Winnings confiscation based on multiple accounts from same I.P or computer

davos11

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uk
mrcasinos.com non payment

After meeting all wagering requirements and sending off documentation m i got this message ,

"Hello,

We regret to inform you that we got notice from the payments and fraud department you have breached the terms and conditions of MrCasinos, found issuing multiple accounts abusing the bonus structure. By being found abusing our bonuses, your bonuses and winnings from any bonus funds have been removed from your account, however, you are still more than welcome to play with your deposited funds which have been left in your account for your discretion.

Regards,

MrCasinos Support "

I have only one account which i only just opened a few days ago , Its a new casino which i found by searching for Netent casinos via google as i enjoy the games and have found them all pretty reputable , The first time i requested a cash-out it failed due to not sending the docs , they already had my home address and email address etc from sign up and there was no problem then , So it seems the problem id with my bank card being linked to another account which is completely impossible as i had never even heard of the casino before and i use the same username and email address for all casinos and this would have been triggered when signing up for the account .

I'm still waiting for a reply from them but they have taken my funds already which at 600 euro is a very large amount for me ,And took many many hours of play to get through the play-through .
I also find it strange that they still want me to play there rather than closing my account if i'm a supposed abuser ,It was 1 welcome bonus with a large play-through that was met , In the terms i see no mention of not being allowed to play sister sites etc which would be the only thing i may have done as i play a lot of Netent games ,

Would really appreciate some feedback or help as i feel absolutely robbed at the moment and don't really know what to do , I can provide any info or details that may be required,
thanks alot
dave
 

Nifty29

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Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Well, you've been a member 5 years and still you're playing at casinos you find on Google.

How about the accredited list?

Sounds like you have a problem. Ask for the details of the other accounts they say you have, and PAB if they don't provide it.
 

davos11

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Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Location
uk
I was a member 5 years ago and only recently re-activated , I know some casinos are rogue but certain software usually has pretty sound sites , avoid RTG like the plague but Netent have always been great for me ,I'm still awaiting a reply from them , Which may take a while if ever ,
They have not provided a reason or at least a detailed reason as of yet .
My girlfriend has an account with them but its completely separate to mine , she lives at a separate address and has her own bank,card , email etc ..... ,
We our both members of alot of the same accounts and have never ever had this problem , surely that could not be the reason for the problem
thanks
 

rainmaker

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Hi,

Yeah it sounds a bit strange that they are offering you to continue playing with your deposit after they have confiscated your winnings.

As Nifty said you may want to consider filing a PAB.

However - MrCasinos is operated by Pololo Gaming Limited. This is the same company that operates Ocho casino and they won't discuss player cases:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/ocho-wont-discuss-player-cases.58568/

Google is not a good source to find new casinos.
 

Nifty29

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I was a member 5 years ago and only recently re-activated , I know some casinos are rogue but certain software usually has pretty sound sites , avoid RTG like the plague but Netent have always been great for me ,I'm still awaiting a reply from them , Which may take a while if ever ,
They have not provided a reason or at least a detailed reason as of yet .
My girlfriend has an account with them but its completely separate to mine , she lives at a separate address and has her own bank,card , email etc ..... ,
We our both members of alot of the same accounts and have never ever had this problem , surely that could not be the reason for the problem
thanks

If your girlfriend has EVER used her account on your computer then this WILL be the problem.

Only one bonus per IP address is allowed....standard practice.

The WR are rogue....35xDB and slots only counts 70% (nothing counts 100%)
 

davos11

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Location
uk
Thanks for the replies .
Am i screwed then , I have honestly never had this problem before , We are separate people , with separate addresses and banks etc ,
I think we were away when we both signed up so were on my laptop ,Surely they could have identified this when trying to create the 2nd account , even before depositing etc ... If it was just an i.p problem , I mean they even requested documentation from me which again is odd , And why are they now allowing my account to stay open, If i deposit again and win wont the same happen ? , Not that i'm going to .
thanks
 

Nifty29

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Thanks for the replies .
Am i screwed then , I have honestly never had this problem before , We are separate people , with separate addresses and banks etc ,
I think we were away when we both signed up so were on my laptop ,Surely they could have identified this when trying to create the 2nd account , even before depositing etc ... If it was just an i.p problem , I mean they even requested documentation from me which again is odd , And why are they now allowing my account to stay open, If i deposit again and win wont the same happen ? , Not that i'm going to .
thanks

It is sometimes OK to have an account for each person, but only ONE bonus can be claimed per IP address/computer/etc.

You can play, but not with any bonus that your girlfriend has taken ,and vice versa.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
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If I were you I'd contact their support, let them know that your GF also has an account and explain what you just said here - if you both opened both accounts using the same computer you might be SOL, but if you only played both accounts from the same computer it's different. But it's worth talking to them and explaining the situation - some casinos will give you a break if they believe there's been an honest mistake, but then others will just stick to their guns and give you no leeway at all.

Best to be honest about what happened though, you don't want to get your name on any fraudster database - if there is such a thing. ;)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I hardly think someone and their partner playing constitutes fraud to the level they are saying, and the fact that they say the player is welcome to carry on playing post confiscation means they don't either. More like they are trying to use a technicality to inflate their margins, the behaviour one might expect of a rogue outfit.

The vast majority of people are not tech savvy enough to realise that it's not just about being separate individuals as the terms suggest, but being aware of the many "false positive" alerts that can be thrown up by actions that on the surface, look OK and are not prohibited in the terms.

This "false positive" almost certainly started from registering on holiday, rather than at home. It's not just about the laptop either, no doubt a public connection was involved, and many people could have made the same mistake by registering an account at this casino group from the same location.

The safe way is to ALWAYS register from home, on your own PC connected via your own internet connection. Normally, you can then play from anywhere, but this is not always the case, a few casinos restrict where you can play from when away, and will confiscate winnings from such sessions.
 

Nifty29

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I hardly think someone and their partner playing constitutes fraud to the level they are saying, and the fact that they say the player is welcome to carry on playing post confiscation means they don't either. More like they are trying to use a technicality to inflate their margins, the behaviour one might expect of a rogue outfit.

The vast majority of people are not tech savvy enough to realise that it's not just about being separate individuals as the terms suggest, but being aware of the many "false positive" alerts that can be thrown up by actions that on the surface, look OK and are not prohibited in the terms.

This "false positive" almost certainly started from registering on holiday, rather than at home. It's not just about the laptop either, no doubt a public connection was involved, and many people could have made the same mistake by registering an account at this casino group from the same location.

The safe way is to ALWAYS register from home, on your own PC connected via your own internet connection. Normally, you can then play from anywhere, but this is not always the case, a few casinos restrict where you can play from when away, and will confiscate winnings from such sessions.

It's got nothing to do with "inflating margins" or "using technicalities".
You obviously haven't read the thread thoroughly.

It's about BONUSES. Just about EVERY casino I know has a "ONE BONUS per IP/Computer/school/etc/etc" rule and they ENFORCE it. Are you saying that pretty much ALL of the accredited casinos are ROGUE? :rolleyes:

The casino has said the OP can play again, as long as he and his GF don't claim the same bonus. It's a long way from "inflating margins with technicalities".

Instead of suspecting every online casino of being "out to get us", how about actually looking at the facts objectively before you rush in with the "they're rogue! they're ripping us off" tirades?
 

Mouche12

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It's got nothing to do with "inflating margins" or "using technicalities".
You obviously haven't read the thread thoroughly.

It's about BONUSES. Just about EVERY casino I know has a "ONE BONUS per IP/Computer/school/etc/etc" rule and they ENFORCE it. Are you saying that pretty much ALL of the accredited casinos are ROGUE? :rolleyes:

The casino has said the OP can play again, as long as he and his GF don't claim the same bonus. It's a long way from "inflating margins with technicalities".

Instead of suspecting every online casino of being "out to get us", how about actually looking at the facts objectively before you rush in with the "they're rogue! they're ripping us off" tirades?

IMHO VWM is informative and not exaggerating. And I agree that there is something fishy about allowing the OP to continue playing with his deposit while at the same time accusing him of fraud:confused: The OP said that he and his girlfriend play from different IPs, so where is the problem with these bonuses?
 

dunover

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IP is a highly suspect way of identifying people, especially the dynamic/floating IP's we get here in the UK. Your MAC address is much more specific if the site can identify it. It does seem odd the way the casino (although in the right about 'linked' accounts) has offered a resolution. I'd ask them to be more specific before continuing in case you win and face further issues.
 

Nifty29

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IMHO VWM is informative and not exaggerating. And I agree that there is something fishy about allowing the OP to continue playing with his deposit while at the same time accusing him of fraud:confused: The OP said that he and his girlfriend play from different IPs, so where is the problem with these bonuses?

Another non-reader.

The OP said the GF AND he played together on his laptop.

The rules at almost all casinos is one bonus per family IP ETC. If one doesn't like those rules, one shouldn't play. No good reading them afterwards.

I will repeat....it's about the BONUS not the account. You need to get past that.
 

aceking123

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Location
uk
Another non-reader.

The OP said the GF AND he played together on his laptop.

The rules at almost all casinos is one bonus per family IP ETC. If one doesn't like those rules, one shouldn't play. No good reading them afterwards.

I will repeat....it's about the BONUS not the account. You need to get past that.

yer kinda of agree with nifty here , anyway why not contact the casino in future & double check that its ok to have two accounts within a group or single casino , my mrs plays once in a blue moon & opened a account at one i still play at , i went into live chat & spoke to cs what had happened there was no issue with this as she does not use the same payment but thought i would double check as it could affect my account common sense realy.
 
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davos11

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Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Location
uk
Hi,
thanks for all the messages and help
I mailed the casino back and they are passing the messages on to the CEO to try and work something out ,
They did refund my original deposit back to my account to continue playing but obviously took the winnings .
I have asked them a few questions as its really confusing me ,

My girlfriend lives at a business address with an open connection and about 7 properties / households including guesthouses with guests obviously coming and going every week all using the same wireless connection
There are 3 households / building that we use regularly ,her place , parents place and business office all off the same connection but with different computers in different buildings .

So my question on this would be is it 1 customer/bonus per internet connection or household / building as for all i know a guest could have opened an account years ago without my knowledge using his / her own laptop from one of the guesthouses using are connection without my knowledge and i would then forfeit all my winnings .

My other question is , How soon does the casino know that 2 accounts have been opened using the same I.P address ? On registration or deposit or only on withdrawal attempt ? As i played for a good while before i made a cash-out and provided all details on registration as well as my i.d and docs for withdrawal .

It seems the rules are a bit old now in this day an age of wireless and laptops as a computer can constantly be on the move and using many different internet connections per day.

On another day i would have done everything exactly the same but i would have not been visiting her so we would have been on different computers and everything would have been fine , I still would have had to provided documents and had 1 account registered to me , my address and may credit card and i still would have had to have met play-through requirements etc ....

It just seems unfair , I realize i have made a mistake and the funny thing is ,they call it bonus abuse ,But they send you the same offers via email every week to tempt you to play ,they give it a different name but its the same 100% match bonus or free spins bonus ,It's like i have abused the system by accepting the sign up bonus but its ok for them to then send me the same bonus with a different name via email and then that would not be abuse ,feels kinda like entrapment ,maybe they were aware of the duplicate I.P problem from the off and continued to let me play as if i lose they win and if i win then i will not get my winnings anyway haha ,

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall in some of the meetings online casino staff have ,I'm sure there's alot of unethical stuff going on !

yesterday I was lucky enough to win some money on a football bet approx £150 , i transfered this money over to the casino side of the site ( a very reputable one ) , I was offered a 20% bonus on this that popped up on my screen as a slot loaded ,the terms were i need to play-through the deposit plus bonus 20x , So to get £30 free i needed to risk my £150 through £3600 worth of spinning slots before i my original £150 and the bonus £30 would be mine again and available for withdrawal ......
A 100% bonus then yes i could understand this , Obviously i did not accept it ,And of course the choice is there for you to decline or accept it just seemed like they were perhaps preying on problem gamblers or people who were not fully aware of rules ( we have all been there at one time or another ) ,

Anyway enough rambling , Thanks again for all your replies and help , I'll get back to you when i hear back from the CEO , Fingers crossed for good news
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
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Canada
The problem I have with this story is, (as far as I know) the OP hasn't discussed his girlfriend using the same computer as him with the casino. If they're claiming multi-accounting due to more than one account being opened from one IP address, why are they only confiscating the bonus winnings?

Most casinos tend to be a little more strict when it comes to fraud. The usually don't just confiscate winnings and then allow both accounts to remain open. The casino actually used the words "fraud" and "multi-accounting" in their correspondence.

Seems rather good natured for a casino to suspect a player of fraud and then let them continue playing.

If the casino suspects that one person opened two accounts and took the sign up bonus with both they should have closed both accounts.

If the casino suspects that two different people signed up from the same IP address and took the bonus they're within their right to confiscate the winnings but they shouldn't be using the words fraud or multi-accounting.

Should the OP be allowed to keep his winnings? I have no idea. But if the OP is really guilty of fraud I'm pretty sure he shouldn't be allowed to keep playing.
 

bigjohn

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Northeast Coastal USA
This brings up one of my pet peeves about how the majority of on-line casinos operate.

It seems they are always happy to accept your deposits even if they know you will have a problem cashing out via linked accounts or multiple players with same IP addresses. As long as you lose, it's okay.

Not all these problems are deliberate attempts to scam the casino.

There are a lot of potential problems they could identify upon registration, without you submitting any docs., but they choose not to.
 

davos11

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Location
uk
Just to mention incase i didn't already , I did email the casino back yesterday and mention that the duplicate account was my girlfriends not one i had made with false information and separate payment scheme, I told them i could provide all documents to prove this , Passport , bank card etc...
i told them we live apart , Different countries infact ,And i was visiting her at the time .

We both play slots often and often reccomend each other sites ,Mostly Netent casinos as we both like the games so if a new one pops up then we usually both try it , never any problems , But obviously i was staying with her this time around ,

She has a laptop and a desktop at home but we played on my laptop , She had a go and lost and i decided to make an account to , And this is the error we made , using my computer again to make my account , That one little thing there has cost me 600 euro , funny thing is i think her laptop was in the corner charging so if we had waited and used that it wouldn't be a problem and i would be as happy as larry ,But even though after reading up i have obviously made a mistake ,Does being a separate person , with separate address , separate bank , card , passport etc ... but using your partners laptop to open an account make you a fraudster or a bonus abuser ? ,

If she had picked up her laptop it would be fine but because she didn't its fraud , Seems very very harsh and also like you guys have mentioned they gave me my initial deposit back to continue playing with ,If i was to be emailed a promo in the future and win could they just take the money off me again ,

Like i said earlier alot of this feels like entrapment
 

dunover

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Just to mention incase i didn't already , I did email the casino back yesterday and mention that the duplicate account was my girlfriends not one i had made with false information and separate payment scheme, I told them i could provide all documents to prove this , Passport , bank card etc...
i told them we live apart , Different countries infact ,And i was visiting her at the time .

We both play slots often and often reccomend each other sites ,Mostly Netent casinos as we both like the games so if a new one pops up then we usually both try it , never any problems , But obviously i was staying with her this time around ,

She has a laptop and a desktop at home but we played on my laptop , She had a go and lost and i decided to make an account to , And this is the error we made , using my computer again to make my account , That one little thing there has cost me 600 euro , funny thing is i think her laptop was in the corner charging so if we had waited and used that it wouldn't be a problem and i would be as happy as larry ,But even though after reading up i have obviously made a mistake ,Does being a separate person , with separate address , separate bank , card , passport etc ... but using your partners laptop to open an account make you a fraudster or a bonus abuser ? ,

If she had picked up her laptop it would be fine but because she didn't its fraud , Seems very very harsh and also like you guys have mentioned they gave me my initial deposit back to continue playing with ,If i was to be emailed a promo in the future and win could they just take the money off me again ,

Like i said earlier alot of this feels like entrapment

I think Nifty's point really needs hammering home here - THE TERMS WILL PROCLUDE MULTIPLE BONUSES PER HOUSEHOLD/PC. By restoring the account to cash-only and refunding the deposit they have put you back to square one, whereby you can start again cash-only with no WR or sulk and take the deposit as a cash-out.
You can get bogged down in semantics about who-said-what? but the casino has treated you fairly, in fact as I said last time unusually fairly. There is a reason for the casino rules, because from their point of view if the rule wasn't there you'd have everybody claiming multiple bonuses and then saying 'it was my brother's/sister's/GF's/mum's/dad/uncle's/aunt's/cousin's/gerbil's/cat's account and not mine'....

You say you accidentally fell foul of this, but whether you prove to the casino that the accounts are different people and addresses is irrelevant. You used the same PC and breached the terms. If the casino had to investigate all the 'proof' every time this happened, they'd be bogged down forever. You've been treated fairly, no valid beef.
 

davos11

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Apr 26, 2008
Location
uk
To be fair i doubt my budgie would have a bank account or valid i.d ..... , I see your point but each account has to have the required documents to withdraw ,So you cant just pretend to be this person or that person you have to provide photographic evidence, a utility bill and your depositing card as proof of who you are ,Which of course we can do .

Again , I see my mistake and obviously i am to blame for this ,But in the grand scheme of things we are separate people, we can provide separate documents and we do live in separate places , everything was separate apart from we happened to use my laptop ,This was bad luck on our behalf as at another time or another day this would not have happened , Also i'm positive on multiple occasions we have done the same on different sites and there has never been a problem.

I don't think this is a question of fraud or bonus abuse etc... Its simply a loophole to not have to pay us
As you know bonuses mean nothing, there is nothing special about a match bonus ,Alot of casinos will email you 1 a day in order to get you to play , They probably prefer you to play with promo money as if you win early on you have massive playthrough to undertake were as without a bonus they would be yours to run with ,

We only play small stakes with small deposits and its more for fun so having a match bonus means we can usually play for longer even if we know in the long run you'd probably win more by playing without.
I think our initial deposit was 25 euro so we were hardly abusing the system when you can get a few thousand matched in the promo.

Again , Rules are rules , If i messed up then its my fault ,My point is where they aware of the duplicate I.P issue when i registered , Could they have sorted the problem then ,I still would have played without a promo .Or was it simply a no lose situation for them and indeed anyone else who has had this problem.
 

davos11

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uk
Also i know you say "i have been treated fairly " , I guess based on the rules and terms they have set then you could say that but you can then question if those rules are fair ,biased or even immoral ,

As with the duplicate accounts mentioned , This was obviously the problem that caused me to forfeit my money but when was it discovered , On some sites out there you maybe have not played for a while and forget you are a member to , You sign up , enter your details and then get a message saying this email is registered or this payment method is already registered , So they obviously keep a record of these things , And these particular ones i mentioned trigger right away on registration ,So it makes me wonder if the same thing applies with I.P address to ,

Believe me i would have much preferred this to happen as it takes a hell of a long time playing 50p a spin to get through a £2400 playthrough haha .

would it really make that much difference which computer was being used ? I mean i have 2 laptops , a desktop , an Iphone and a tablet so i have different computers i could use there to make multiple accounts and according to those rules that would be fine , is that right ? as like you said i could pretend to be my nan or my Yorkshire terrier .

Just seems the whole thing needs a big rethink as everyone has a computer or 2 or 3 nowadays and everyone uses multiple internet connections or wi-fi and it seems its alot easier for this type of thing to happen and its only going to be the casinos that benefit from it
 

dunover

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To be fair i doubt my budgie would have a bank account or valid i.d ..... , I see your point but each account has to have the required documents to withdraw ,So you cant just pretend to be this person or that person you have to provide photographic evidence, a utility bill and your depositing card as proof of who you are ,Which of course we can do .

Again , I see my mistake and obviously i am to blame for this ,But in the grand scheme of things we are separate people, we can provide separate documents and we do live in separate places , everything was separate apart from we happened to use my laptop ,This was bad luck on our behalf as at another time or another day this would not have happened , Also i'm positive on multiple occasions we have done the same on different sites and there has never been a problem.

I don't think this is a question of fraud or bonus abuse etc... Its simply a loophole to not have to pay us As you know bonuses mean nothing, there is nothing special about a match bonus ,Alot of casinos will email you 1 a day in order to get you to play , They probably prefer you to play with promo money as if you win early on you have massive playthrough to undertake were as without a bonus they would be yours to run with ,

We only play small stakes with small deposits and its more for fun so having a match bonus means we can usually play for longer even if we know in the long run you'd probably win more by playing without.
I think our initial deposit was 25 euro so we were hardly abusing the system when you can get a few thousand matched in the promo.

Again , Rules are rules , If i messed up then its my fault ,My point is where they aware of the duplicate I.P issue when i registered , Could they have sorted the problem then ,I still would have played without a promo .Or was it simply a no lose situation for them and indeed anyone else who has had this problem.

No, it really isn't. The term was there BEFORE you deposited. You got your money back, you lost nothing. That you wasted your time meeting a WR on an invalid bonus is down to you. Sorry, but learn from this.
 

davos11

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uk
Do you work for them or something ?

Again , Again , Again i know i made a mistake and in doing so have lost out so you don't need to keep repeating this ,My point is how soon are they aware of I.P duplications ,With email or credit cards etc they seem to know right away and act upon it ,My question is they can use this as a tool to there advantage as the customer is then in a no win situation ,I could have deposited 5 or 6 times , all losers before making a winning deposit only to be told i had a duplicate I.P account , So that account could only ever be a losing account ,Obviously i was not aware i was breaking the rules but to what extent should that punishment be ,Luckily i won /lost first time around and luckily i am small stakes player or somebody could be losing 100s or 1000s unaware they will never be able to make a successful cashout even if they win ,

Also if i had whipped out my ipad and set up an account with that instead of using the same laptop would that have been a problem ?
Does the simple task of using one laptop/desktop/phone/tablet make the difference between a fraudster or bonafide player ,
yes rules are rules but in this day and age those rules have not changed , When everyone had a desktop before laptops and had dial up connections this was all fine ,Most houses probably did have 1 computer ,Now alot of houses may have 5-10 computers if were counting phones etc ..

I don't want to argue and i am the one at fault here , Just seems that the only thing we our guilty of is not turning on a 2nd computer which we could have done easily , And it seems very harsh that because we dint we our somehow fraudulent , we have not tried to con or deceive ,We have separate accounts , houses and i.d's , Separate funding , the playthorugh was met and after hours of playing its gone on a small technicality
 

dunover

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Do you work for them or something ?

Again , Again , Again i know i made a mistake and in doing so have lost out so you don't need to keep repeating this ,My point is how soon are they aware of I.P duplications ,With email or credit cards etc they seem to know right away and act upon it ,My question is they can use this as a tool to there advantage as the customer is then in a no win situation ,I could have deposited 5 or 6 times , all losers before making a winning deposit only to be told i had a duplicate I.P account , So that account could only ever be a losing account ,Obviously i was not aware i was breaking the rules but to what extent should that punishment be ,Luckily i won /lost first time around and luckily i am small stakes player or somebody could be losing 100s or 1000s unaware they will never be able to make a successful cashout even if they win ,

Also if i had whipped out my ipad and set up an account with that instead of using the same laptop would that have been a problem ?
Does the simple task of using one laptop/desktop/phone/tablet make the difference between a fraudster or bonafide player ,
yes rules are rules but in this day and age those rules have not changed , When everyone had a desktop before laptops and had dial up connections this was all fine ,Most houses probably did have 1 computer ,Now alot of houses may have 5-10 computers if were counting phones etc ..

I don't want to argue and i am the one at fault here , Just seems that the only thing we our guilty of is not turning on a 2nd computer which we could have done easily , And it seems very harsh that because we dint we our somehow fraudulent , we have not tried to con or deceive ,We have separate accounts , houses and i.d's , Separate funding , the playthorugh was met and after hours of playing its gone on a small technicality

Please don't be facetious - just because people don't unequivocally support you it doesn't mean they work for casinos.

troll.jpg
 

davos11

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Apr 26, 2008
Location
uk
I was only joking about , I appreciate any help or info , my point is you were focusing on a point that was already made and understood but ignoring my other points which were the only ones i was interested in , Anything damning to me you made a point of or provided information about but anything were i asked questions of the casinos or their practises you made no comment on , My point about losing accounts and being aware of multiple duplicate I.P's etc ...

The more i look into stuff about these casinos the more it puts me off playing them to be honest ,I'm sorry if i came across trollish , I was genuinely joking
 
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