What the hell 3dice

Swede

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PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
May 1, 2006
Location
Anaon
The table games of 3dice has to have some sort of magic payout to them. I will recite a few that Vegas, the rest of the world, me(and my math professor whos' probably rolling over in his grave), mathematicians around the globe and any other person with their eyes open at least halfsies would react to:

3dice stats table games:

Pai Gow: 1442/3906 including ties = 36% winning hands

Utopia if you ask any distinguished player.

Three-Card Poker = 76% return including side bets, disregarding bet size

Baccarat quickie = 84/196 only betting banker

Disgusting enough with a return of 47%

These are even-money games or close thereof, my results playing 3dice slots are equally disgusting. I will present those later if you will.

Good Luck, Swede

Added just now. dealer BJ streak:

20, 20, 21, BJ, 21, 20, 21, BJ, 21. I don't care where you're from and whom you believe in, this is an anomaly beyond. Speaking as a mathematician, I am ready to barf(pardon my french and illiteracy).
 
had the same experience as you, unreal low payouts...I stopped playing real money at 3dice

Especially the blackjack, don't get me started on 3dice's blackjack, I play blackjack every day for hours and hours at brick and motor and online and have NEVER and I mean NEVER seen results like I saw at 3dice for LOW stakes lol lol lol..and I am talking about millions of hands in my blackjack career.
 
hey but they have Great Customer support an Quick payouts an Chat an Free Tourneys:mad:

what more could ya want for your money:D

Babblefish:eek:

the above is the excuse that alot use when they have lost


I am in no way making fun at yall cept the Babblefish inside joke

Cindy;)
 
Dagmnabbit, I aint's gots no wish of that(read with a southern - 12 tooth accent)

And babeldem or not, this sucks arse(continuing right now).

A lovely 23% to grace my looooosing streak, what the motherbfgdbfxgbxfgbfg are these ngjdngbjdnnjdnbvj doing?

hey but they have Great Customer support an Quick payouts an Chat an Free Tourneys:mad:

what more could ya want for your money:D

Babblefish:eek:

the above is the excuse that alot use when they have lost


I am in no way making fun at yall cept the Babblefish inside joke

Cindy;)

BTW, here's a new thingy for you to bable:

Jag eerr muflo en riktig nesdi svensk oorph
 
Dagmnabbit, I aint's gots no wish of that(read with a southern - 12 tooth accent)

And babeldem or not, this sucks arse(continuing right now).

A lovely 23% to grace my looooosing streak, what the motherbfgdbfxgbxfgbfg are these ngjdngbjdnnjdnbvj doing?



BTW, here's a new thingy for you to bable:

Jag eerr muflo en riktig nesdi svensk oorph

lmao if gave me this what ever the Fluck it means
Back translation (es -> en -> es):
Haga punta el muflo del eerr en oorph del svensk del nesdi del riktig

if that is cussing please forgive me
by the way can you whistle thru them 12 teeth

Cindy
 
20, 20, 21, BJ, 21, 20, 21, BJ, 21. I don't care where you're from and whom you believe in, this is an anomaly beyond. Speaking as a mathematician, I am ready to barf(pardon my french and illiteracy).
Hate to say it but this is old news...many of us have been around and around about the card games, and even got a thread somewhere on how truly bad it is.

.
 
OK, can someone post the odds of that progression of hands happening?

20, 20, 21, BJ, 21, 20, 21, BJ, 21

I dont play BJ or any card game online as I cant trust ANY software to be 100% random (Ive played at a land casino a few times for entertainment ONLY because I can see the actual cards dealt with my own eyes). With slots, at least I KNOW its not random and I know in advance that Im gonna get screwed :D

Even if I was dealt those hands as a player I would be suspicious, although if it really IS random then anything is possible. The same lottery numbers CAN be drawn 2 weeks in a row - its extremely unlikely - but its possible.
 
Swede,

The returns are lousy by any standards though, with the exception of paigow, there are too few stats to make a judgment. By the way, do you mean that the 1442 hands includes ties or was it the 3906? If it were the latter, we may have to know the number of ties as it is of quite some significance especially in such a game. If this was included in the 1442 hands, I think Enzo may have to check this out as near 4000 hands should yield a more even result.

For Baccarat, again I would like to know the ratio of hands for Banker vs Player ie taking out the pushes. Around 200 hands is not really significant but if the player streaks vastly outnumber the banker streaks then I wouldnt touch the game. I also bet exclusively on Banker and other than MG (which also has not been kind to me recently), it is very normal to see player streaks of 6-7 hands over every 100 hands or so. I have seen this at Rival, RTG and Crypto. The worst one was losing 11 hands at RTG and 10 at Crypto. I have never encountered a winning streak at Banker for more than 8 hands at any of these software and that was only once at the same RTG that I lost 11 hands. For those who know the game, the Banker bet has a slight advantage so normally there should be slightly more and longer Banker streaks than Player streaks. That is also the reason a 5% commission is charged for Banker winning bets.
 
Hi Swede,

First off, I appreciate that a bad run is less fun than a good one. I can understand the beneficial effects of venting, and I know for sure that letting those emotions out is a lot better than stacking them up. Know that our staff is trained to be as supportive as possible -within reason - and that they are always there for you if you need them.

I also know however that strong emotions tend to get in the way of analytical thinking, and might for example lead a mathematician to look at the numbers from a slightly skewed point of view. Even the greatest minds suffer this problem and was it not Einstein who later on admitted that the cosmological constant he added to the original relativity theory was the biggest mistake he ever made - driven by his emotional inability to accept the consequences of it not being there.

I don't know whether or not statistics is your particular math specialty - but even if it isn't I'm sure you are aware of the basic rules when dealing with sampled data. One of the basic rules - and the one that you seem to have overlooked - is that the statisticus cannot choose his samples - you can take all the data - or you can take random samples - but you cant pick a specific run and draw your conclusions on that if you have more complete data available. This clearly is tainting the results and driven by the urge to find a 'cosmological constant' that simply isn't there.

It would be easy for me to pick runs from your history that are equally long and in the opposite end of the result spectrum. I wont do that tho - but I would be happy to post your lifetime stats on the games you mention (just % - not amounts) and give the users of this forum the information they need to form a correct opinion. With the information you have provided all that can be mathematically deducted is that you had a single bad run.

If you take yourself serious as a mathematician, and if you respect this form for its open nature then I'm sure you'll have no problems with me posting that information ?

Kindest Regards,

Enzo
 
Enzo's proposal seems fair Swede. If you agree, how about posting the results for Paigow Poker for analysis first. Thousands of hands have been played so they do bear some significance.
 
The table games of 3dice has to have some sort of magic payout to them. I will recite a few that Vegas, the rest of the world, me(and my math professor whos' probably rolling over in his grave), mathematicians around the globe and any other person with their eyes open at least halfsies would react to:

3dice stats table games:

Pai Gow: 1442/3906 including ties = 36% winning hands

??? The chance of winning a hand in pai gow poker is only 29%. Tie is 41%.

Not sure what you are talking about?

Three-Card Poker = 76% return including side bets, disregarding bet size

Utterly meaningless. If I play 1,000,000 hands at $1 and 100 hands at $10,000, how useful are my aggregate returns? They're not useful at all.

And sidebets suck.

Baccarat quickie = 84/196 only betting banker

Disgusting enough with a return of 47%

That's a 21% chance. Not even unusual.

20, 20, 21, BJ, 21, 20, 21, BJ, 21. I don't care where you're from and whom you believe in, this is an anomaly beyond. Speaking as a mathematician, I am ready to barf(pardon my french and illiteracy).

That's about a 1 in 50,000 event. Which is not unusual, especially given that it's a pattern looked for after the fact. 'Patterns' can be defined as anything - win/win/win/win/win, lose/win/lose/win, whatever, and with so many possible things for players to whine about, a mildly unusual (1 in 50,000) event is going to happen on a regular basis.
 
The same lottery numbers CAN be drawn 2 weeks in a row - its extremely unlikely - but its possible.

Well it is possible, but the odds of the same six correct numbers coming up at random again are 5,400,000,000,000 to one :eek2:
 
I'll be fair here, I read the audit 3dice got for their blackjack game by a respected member of this forum I think Eliot Jacobson...I still have it somewhere on my computer if anyone wants to read it...

I do remember one line in the report that struck me as odd..

The games tend to be extremely streaky

Also I couldn't understand why when you had a 10 or 11 the next card being a Ace or 10 was MUCH lower then when the dealer had a 10 or 11 :rolleyes:

Enzo is right in his post you remember bad streaks much more then the good ones it's just I've never seen blackjack at brick and motor/online that I get it seems EVERY time at 3dice. bah :rolleyes:

audit was from like a year ago so...not sure if it is still accurate.

edit: Here is the audit so no one thinks I'm crazy - If 3dice does not want it public just PM me and I'll take it down
**snip** [Max says: player info revealed, please repost a version that does not.]
 
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Enzo, that audit is hosted on your 3Dice servers, and I just realized that it has the full name of the player who originally commissioned it in big letters right at the top. Maybe an oversight, but can you edit it please (the audit, not Dark Mage's link)?
 
Enzo, that audit is hosted on your 3Dice servers, and I just realized that it has the full name of the player who originally commissioned it in big letters right at the top. Maybe an oversight, but can you edit it please (the audit, not Dark Mage's link)?
So does he give people's credit card information out, sell it, a man of integrity. That is the 6th version 4 month's after the fact and Eliot Jacobson's second 180. What an industry!
 
Thank you Max. :thumbsup:
 
Hi Swede,

First off, I appreciate that a bad run is less fun than a good one. I can understand the beneficial effects of venting, and I know for sure that letting those emotions out is a lot better than stacking them up. Know that our staff is trained to be as supportive as possible -within reason - and that they are always there for you if you need them.

I also know however that strong emotions tend to get in the way of analytical thinking, and might for example lead a mathematician to look at the numbers from a slightly skewed point of view. Even the greatest minds suffer this problem and was it not Einstein who later on admitted that the cosmological constant he added to the original relativity theory was the biggest mistake he ever made - driven by his emotional inability to accept the consequences of it not being there.

I don't know whether or not statistics is your particular math specialty - but even if it isn't I'm sure you are aware of the basic rules when dealing with sampled data. One of the basic rules - and the one that you seem to have overlooked - is that the statisticus cannot choose his samples - you can take all the data - or you can take random samples - but you cant pick a specific run and draw your conclusions on that if you have more complete data available. This clearly is tainting the results and driven by the urge to find a 'cosmological constant' that simply isn't there.

It would be easy for me to pick runs from your history that are equally long and in the opposite end of the result spectrum. I wont do that tho - but I would be happy to post your lifetime stats on the games you mention (just % - not amounts) and give the users of this forum the information they need to form a correct opinion. With the information you have provided all that can be mathematically deducted is that you had a single bad run.

If you take yourself serious as a mathematician, and if you respect this form for its open nature then I'm sure you'll have no problems with me posting that information ?

Kindest Regards,

Enzo

First of all I have to say I do not play at 3dice so I have no personal experience of the software and can not make any judgment on the stats provided.

Certainly cherry picking statistical samples can be misleading but so can presenting overall return as evidence of a fair game.
What we really need to form an informed opinion is to know how often these streaks occur whether for the house or the player and if it is statistically significant.

(this is 3dice non specific)
I have no doubt that slots have manufactured streaks inbuilt to the overall return a player will receive and that operators have more control over return than is ever admitted on these boards so I consider it plausible at least that table games may not play as advertised at all times.


Somewhat off topic;
A Cosmological constant is still very much in play and Einsteins biggest mistake may yet be he admitted he was wrong about it.;)
(I know you love your physics Enzo, sorry for mini derail)
 
Here's some food for thought:

Can you even get a "true" blackjack game online?

The reason I ask is that even though the slots "casinos" here in PA offer electronic blackjack, it's not as if you're getting a true blackjack game with the appropriate expected HA, depending on the decks/rules of the game. They are setup to pay out just the same as regular slot machine, with about the same payout %....and we're talking about 90-91% as apposed to the 98+% you'd expect from a "real" blackjack game..It'd be interesting to see the overall payout report for not only 3dice's blackjack, but for other software, as well. For online casinos to group all table games in together and publish an overall payout % is just....well, you decide. I'd love for online casinos to break it down to each individual table game...
 
Unfucking believable, I don't have clue who the dude is that Enzo gave my personal information to. Obviously, that dude is not the only one as I have received correspondences just this morning that 3 other people (2 I know, 1 I do not). Nevermind that Bryan took the real audit down in 10 minutes which Enzo was right there.

Enzo, you leave me no choice, heads up, and I have been advised by counsel to exit this forum.
 
Counsel?

what?

I'm sorry - I can't quite wrap my head around all this - because I must have missed some serious pieces.

I can say that I have had some good wins and bad losses at 3dice - but the customer service IS tremendous - and the freebies/tourneys etc. are a ton of fun.

I'm not a mathematician, I either win or I don't.

But --- you guys - I'm not sure what is going on here - and it sounds very dark right now.

Just as a side note - Enzo has always treated me with respect and I believe honesty. If there was something done, I'm going to go out on a limb here - I'm sure it wasn't done with evil intent.

at least I sincerely hope my belief is correct - and I'm sorry for popping my nose in - where it probably doesn't belong.

WW
 
Almost the exact same topic is here with what Swede was saying. you may want to have a read off these posts as well.


https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/no-more-3dice-for-me.27220/

this exact topic has come up quite a few times over the last year or so. I to felt I wasn't getting a fair game and got both Bryan and max to look into it for me and they confirmed it looked legit, needless to say I havent played at 3dice since.
 
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Counsel?

what?

I'm sorry - I can't quite wrap my head around all this - because I must have missed some serious pieces.

I can say that I have had some good wins and bad losses at 3dice - but the customer service IS tremendous - and the freebies/tourneys etc. are a ton of fun.

I'm not a mathematician, I either win or I don't.

But --- you guys - I'm not sure what is going on here - and it sounds very dark right now.

Just as a side note - Enzo has always treated me with respect and I believe honesty. If there was something done, I'm going to go out on a limb here - I'm sure it wasn't done with evil intent.

at least I sincerely hope my belief is correct - and I'm sorry for popping my nose in - where it probably doesn't belong.

WW



Nope, something else has gone on here, I was not quick enough to pick it up.
 
Here's some food for thought:

Can you even get a "true" blackjack game online?

The reason I ask is that even though the slots "casinos" here in PA offer electronic blackjack, it's not as if you're getting a true blackjack game with the appropriate expected HA, depending on the decks/rules of the game. They are setup to pay out just the same as regular slot machine, with about the same payout %....and we're talking about 90-91% as apposed to the 98+% you'd expect from a "real" blackjack game..It'd be interesting to see the overall payout report for not only 3dice's blackjack, but for other software, as well. For online casinos to group all table games in together and publish an overall payout % is just....well, you decide. I'd love for online casinos to break it down to each individual table game...

Obviously you can only ever have an electronic approximation of a real World system but here is the deal so to speak.
All game returns should have there return dictated by the paytable and nothing else.

For as closer game of real World Blackjack as possible we should have a virtual deck rather than the RNG just returning a number that represents a particular card, this is lazy and bad programming but it may well exist in some software just as weighting of slot reels exists.

If I were programming a game of Single deck Blackjack I would create a virtual deck that is virtually shuffled to try and best replicate real World Blackjack.
I will show how that is done in very simple terms because if I were to explain everything fully I would need to write code give a crash course in programming and give lengthy explanations beside each piece of code.

First I need to create a deck of 52 cards.
You could do this by simply having a variable "deck"(52) that contained all 52 possible values of a deck of cards.
(let's not worry about about Aces 1 or 11 or how to differentiate between J or Q and suits it is not relevant to this)

So I decide
deck(1)=1 (ace), deck(2)=2, deck(3)=3, deck(4)=4, deck(5)=5, deck(6)=6, deck(7)=7, deck(8)=8, deck(9)=9, deck(10)=10, deck(11)=10, deck(12)=10, deck(13)=10 *note 11 is Jack, 12 is Q, 13 is K but all value 10 in BJ.

*New suit

deck(14)=1 (ace), deck(15)=2, deck(16)=3, deck(17)=4, deck(18)=5, deck(19)=6,deck(20)=7, deck(21)=8, deck(22)=9, deck(23)=10, deck(24)=10, deck(25)=10, deck(26)=10

and so on until all 52 values have been assigned to our variable named "deck"

Now from here, as I explained, you could just have your RNG generate a number from 1 to 52 to deal a card but this is not very satisfactory.

I want to have a virtual deck that is shuffled so what I need to do is move the values in "deck" around.

To do this I can get Two random numbers from my RNG from 1 to 52 and swap the corresponding values in my deck.
So for example my RNG generates 6 and 23 so we take the value deck(6)=6 and place it into the value deck(23) so that deck(23) now =6 and not 10 but also deck(6) will now hold deck(23) old value of 10.
We have now shuffled 2 cards in our deck.
This process can be repeated many Thousands of times a second so a good shuffle can be easily achieved.
We then deal from the top of our virtual deck.
This system will give a closer approximation of real World Blackjack and is even a good way to make better use of a pseudo RNG because you should also randomize how long the deck is shuffled for.

For Two decks we would simply extend our variable range to deck(104)

Hope that gives some basic insight into how a fair online game of Blackjack may work.
 
Obviously you can only ever have an electronic approximation of a real World system but here is the deal so to speak.
All game returns should have there return dictated by the paytable and nothing else.

Which was precisely my question....I wasn't questioning the fairness of it, just the payout %...
 

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