Videoslots source of wealth income etc etc etc

[geordiecolin]

Wow! So the second email was a back peddling of sorts. I wonder what is really going on then. Are you thinking something shady under the guise of UKGC? I was just in the free roll battle and someone said in the troll box that the battle was eating up their losses.

There will be the majority of free roll battle players who will have had no clue about how this effects them while they set their limit. Lets hope for Videoslots health that most wildly exaggerate how much they can afford in a month otherwise the impact on Videoslots will be huge

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi all,

After all changes we have decided to remove deduction from loss limits while playing freerolls.

Br,

Daniel

 

[Gaz237]

Quoted from Gaz 237

"When you play any free roll battles. The amount of money for the free spins is taken from your set limit. I have just played a battle and it's reduced my limit by £10"

What will happen during free roll Sit n Gos? Are we supposed to increase our limits by thousands to cover our play in these tournaments? Surley the system shouldn't be taking freerolls into account?

I guess so. I had just changed mine from 1k to 10k.

A lot of people are going to get caught out and have to wait 7 days until they can play again.

Edit. Just seen Dan's post. So at least that's sorted

 

[colinsunderland]

If one was to lie what would one put for minimal disruption ?

Problem with lying is, judging by what is going on, you are likely to be told to send proof in, so be careful.

Regarding the loss limit, mine is £2500 a month.
I can take part in 8 freerolls a day quite often (yes I don't sleep much), so maybe £100 a day. In a month thats £3100. So I can't actually play real money at all if I want to play in freerolls. But then I can't qualify.
Yes, that makes perfect sense. What an idiotic system.

As is mentioned above, a freeroll weekend will eat into that too.

I've just manually changed my loss limit to £10000 so will see if it goes through, if it does, then whats the point of asking me what I can afford to lose, setting a loss limit, then allowing it to be increased

EDIT: Dan posted at same time, never understood why freerolls were included in loss limits anyway!

 

[geordiecolin]

Problem with lying is, judging by what is going on, you are likely to be told to send proof in, so be careful.

Regarding the loss limit, mine is £2500 a month.
I can take part in 8 freerolls a day quite often (yes I don't sleep much), so maybe £100 a day. In a month thats £3100. So I can't actually play real money at all if I want to play in freerolls. But then I can't qualify.
Yes, that makes perfect sense. What an idiotic system.

As is mentioned above, a freeroll weekend will eat into that too.

I've just manually changed my loss limit to £10000 so will see if it goes through, if it does, then whats the point of asking me what I can afford to lose, setting a loss limit, then allowing it to be increased

EDIT: Dan posted at same time, never understood why freerolls were included in loss limits anyway!

Dan and Videoslots have very swiftly amended that because the impact on their profits would have been devastating

 

[geordiecolin]

I thought the same when I found out she was a she ;p

I never had a doubt

 

[geordiecolin]

Hi all,

After all changes we have decided to remove deduction from loss limits while playing freerolls.

Br,

Daniel

When you state "After all changes" does that mean with immediate effect,or when you get round to removing the freerolls from the equation?

 

[interlog]

Well it looks like my money that I earned from free spins (£200 worth now) will be sitting in limbo. Add to that race winnings and cash back and you are talking about £250 by the end of the week:

Your Question: I am trying to withdraw £200 but am not able to do so because I am supposed to upload SOW docu Ments. I am, at this stage, not prepared to do this. Can you please manually flush my withdrawal.

Please wait, an operator will be with you shortly.

You are now chatting with VS Employee - English

23:11 VS Employee: Hi Mark.

23:11 VS Employee: How are you today?

23:11 Me: I am good thanks

23:12 Me: My question is as per the above

23:13 VS Employee: Could you please verify your date of birth for Me and I will take a look at your account?

23:13 Me: DOB = xx/xx/xxxx

23:14 VS Employee: You will not be able to deposit or withdraw until Proof of Wealth has been verified.

23:14 Me: Why do you need this Proof of Wealth?

23:16 VS Employee: This is due to new regulations from UKGC.

23:16 Me: So is it for anti money laundering purposes or reponsible gambling purposes?

23:19 VS Employee: This is due to new laws from EU and is mostly to prevent anti money laundering.

23:19 Me: So what is going to happen with the money now if I don't supply the proof of wealth?

23:20 VS Employee: Your account will remained restricted from depositing and withdrawing.

23:20 Me: What gives you the right to keep the money?

23:21 VS Employee: This is regulations that we most follow. If we would change the status of your account we will be violating EU law.

23:21 Me: So do you suspect Me of money laundering then?

23:22 VS Employee: That's a question that I cannot answer even if I had the answer.

23:22 Me: Well you must have suspicion if you block my withdrawals under the 4th EU Directive

23:23 VS Employee: I cannot answer that question Mark.

23:23 Me: So what is going to happen with the money please? If it is "dirty" money then you can't keep it? Who is going to get it?

23:23 VS Employee: I cannot answer that question either Mark.

23:24 VS Employee: We need a Proof of Wealth from you.

23:24 Me: Besides, you do know that this money came from free spins and not a deposit?

23:24 Me: Looks like this is not going to be resolved. Thanks for your time

23:24 VS Employee: We need a Proof of Wealth from you before you are able to deposit and withdraw again

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi geordiecolin,

This should be effective from the next freeroll battle that are up.

Br,

Daniel

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Well it looks like my money that I earned from free spins (£200 worth now) will be sitting in limbo. Add to that race winnings and cash back and you are talking about £250 by the end of the week:

Hi Interog,

I have sent you a PM.

Br,

Daniel

 

[geordiecolin]

Hi geordiecolin,

This should be effective from the next freeroll battle that are up.

Br,

Daniel

Thank you for the quick reply and for clearing that up for me

 

[deepsky2]

Dan all this information you are asking some players for a source of wealth, how many people at Videoslots have access to this sensitive information?? and what do you have in place that this information doesn't get in the wrong hands.

I too think this is Video slots going over the top, time will tell but I don't hear of any other casino going to the extreme of this. Absolutely disgrace to there players not called for and shame on them if this isn't needed. Maybe time to try another well accredit multiplatform casino may be the way to go as I find this just disgusting in what they are asking players for. My money is mine period. Maybe Video slots should share there sensitive information and there employees credentials.

 

[BillyGoldblum]

I had one from a casino. I cant remember who it was, I think maybe unibet. It had 3 questions. One of them asked where I get my money from and had a few choices. I chose work. They asked I ever self excluded from a casino. I said no. And that was it. They didnt ask me to send them any documents or anything at all. I think this should be the extent of it really.

 

[Steviedoo]

Let's slow down here for a minute......Stevie is a she?. Ahhh the memory of Full Tilt, I was the bad guy trying to warn people to get their money off of there as I knew the warning signs and those people did not believe me, Thankfully I know some did and they even thanked me!.

I never had a doubt

Not gonna take any of this personally yes...all woman...

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi Interog,

I have sent you a PM.

Br,

Daniel

Can you explain why your staff cannot say the answers to the questions they were asked (assuming Interlog isn't currently subject to an investigation by any law enforcement agency), as the tipping off law would not apply in this case.

Also, this must be under AML, so why couldn't they tell him you would have to send it to the authorities for a decision on if the money could be returned. That isn't a secret, and it is his money, he has a right to know.

 

[dionysus]

I'm curious if I'm to disclose how much money I make and from where in order to be able to afford to gamble if the casino in turn will send me all their documentation outlining how much money they receive each month to show me their expenses and where their money cones in from and where it goes to show me they can afford to pay me...probably not.

bottom line is...it's my money my business ..whether it's from work casino wins etc.

Bryan and the affiliates took a hard stand about opening their books to casinos..why should it be any different for players?

Who is someone else to determine what I can afford to spend based on my income and the sources from which it derives.
Perhaps my income doesn't justify my play but perhaps my tax free lottery or tax free casino wins or whatever additional sources private to me are.
Maybe I make 1k a month and bring in 5k in casino profits maybe I make 10k a month in income.
Last I checked I'm over 18 and responsible for my own spending.
I won't be complying nor playing where I'm expected to.

 

[gtpaul]

Have to agree with all your points here.

When I started this thread quite a few pages back now little did I realise just how badly planned VS were for this.
For a high profile casino there has been no forward thinking or realisation of what could happen.

It has been left to their loyal customers to show the flaws the incorrect wording the wrong assumptions etc.

This saga is going to continue (be it if they have any depositors left who have not already jumped ship)

Yes a misthought badly rolled out c**k up

 

[deepsky2]

Maybe casino reviews should not only show what type of deposits are accepted etc etc. Time to add what each casino requires for documents, each casino should have to disclose what they will want from there players as to many players get burned on withdrawal. If this is all up front, we as players can make a better choice where we want to deposit our money.

If I was a new player looking to join a casino and seen this thread on Video slots, I'm certain I would not open an account. If it becomes the norm for all casinos in the future to do this then we have no choice but right now we do!

Btw being a top-notch casino and still can not get a system in place so we do not have to verify prepaid cards is beyond me when many casinos for years skip this process automatically for prepaid cards. I know we can contact support or Dan but there should be a better system so we do not have to.

 

[gtpaul]

Yes thats we have a great site like this.

One of the best in the world, if only more people would find it first.

 

[Jasminebed]

What if you're a prostitute or rent boy and only deal in cash?

Neither of those activities are illegal in my country. Only the solicitation of clients (or service providers) for those reasons.

 

[dionysus]

Neither of those activities are illegal in my country. Only the solicitation of clients (or service providers) for those reasons.

heck..it's Canada. these days might even be a weed dispensary

 

[deepsky2]

Say you only make $300 a week and you gamble $1500 a month. Ok its most of your income but is it any one's business perhaps your 60 years old and for 40 years you were a good saver, have good investments, living off the interest. You got a good severance package from work, is it really anyone business that you need to disclose this personal information.

Can you imagine someone buying from the shopping channel making purchases weekly, daily you think the network is going to ask for docs to prove that you can afford to make the purchases? No!

Changing the subject a little talking about shopping, why is it in public eyes when most of us do it "gambling" is looked on as a bad thing. You know how many people I know that spend past there means because they have to have new shoes every weekend they go out or have to have the latest salad chopper ,put them self in so much debt they need to consolidate their debts. Fall behind in rent but have money for the next new iPhone etc I even had a friend who got an inheritance within the year of buying all new furniture, going on trips etc soon money was gone and racked up her credit cards another year later bankrupt no gambling involved, A few years she was able to get some cards again, and again there maxed out! Yet this type of addiction rarely talked about.

Maybe stores should ask for proof of wealth before they allow you to charge something, is this going to ever happen? No and I don't think its anyone business what you have. We are responsible for our own actions period....and how I decide to spend, save or throw away my wealth is no ones F ing business but my own.

 

[dionysus]

what about a situation wherein say a stay at home parent/spouse doesn't draw an income but has an informal allowance from their spouse/partner? is it the casinos business what a secondary person makes as an income?
or what if you walk out of a casino with several K a day or often . How on Earth do you even prove that? Maybe other countries you get receipts or tax forms I don't know..in Canada casino and lottery wins are tax free. You say thank you to the cash handed over and walk out .
I live on an island with several reservation bingos that might have a 25k end game. The bingo doesn't write you a receipt..they fork over cash.
This all seems rather poorly constructed ill advised and unnecessarily invasive.

I really am curious about a lot of players and moderators/administrators take as it seems to a degree analogous to the thread regarding affiliates opening their books to the casinos.
I'll follow along as I'm also curious as to which countries are/will be affected and to what degree

 

[TheAddict]

Good point deepsky2. It is a bit reedickyoularse.

Maybe shops should have a mandatory piss bucket next to the counter an a colour code bar to keep tabs that the customer is not suddenly over spending more on booze than he or she might be expected to be able to afford. if seen to suddenly be making more frequent, and in their opionion somewhat irregular transactions.

"Sorry sir, that colour code is level 18 for two consecutive visits, unfortunately this is sufficient evidence to suggest you might be spending more on alcohol than you might be able to afford and therefore we are required to investigate the matter for you. so please leave a stool sample in the baggie to the right, using the pinpricks provided to attach your passport, bank statement including any recent pay slips, and proof of any other means of income you may have received during the previous 3 months.
In the mean time we have limited your accont expenditure here with us to the value of £2.50 until sufficient checks have been completed in regards to your financial status, this means you can still take advantage of our popular own brand bushwacka livakilla cidre no.1, just £1.20 for 2.5ltrs and currently three bottles for the price of two"

 

[theslotsking]

As a principle if a customer of videoslots is flagged for this source of wealth then it should ask the questions etc before a deposit is made, ie when you click on deposit it should then bring up a prompt advising what is required.

I think its piss poor if someone is trying to make a withdrawl and has to answer questions or provide additional docs just to receive their funds.

I don't understand why online casino's are suddenly required to do this, far easier ways to launder money. They certainly don't do this at land based casino's!

 

[interlog]

As a principle if a customer of videoslots is flagged for this source of wealth then it should ask the questions etc before a deposit is made, ie when you click on deposit it should then bring up a prompt advising what is required.

I think its piss poor if someone is trying to make a withdrawl and has to answer questions or provide additional docs just to receive their funds.

I don't understand why online casino's are suddenly required to do this, far easier ways to launder money. They certainly don't do this at land based casino's!

I can vouch for that as I frequented some over the week just gone. Not a single one of them asked our group for source of wealth and between us we laid a lot of money on the table / pumped into the slot machines.

 

[shadow123]

hello lo lol lo all has gone quiet

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hi all,

Please note, it's very few players that gets ask for a proof of their source of wealth.
Here are a few examples of when proof of source of wealth could be requested.

A player that declares that he/she works as a waiter and earns €80,000 a year. Our team would look at this and most likely as for a proof of source of wealth since the salary that the player inputted are higher than the salary usually is for a bus driver.

A player that declares that he/she works as a bus driver and earns €20,000 a year and have lost €14,000 at our casino the last two years. We would in this chase also most likely ask for a proof of source of wealth. This is to check that the player can afford to gamble the amount that he/she do and that everything is fine.

We would also most likely request proof of source of wealth from a Highroller that plays for a huge amount of money and this is also to make sure that everything is fine and to see where the money comes from.


There can be other reasons also why we would request proof of source of wealth but this is the most common reasons.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions and I hope that this did clarify some of your questions.

Br,

Daniel

 

[shadow123]

Thanks for keeping us updated Dan, a little bit confused how you know how much a person earns as the pop up screen only asks what your
loss limit is .Am I missing something

 

[deepsky2]

I still think that this is bull who cares if say a player is a bus driver making $20000 a year and gamble $14000 its none of your business as that bus driver could other sources of income, investments, maybe a professional gambler or whatever no one's business what he does with his money. Why is it drunks can go in and out of LCBO like a revolving door they know more than likely he/she spending all their wealth on drinking but do they get stopped for proof of wealth?? Give me a break leave the detective work to the FBI.

Like to add however I do think its good on a casino if they think a player has a problem to reach out maybe suggest a cool off period but in no way, a casino should have all these sensitive docs that were requested at the beginning of this thread.

 

[colinsunderland]

I think this is going slightly off tangent

Under Responsible Gambling rules casinos can (and actually should) check customers are not spending beyond their means, thats not the casinos fault, its something they are forced to do, sign of the nanny state we live in unfortunately

Casinos also have to check a source of wealth if a customer is perceived to be a customer who is a higher risk of being involved in crime. Again, they have to do that, it isn't any casinos fault, its the law and something we need to live with.

However, what they can't do is blanket request the whole database supply this extra information under AML's as not the whole database will be a higher risk. They also cannot request the information under AML's then use that information for ANY other purpose, which includes marketing or Responsible Gaming checks. This does seem to be what VS's were doing and most certainly shouldn't be. Theres also a difference in what information should be requested. For example, under RG, if they ask you to show you can afford to spend £200 a day, and you show a bank statement showing you have £5.3 million in the bank, that should be the end of it. However, under AML's they would expect you to show where that £5.3 million came from.

One other thing, this isn't new. I think someone mentioned why don't UK bookies do this if its law. I have known both William Hill and Betfair send out Source of Wealth requests, both many years ago. It has been tightened up recently, but SoW requests aren't new.

 

[EnglishGuy]

Looks like i will be closing my Videoslots account.

Dear xx,

We would like to thank you for sending us your declaration about the source of your wealth. As you know, we asked you for this information because we believe gambling should be fun and not cause problems for our players or anyone else, and because we support and comply with regulations which are there to protect players.

In your declaration we noticed an annual income of up to 60,000 GBP. Given this income, your level of spending is a matter of concern for us. We are not convinced that your level of spending and the loss limit you set yourself is sustainable with the income you declared.

Videoslots.com is serious about keeping it fun, and therefore we are setting a loss limit for your well-being. The limit we set for you is a monthly limit of 800 GBP. You may remove this limit after a 7-day cool off period however your activity will be monitored for overspending.

The limit we set is what we believe the maximum should be for your income level. However, it may be better for you to spend less. If you believe you are spending too much on gambling, then we suggest you use our options to set lower and other limits in your account. You can also take a break from gambling, or exclude yourself for six months or more. Please see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

for more information.

If you have any queries about this, please contact [email protected] or use our online chat.

Best regards,

The Responsible Gaming Team
Videoslots.com

 

[Lincolnuk]

So it seems this morning, the few free spins i won from the free roll have counted towards my losses. This could end up been a cheap month yet. Its there spins i won and lost due to the fact i only got a couple of pound but yet it comes of my losses

 

[colinsunderland]

Looks like i will be closing my Videoslots account.

Dear xx,

We would like to thank you for sending us your declaration about the source of your wealth. As you know, we asked you for this information because we believe gambling should be fun and not cause problems for our players or anyone else, and because we support and comply with regulations which are there to protect players.

In your declaration we noticed an annual income of up to 60,000 GBP. Given this income, your level of spending is a matter of concern for us. We are not convinced that your level of spending and the loss limit you set yourself is sustainable with the income you declared.

Videoslots.com is serious about keeping it fun, and therefore we are setting a loss limit for your well-being. The limit we set for you is a monthly limit of 800 GBP. You may remove this limit after a 7-day cool off period however your activity will be monitored for overspending.

The limit we set is what we believe the maximum should be for your income level. However, it may be better for you to spend less. If you believe you are spending too much on gambling, then we suggest you use our options to set lower and other limits in your account. You can also take a break from gambling, or exclude yourself for six months or more. Please see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

for more information.

If you have any queries about this, please contact [email protected] or use our online chat.

Best regards,

The Responsible Gaming Team
Videoslots.com

So from that they seem to be using around 22% of your take home pay is what your loss limit should be. On the face of it that doesn't seem too unreasonable tbh, but it doesn't take into account many other factors, including winnings from other casinos.

It's also a complete waste of time, as if you have 10 casino accounts, and you spend 22% of your income at them all, then you are obviously spending much more than you have.

You can't do affordability checks without having the full picture of a customers income/outgoings, if you try, you might as well just use a RNG to pick the figure for the loss limit.

 

[EnglishGuy]

The reason its crap.. is because :-

1) I may have 100k in the bank, doing nothing
2) I might spend 3k this month at VS, then nothing for 2 months.
3) Like you say, i could spend 1k per casino per month. and lose 100 times my income.
4) It doesn't take into account other sources of income.

I actually lost £800 yesterday... in a single day... but was offset by the fact i won £400 the day before. (at vs).

I will close my account with Videoslots on principle, they are a decent casino, with cashback on a friday etc.. but i think they have interpreted the regulations way OTT. All the casinos i listed before, i can join them
and if they do the same, just close the account and move onto the next one.

 

[gtpaul]

Yes mate,
They are acting like a nanny state, dictating what you can and cant do.

Other casinos must be jumping for joy with all the mistakes they keep making, they sure will learn from these mistakes.

Vote with your wallet, you wont be the only one.

 

[shadow123]

Going to sit this one out and see what happens.Cant even think of depositing at VS at the mo

 

[Lincolnuk]

Hope nobody sets there limit at 300 and gets 300 race money today as it seems that once you loss it, it also goes of your loss limit. im gonna blow mine this month without making a deposit. VS are going to end up at a loss on this. Many are going to spend there limit without spending a penny

System needs a rethink, Losses should not include.

Casino race cash
Cash back
Amounts won and lost throu free spins
Any free roll tourny

At the moment according to my page which i have screenshot before and after they are.

By counting these VS are been unfair to the players as well as robbing themselves

 

[gtpaul]

The way they are digging holes for themselves they will soon be in Australia.
Maybe they could open a new casino and let the Australians play again......

 

[electronictonic]

Looks like i will be closing my Videoslots account.

Dear xx,

We would like to thank you for sending us your declaration about the source of your wealth. As you know, we asked you for this information because we believe gambling should be fun and not cause problems for our players or anyone else, and because we support and comply with regulations which are there to protect players.

In your declaration we noticed an annual income of up to 60,000 GBP. Given this income, your level of spending is a matter of concern for us. We are not convinced that your level of spending and the loss limit you set yourself is sustainable with the income you declared.

Videoslots.com is serious about keeping it fun, and therefore we are setting a loss limit for your well-being. The limit we set for you is a monthly limit of 800 GBP. You may remove this limit after a 7-day cool off period however your activity will be monitored for overspending.

The limit we set is what we believe the maximum should be for your income level. However, it may be better for you to spend less. If you believe you are spending too much on gambling, then we suggest you use our options to set lower and other limits in your account. You can also take a break from gambling, or exclude yourself for six months or more. Please see

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

for more information.

If you have any queries about this, please contact [email protected] or use our online chat.

Best regards,

The Responsible Gaming Team
Videoslots.com

Just wow, the level of Totalitarianism get's sicker and sicker every year, with the cashless society coming in real soon and this also, a declaration is very very powerful as it is a sworn oath of a man or a woman under common law, it's as powerful as an affidavit or a maxim under common law.

 

[DreamRJ]

Yes mate,
They are acting like a nanny state, dictating what you can and cant do.

Other casinos must be jumping for joy with all the mistakes they keep making, they sure will learn from these mistakes.

Vote with your wallet, you wont be the only one.

What a load of nonsense. I doubt they are jumping for joy at all! Because eventually they will all have to go down this route too. So there will eventually be no casinos we can play at that do not request it. And those casinos that fail to request SoW will get fined and also risk losing their UKGC license.

It all comes down to the timeframe they have before the new directives are rolled out by.

So if you all think you can just keep closing your accounts etc etc and moving onto the next one. You will all be disappointed because as I said they will all have to request SoW sooner rather than later.

The thing with VS is, they like to do things properly. They do not cut corners or look for loop holes. Yes they make mistakes. But once those mistakes have been found they rectify them as soon as they can.

Dan is probably up to his eyeballs atm with tonnes of extra workload just because of this. Everyone needs to cut him some slack. He does a sterling job.

And let me also say this. If you do keep closing accounts everytime you get the SoW request. You might then run into issues when that new gamstop system gets rolled out in 2018. Some casinos might just have one system for when a player closes an account and they might just have it as a self exclusion reason. So the more casinos you close accounts in, that will eventually get passed onto gamstop and then you will be blocked from all online casinos. Apart from the unregulated ones and the ones who operate in Curacao!

 

[EnglishGuy]

What a load of nonsense. I doubt they are jumping for joy at all! Because eventually they will all have to go down this route too. So there will eventually be no casinos we can play at that do not request it. And those casinos that fail to request SoW will get fined and also risk losing their UKGC license.

It all comes down to the timeframe they have before the new directives are rolled out by.

So if you all think you can just keep closing your accounts etc etc and moving onto the next one. You will all be disappointed because as I said they will all have to request SoW sooner rather than later.

Where i think you are wrong, is the Videoslots interpretation, of what their legal responsibilities are.. Go look at the text of the ruling.. its vague and open to just about any interpretation you want to place on it.

I'm a gambler, so i will make a bet with you right now, that videoslots approach is OTT, and most of the other casino's WONT follow their example. (in fact, i'm going to vote with my feet)..

 

[gtpaul]

Dream RJ

I think you are away with the fairies, go back through this thread and see all the backtracking they have done changed etc.

Other casinos are jumping for joy and are going to implement it different.

Watch this space and many more.

 

[interlog]

My loss limit reduced too despite not having made a deposit. The "loss" came of playing back free spin winnings.

Maybe something that needs looking into. For me, a loss limit is the value of deposits you have lost.

What happens if you were to win. Does that effect the loss limit?

 

[DreamRJ]

Where i think you are wrong, is the Videoslots interpretation, of what their legal responsibilities are.. Go look at the text of the ruling.. its vague and open to just about any interpretation you want to place on it.

I'm a gambler, so i will make a bet with you right now, that videoslots approach is OTT, and most of the other casino's WONT follow their example. (in fact, i'm going to vote with my feet)..

That is your opinion and I said mine. I am not saying that VS have done it OTT. I just said they like to do things properly.

Ask yourself this question? Would you like to play at "Casino A" that does things in a dodgy way that looks for loop holes? Or "Casino B" that does things totally by the book. Or their interpretations of the directives.

Yes I know it all comes down to how a casino implements and understands what the directives are and those said casinos might interpret them in completely different ways to others. But that is not just down to each individual casino. It is more to do with how they operate on a whole. VS operate in a proper way.

I hate this whole SoW too, but it is now upon us and keep bickering about it wont make it go away. And keep moaning and ranting will also not make it go away. And as I said. All other casinos and I mean ALL, will all have to implement the SoW systems sooner rather than later. And if those other casinos do it differently but are still inline with the directives set then that is how they chose to interpret and implement them.

All our discussions and complaining wont make VS change the way they operate and implement things. And I know VS have backtracked on things, As I mentioned in my above post. I did say that when VS see something was wrong they fixed it as soon as they can. So when you say backtrack I wouldn't say it was backtracking but rather fixing or amending what they already rolled out!

And yes I also know that this forum and threads have helped point them into the issues so they can fix them as well. So yes I will say this forum has helped but it wont make them change how they operate. All they will change is little aspects and the wording.

 

[interlog]

What a load of nonsense. I doubt they are jumping for joy at all! Because eventually they will all have to go down this route too. So there will eventually be no casinos we can play at that do not request it. And those casinos that fail to request SoW will get fined and also risk losing their UKGC license.

It all comes down to the timeframe they have before the new directives are rolled out by.

So if you all think you can just keep closing your accounts etc etc and moving onto the next one. You will all be disappointed because as I said they will all have to request SoW sooner rather than later.

The thing with VS is, they like to do things properly. They do not cut corners or look for loop holes. Yes they make mistakes. But once those mistakes have been found they rectify them as soon as they can.

Dan is probably up to his eyeballs atm with tonnes of extra workload just because of this. Everyone needs to cut him some slack. He does a sterling job.

And let me also say this. If you do keep closing accounts everytime you get the SoW request. You might then run into issues when that new gamstop system gets rolled out in 2018. Some casinos might just have one system for when a player closes an account and they might just have it as a self exclusion reason. So the more casinos you close accounts in, that will eventually get passed onto gamstop and then you will be blocked from all online casinos. Apart from the unregulated ones and the ones who operate in Curacao!

Well all of this started off the back from guidance given by the UKGC by the sound of things. The same UKGC that not only looks after online casinos but also land based ones in the UK.

As I said up topic, I visited some of these off line establishments over the past week and as a group of players we deposited a lot of money (there were quite a few high rollers!).

Not once were we asked whether we could afford to lose the money. Not once were we asked our profession. The only thing said was that if we were to win more than £1k we would have to apply for membership of the casino to make that withdrawal.

 

[DreamRJ]

Well all of this started off the back from guidance given by the UKGC by the sound of things. The same UKGC that not only looks after online casinos but also land based ones in the UK.

As I said up topic, I visited some of these online establishments over the past week and as a group of players we deposited a lot of money (there were quite a few high rollers!).

Not once were we asked whether we could afford to lose the money. Not once were we asked our profession. The only thing said was that if we were to win more than £1k we would have to apply for membership of the casino to make that withdrawal.

What??? explain this please?

And also to say but as I said. All other casinos will eventually have to implement similar SoW. There is no getting away from it. If those casinos that have UKGC licenses and want to operate in the UK. They will still have too. UKGC would not give fines and have threats to revoke a license if they was not enforcing it. So people who get upset saying they will close said account and move on to the next will be the ones crying in the long run. Yes I also do not trust giving the casinos all my private data. But this is how it is going to be now.

Yes we do not like it. But if we want to gamble then we have to do what is required if we like it or not.

 

[EnglishGuy]

It is not about vs doing things 'properly'.. it is about their arbitration that i can only afford to lose £800 a month... (and for the record i have lost 4k in a month before, with no ramifications on me whatsoever).
They are trying to make a real world decision with 1% of the information. They have no idea of my savings, my other income, my outgoings. (and i'm not going to give it to them either)

None of the casino's i have mentioned before are in anyway 'dodgy'.. so you shouldn't imply that they are....

What will happen, is they will all implement the rules differently. - the point being, they don't have to nanny their customers. My offer of a bet is still on by the way.

What we need is for vs to lose a big chuck of their customers to other casino's.

 

[interlog]

What??? explain this please?

And also to say but as I said. All other casinos will eventually have to implement similar SoW. There is no getting away from it. If those casinos that have UKGC licenses and want to operate in the UK. They will still have too. UKGC would not give fines and have threats to revoke a license if they was not enforcing it. So people who get upset saying they will close said account and move on to the next will be the ones crying in the long run. Yes I also do not trust giving the casinos all my private data. But this is how it is going to be now.

Yes we do not like it. But if we want to gamble then we have to do what is required if we like it or not.

We visited Apollo, Grosvenor and Empire casinos. The door men asked whether we were members of the casinos which we weren't. No problem playing, however the limit was £1k after which you needed to be a member of the casino to convert the remainder of the chips. Membership is, of course, free and requires ID.

 

[DreamRJ]

We visited Apollo, Grosvenor and Empire casinos. The door men asked whether we were members of the casinos which we weren't. No problem playing, however the limit was £1k after which you needed to be a member of the casino to convert the remainder of the chips. Membership is, of course, free and requires ID.

Ahh ok, but You didn't mention that it was land based casinos! that was where my confusion was. Thanks for the info.

But I actually do not know if the new directives also apply to land based ones. They might do eventually.