Virtual VS bsilva028 : split from the Virtual Probation thread

[Cleveland]

The purpose of the PAB in this incident isn't so much for you to get paid but it's to get a better picture of virtual. Going through the PAB process shows Max a number of things I'm sure including, how open, and forth coming they are, how quick they are in answering his questions, how smooth is the process, and more importantly how clear and concise is the evidence against the players (namely you).

In a case like this it's hard to simple take someone's word, especially when I know there is suppose to be "evidence" that exist. As for as I know the casino isn't allowed to disclose all of the evidence to Max unless a PAB is on the table.

It strikes me as odd that you don't wish to PAB. You care enough about this thread and this thread's purpose to have multiple post in it, but you won't PAB? I forget if you're only allowed a certain amount, but perhaps Max could allow a freebie due to the nature of this thread / and incident?

It's not like the PAB is a long, hard, tedious project on the part of the player......if anything that's what it is for Max, not the player. I'm really not getting it? It's like you want to keep the casino's hands tied. They made the claim why not allow them to back it up with proof? I'm sorry I'm all about the evidence and proof. It's really confusing the hell out of me. We are going in circles about this, when something that is suppose to be evidence is sitting in the next room.....but nope, let's not get it.


......................................................


And for what it's worth the rep said the $ 80.00 was back in the 2008 during which time the communication / information about Portugal being unable to cash in was advised to the player. All of which is still a mute point until a PAB is on the table.

Is there a fear of the casino's evidence perhaps being really well faked? If someone had evidence against me please prove it. I guess it's in my nature but if evidence exist I want to see it, or want it shown to a neutral party. Especially if I'm against something....the something being virtual.

 

[bsilva028]

The purpose of the PAB in this incident isn't so much for you to get paid but it's to get a better picture of virtual. Going through the PAB process shows Max a number of things I'm sure including, how open, and forth coming they are, how quick they are in answering his questions, how smooth is the process, and more importantly how clear and concise is the evidence against the players (namely you).

In a case like this it's hard to simple take someone's word, especially when I know there is suppose to be "evidence" that exist. As for as I know the casino isn't allowed to disclose all of the evidence to Max unless a PAB is on the table.

It strikes me as odd that you don't wish to PAB. You care enough about this thread and this thread's purpose to have multiple post in it, but you won't PAB? I forget if you're only allowed a certain amount, but perhaps Max could allow a freebie due to the nature of this thread / and incident?

It's not like the PAB is a long, hard, tedious project on the part of the player......if anything that's what it is for Max, not the player.


......................................................


And for what it's worth the rep said the $ 80.00 was back in the 2008 during which time the communication / information about Portugal being unable to cash in was advised to the player. All of which is still a mute point until a PAB is on the table.

Is there a fear of the casino's evidence perhaps being really well faked? If someone had evidence against me please prove it. I guess it's in my nature but if evidence exist I want to see it, or want it shown to a neutral party. Especially if I'm against something....the something being virtual.

the previous e-mail that i received before it was deleted, so i can´t prove anything by that,however, i already have 3 more spams today, and i am sure that i will get more, this time are saved, and will be saved more that i can receive, i am also waiting by neteller sent me the statement since the begining, and i must also contact the bank that i was using in that time, to check if i can get something of 2008 also, like that bank account no longer exists, and already has more than 5 years, i dont know if its possible or not, i must ask them 1st, but banks does not works at weekends.

from pab i only remember some rules not all, because since 2010 or 2011 that i dont make none, because since that time that i played only in the casinos that are acredited, or, when they are not acredited, they are considered very good 2 go, and i had no problems

edit: since 1 hour ago until now its no longer 3 e-mails from them, its 5.

 

[Cleveland]

Maybe you're receiving so many emails from them because multiple accounts with the casino are setup using that email addy

Sorry just kidding as I'm all talked out. Your case up to you how you want to handle it.

 

[bsilva028]

Maybe you're receiving so many emails from them because multiple accounts with the casino are setup using that email addy

Sorry just kidding as I'm all talked out. Your case up to you how you want to handle it.

well the whole group are 17 casinos, if they say i had 40 its 2 dot something accounts in each casino of the group lol
so i must save (oh well 40 accounts, or probably more, 17 e-mails in each account i must save 17*40 = 680)

 

[gagamel]

I don`t think bsilva is a fraudster, except he his goony what I don`t believe.
He told us his experience with a bad casino group and the casino shot back. Since this On Probation started a shitstorm covered the group.
Maybe they see with bsilva a chance to stand in a better light.
I believe bsilva and hope that he is honest with us.
A defendant is not guilty until his guilt is evidenced.

 

[bsilva028]

I don`t think bsilva is a fraudster, except he his goony what I don`t believe.
He told us his experience with a bad casino group and the casino shot back. Since this On Probation started a shitstorm covered the group.
Maybe they see with bsilva a chance to stand in a better light.
I believe bsilva and hope that he is honest with us.
A defendant is not guilty until his guilt is evidenced.

and the answer that was waiting by the rep was:

pm your username, but noo

the rep, without ask anything has shuted out a lot of things, how does she knew my username? due to my phisical location also? lol

 

[gagamel]

and the answer that was waiting by the rep was:

pm your username, but noo

the rep, without ask anything has shuted out a lot of things, how does she knew my username? due to my phisical location also? lol

Sorry, don`t understand what you want to say with this post.

 

[bsilva028]

Sorry, don`t understand what you want to say with this post.

virtualace rep has said that i had multple accounts, that i had claimed multiple free chips, etc.

1st of all like i said lots of times before, i dont have it, and 2nd. how the rep had my casino username?? i did not send it, i did not put it here in public also, how does she knows my activity there without know my info?

 

[Tirilej]

virtualace rep has said that i had multple accounts, that i had claimed multiple free chips, etc.

1st of all like i said lots of times before, i dont have it, and 2nd. how the rep had my casino username?? i did not send it, i did not put it here in public also, how does she knows my activity there without know my info?

If you didn't want to be found you maybe shouldn't have written your name in your profile.

 

[bsilva028]

If you didn't want to be found you maybe shouldn't have written your name in your profile.

i have nothing to hide, but, asking at least the username it was a question of good sense no?

 

[Nifty29]

bsilva

If you are NOT prepared to submit a PAB, then I'm afraid quite a few people are going to draw conclusions from that fact alone...and reasonably so IMO.

If this were me, I would be on to that PAB form so fast my mouse wouldn't touch the desk. I don't understand why you are resisting.

Your claims about the emails being received and that you should be getting 680 of them is just silly. The ONLY way we will know if these emails are coming from the casino directly is for you to POST THEM HERE along with the EMAIL HEADER. What Cleveland said actually makes sense too.....if you have 40+ accounts using the same email, then it stands to reason you would be getting promotional emails from at least SOME of them, and if these emails ARE connected to your accounts, then they are NOT SPAM.

Now, please provide the emails (5) that you claim are SPAM and we can see if they really are legit or not. Remember to include the header of the email.

IMO, you need to let the "Oh I was only testing to see if they had really changed" stuff go. You were just hoping (IMO) that they might pay up on your latest free chip as a goodwill gesture during this probation. I might be wrong, but I cannot see ANY other reason you would "test them out" when you KNEW about the multiple free chip rule AND the rule about players from Portugal.

As I said before, the more you post, the more you appear to be digging a hole for yourself.

Someone is lying. The sooner we find out who, the better.

 

[bsilva028]

bsilva

If you are NOT prepared to submit a PAB, then I'm afraid quite a few people are going to draw conclusions from that fact alone...and reasonably so IMO.

If this were me, I would be on to that PAB form so fast my mouse wouldn't touch the desk. I don't understand why you are resisting.

Your claims about the emails being received and that you should be getting 680 of them is just silly. The ONLY way we will know if these emails are coming from the casino directly is for you to POST THEM HERE along with the EMAIL HEADER. What Cleveland said actually makes sense too.....if you have 40+ accounts using the same email, then it stands to reason you would be getting promotional emails from at least SOME of them, and if these emails ARE connected to your accounts, then they are NOT SPAM.

Now, please provide the emails (5) that you claim are SPAM and we can see if they really are legit or not. Remember to include the header of the email.

IMO, you need to let the "Oh I was only testing to see if they had really changed" stuff go. You were just hoping (IMO) that they might pay up on your latest free chip as a goodwill gesture during this probation. I might be wrong, but I cannot see ANY other reason you would "test them out" when you KNEW about the multiple free chip rule AND the rule about players from Portugal.

As I said before, the more you post, the more you appear to be digging a hole for yourself.

Someone is lying. The sooner we find out who, the better.

nifty: the post of "680 e-mails" was being a bit ironic, e-mails have my username, so i think they are from them, unless they give my personal info to affiliates-??
and i am also waiting by neteller response.
the players from portugal it wasnt there in that time.

 

[bsilva028]

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[bsilva028]

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[bsilva028]

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[bsilva028]

all these 3 e-mails already posted here, are from different brands of the group.

and they was received AFTER tawni says that i am a fraudster and a multi accounter and etc and AFTER the fully investigation that she has made.

 

[Nifty29]

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OK.

Unless you just came down in the last shower, you will know that this is NOT SPAM. It has your NAME and USERNAME in the email.

So, YES it is direct from the casino.

It also clearly states:

This offer is for depositing Club Player members only. We do not allow multiple accounts or free chip redemptions in a row. If you have never deposited with Club Player or your last transaction was a chip, please do not claim this code before making a deposit.

Again...this is NOT SPAM.

IMO, you are being misleading by stating otherwise.

I'm done with this now. You're misrepresenting too many things. I'm waiting until Max and Bryan have assessed the situation, as they will get to the bottom of it with ALL the evidence....even if you do not PAB, they will need to do so to find out which party is lying, and deserves the boot.

OH and BTW....promotion emails are usually planned weeks ahead and done in batches. If you have been removed from the list, it may take some time for the emails to stop.

 

[bsilva028]

OK.

Unless you just came down in the last shower, you will know that this is NOT SPAM. It has your NAME and USERNAME in the email.

So, YES it is direct from the casino.

It also clearly states:



Again...this is NOT SPAM.

IMO, you are being misleading by stating otherwise.

I'm done with this now. You're misrepresenting too many things. I'm waiting until Max and Bryan have assessed the situation, as they will get to the bottom of it with ALL the evidence....even if you do not PAB, they will need to do so to find out which party is lying, and deserves the boot.

OH and BTW....promotion emails are usually planned weeks ahead and done in batches. If you have been removed from the list, it may take some time for the emails to stop.

nifty, good you will finish, me too, will begin to simple ignore some things,
1st - do you know if i have claimed some free chip in club player?
2nd - do you know if i had made or not a deposite there?
you look like if you are trying to be a guesser no?

 

[gagamel]

bsilva

If you are NOT prepared to submit a PAB, then I'm afraid quite a few people are going to draw conclusions from that fact alone...and reasonably so IMO.

If this were me, I would be on to that PAB form so fast my mouse wouldn't touch the desk. I don't understand why you are resisting.

Your claims about the emails being received and that you should be getting 680 of them is just silly. The ONLY way we will know if these emails are coming from the casino directly is for you to POST THEM HERE along with the EMAIL HEADER. What Cleveland said actually makes sense too.....if you have 40+ accounts using the same email, then it stands to reason you would be getting promotional emails from at least SOME of them, and if these emails ARE connected to your accounts, then they are NOT SPAM.

Now, please provide the emails (5) that you claim are SPAM and we can see if they really are legit or not. Remember to include the header of the email.

IMO, you need to let the "Oh I was only testing to see if they had really changed" stuff go. You were just hoping (IMO) that they might pay up on your latest free chip as a goodwill gesture during this probation. I might be wrong, but I cannot see ANY other reason you would "test them out" when you KNEW about the multiple free chip rule AND the rule about players from Portugal.

As I said before, the more you post, the more you appear to be digging a hole for yourself.

Someone is lying. The sooner we find out who, the better.

If I would have 40+ accounts I would never say anything against a casino in this forum. bsilva knows the number of accounts he has. If he really has 40+ accounts he would be really naive to post an issue in this shark thread. But we will see the result.
One question, why is the rep not here. I know it`s weekend but she made accusation and then she went away.
And now maybe she looks at us as we lacerate us with a big smile.

 

[gagamel]

We've been here before with Virtual Group et al.

I have no reason to believe that they won't drum up some positive PR via their CM probation (like before), bend over backwards to be nice to all the newbies that start playing there as a result (like before), and go back to their own ways again (like before).

Fool me once, shame on you....and all that.

I don't agree with it at all. Just my opinion.

And Nifty, with all respect, these are your words.

 

[Casinomeister]

If I would have 40+ accounts I would never say anything against a casino in this forum. bsilva knows the number of accounts he has. If he really has 40+ accounts he would be really naive to post an issue in this shark thread. But we will see the result.
One question, why is the rep not here. I know it`s weekend but she made accusation and then she went away.
And now maybe she looks at us as we lacerate us with a big smile.

Actually it was bsilva who made the initial accusations of them being rogue, rogue, rogue. The casino rep apparently checked his account here in the forum (yes, he has his full name listed in his profile) and discovered he has set up more than one account per casino. She was fully in the right to jump in and try to set the record straight, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's a holiday weekend and most people won't be around this week to deal with this. I would welcome a PAB from either party, and perhaps Max or/and I can take a look at it when we aren't dealing with the holiday stuff.

 

[bsilva028]

Actually it was bsilva who made the initial accusations of them being rogue, rogue, rogue. The casino rep apparently checked his account here in the forum (yes, he has his full name listed in his profile) and discovered he has set up more than one account per casino. She was fully in the right to jump in and try to set the record straight, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's a holiday weekend and most people won't be around this week to deal with this. I would welcome a PAB from either party, and perhaps Max or/and I can take a look at it when we aren't dealing with the holiday stuff.

sorry bryan but i also have asked for sorry in the words used:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/the-virtual-casino-group-and-ace-revenue.59668/

yes i could have used other words to say the same thing its a fact.
the pab i simple dont want a repetion of what it was when i made against main street group, that i lost it because of my own fault, because i did not save the call that they have made me, and that was an error, before made some pab i want to have everything possible.

 

[Nifty29]

sorry bryan but i also have asked for sorry in the words used:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/the-virtual-casino-group-and-ace-revenue.59668/

yes i could have used other words to say the same thing its a fact.
the pab i simple dont want a repetion of what it was when i made against main street group, that i lost it because of my own fault, because i did not save the call that they have made me, and that was an error, before made some pab i want to have everything possible.

So you don't want a PAB in case you're proven to be at fault?

I think that's the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.

Why don't you want to clear your name? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Nifty29]

And Nifty, with all respect, these are your words.

Yes, they are.

These words apply to ALL situations.

It may well be that Virtual are just trying to drum up PR and more depositors. Time will tell.

In any case, it is no excuse ANYONE to make bogus complaints/claims and lie to the membership, which one party clearly IS.

The two issues are mutually exclusive. The truth is the truth, and that's all I want.

 

[vinylweatherman]

virtualace rep has said that i had multple accounts, that i had claimed multiple free chips, etc.

1st of all like i said lots of times before, i dont have it, and 2nd. how the rep had my casino username?? i did not send it, i did not put it here in public also, how does she knows my activity there without know my info?

This is an interesting point. You have not played since 2008 before this test, and you joined here in 2010. From the data they had from you in 2008, and the data available here in this thread and your CM profile, they were quickly able to figure out who you were by real name and address.

I have noticed that a few accredited casino reps are able to do this, but often this is down to the member having had a dialogue by PM with said rep in the past regarding their account.

One possible way though is if you have an email address in your CM profile, and it's the same as the one you used at the Virtual casino you tested with a free chip. This would link you to the test account, and thus enable them to trace all activity from you even as far back as 2008.

You didn't expect to be paid because you didn't believe they had changed, and in this respect, your test did produce a result.

There is also much being made of the fact that you are from Portugal. This is a problem purely of the casinos' making, having such a daft trap term, yet STILL sending invalid offers to such players as a kind of "bait and switch" tactic as Virtual know damn well that the majority of players will fall for the trap because they don't bother reading the terms. It may be legally correct, but it's morally wrong.

If I saw a Virtual casino rep drop £20 at the LAC, I would be within my rights to wait till they had walked off and pocket it - it's their fault for not taking care (same as it's the players' fault for not reading the terms). I would legally be obliged to return it if asked had I seen it, or a tannoy announcement asked if anyone had found it, but if no-one asked, I get to keep it. It's never actually legally mine, but unless the loser manages to find out I found it, and then find my address to write to me asking for it back, it's effectively mine.

If it's a whole wallet, I have to hand it in, BUT a finder can go back to the police after a few months and reclaim anything they have handed in if the owner has not stepped forward. Again, they have to compensate the owner, or return the item, if they are later asked, but it's never going to happen in real life. My brother did this with a ring he found as a kid, claimed it back from the police station 3 months later. The police sell off unclaimed property anyway, and the money effectively goes to the state.

Many businesses are morally corrupt in this way, using sneaky terms and conditions knowing that the majority of customers don't really check them and just trust the business to "play fair". Even though so many people get caught napping, many still think it won't happen to them, so don't change their behaviour.

It's because businesses have "played dirty" like this for decades that they are now drowning in "red tape", and we have ever stricter consumer protection laws that in some cases allow dodgy consumers to rip off businesses quite legally. A few DO seek out to rip off businesses by using "the system" to their advantage, and to many it's "payback time" for all the past sins of big business. This is where we are today, and is why casinos have such a problem with what they call "advantage players", those who stay just within the rules and the law, but who's aim is "payback time". Now CASINOS have to read their own terms and conditions, along with the consumer laws in an ever expanding list of regulated markets, in order to avoid their legal entrapment by clever advantage players.

Because of their past sins, Virtual will have made themselves a key target, and it's perfectly possible that they have an above average number of players who will try it on because they know that if they played fair, Virtual would probably screw them over anyway, so they may as well start out playing dirty, and hope that they get lucky by getting one over on the biggest rogue in the industry. It would actually attract a kind of "hero status" among some to be one who beat a rogue at their own game. Maybe bsilva DID push the boundaries in 2008, but was it as far as alleged by the rep?