Villento Casino (MG) locked account when up almost $6,000

[Tycoon83]

Thanks for the support guys.

Jelsmith, that's crazy...doesn't it just fill you with anger that they think they can do whatever they want.

 

[all4greed]

Why not contact the manager through email, phone, or live chat? Whenever I have a problem and quickly figure out generic live chat is worthless, I step it up a few notches.

 

[felicie]

Didn't microgaming casinos at one time have a number to call for Risk Management I think they called it? I've always thought Villento was pretty up & up fair. This sounds more like a Rival to me.

 

[jelsmith]

You went through a PAB, they refused to give any details, confiscated your winnings and they're still accredited?

idk if they were accredited then or not...it was 2008....they said i was in a negative database had altered my name and addy etc it was BS i play at MG casinos to this day and no probs....they said they wouldnt give me the info period...so idk they just didnt want to pay as far as im concerned....i did nothing wrong except win on 100 deposit

 

[jelsmith]

Thanks for the support guys.

Jelsmith, that's crazy...doesn't it just fill you with anger that they think they can do whatever they want.

yes but ive had 2 years to get over it...lol....i got my deposit back so eff em

 

[winbig]

idk if they were accredited then or not...it was 2008....they said i was in a negative database had altered my name and addy etc it was BS i play at MG casinos to this day and no probs....they said they wouldnt give me the info period...so idk they just didnt want to pay as far as im concerned....i did nothing wrong except win on 100 deposit

Back before the UIGEA I had a cashout at a different MGS casino that was being held up because "I owed money" to Firepay. Well, to make a long story short, Firepay had already dumped the USA market and would not allow any customers from the USA to pay any outstanding balances that they might have. Apparently this was common for players to owe FP because of the fact that their bank would not accept charges from FP.

So basically the casino in question waived everything and processed my w/d as usual.

Moral of the story: If they wanted to pay you, they would find a way to make it happen.

 

[Tycoon83]

I really do appreciate the support guys.

I looked at the casino rep on the forum, and his last activity was April, so I might as well just see if I can get a hold of a manager at the casino.

 

[Tycoon83]

Back before the UIGEA I had a cashout at a different MGS casino that was being held up because "I owed money" to Firepay. Well, to make a long story short, Firepay had already dumped the USA market and would not allow any customers from the USA to pay any outstanding balances that they might have. Apparently this was common for players to owe FP because of the fact that their bank would not accept charges from FP.

So basically the casino in question waived everything and processed my w/d as usual.

Moral of the story: If they wanted to pay you, they would find a way to make it happen.

Exactly. Hell, she even told me at the end of the convo to call my bank for more info on a chargeback

 

[maxd]

I looked at the casino rep on the forum, and his last activity was April....

'Last Activity' dates are not a reliable way to judge a rep's availability.

Many reps have set up 'reminders' so they receive an email when someone PMs them. In other words they'll often respond when they get a reminder rather than proactively checking the site (and thereby updating the 'Last Activity' counter).

There was a recent case where the rep hadn't been around for many months, yet responded within hours when a PM was sent. Our usual advice is to just try, regardless of the 'Last Activity' date.

 

[Tycoon83]

Appreciate it max, I was unaware of that.

 

[maxd]

... they simply claim that the customer has chargebacks at another casino, then they get away with not paying the winnings? And they don't have to provide proof of said chargeback?

That's not how that PAB went at all. There was good evidence of a chargeback history __and__ the player in question had provided what amounted to false info when they registered. This allowed them get under the wire at sign-up time and proceed to play.

From the casino's point of view the player should never have been allowed in, and would not have been if they had provided fully correct registration data. Based on this we supported the decision and closed the case.

You went through a PAB, they refused to give any details, confiscated your winnings and they're still accredited?

See above: details were provided in the course of the PAB and the case was decided accordingly.

FYI, their Accred status is relatively recent. They were not Accred at the time of the PAB in question.

Appreciate it max, I was unaware of that.

No problem, it's not obvious which reps have the 'reminder' thing set up and which don't. More or less you just try and see what happens.

 

[Tengil]

I guess because they werent accredited at the time they stole anakin80s winnings thats ok. He hadnt requested to be put on a MG "blacklist", just another excuse for the casino for not having to pay, in his case 10k.

 

[maxd]

I guess because they werent accredited at the time they stole anakin80s winnings thats ok. ....

I said nothing whatever about anakin80's Villento case, not a word. My post concerned jelsmith and only jelsmith, as should have been obvious from the contextual quotes I provided and responded to.

And what I said was there was more than sufficient reason to decide that case the way we did. "because they werent accredited at the time they stole ... winnings thats ok" is something you have fabricated out of thin air here, it has nothing whatever to do with the case discussed or the basis for our decision in jelsmith's case.

 

[Tengil]

I said nothing whatever about anakin80's Villento case, not a word. My post concerned jelsmith and only jelsmith, as should have been obvious from the contextual quotes I provided and responded to.

And what I said was there was more than sufficient reason to decide that case the way we did. "because they werent accredited at the time they stole ... winnings thats ok" is something you have fabricated out of thin air here, it has nothing whatever to do with the case discussed or the basis for our decision in jelsmith's case.

Well they are accredited now so obviously it was considered to be ok. My point was that theft of winnings in the past is basically approved by accrediting them.

 

[Pinababy69]

I guess because they werent accredited at the time they stole anakin80s winnings thats ok. He hadnt requested to be put on a MG "blacklist", just another excuse for the casino for not having to pay, in his case 10k.

I went back and read that thread Spider, and that particular case was due to the player self-excluding themselves at other MG properties because of a gambling problem. I don't want to derail this thread too far, but that MG database of people who have self-excluded is something I personally lobbied for. It was back before responsible gambling (online) was taken as seriously as it is now. One of the biggest roadblocks to getting MG casinos to actually self-exclude players who asked for it, was the fact that they could self-exclude at say the Palace Group...then a week later run right to any other MG and open an account and play. Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Now to this day I know for a fact there are players who can tell Casino X they just wish to take a break for ie. six months, but continue to play at Casino Y. To be put onto the MG "list", it is my understanding that the player would have had to express a serious gambling problem and a wish to quit. I don't know the particulars of Anakin's case (maybe Max does)...but he had self-excluded at two different MG properties and if he/she worded it in such a way to imply they no longer wanted to gamble, then that is why they were on the list. And IMO, rightly so. Where the system may have failed was in not blocking a new account upon signup. But again, a smart player will figure out ways around that.....different email addy, different deposit method, and so on. Again, don't know the particulars....just trying to clarify my understanding of how it works. And crucify me if you want....but I think it's a good thing. I wish that all softwares kept a database of "self-admitted" problem gamblers, and stopped them before they could even create a new account. JMO.

As to Tycoon's case. I think he needs to PAB ASAP. Chargebacks are a very serious issue, for everyone. You think those costs don't get passed down to everyone in the long run? Sure they do. I'm not saying that Tycoon is guilty, not at all. Could be a mistake....it's happened before. IF, and only if it is proven he was guilty....then no, I don't believe he is entitled to his winnings. And there had better be proof more than "because we say so" to back it up. If it is mistake, he is owed a huge apology, his winnings as fast as possible....and possibly a huge comp in the bargain.

He really needs to PAB to get to the bottom of it.

 

[Tengil]

I went back and read that thread Spider, and that particular case was due to the player self-excluding themselves at other MG properties because of a gambling problem. I don't want to derail this thread too far, but that MG database of people who have self-excluded is something I personally lobbied for. It was back before responsible gambling (online) was taken as seriously as it is now. One of the biggest roadblocks to getting MG casinos to actually self-exclude players who asked for it, was the fact that they could self-exclude at say the Palace Group...then a week later run right to any other MG and open an account and play. Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

Now to this day I know for a fact there are players who can tell Casino X they just wish to take a break for ie. six months, but continue to play at Casino Y. To be put onto the MG "list", it is my understanding that the player would have had to express a serious gambling problem and a wish to quit. I don't know the particulars of Anakin's case (maybe Max does)...but he had self-excluded at two different MG properties and if he/she worded it in such a way to imply they no longer wanted to gamble, then that is why they were on the list. And IMO, rightly so. Where the system may have failed was in not blocking a new account upon signup. But again, a smart player will figure out ways around that.....different email addy, different deposit method, and so on. Again, don't know the particulars....just trying to clarify my understanding of how it works. And crucify me if you want....but I think it's a good thing. I wish that all softwares kept a database of "self-admitted" problem gamblers, and stopped them before they could even create a new account. JMO.

As to Tycoon's case. I think he needs to PAB ASAP. Chargebacks are a very serious issue, for everyone. You think those costs don't get passed down to everyone in the long run? Sure they do. I'm not saying that Tycoon is guilty, not at all. Could be a mistake....it's happened before. IF, and only if it is proven he was guilty....then no, I don't believe he is entitled to his winnings. And there had better be proof more than "because we say so" to back it up. If it is mistake, he is owed a huge apology, his winnings as fast as possible....and possibly a huge comp in the bargain.

He really needs to PAB to get to the bottom of it.

He hadnt specifically asked to be added to a software wide self-exclusion. Plus it really wasnt effective, it allowed him to sign up and deposit. He didnt as he told get refunded any deposits when he lost. Only problem, of course, was when he won. A classic win-win situation for the casino. What kind of self-exclusion would that be?
They accepted his deposits and allowed him to play, then they must pay. No room for debate IMO.

Self-exclusion software wide should be set up by the software provider or an organisation like eCogra not by casinos and their processors. It just creates win-win situations for the casino. Im banned at certain groups (for "bonus abuse") and they dont even allow me to sign up, so its not the case that it couldnt be done.

 

[Tycoon83]

I got an email reply back from them.

Pretty much the same thing as the chat said.

They won't tell me who I "owe" money to, as it's a secret. I have to find out myself, pay them, just for a chance to be able to get my account unlocked. lol

Now I actually have to do a charge back, as I doubt a PAB will help since they keep telling me it's confidential on who I "owe money to. If they won't tell me they wont tell max.

*sigh* I never wanted to go this route, but I won't let them take $1,100 of my personal money.

 

[Tycoon83]

As to Tycoon's case. I think he needs to PAB ASAP. Chargebacks are a very serious issue, for everyone. You think those costs don't get passed down to everyone in the long run? Sure they do. I'm not saying that Tycoon is guilty, not at all. Could be a mistake....it's happened before. IF, and only if it is proven he was guilty....then no, I don't believe he is entitled to his winnings. And there had better be proof more than "because we say so" to back it up. If it is mistake, he is owed a huge apology, his winnings as fast as possible....and possibly a huge comp in the bargain.

He really needs to PAB to get to the bottom of it.

They won't give me an answer. They keep saying it's a secret and they can't release that "information"

If I owe money to a casino, which they won't name, how come I can withdrawal from other casinos just fine?

Hell, I won the 65,000 jackpot and had no issue getting the money. But when I'm up $5,000, they decide I "owe" money to another casino?

It's just a bullshit excuse to keep money.

 

[maxd]

... If they won't tell me they wont tell max.

Sorry, but that's not at all true. Most of what we get from the casinos is not and cannot be shared with the players. Your choice though, not like I don't have enough to do already.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: If you do not at least give Maxd a chance, then you are not taking full advantage of this board. You have Everything to gain, and Nothing to lose.

 

[takethemoney]

I got an email reply back from them.

Pretty much the same thing as the chat said.

They won't tell me who I "owe" money to, as it's a secret. I have to find out myself, pay them, just for a chance to be able to get my account unlocked. lol

Now I actually have to do a charge back, as I doubt a PAB will help since they keep telling me it's confidential on who I "owe money to. If they won't tell me they wont tell max.

*sigh* I never wanted to go this route, but I won't let them take $1,100 of my personal money.

Dude, what do you have to lose by filing a PAB. If the PAB doesn't go your way, you can still do a chargeback, if you are innocent. Nothing to lose but a bit more time.

 

[skiny]

See above: details were provided in the course of the PAB and the case was decided accordingly.

FYI, their Accred status is relatively recent. They were not Accred at the time of the PAB in question.

About Jelly's PAB.... She never received her winnings. So are you saying they reneged on payment for no reason or that she's lying and did in fact do a charge back?

It has to be one or the other.

 

[Pinababy69]

As others have stated, you should absolutely file a PAB. Villento is accredited here, and as such, agrees to the PAB or mediation process. As Max posted, they will and do share info with him and/or Bryan, that is not made public. The process itself usually takes no more than a few days, and should be your first course of action.

There is also Kahnawake, who is the regulatory body that oversees Villento.com A year or more ago I would have said that Kahnawake is a joke, but since the addition of Micki Oster as their complaints contact..they have really pulled up their bootstraps. I believe they have a 72 hr turnaround or thereabouts. Their complaint form can be found here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And where it asks for Member ID, you could either put in Villento or Canvar Limited...which is what their certificate is issued under. For URL, put Villento.com.

But decide which of these avenues you wish to pursue first, as it only causes confusion when you have two separate entities working on the same complaint.

All I know is that if you are innocent, then a chargeback should be the absolute LAST resort, to be done only after you have exhausted every other avenue available to you. If you aren't screwed now, you will be after you do a chargeback for $1,100.

One final note.....I guarantee that this isn't coming from the casino directly, but from their processor. Most MG casinos use an ecash processor which used to be called ProcCyber, but now goes by the name Datacash. I'm not sure if Villento uses them, but I'm going to assume they do. Not only do they do all the ecash processing (ie. deposits, withdrawals, etc)...but they are the frontline for fraud screening as well.

I have no idea if Datacash will deal with you directly, but their website is here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And a direct link to contacts within their fraud department can be found here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I would attempt to contact them directly, and see what, if anything, you can find out.

Keep the chargeback as a last desperate measure.

As a sidenote, you mentioned winning and being paid 65K at another casino. But I would bet it wasn't a Microgaming casino? As I said, it really comes down to the processor, and which casinos or softwares share a commonality in processing/fraud prevention.

EDIT: I just noticed this on Kahnawake's website:

Please note: If you open a discussion concerning your complaint on any public forum, share information with the media or any other public forum, you may jeopardize our ability to assist you.

Which is pretty similar to the rules here regarding PAB. So my advice would to be not post anything further, if you want to try pursuing either of these options. You can always post an update, once you have exhausted all other avenues. Actually, please do.

 

[just play]

One thing is confusing to me....

Why not PAB? Like the others have said you have nothing to lose.

If I were you I would be filling out the PAB form as soon as possible. If you haven't done a chargeback and now are considering it, may not be the best move.

PAB right away.

 

[Tengil]

If Datacash is indeed the former Proc-Cyber then anything is possible. Starting from sending me a cheque written in a currency that didnt exist