes at Videoslots, strangely, and I get an 'almost wildline' that pays a lot.

It's almost like it's casino- based with slots I swear.....

 

[dave1888]

I'd been chugging away at this all month (oo-er) at Leo Vegas without success.

Ten bloody minutes at Videoslots, strangely, and I get an 'almost wildline' that pays a lot.

It's almost like it's casino- based with slots I swear.....

sort of like my RTP on Warlords @ Trada is the worst, yet my RTP on the same slot at Energy is remarkable!

 

[greylady]

I just had a look at my stats at VS, there is a noticeable change in this slot, my RTP peaked at the very start of November 2017 and in 5.5 months the game has seldom hit it's RTP - has the play changed or are slots beginning to compensate?

I am not complaining as my RTP remains higher than the recommended but 5.5 months of relatively poor play after a nice win gives you food for thought seeing as it has only hit it's recommended RTP twice in that time.

 

[Paimonah]

It's worse for me:

 

[trancemonkey]

It's worse for me:
View attachment 89951

What do you expect after only 278 spins... it could be anywhere between 50% and 4000% after that much!

 

[Tropicana50]

We have analysed the statistics from both the Flash version of this game and the HTML version in detail at the request of several prominent members of Casino Meister. We performed many levels of standard deviation and cross comparison on over 2 million real money spins and 15 million demo spins.

We can clarify that our findings do not show a change in the variance across the different game types. Our data shows that the games play in the exact same way.

In the aspect of complete transparency we are happy to provide a confidential copy of our data if others wish to perform further analysis.

- T

 

[dionysus]

We can clarify that our findings do not show a change in the variance across the different game types. Our data shows that the games play in the exact same way.
- T

I'll have to bookmark this for reference - you can be guaranteed it'll keep coming up

 

[Solaris]

I'd been chugging away at this all month (oo-er) at Leo Vegas without success.

Ten bloody minutes at Videoslots, strangely, and I get an 'almost wildline' that pays a lot.

It's almost like it's casino- based with slots I swear.....

LeoVegas is confirmed to have less RTP on slots. Didn't you know?
That is why they didn't care about marketing to vulnerable palyers and was fined.
Lovely industry right?

 

[pinnit2014]

Confirmed as in?

 

[goatwack]

Confirmed as in?

By rigging their slots.

 

[pinnit2014]

By rigging their slots.

You’re normally an unrandom guy!

 

[goatwack]

You’re normally an unrandom guy!

Usually. But I like to mix it up by being randomless

 

[Solaris]

Confirmed as in?

Confirmed as in when you lose massive amounts of money on LV and not on VideoSlots

 

[Jono777]

Confirmed as in when you lose massive amounts of money on LV and not on VideoSlots

Its all down to luck - yes one casino can be continually lucky, another very rarely lucky.

Its the opposite more or less for me, well up on LV over the years but find VS slots so tight 9/10.

 

[brianmon]

I'll have to bookmark this for reference - you can be guaranteed it'll keep coming up

Sorry. but ever since Slot Tracker was bought out by (whichever) affiliate group, I have ZERO faith in anything they might have to say, although, that's not directed at Tropicana50 personally

 

[Steviedoo]

Sorry. but ever since Slot Tracker was bought out by (whichever) affiliate group, I have ZERO faith in anything they might have to say, although, that's not directed at Tropicana50 personally

Everything is rigged...even slot tracker...a bit far fetched....

 

[brianmon]

Everything is rigged...even slot tracker...a bit far fetched....

I'm not saying slot tracker is rigged, so don't jump to conclusions, I'm sure the programme runs fine.
I was told by them that there was no way they could differentiate between HTML5 DOA and flash DOA. But after the 'buy out' there now is !!!

It just seems like most of the ones who shout the loudest about things not being rigged are the affiliates, who have a vested interest in players 'having faith' in their deposits.

Which begs the question.... Why would an affiliate group buy slot tracker for $1M?
Are they really expecting to make that money back from a limited subscriber base?

 

[Borgie]

Sorry. but ever since Slot Tracker was bought out by (whichever) affiliate group, I have ZERO faith in anything they might have to say, although, that's not directed at Tropicana50 personally

Why ? Out of interest

 

[dunover]

So people are still playing Notent slots then?
ST was bought by Game Lounge a Swedish company for an eventual 1m Euros and I understand they intend to use the tool to assist affiliate sales by providing information from it to influence player decisions on which casinos and slots to play/sign up to. In other words if a player is looking for frequent bonus rounds, or high average bonus round return then the info will be provided and where they can play the game. A bit like Slotscomparer on steroids.

 

[interlog]

So people are still playing Notent slots then?
ST was bought by Game Lounge a Swedish company for an eventual 1m Euros and I understand they intend to use the tool to assist affiliate sales by providing information from it to influence player decisions on which casinos and slots to play/sign up to. In other words if a player is looking for frequent bonus rounds, or high average bonus round return then the info will be provided and where they can play the game. A bit like Slotscomparer on steroids.

I don't begrudge anybody making a penny or two on new applications such as Slot Tracker.

But Slot Tracker was partially successful because of the hours of work put in by members on this forum during the beta testing. In return for what? A few months free gold membership. Hardly a good reward considering that it was flogged for a very nice penny or two.

 

[Steviedoo]

I don't begrudge anybody making a penny or two on new applications such as Slot Tracker.

But Slot Tracker was partially successful because of the hours of work put in by members on this forum during the beta testing. In return for what? A few months free gold membership. Hardly a good reward considering that it was flogged for a very nice penny or two.

All cm members did, was install on our computers?
And enjoyed or not the results of our slotting with it. Or was there more.

And what should we expect in return? Curious.

 

[Steviedoo]

I'm not saying slot tracker is rigged, so don't jump to conclusions, I'm sure the programme runs fine.
I was told by them that there was no way they could differentiate between HTML5 DOA and flash DOA. But after the 'buy out' there now is !!!

It just seems like most of the ones who shout the loudest about things not being rigged are the affiliates, who have a vested interest in players 'having faith' in their deposits.

Which begs the question.... Why would an affiliate group buy slot tracker for $1M?
Are they really expecting to make that money back from a limited subscriber base?

Ok...your post implied something was up.

Aren’t some casinos still running the non HTML doa....i suppose if they were testing the non HTML version they only used slot tracker on doa at those casinos that have the non HTML and vice versa.

 

[interlog]

All cm members did, was install on our computers?
And enjoyed or not the results of our slotting with it. Or was there more.

And what should we expect in return? Curious.

Some provided a lot of detail, reported bugs etc.

Perhaps it was the way I interpreted the orginal posts from them here, but I didn't interpret the posts to be of a commercial nature with the ultimate aim being making a million bucks from it.

I would have expected life time gold membership in return as a thank you for me helping them to flog the product

 

[Steviedoo]

Some provided a lot of detail, reported bugs etc.

Perhaps it was the way I interpreted the orginal posts from them here, but I didn't interpret the posts to be of a commercial nature with the ultimate aim being making a million bucks from it.

I would have expected life time gold membership in return as a thank you for me helping them to flog the product

Ah...I agree.
I just installed on my computer. That’s why.

But yes that would have been great thatnk you.

 

[SpinUk]

We have analysed the statistics from both the Flash version of this game and the HTML version in detail at the request of several prominent members of Casino Meister. We performed many levels of standard deviation and cross comparison on over 2 million real money spins and 15 million demo spins.

We can clarify that our findings do not show a change in the variance across the different game types. Our data shows that the games play in the exact same way.

In the aspect of complete transparency we are happy to provide a confidential copy of our data if others wish to perform further analysis.

- T

I asked to have a look at the data a couple of months ago but you ignored my PM.

Why not post a slightly more detailed synopsis of your findings here? Struggling to see why the data would be confidential as its from publicly accessed servers.

It would also be a fitting gift back to the CM commmunity that drove the success of Slot Tracker (including subscribing myself) in the first place and put this and other similar threads to bed once and for all.

 

[goatwack]

I don't care for the fly by night statement about DOA playing the same, when it's quite clearly not. One need only play it, after having the old version emblazoned on our brains, to see the base game produces far more 5OAKs than before, whilst the bonus suffers as a result.

 

[Spikie]

If SlotTracker sold for a million then fair play to the creator , sold at what is probably market peak.

As the gaming regs have evolved in UK and are now showing personal and game specific rtp at a casino , it would be trivial to aggregate the stats and provide community data , as well as bonus stats etc. So potentially hundreds of competitors suddenly on the scene.

So how can the affiliate group that bought it think that it would be worth that much ?

Or was it bad timing for them , and great for ST ?

 

[SpinUk]

If SlotTracker sold for a million then fair play to the creator , sold at what is probably market peak.

As the gaming regs have evolved in UK and are now showing personal and game specific rtp at a casino , it would be trivial to aggregate the stats and provide community data , as well as bonus stats etc. So potentially hundreds of competitors suddenly on the scene.

So how can the affiliate group that bought it think that it would be worth that much ?

Or was it bad timing for them , and great for ST ?

Yea - if it did actually sell for £1m

 

[brianmon]

Yea - if it did actually sell for £1m

They haven't actually paid €1m in one lump sum though, there are conditions to be met.

gamelounge.com/news/game-lounge-acquires-slottracker-com

 

[pinnit2014]

May only have been for 200k if the conditions to the rest aren’t met ;-)

 

[pinnit2014]

Oops Brian got in first

 

[SpinUk]

Last time I heard there were less than 1000 subscribers, admittedly some time ago so hopefully they have managed to ramp that up without too much wastage.

Two year revenue acquisition value about right then. I liked the concept, unfortunately the continual less than 100% reliability of recording what you were playing made it redundant for me. Hopefully they have ironed that out now.

 

[pinnit2014]

Probably need to look at their Gold status pricing. It’s not massive but it’s certainly not cheap as chips, especially with casinos offering basic RTP showings.

Only time I really paid much attention for it was seeing could I break my gold less Bonanza streak. Must be the sadist in me.

 

[SpinUk]

Probably need to look at their Gold status pricing. It’s not massive but it’s certainly not cheap as chips, especially with casinos offering basic RTP showings.

Only time I really paid much attention for it was seeing could I break my gold less Bonanza streak. Must be the sadist in me.

Agreed - if they had dropped it to a fiver,
I think they would be looking at 50k subscribers and have doubled their revenue. Their product -> their choice though.

 

[pinnit2014]

Agreed - if they had dropped it to a fiver,
I think they would be looking at 50k subscribers and have doubled their revenue. Their product -> their choice though.

True - what was weird I thought re the pricing is that it was still in its infancy, still bugs and tweaks yet a premium price for it. As said, their choice but it is interesting as to see if it still remains relevant in the coming years.

Re the original question on DOA. The games whole feel is different. Old version was less bonus offerings but bigger for me. Personally iv had more success on new one but iv been hammering it more than I did the old one. Only my opinion.

 

[SpinUk]

True - what was weird I thought re the pricing is that it was still in its infancy, still bugs and tweaks yet a premium price for it. As said, their choice but it is interesting as to see if it still remains relevant in the coming years.

Re the original question on DOA. The games whole feel is different. Old version was less bonus offerings but bigger for me. Personally iv had more success on new one but iv been hammering it more than I did the old one. Only my opinion.

Well they got the data right there.

Hopefully Tropicana will reciprocate to the Casinomeister community to everyone here who subscribed and took the time to beta test his new product. Hopefully.

 

[Nicola]

You can still play the old version of Dead or Alive at any casino just by adding notmobile or sw to the URL.

Works the same with Raging Rhino and Monte. Not so easy when using a tablet though!

 

[stokes]

I think the statistics available from Slot Tracker regarding the flash and HTML5 version of DoA is irrelevant as the data for the flash version is only available after the change.
The suspicion (at least mine) is that they changed the mechanics of the game at the same time when the HTML5 version was introduced.
So it does not really matter which front end (flash or HTML5) you use NOW the game play will be the same

 

[Jono777]

You can still play the old version of Dead or Alive at any casino just by adding notmobile or sw to the URL.

Works the same with Raging Rhino and Monte. Not so easy when using a tablet though!

@Nicola

Can you show an example please (IE: where to type this part you mention)

For an intelligent bloke, I am so slow sometimes - Have I understood this right I can go to say a Caddell site where they have HTML5 Rhino, add this "notmobile" and play flash version??

 

[Steviedoo]

I think the statistics available from Slot Tracker regarding the flash and HTML5 version of DoA is irrelevant as the data for the flash version is only available after the change.
The suspicion (at least mine) is that they changed the mechanics of the game at the same time when the HTML5 version was introduced.
So it does not really matter which front end (flash or HTML5) you use NOW the game play will be the same

Have the maths changed cuz in order to do so they would have to get the game inspected again.