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Would you auction your deposit?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Peter-Jan, Jan 27, 2010.

    Jan 27, 2010
  1. Peter-Jan

    Peter-Jan Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Development, PlayersBay.com
    Location:
    Europe
    Hi,

    We are working on a 'deposit auction' site where players would create a free auction for the value of their deposit and casinos - who match the player's criteria - would than be able to bid with deposit bonuses and cashback offers.

    (I am not sure if I am allowed to promote my website here so I won't give the name until I get confirmation it's OK from mods.)

    After talking to some players and casinos, here are the feature requests we received:
    - 100% free to player (affiliate commissions from casinos)
    -,Automated bidding for casinos so players get their offers quicker
    - Only reputable casinos & demonstrating it (for casinos we decided on Affiliate Guard Dog certification + no CasinoMeister warnings)
    - Keeping track of deposit history to 'transfer' player status to other casinos easily (and allow casinos to bid better bonuses for depositing players at OTHER casinos)
    - Entire process should take no longer than 2 minutes.

    So, would you auction your deposit? Would you take 2 minutes of your time before every deposit to make sure you get the best deposit bonus/cashback offer available for your deposit history?

    Also, assuming you had a profile on the site, would you like to share your deposit history (under the user name of your choice) with the world?

    Thanks for your help!
     
  2. Jan 27, 2010
  3. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    If I have the option not to deposit when I have seen the outcome after 2 minutes I`ll say maybe.

    If I want to deposit 30$ and the best offer is 50% with WR of 20 times dep+bon I do not want to deposit.

    There is also huge difference between bonuses at casinos.

    At 32red and several others you can see your own money and the bonus money which means that you can make a withdrawal even if you haven`t forfilled the wr.

    At many Rival, Playtech and RTG casinos the bonus money isn`t withdrawable at all. The bonus money is removed from your money when you make the withdrawal. The bonus is just "play money" at those casinos.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Jan 27, 2010
  5. tat00

    tat00 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    SELF EMPLOYED
    Location:
    san diego cA
    this is a good idea however there are some drawbacks here- some casinos has different rules to its bonuses such as is the bonus cashable or whats max cash out and playthrough. i will not take 50 percent anymore becasue i rather play without any restriction but 100 percent i might think different. i like the big ones at 300 and 400 percent i will always deposit because i can then bet big bets to see if something happens rather than building it up . if there are going to be auctions for people like me who deposit almost everyday at different casinos than yes its great idea
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jan 27, 2010
  7. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    I truly enjoy people that are creative thinkers.

    I'm just a cash depositor so wouldn't really have concerns about a site like this. But I see lots of problems on the horizon with your idea.

    For one thing the 100% free to player (affiliate commissions from casinos) is gonna raise hell from the affiliates stationed here already, and this thread is going to look like Swiss cheese in short order even if it could work.

    On another note I think you would have a hard time getting casinos to participate. Hard up casinos would of course want to be part of it, and the most interested ones would probably be rogues.

    When it comes to bonuses I believe it's a carefully crafted tool that online casinos developed to give false hope to rookie and small depositors. I know the rare winner with a $20.00 plus bonus depositor will argue here. But if the casinos weren't cleaning up with all these crazy bonuses offered, they wouldn't be offered.

    I would say most of the online casinos would not want to be part of a program that would force them to give the best bonus possible to customers. Especially after offering an alleged good bonus to a player, and then know that players next deposit will probably be somewhere else because of the auction. Casinos do prefer loyal players and (players that deposit from an auction) don't sound like potential steady loyal customers. It's sort of like selling merchandise from the phone. Once you give a price on the phone, that customer will call everyone else in town and sooner or later someone is going to beat your price. Unless your the cheapest hands down out of the gate, giving a price on the phone will usually guarantee a no sale. In addition with all the casinos different cleverly crafted T&C's related to bonuses I can't possibly see something like this working.

    This response is just of the top of my head without much thought. But I'm certain many more responses here will confirm my thinking.
     
    3 people like this.
  8. Jan 27, 2010
  9. WagerWitch

    WagerWitch Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Yeah - like - really? Hmmm do I have to work?
    Location:
    Alaska
    Without knowing much more about the concept - then probably not.

    Only because I think my interaction with EACH casino should be private.

    And I don't believe in sharing player databases.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jan 27, 2010
  11. gloria460

    gloria460 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    nurse
    Location:
    Florida
    I think it would be a very good idea but it would also depend on certain factors such as availability of a player to play at certain casinos. It needs to be constantly updated by the site or have the casino send the bonus terms out on say Monday and it's distributed to your database that same day....etc, etc...different bonuses everyday or once a week.

    I like this idea and quite a few irons need to be worked out. Rogue casinos should definitely not be allowed to participate.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jan 27, 2010
  13. Peter-Jan

    Peter-Jan Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Development, PlayersBay.com
    Location:
    Europe
    First of all thanks all for answering. It is really appreciated!

    Very good point. I will change the positioning on our homepage/landing page to include the mention that it's not only free but also optional to deposit when posting an auction.

    Good point by both of you. Most of this we already programmed into our system. The bids made by the casinos have the following variables:
    - Bonus%
    - Playthrough (WR)
    - Bonus type: Cashable, sticky, or play bonus
    - % of wagers that count to WR
    - Cashback%

    Our automated bidding allows for different bidding per game category, e.g. different for slots than for mahjong.

    We don't have max cashouts and cashbac requirement variables though. Would it be a deal breaker not to have those?

    Using our auctions would be a great way for you to quickly get all bonus bids and select the 300-400% ones (if any).

    Someone like you who deposits frequently at a wide range of casinos is the type of person who could potentially get the most out of our website.

    Thank you for the compliment.

    Could you please tell me why you think this? You think I will be criticized for trying to build something useful? Criticism would only help me...

    By the way, we have a 100% affiliate program: If a webmasters brings us a user and that user generates a deposit, we ask the affiliate program in question to transfer that player from our to our aff's affiliate account.

    I respectfully disagree. We have received a lot of good feedback from the operators already.

    Compare what I am doing as building a shopping mall, where customers can come and retail stores offer their discount offers.

    So the question becomes: Do only rogue retailers come to shopping malls?

    I'd say to the contrary. Visitors are attracted to shopping malls due to the low search costs, and stores (both good and bad) know it. The advantage that good brands have over rogue retailers in a shopping mall is that as competition works at its finest, their brand advantage can be capitalized on to the fullest.

    In a shopping mall people judge reputation of unknown store brands by amount of visitors in the shop. To achieve the same on our site, we will tell our users the most preferred casinos by our users.

    Good point. I agree that deposit bonuses mostly cater to the novice to intermediate player. The more experienced player will value more the cashback% offered in the bonus bids. Or are we totally wrong?

    Online casinos are not a commodity IMO. Trust is extremely important, hence the success of sites such as CasinoMeister. So, as bonuses and cashback are far from the only consideration, I don't necessarily expect the casinos with the 'best' bonuses to get the most deposit activity.

    If people see that a certain casino is one of the most popular on our site yet doesn't give the 'best' bonuses, that's a pretty good signal right?

    Good point. The idea here is that:
    - People looking to be a loyal player will use our auctions once to find a casino they like (and we will launch side services that cater to these player's need for info). These players could prove more loyal after using our auctions as they know (or so we hope to convince them) that using our auction they considered all reputable casinos.
    - Players who like to experience different casinos won't be that loyal anyway, so here we offer a nice way to reach those players.

    What do you think?

    Great point. Currently the deposit activity would be linked to your user name, but I'll put the following options to our feature list:
    A. Publicly share my deposit activity (both total amount & casino names)
    B. Keep casino names private but share total amount
    C. Keep both casino names and total amount private (casinos won't be able to improve bids for big depositors).

    Would these changes address your concerns?

    We match casinos and players on game that will be played as well as player location. For players who want it we also have optional requirements like acceptance of deposit method, currency to play in, software platform, etcetera. When you start an auction, we show you the list of casinos that match your requirements in real time - so you know before you start the auction.

    Our automated bidding (that is offered to casinos to fill in) allows for improved bonus offers based on certain criteria (like deposit amount, deposit history, etcetera). All these options lead to a number of 'scenarios', for each the casinos give a custom bonus code (in the future; also link possible). That way the bonuses offered will always match your profile without the need for constant updates. It does require some upfront time investment by the casinos though.

    They won't be able to participate. All casinos have to be:
    - Certified by Affiliate Guard Dog
    - Not blacklisted at CasinoMeister

    Hope it helps - please keep on giving feedback!
     
  14. Jan 28, 2010
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Of course it would!

    Max cashouts are a VERY important factor when deciding upon an offer. They would indicate that you CANNOT win more than a certain, usually low, multiple of your deposit. Not listing this information will allow casinos to make inflated offers, knowing they have this max cashout "trap" up their sleeve.

    Each auction offer from casinos MUST contain the ENTIRE terms and conditions for that bonus, and there also needs to be a link to the ENTIRE general terms and conditions since it is intended that this site will allow casinos to recruit NEW players.

    Sharing data between bidding casinos MUST be optional, and here there is the danger that the player will simply LIE in their profile so as to trick the casinos into bidding for a "whale", but finding they have caught a "minnow".

    Casinos should focus more on the CURRENT deposit being offered by the player, and any other history should be VERIFIED history, perhaps by using ONLY data collected through the site.

    Casinos could also have the ability to leave "feedback" on players, visible to BOTH casinos AND the player in question, similar to the "feedback" facility offered by eBay. This will allow casinos to have some guide as to which players are likely to keep their end of the deal, rather than try to manipulate the system.

    This venture will ONLY work if BOTH casinos and players are keen to participate.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jan 28, 2010
  17. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Max cashout is really important to have in your system. Just clarify to the casinos that there is no max cashout allowed.

    You also have to have other data to compare casinos and their bonuses:

    Weekly/monthly max withdrawals

    Time for withdrawals

    Currency

    Taxes( I have to pay taxes for all casino wins from casinos outside EU)

    Deposit options

    Etc etc. This means that you have to have a standard requirement for the casinos that is much more limited and strict than the list here from the accredited casinos.

    :eek:

    I certainly disagree here.

    The player is the customer and the only thing the casinos can tell about the customer is about chargebacks.

    What other things are there? Deposit history? Withdrawal history?

    Other things like misbehaviour like playing Bj with a slots only bonus is just a major f*ck up from the casinos who gives the player the opportunity to use slots bonuses on BJ..

    I am already really mad about those casinos who is connected to use the players withdrawals and deposit history.(some Rival and many Top Game)
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Feb 3, 2010
  19. Peter-Jan

    Peter-Jan Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Development, PlayersBay.com
    Location:
    Europe
    Hi Vinylweatherman,

    Thanks for the feedback! To answer your comments:

    - Max cashout will be added as a bonus bid variable
    - We are going to analyze casino and bonus terms (much like Affiliate Guard Dog does for aff program terms)
    - We indeed only use confirmed deposit history from the site itself to avoid fake deposit history profiles
    - No personal data get shared (we don't even have your real name etcetera...), casinos just know the PlayersBay deposit history of the player that starts the auction
    - Feedback is indeed live on the site

    Hope it helps!
     
  20. Feb 3, 2010
  21. Peter-Jan

    Peter-Jan Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Development, PlayersBay.com
    Location:
    Europe
    Hi Maphesto,

    Thanks for the feedback! To reply to your comments:

    - Weekly/monthly max withdrawals, Time for withdrawals, Currency, Taxes( I have to pay taxes for all casino wins from casinos outside EU), Deposit options are all casino wide variables (so not different for each bonus) hence we will talk about them in the casino review page, but not add them as bid variables.

    Also, PlayersBay users who start an auction have the possibility to require certain deposit methods, currencies to play in, ... and we will filter casinos who can bid based on that.

    - Bonus bids are dependant on game category, to avoid the problems you rightly mention about bonus restrictions on games to be played.

    - We don't share any information to the casinos, we just keep track of your started and completed deposit auctions and give the sum of deposits made via our site auctions

    Hope it helps!
     

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