Videoslots withdrawl denied and Account blocked.

[helafast]

On weekend's my wife, brother and even my dad can all be playing slots (I know that sounds so degan, but its true). My wife and I have very few accounts at the same casinos but if we do we always contact chat to notify them of this before signing up. I will say that it would be totally possible for all 4 of us to be playing on LeoVegas with no collusion at all, I find it pretty obsurd that an IP address could cause this. I understand that his "friend" was self excluded, but there is no question at all that these Casinos have way too much power, regulation isn't close to where it needs to be.

I agree that there is more to this story, there almost always is.

Just my 2 cents

 

[spoo42]

myself and my gf have a account at ALL casino sites including videoslots. we use same computers live at same address and obv have same ip. never had any issues.

so if banning him is due to a IP then that is utter bullshit. must be more too it

Similar here. I'm the only one in my house that has an account with VS, but i have visitors who have an account with Vs and use my internet etc .

I also recently had a long'ish conversation with Vs on here as i wanted to understand where we stand should further occupants here wish to have a vs account, and I was told that would be no problem, and both could
make use of battles, rewards and even Cm exclusive promotions etc.

 

[zreb]

SE: lose = later demand refund, win, hope for withdrawal and SE isn't spotted? - Only a thought

I think this is the logic, but I have no idea if it ever actually works or not. Seems more likely to shoot yourself in the foot.

But just because something is a bad idea, doesn't mean no one will try anyway.

Just thought i would mention something. I have accounts with a lot of places. My son stays with me and he knows i gamble but do not think he knows that i use several casinos as well as bookie sites.

Anyway i know he has accounts at some places same as me like WH Paddy power etc. Only place he uses i have not got an account is SkyBet as thats only place that ever locked my account. Anyway point is most places would not actually bother if two people from same house have accounts long as they are using them right. And also to prove the point that it is near impossible to know what accounts someone in your house uses.

I would never know if my boy decided to self exclude from places either.

But that's kind of a problem, isn't it? It creates an "enforce when we feel like it" situation - meaning that many people won't be aware of the problem since it usually isn't enforced, but if the casino decides they don't like you for whatever reason they can bring down the hammer and confiscate winnings. Of course, you can still protect yourself usually by rigidly following the terms, but throw in 4 or 5 "usually not enforced" rules and you'll catch a lot of players slipping up.

For example, what if one of those casinos both you and your son play at out of the blue decided to confiscate a big win? You'd have no defense, since technically you violated the term.

 

[robby811]

On weekend's my wife, brother and even my dad can all be playing slots (I know that sounds so degan, but its true). My wife and I have very few accounts at the same casinos but if we do we always contact chat to notify them of this before signing up. I will say that it would be totally possible for all 4 of us to be playing on LeoVegas with no collusion at all, I find it pretty obsurd that an IP address could cause this. I understand that his "friend" was self excluded, but there is no question at all that these Casinos have way too much power, regulation isn't close to where it needs to be.

I agree that there is more to this story, there almost always is.

Just my 2 cents

Family Gambling

 

[paul7388]

I think this is the logic, but I have no idea if it ever actually works or not. Seems more likely to shoot yourself in the foot.

But just because something is a bad idea, doesn't mean no one will try anyway.



But that's kind of a problem, isn't it? It creates an "enforce when we feel like it" situation - meaning that many people won't be aware of the problem since it usually isn't enforced, but if the casino decides they don't like you for whatever reason they can bring down the hammer and confiscate winnings. Of course, you can still protect yourself usually by rigidly following the terms, but throw in 4 or 5 "usually not enforced" rules and you'll catch a lot of players slipping up.

For example, what if one of those casinos both you and your son play at out of the blue decided to confiscate a big win? You'd have no defense, since technically you violated the term.

Most of the places i play are big sites. The bookies would not bother if members in the same house had accounts . They would never not pay for a reason like that as they know most houses would have more than one member using them. Luckily if they ever refused a win then legally they would lose as the term would mean nothing as there is no way they could enforce a rule like that as the court would rule that i had no way of knowing my son had an account.

 

[Chipkin9]

We don't know what is associated with the ominous IP of the "friend".

OP says he SE'ed, but he might have attempted a SE fraud. We just don't know.

These stories with "friend" etc always turn out to be the same person. I have yet to see that it was indeed a friend ever since I signed up at CM about 3 years ago.

Fact is, there is lots of fraudelent stuff happening at online casinos and if VS is so confident to have authorities look into the case, then they better have solid proof, isn't it?

Perhaps the fact that it's impossible to determine whether the player is legitimate or not is the issue, and only going by the casinos word. I'm pretty certain there have been real instances where someone actually has signed up at a friends, played, won, been denied and then everyone just takes the casino's word at face value. If VS were now to say they have proof it's the same person, no one would question it, despite the possiibility a real player is being screwed over. That's a fact in my eyes.

However.

In this instance apparently the player has had his documents and details fully verified. Whether or not it's a friend allowing it to be done for a self excluded gambler or not is no impossible to prove. Videoslots can now only determine that the same IP address has been used and have closed his account.

Therefore we are back in that grey area of whether or not accounts should be banned for being duplicate IP log ins.

I'm of the opinion that it's a bullshit rule used at a casinos own discretion (IE when a player wins).

Thankfully it wouldn't happen to any of us here, but just think twice about being around a friends house and signing up at a casino or this could be the bs result.

 

[pinnit2014]

I can't think of many casual or newbie gamblers who would think that they must check with the casino if it's ok to open an account when a bit bored in a hotel, and on their wifi. Many here would but that's about it.

I used to stay in my mates when working in Belfast years ago and i'm pretty sure i opened 1 or 2 accounts there over the course of a year - luckily he doesn't gamble because i'm pretty sure it didn't enter my mind at the time to canvas him on what casinos he opened accounts with and/or if he was SE. So i can see how it would be easy to fall into this.

But like above, the fact that we have OK'd it within this house of mine to have 2 accounts with the same IP with some casinos suggests there's more to this. In fact, as someone has said, one of the casinos said 'as long as we can verify the other person, it's no problem' and 'just don't play at the same time as it flags up'.

Which raises another question - why do some have it in their terms but when you ask them their approach is different?

 

[Jono777]

Just thought i would mention something. I have accounts with a lot of places. My son stays with me and he knows i gamble but do not think he knows that i use several casinos as well as bookie sites.

Anyway i know he has accounts at some places same as me like WH Paddy power etc. Only place he uses i have not got an account is SkyBet as thats only place that ever locked my account. Anyway point is most places would not actually bother if two people from same house have accounts long as they are using them right. And also to prove the point that it is near impossible to know what accounts someone in your house uses.

I would never know if my boy decided to self exclude from places either.

myself and my gf have a account at ALL casino sites including videoslots. we use same computers live at same address and obv have same ip. never had any issues.

so if banning him is due to a IP then that is utter bullshit. must be more too it

Spot on lads, same here, the big difference is we ALWAYS use them right and had the decency and sense to seek prior permission from day one firstly.

 

[Guntis]

...everyone here clearly understands that this rule with IP address is totally unacceptable! And if there were no signs of fraud in regards to banking or bonus abuse then Videoslots must payout this player's legal winnings. And even if the registration was made with the help of the self-excluded person - so what? The account has been verified and belongs to a completely different person!

 

[homerbert]

Hiya guys!

I think I can give some my opinion about this case.

First off, RE IP's. Basically, when we have two or more accounts with same IP's and all such accounts used bonuses - it is legit reason to confiscate winnings.

Is this possible that it is really different persons and everything fine? Yes. But chances are much less than it is just one user abusing SUB or other offers. Therefore, it is always should be case by case and everything must be carefully checked. But you must understand - it is hard to proof that it is same person for us (casinos) in such cases. It is not hard to lose any complaint here. Therefore - we have such term (allowing us to confiscate).

I understand that it is not best scenario for everyone, but it is how everything works.

From N1 team I can assure that we never touch anyone if there is no solid grounds for this.

Second in regards to this complaint. It is just pure opinion and some facts.

So I signed up for video slots on 26.12.18 and deposited 1000 Euro via Sofortüberweisung

Few months ago we have started to receive a lot of fraud from players using sofort banking. In short - people was able to make chargebacks easily using this payment methods. If someone from part of this group read it - we understand what you guys do, so please go away.

Not sure if this case or not, but taking a fact that VS guys so easily ready to any PAB / complaint - I think they have more than solid grounds.

Hope it explains something to someone

BR,

V.

 

[chiya]

Hiya guys!

I think I can give some my opinion about this case.

First off, RE IP's. Basically, when we have two or more accounts with same IP's and all such accounts used bonuses - it is legit reason to confiscate winnings.

No. It's not a legit reason to confiscate. You didn't even comment at all on the fact that what happens if you are assigned an IP someone else used already? How is that players fault? Most players don't even know what an IP is. And I play 99% of my gambling on mobile. My IP changes constantly and there is no way I've never been assigned an IP that hasn't been used by someone else at a casino. No way.

So you think my winnings should be confiscated because i got assigned an IP that someone else had already used and there was no way for me to know that?

I say bullshit. That might at best, give you an opportunity to investigate further. But let's think about OPs case. He was fully verified at VS. Meaning there's no way to prove he is his friend himself. So again they're only using the IP rule which is NOT fair nor should be a rule in the first place.

 

[Guntis]

No. It's not a legit reason to confiscate. You didn't even comment at all on the fact that what happens if you are assigned an IP someone else used already? How is that players fault? Most players don't even know what an IP is. And I play 99% of my gambling on mobile. My IP changes constantly and there is no way I've never been assigned an IP that hasn't been used by someone else at a casino. No way.

So you think my winnings should be confiscated because i got assigned an IP that someone else had already used and there was no way for me to know that?

I say bullshit. That might at best, give you an opportunity to investigate further. But let's think about OPs case. He was fully verified at VS. Meaning there's no way to prove he is his friend himself. So again they're only using the IP rule which is NOT fair nor should be a rule in the first place.

Most of the online casinos allow only one first deposit bonus per IP address (check their t&c). If for example, you and your flatmate opened accounts and accepted first deposit bonus then a casino has rights to cancel one of them.

 

[colinsunderland]

Most of the online casinos allow only one first deposit bonus per IP address (check their t&c). If for example, you and your flatmate opened accounts and accepted first deposit bonus then a casino has rights to cancel one of them.

So how do you know if someone else has used the IP address you are currently using?

 

[Slottery]

It can pretty much seen from game play from accounts, don't know any reputable casino who would confiscate winnings just because of same ip address used some time. Over 60% casinos slot play is coming from mobile devices, there is quite big change that somebody have used same ip-address and played from Heathrow airport while waiting their flight and many many other public wifis what there are more and more all the time. Even casinos have that one ip-one account term in their rules, it needs bit more to get any winnings confiscated.

When going through account details, game play etc... you pretty much can find if there is same address, game pattern or something dodgy, if VS state quite direct that they don't discuss about this matter anymore but advise to claim complaint, i do think that they have something to stand for against it.

 

[nikantw]

I don't think it is possible to be "fully verified" so fast and so easily. I don't know how people say this with such certainty.
I don't even think the OP said it (only that got an email for some docs). There are many verification steps, many things you need to verify at many stages and many more checks that get done at a later time.
Didn't you ever get a look at the verification page at VS?

There are also many other ways to prove that it is the same player. How can anyone say "there is no proof" with such conviction?

I hope by now any full CM member knows that if they did nothing wrong VS will pay them, like any other accredited casino, they just may have to do a PAB sometimes.

 

[chiya]

Most of the online casinos allow only one first deposit bonus per IP address (check their t&c). If for example, you and your flatmate opened accounts and accepted first deposit bonus then a casino has rights to cancel one of them.

I know and that's the whole point here. The rule shouldn't exist in the first place. Mobile users have their IP's change constantly. How can I know if my IP has been used to open an account somewhere? The answer is simple: I can't, and I shouldn't be expected to and therefore not punished for it either.

 

[Guntis]

So how do you know if someone else has used the IP address you are currently using?

I wouldn't know! But I meant that situation when both persons know about the registration. (For example, housemates who time after time play at a casino together)

 

[SteveBr]

I think the main problem here is that according to the op Videoslots are saying they didn't receive the deposit. If that is the case, I don't know how he was able to play the slots to win 10k in the first place. Unless of course the deposit was paid and then a chargeback was issued...

I was reading through the German forum and it all does sound a bit fishy to me. His self-excluded friend registered first and posted about it, before the op then registered and continued the discussion. His friend also said he self-excluded from a different ISP/IP so it can't be anything to do with it being the same IP address.

Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

 

[robby811]

I think the main problem here is that according to the op Videoslots are saying they didn't receive the deposit. If that is the case, I don't know how he was able to play the slots to win 10k in the first place. Unless of course the deposit was paid and then a chargeback was issued...

I was reading through the German forum and it all does sound a bit fishy to me. His self-excluded friend registered first and posted about it, before the op then registered and continued the discussion. His friend also said he self-excluded from a different ISP/IP so it can't be anything to do with it being the same IP address.

Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

Ok I call you now SteveGER

 

[Harry_BKK]

I think the main problem here is that according to the op Videoslots are saying they didn't receive the deposit. If that is the case, I don't know how he was able to play the slots to win 10k in the first place. Unless of course the deposit was paid and then a chargeback was issued...

I was reading through the German forum and it all does sound a bit fishy to me. His self-excluded friend registered first and posted about it, before the op then registered and continued the discussion. His friend also said he self-excluded from a different ISP/IP so it can't be anything to do with it being the same IP address.

Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

Could you please tell me which forum that is or do you have mayb a direct link to the thread on that forum?!. Just would like to read up on the story as I know German playing habits rather well. I started my gambling "career" while still living in Germany.

I can read German

 

[bowki]

Just google his username and you will see Harry

 

[Harry_BKK]

I have read now the entire thread on the German forum and I am even more convinced that this is an attempt at fraud.

- Two completely new users on GJ.
- First the "friend" registers and posts the story as if he has registered the VS account and deposited the EUR1,000.
- Four hours later, the "friend" posts that he has actually written in the name of the OP who registered at his place. (nowhere does he mention that he moved to a new address since doing an SE at VS, so same IP can't be the problem)
- The "friend" says the OP is rather new to online gaming but opens an account and deposits straight away 1 large and doesn't take the bonus (fishy, I tell you). The "friend" who says slots do not interest him anymore, sits next to the OP during the entire session.
- Another 8 hours later, the OP registers and posts about the case.
- He was verified by VS but the withdrawal was rejected because VS was claiming that the transfer via Sofort was not cleared (huge trouble with that method as there are sometimes a few delays, I have to admit that I did some fishy stuff with that about 18 years ago, but that's another story)
- He has now the email address of Alex, the CEO of VS (not really going to help, IMO)
- All the time he posts from his mobile??? But played on a computer at his friends place.

OK, here's my verdict.

- This is an addicted gambler who has used the identity of his friend to open an account and knowing VS, he thought - deposit quick, win, withdraw quick and return the money to his friend. (Sofort can be misused for that, trust me, I know how)
- Or worse, it is a fraudster using pirated data, which would make this a criminal case (remote chance IMO)
- The OP here at CM and the "friend" at the German forum are one and the same person, I am 99.9% certain.
- The chances for a newbie to open a casino account and deposit 1K as first deposit are 1/100 million.
- The OP used the same computer thinking a different IP address would be sufficient to cover his tracks, and that is what caught VS's attention.

I stand to be corrected though.

 

[robby811]

I have read now the entire thread on the German forum and I am even more convinced that this is a attempt at fraud.

- Two new users on GJ.
- First the "friend" registers and posts the story as if he has registered the account and deposited the EUR1,000.
- The "friend" says the OP is rather new to online gaming but opens an account and deposits straight away 1 large and doesn't take the bonus (fishy, I tell you). The "friend" who says slots do not interest him anymore, sits next to the OP during the entire session.
- Four hours later, the "friend" posts that he has actually written in the name of the OP who registered at his place. (nowhere does he mention that he moved to a new address since doing an SE at VS, so same IP can't be the problem)
- Another 8 hours later, the OP registers and posts about the case.
- He was verified by VS but the withdrawal was rejected because VS was claiming that the transfer via Sofort was not cleared (huge trouble with that method as there are sometimes a few delays, I have to admit that I did some fishy stuff with that about 18 years ago, but that's another story)
- He has now the email address of Alex, the CEO of VS (not really going to help, IMO)
- All the time he posts from his mobile??? But played on a computer at his friends place.

OK, here's my verdict.

- This is an addicted gambler who has used the identity of his friend to open an account and knowing VS, he thought - deposit quick, win, withdraw quick and return the money to his friend. (Sofort can be misused for that, trust me, I know how)
- Or worse, it is a fraudster using pirated data, which would make this a criminal case (remote chance IMO)
- The OP here at CM and the "friend" at the German forum are one and the same person, I am 99.9% certain.
- The chances for a newbie to open a casino account and deposit 1K as first deposit are 1/10 million.
- The OP used the same computer thinking a different IP address would be sufficient to cover his tracks, and that is what caught VS's attention.

Inspector Harry

 

[SteveBr]

I have read now the entire thread on the German forum and I am even more convinced that this is a attempt at fraud.

- Two completely new users on GJ.
- First the "friend" registers and posts the story as if he has registered the VS account and deposited the EUR1,000.
- Four hours later, the "friend" posts that he has actually written in the name of the OP who registered at his place. (nowhere does he mention that he moved to a new address since doing an SE at VS, so same IP can't be the problem)
- The "friend" says the OP is rather new to online gaming but opens an account and deposits straight away 1 large and doesn't take the bonus (fishy, I tell you). The "friend" who says slots do not interest him anymore, sits next to the OP during the entire session.
- Another 8 hours later, the OP registers and posts about the case.
- He was verified by VS but the withdrawal was rejected because VS was claiming that the transfer via Sofort was not cleared (huge trouble with that method as there are sometimes a few delays, I have to admit that I did some fishy stuff with that about 18 years ago, but that's another story)
- He has now the email address of Alex, the CEO of VS (not really going to help, IMO)
- All the time he posts from his mobile??? But played on a computer at his friends place.

OK, here's my verdict.

- This is an addicted gambler who has used the identity of his friend to open an account and knowing VS, he thought - deposit quick, win, withdraw quick and return the money to his friend. (Sofort can be misused for that, trust me, I know how)
- Or worse, it is a fraudster using pirated data, which would make this a criminal case (remote chance IMO)
- The OP here at CM and the "friend" at the German forum are one and the same person, I am 99.9% certain.
- The chances for a newbie to open a casino account and deposit 1K as first deposit are 1/100 million.
- The OP used the same computer thinking a different IP address would be sufficient to cover his tracks, and that is what caught VS's attention.

I stand to be corrected though.

Great post Harry, covers my thoughts exactly

 

[nutnut]

Spot on lads, same here, the big difference is we ALWAYS use them right and had the decency and sense to seek prior permission from day one firstly.

Well to be honest Jon I have never asked any casino if ok apart from Rizk. To me if someone is verified and not same people then living at same address shouldn't make a difference. No decent casino would void a win as long as they are 100% seperate verified players imo.