Winnings confiscation based on multiple accounts from same I.P or computer

[dunover]

On the subject of credit-card numbers and personal details, you'll probably find that the payment processor, which will deal with many casinos will flag them, as each casino will have it's own code for the processor, so a duplicate code/details may come up quite quickly. The IP/MAC address I can't say for certain how quick any specific site would spot it - if the site processes payouts at weekends they probably have weekend staff, whereas some don't apart from shared CS live chat portals.
It does concern me as to why you are so interested in how they spotted you though...

 

[davos11]

Also earlier in the thread someone said this
"It's about BONUSES. Just about EVERY casino I know has a "ONE BONUS per IP/Computer/school/etc/etc" rule and they ENFORCE it. Are you saying that pretty much ALL of the accredited casinos are ROGUE? "

I'm not doubting the poster but more a question , If like you said one per school or something similar how would one person know from the next if somebody had or hadn't already opened an account using that i.p or computer etc..
Now if it was opened using the same email address or bank card was used you would be alerted to this right away as being duplicate but this wasnt the case for the I.P address ,If there was a message when signing up i would not have gone ahead ,
Again yes this was my fault , But in other cases ,Like you mentioned above in places were there may be many many individuals at say a place of work ,college etc.. How could one person know if somebody has already made an account on that computer , I know this is not the case for me but would being unknowing or oblivious really be a case of fraud ?

 

[davos11]

Come one....
It's not at all about spotting me ,I am not even talking about my case anymore ,It's more if what they're doing is fair or even legal
and again it seems rather than answer the questions your pointing fingers again.
I think my point is a very fair one , yes you maybe right about the processors dealing with payments but who deals with usernames and email address's ,surely that's the casinos database ,And if they have that stuff stored already then you think they would have I.P's stored to .
I originally came hre for help with my problem but after reading around alot on here it seems alot of people fall foul of casinos and there terms and conditions and yes alot of the people like myself have them selves to blame ,We broke the casinos rules / laws but is there anyone questioning the fairness or morality of there laws ,Its a huge multi trillion pound business and they seem to be able to do what they want ,I guess that's why alot of them are based in small African islands
I guess that's more my problem , Not right or wrong but fairness and morality ,I can take that i wasted my time and lost my money but because we used one laptop instead of another is quite a bitter pill to swallow, yes there are lots of people abusing the system that they have to protect against but then i'm sure there are alot that are not , like myself ,At no point have i tried to get one over or deceive ,I can provide any docs,passports etc that may be needed for proof of the mistake ,I'ts not like you said earlier were you could be pretending to be your aunty or nan or gerbil ,There are 2 people who can both provide proof of who they are that simply misunderstood the rules ( due to not reading them ) , I thought i knew enough ,I thought 2 separate people , with 2 different households and 2 different bank accounts were allowed to have accounts on the same site , using the same computer never even crossed my mind .....
Which brings me to another question, Although far fetched what if you sold a computer to someone who had already signed up for certain sites and you then did the same as me , Again nothing to do with my case but it again shows there are big faults with the current ruling

 

[davos11]

This is more of a general need to know ,
This happened to me recently and although i now understand my problem it made me have more questions on the subject ,

Somebody mentioned the likes of a school/ college or maybe a workplaces , Obvioulsy these places have alot of staff , visitors, patrons etc .... how could one person know from the next who before or after them has done what on that computer or from that internet connection ?
What if you bought or sold a 2nd hand computer to somebody ,A computer they or you had already used to sign up for certain sites ?

Each person would be unaware of anything that had previously happened but could potentially lose winnings based on bonus abuse or fraudulent behaviour .

I always thought that a individual account , with individual details ,payment methods etc was enough for for a valid account ,But i lost my money as my Girlfriend who i do not live with had also used my laptop to make an account previously , this was not spotted on registration , Only when i won and came to make a withdrawal ,I was aware we had both used the computer to make an account but was unaware that was against the rules as we have done this many time previously with no problem ,

What is wrong with 1 person ( who can provide i'd , card details , utility bill etc ) having 1 account and another person have there own personal account to but they may sometimes use your computer as your either friends, relatives or partners , I don't see the abuse here ,Its still only one bonus per person , one account per person ..

Is the current system out of date in the current time of wireless and wi-fi connections aswell as laptops , tablets and smartphones , where one house may have up to 10 computers and even multiple internet connections.

Surely there is a line somewhere between ignorance and fraud !

 

[Googobucs]

simply misunderstood the rules ( due to not reading them )

Dude, I've only been here for 2 months and the one major thing I have learned is read the rules and understand them. If you don't then you need to chat with CS and ask what it means. If you still are not sure, don't play.

Which brings me to another question, Although far fetched what if you sold a computer to someone who had already signed up for certain sites and you then did the same as me , Again nothing to do with my case but it again shows there are big faults with the current ruling

Your IP address is assigned to you by you ISP. It is not part of the computer like the MAC address someone else mentioned previously. When you bring that computer into your home, your ISP will assign it a new IP.
When you bring your lap top to the library and use the wifi there, you will be assigned an IP by the library's ISP ( which could have been used by someone else.) Same thing with the airport, coffee shop.....
Its gets a lot more complicated than this but you get the idea. 1 person per household/location and it's stated clearly in the T&C. Yes, I do think this is fair and reasonable.

 

[davos11]

Ok thanks for your reply ,
i'm not talking about my case anymore as it has been explained ,
But as you stated in your last reply ,If somebody was given a duplicate I.P address at say a library ,airport, coffee shop,place of work etc and had no knowledge at all of what previous customers or patrons had done on there own computers , Does this still class as being fraud or bonus abuse ? Surely fraud requires intent ?
thanks

 

[davos11]

or even perhaps when people move houses etc... e.g student accomodation , were people come and go each year but will more than likely use the ISP provided by the landlord ?

 

[bigjohn]

You already have a thread going concerning this. You are not likely to find different answers here and you are probably going to catch some flack for cross posting.

These are questions that need to be brought up with the relevant casino before registering.

 

[dunover]

Ok thanks for your reply ,
i'm not talking about my case anymore as it has been explained ,
But as you stated in your last reply ,If somebody was given a duplicate I.P address at say a library ,airport, coffee shop,place of work etc and had no knowledge at all of what previous customers or patrons had done on there own computers , Does this still class as being fraud or bonus abuse ? Surely fraud requires intent ?
thanks

You sound far too interested in these matters.

 

[Jasminebed]

Best to make your own account on your own computer from your own home. If you live somewhere where multiple people share the internet, best to ask before depositing IMO.

If I play away from home, (like a hotel for example) I'll let the casino know it's me via chat.

 

[Nifty29]

Ok.

I'll say it for the 17th time since you've pretty much ignored the other 16.

The reason you lost your winnings was related to a BONUS....NOT because you and your gf have an account. The rule is ONE BONUS per IP, computer, etc......the casino does NOT have a problem with both of you having accounts, as they have left your account open and said you're welcome to play again.

Theses rules are industry standard. It's to prevent individuals creating an account for 47 different relatives and claiming 47 signup bonuses.....or fraudsters doing the same with a bunch of fake IDs.

Make sure you READ the rules BEFORE you play. What might be OK at one casino might not be OK at another. Mind you, if you read rules like you read the advice given in your other thread, then I'm probably wasting my breath.

 

[maxd]

@ the OP: please re-read the Forum Rules -- link is in my signature -- regarding cross-posting. I understand that you are upset but violating the forum rules in order to press your case is not the way to go.

You're welcome to file a PAB -- again, link in my sig -- if you want us to look into this for you. I caution you though: if you're trying to pull a fast one there will be repercussions.

 

[davos11]

jesus christ chaps , How many times have i said i am no longer asking questions related to my problem and that i understand i was at fault ......... I have said it in pretty much every message .

The questions i ask relate to faults in the shared i.p address problem and yes i am far to interested in this as in the future i could be out of pocket due to it , Considering my girlfriend lives somewhere where she has 1000s of different people visiting or staying in the guesthouses every year !!
The reason i keep asking is due to you not not answering the questions i've asked , you just continue to point the finger and tell me i'm in the wrong when i have already accepted it , It is not me no listening to what you have said its you not reading what i have said .

If anyone of you had answered what i had asked i would not be here now , I think its a pretty valid question , If you do not have the answer then that is fine but please stop repeatedly telling this was my fault or that was my fault as i already know and have accepted it

I was simply just questioning how that system works and pointing out some of the floors in it
The fact that non of us know the answers to the questions i have asked is surely a grey area as it can then lead to future problems or give any unjust casinos a chance to take back winnings .

If anyone could simply just answer the 2 below questions i would be very grateful and will zip my lid for good on here

1. Does anyone know if casinos store your i.p address in a a kind of database along with your email , home address , username etc ... When you create an account with them , And if so , then at what point in the process is it stored ?

For example if somebody made the same mistake as me and there were then 2 accounts made from one I.P address ,This player will never make a successful withdrawal as the account is fraudulent , But at what point will that player be notified of his/her mistake and have action taken against them ,Should it be on registration ,Withdrawal etc...


2.If you live in say a student accomodation were people come and go every year but will all use alot of duplicate I.P addresses even if they do not know each other , Or say a school , workplace , Guesthouses etc....

Your account could be closed due to fraud even though you could have no idea if anyone has made an account before you or not

I really no very little on this whole subject this is why i am asking .

I really do appreciate all the help but please only answer if you can provide answers for the above questions as its getting a bit silly now

 

[davos11]

P.S sorry for the cross thread posting , To be honest my personal problem was settled and people kept repeating themselves and it was getting silly so i tried to make a non personal thread just concerning the questions i had not to do with my personal complaint,

 

[wigan rl]

The thing i have a problem is if the op played with the deposit they put back in his account and won they would pay the winnings right so why not pay this?

If the gave him his deposit back and banned his account fine but letting him keep playing but taking the winnings doesn't sit right with me at all

 

[bigjohn]

The thing i have a problem is if the op played with the deposit they put back in his account and won they would pay the winnings right so why not pay this?

If the gave him his deposit back and banned his account fine but letting him keep playing but taking the winnings doesn't sit right with me at all

OK, one more time for you, it's a bonus issue. They will not pay you winnings under these circumstances if you play with a bonus.

And at the OP, ask the relevant casinos.

 

[Googobucs]

I will try to explain 1 last time. I've already given you some basic information abut how IP addresses are assigned.
You keep saying it's not about the T & C but it really is.

They actually give you examples of places where you will violate this term, usually specifically stating within the same home, a dormitory, library or other public location.

I'm not sure what you don't understand.

If you break this rule, they will assume you are trying to commit fraud until you call them and explain what happened. Just because you explained and everyone agrees you did not commit fraud but simply did not understand the rules (which you did not read) they are under no obligation to exempt you from the rule.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

or if you prefer the European saying: from Aristotle translated into Latin: nemo censetur ignorare legem (nobody is thought to be ignorant of the law)

 

[davos11]

Ok thankyou , I'm still not 100% sure i understand all of this but you did clear some stuff up , Would i be totally moronic to think that perhaps in the not to distant future that all bonus claiming players could perhaps be fraudulent / bonus abusers then as alot of people now live in flats , apartments and shared accomodation , Well in the city where i live and obviously school's , work places ,librarys etc... can all only have 1 account , People move around alot and have portable computers , be it laptop , tablet or smartphone , Are we slowly running out of I.Ps that are original / unused

Could you also give me your opinion on my first question to,

1. Does anyone know if casinos store your i.p address in a a kind of database along with your email , home address , username etc ... When you create an account with them , And if so , then at what point in the process is it stored ?

For example if somebody made the same mistake as me and there were then 2 accounts made from one I.P address ,This player will never make a successful withdrawal as the account is fraudulent , But at what point will that player be notified of his/her mistake and have action taken against them ,Should it be on registration ,Withdrawal etc...

 

[Nifty29]

jesus christ chaps , How many times have i said i am no longer asking questions related to my problem and that i understand i was at fault ......... I have said it in pretty much every message .

The questions i ask relate to faults in the shared i.p address problem and yes i am far to interested in this as in the future i could be out of pocket due to it , Considering my girlfriend lives somewhere where she has 1000s of different people visiting or staying in the guesthouses every year !!
The reason i keep asking is due to you not not answering the questions i've asked , you just continue to point the finger and tell me i'm in the wrong when i have already accepted it , It is not me no listening to what you have said its you not reading what i have said .

If anyone of you had answered what i had asked i would not be here now , I think its a pretty valid question , If you do not have the answer then that is fine but please stop repeatedly telling this was my fault or that was my fault as i already know and have accepted it

I was simply just questioning how that system works and pointing out some of the floors in it
The fact that non of us know the answers to the questions i have asked is surely a grey area as it can then lead to future problems or give any unjust casinos a chance to take back winnings .

If anyone could simply just answer the 2 below questions i would be very grateful and will zip my lid for good on here

1. Does anyone know if casinos store your i.p address in a a kind of database along with your email , home address , username etc ... When you create an account with them , And if so , then at what point in the process is it stored ?

For example if somebody made the same mistake as me and there were then 2 accounts made from one I.P address ,This player will never make a successful withdrawal as the account is fraudulent , But at what point will that player be notified of his/her mistake and have action taken against them ,Should it be on registration ,Withdrawal etc...


2.If you live in say a student accomodation were people come and go every year but will all use alot of duplicate I.P addresses even if they do not know each other , Or say a school , workplace , Guesthouses etc....

Your account could be closed due to fraud even though you could have no idea if anyone has made an account before you or not

I really no very little on this whole subject this is why i am asking .

I really do appreciate all the help but please only answer if you can provide answers for the above questions as its getting a bit silly now

FYI....it's not your place to tell members what they can or can't say and when. Only the moderators can do that.

1. IP info is stored at time of registration. Some casinos detect other accounts and deny registration.

If multiple accounts ARE allowed....such as in your case....it will allow it. If the restrictions pertain to BONUSES only, such as your case, it's up to the player to ensure other users haven't claimed the bonus.

2. The answer is common sense.

If the player reads the terms, they will see the shared environment restrictions. Hence, a sensible player would make sure that they do NOT:

A) Allow others to register with casinos on their computer
B) Register accounts on someone else's computer
C) Play or register on public computers

If you follow the golden rule of NEVER allowing others to use casinos on YOUR computer, you're golden.

If you buy a used computer, there is an inherent risk when it comes to casinos. It comes with the territory. The best way is to contact the casinos beforehand to get the all clear.

NEVER assume the rules will be the same at every casino....what one allows another may not.

To reiterate...almost NO casino allows multiple bonuses per IP etc....even per family regardless of location.

 

[davos11]

I looked on the sites T an C's but found no mention of this

"They actually give you examples of places where you will violate this term, usually specifically stating within the same home, a dormitory, library or other public location."

2.2 Conditions to Create an Account.

Accounts can only be created by players:

register personally with valid identification, address, contact email and personal telephone number.
18 years of age or older, in the case of Estonian players they must be over 21 years old.
registered under his/her own personal and correct name
registered under his/her correct personal address
registered under his/her correct email address
that have registered only one account (it is not allowed to register more than one account per person and IP address)
that are not classified as problem gamblers
who accept that our method of generating random numbers will determine the winner and that they accept the result of the games. Users agree and accept that our rules are the final authority to decide regulations and circumstances of the users' participation in MrCasinos, and that the Operator have the right to limit and/or refuse bets.

I mean if you look at these terms word for word then i'm not sure if even broke the terms , I have only 1 registered account in my name with them ,no others and i have only 1 account in my name at this I'P address .
I have an account and my girlfriend has an account , But i individually only have 1 account at 1 i.p address ,
And im struggling to find anything the bonus terms either but maybe i will in a minute

 

[albrco123]

Ok thankyou , I'm still not 100% sure i understand all of this but you did clear some stuff up , Would i be totally moronic to think that perhaps in the not to distant future that all bonus claiming players could perhaps be fraudulent / bonus abusers then as alot of people now live in flats , apartments and shared accomodation , Well in the city where i live and obviously school's , work places ,librarys etc... can all only have 1 account , People move around alot and have portable computers , be it laptop , tablet or smartphone , Are we slowly running out of I.Ps that are original / unused

Could you also give me your opinion on my first question to,

1. Does anyone know if casinos store your i.p address in a a kind of database along with your email , home address , username etc ... When you create an account with them , And if so , then at what point in the process is it stored ?

For example if somebody made the same mistake as me and there were then 2 accounts made from one I.P address ,This player will never make a successful withdrawal as the account is fraudulent , But at what point will that player be notified of his/her mistake and have action taken against them ,Should it be on registration ,Withdrawal etc...

I think you can be fairly sure that all Casino,s store IP addresses as they would be an invaluable tool to fight fraud

in your example the player should still be able to make a successful withdrawal as long as no T&C's have been broken such as claiming more than 1 bonus from the same IP address, if in doubt get confirmation from CS before claiming a bonus that you are o.k. to use it or avoid bonuses altogether.

T&C's don't usually restrict more than 1 person using an IP address to open/play an account they just restrict claiming multiple bonuses from the same IP

JMHO

Al

 

[davos11]

found it ,

200% First Deposit Terms and Conditions
- Only one 200% matching bonus (e.g. € 50 bonus on €25 deposit) will be issued per customer (multiple accounts will not qualify for additional bonuses).
- Maximum bet per spin is €9. If any spin or bet during the bonus is above €9, whole bonus and winnings will be forfeited.
- The maximum bonus which will be issued is €300.
- The bonus must be used to play at MrCasinos in our NetEnt casino games and can never be withdrawn directly as cash, unless turnover requirements are met.
- You may withdraw any or all of your non-bonus funds (deposited funds) after seven (7) days from your initial deposit, subject to a minimum € 50 cash out and with the stipulation that none of your funds (cash or bonus) have been utilized since initial deposit.
- When a player requests a withdrawal that includes money won through the use of bonus funds obtained they must first have played the total (cash + bonus) of those funds a minimum of x35 turnover.
- For example; (Deposit Amount (€ 25) + Bonus Amount (€ 50) = Sum of Funds (€ 75) x 35) = € 2625 that must be wagered before being eligible to make a withdrawal.
- Certain games contribute towards wagering requirement at a lower rate: 70% : Slots. 0% : All Table Games and Video Poker games.
- All MrCasinos games will be settled in accordance with our standard terms and conditions.
- MrCasinos reserves the right to withdraw this promotion at any time.
- These terms and conditions are subject to and are in addition to the general terms and conditions.

 

[davos11]

So i guess the important bits are these

18 years of age or older, in the case of Estonian players they must be over 21 years old.
registered under his/her own personal and correct name
registered under his/her correct personal address
registered under his/her correct email address
that have registered only one account (it is not allowed to register more than one account per person and IP address)


and


200% First Deposit Terms and Conditions
- Only one 200% matching bonus (e.g. € 50 bonus on €25 deposit) will be issued per customer (multiple accounts will not qualify for additional bonuses).

I don't know if they maybe just have not worded it correctly but it kinda looks like it says your not allowed to have more than ONE account PER person , that being ONE person having TWO accounts which is not the case here ,And if you take that and follow it on to ......

Only one 200% matching bonus (e.g. € 50 bonus on €25 deposit) will be issued per customer (multiple accounts will not qualify for additional bonuses).

Have i really broke the rules , I know other sites have things worded differently but this seems unclear and like you said different casinos have different rules , I'm probably clutching at straws here but its not very clear in that wording at least

 

[Googobucs]

(it is not allowed to register more than one account per person and IP address)

I have only 1 registered account in my name with them ,no others and i have only 1 account in my name at this I'P address .

It say 1 account per person AND IP address, not or.

I did not specifically look at the terms at this casino. Many do give examples. Again, it's not up to them to educate you on this. If you don't know what that means you need to ask. Now you know.

I only know because I have spent hours diligently reading and re-reading all the T & C at every place I play or consider playing.

 

[davos11]

But i have only registered 1 account per i.p address as per , "that have registered only one account (it is not allowed to register more than one account per person and IP address)"

In the terms they are speaking to you as an individual , So as an individual i have only registered 1 account per person and per i.p address
You the individual can only have one account per person and i.p , so i have done this as has my partner , we both have 1 account registered to one i.p address ,

It looks like its saying you the individual cannot have multiple accounts or accounts in different names registered at different I.P addresses

I know what other sites say , But this does not appear to , Or at least if it applies here to its not worded correctly which is technically the contract ,
To be fair its ambiguous and can be interpreted both ways which again is not clear
Are you getting your conclusion from what you think they are trying to say with there wording or what you think there saying based on what other sites would say as to me ( again probably due to the wording ) its unclear .