Comments Welcome Videoslots: Lower RTP for UK, Sweden, Germany & Others

[lockinlove]

I said I was not sure how it was communicated and said someone else had to answer that.

Would you be able to provide proof that all of these casinos RECENTLY changed their rtp? I just logged into lucky dino and so far pragmatic and playngo are the same low setting as 6 months ago when I addressed this with them.

 

[Mr Wild]

I have no idea if it was recently so no, bad by me to use word recently. I just believe so. But you seem to know better.

 

[DreamRJ]

Maybe we should all be shhhhhhhhhhh now? as it appears that is what VS wants us to be doing anyway. Seeming the way they handled this huge major change afterall. Maybe we should all go and put some headphones in and close our eyes and be quiet like they obviously want us to be

 

[Mr Wild]

Everything for me it seems, the clash of spins might as well not even exist and unless your at a high level the jackpot wheels seem to give me nothing either some 2x weekend booster rewards. On a good week i manage to get £5 cashback so thats a moot point also.

Maybe you can send your useranme to VS rep so they can follow up with feedback to VS CRM team.

 

[JohnSnow]

RTP builds up big wins in most games and reward one player. We at VS think it is better to keep higher bonuses to reward more players and give them longer playing time. That is hard to do when taxes are increasing on some markets so only way to keep bonuses is to reduce RTP in our opionion, that might not be shared among some of our competitors or some of our customers and we respect that feedback.

I can tell you that videoslots has lost me as a customer. I deposited around 10k in total last year so I would say I am a medium stakes player. I never ever get anything back, no cashbacks nothing. True I only almost play blackjack at videoslots and almost all the time lose. But no cashbacks, free spins nothing. Your casino has become a joke. The only thing that I really respect and love is the fast cashouts but other casino's are growing on me. Just yesterday I made a withdrawal at temple Nile and again it was processed in 1 day were usually you have a pending period of 48 hours. I rambled on about this towards white hat gaming and they are making changes to KEEP players. Shitty bonus when you get it, like you have to wager it before your can play with it on videoslots it's not 1997 anymore.

 

[geordiecolin]

I have no idea if it was recently so no, bad by me to use word recently. I just believe so. But you seem to know better.

Why should we listen to you when you are so obviously impartial?

 

[Steviedoo]

How low will the pragmatic play slots go at VS.
It doesn’t affect me. Yet. Who knows.
But They tend to be really low. I remember go wild had some pragmatic slots at 92%.

 

[lockinlove]

I have no idea if it was recently so no, bad by me to use word recently. I just believe so. But you seem to know better.

Your entire argument is surrounded around it being recent as a way to explain VS doing it is no big deal. This is the 2nd time you have made things up on here to defend your casino. Last time was trying to state MGA was more strict than the UKGC about SOW.

I assume you are in a high position on videoslots the way you have spoken about various subjects on here. Please dont mislead people any more. Lowering rtp, taking away rewards and claiming it's to survive is one thing . Purposely being misleading is different.

On another note, I do not know what the gaming commissions rule is about being transparent with customers in regards to RTP changes but since you guys have always pushed here, on your site how proud you are to always offer the highest rtp, you should have sent out a mass email letting people know.

I personally believe all these changes are because of the 1 million pound fine you guys received and you are putting it onto the players. I could be wrong of course but it just seems in the right time frame.

Have a nice day.

 

[Mr Wild]

Why should we listen to you when you are so obviously impartial?

Well, taxes are going up to 21% in UK this year and impartial or not, either bonuses or RTP will go down. If you prefer higher RTP and less bonus then you have many options. But there are very few options with lower RTP and higher bonuses. VS is an option for that.

 

[goatwack]

Your entire argument is surrounded around it being recent as a way to explain VS doing it is no big deal. This is the 2nd time you have made things up on here to defend your casino. Last time was trying to state MGA was more strict than the UKGC about SOW.

I assume you are in a high position on videoslots the way you have spoken about various subjects on here. Please dont mislead people any more. Lowering rtp, taking away rewards and claiming it's to survive is one thing . Purposely being misleading is different.

On another note, I do not know what the gaming commissions rule is about being transparent with customers in regards to RTP changes but since you guys have always pushed here, on your site how proud you are to always offer the highest rtp, you should have sent out a mass email letting people know.

I personally believe all these changes are because of the 1 million pound fine you guys received and you are putting it onto the players. I could be wrong of course but it just seems in the right time frame.

Have a nice day.

Very probable. Whilst powerhouse bookies shrug off fines like it's dandruff, I don't think VS can sustain such an imposing penalty without passing it onto the customer.

If they were to reel the money back, what possible ways could they think of doing this? Well.....

 

[geordiecolin]

Well, taxes are going up to 21% in UK this year and impartial or not, either bonuses or RTP will go down. If you prefer higher RTP and less bonus then you have many options. But there are very few options with lower RTP and higher bonuses. VS is an option for that.

It appears to me that more and more seasoned players are turning their backs on bonuses as the terms of bonuses get worse. Videoslots very rarely offer bonuses anyway so your argument appears to be mute

 

[Mr Wild]

Your entire argument is surrounded around it being recent as a way to explain VS doing it is no big deal. This is the 2nd time you have made things up on here to defend your casino. Last time was trying to state MGA was more strict than the UKGC about SOW.

I assume you are in a high position on videoslots the way you have spoken about various subjects on here. Please dont mislead people any more. Lowering rtp, taking away rewards and claiming it's to survive is one thing . Purposely being misleading is different.

On another note, I do not know what the gaming commissions rule is about being transparent with customers in regards to RTP changes but since you guys have always pushed here, on your site how proud you are to always offer the highest rtp, you should have sent out a mass email letting people know.

I personally believe all these changes are because of the 1 million pound fine you guys received and you are putting it onto the players. I could be wrong of course but it just seems in the right time frame.

Have a nice day.

This have to do with increased taxes and not the 1 million pound fine.

This will be final post for me here today. Have nice weekend!

 

[Tirilej]

Well, taxes are going up to 21% in UK this year and impartial or not, either bonuses or RTP will go down. If you prefer higher RTP and less bonus then you have many options. But there are very few options with lower RTP and higher bonuses. VS is an option for that.

But maybe as you can tell by our reactions that is not what your players want. Sadly I guess you won't listen this time either.

 

[BosjeR]

I think it's a very interesting discussion what happens if you lower the RTP. I think it's dangerous to assume it automatically means a higher profit for the casino. In my opinion what it means is for players to burn their cash quicker, and be more disappointed with the experience. It doesn't mean it would lead into more deposits. It will probably do so for a short time, but the disappointment and quicker burning will make players drop off more quickly.

Let's say your normal life time value of a player is 700 euro over 7 months. If you lower the RTP, you'll achieve maybe 600 over 5 months. So your monthly return on that player is slightly higher (120 vs 100), but you lose him a month sooner making the total life time value lower (600 vs 700) (numbers just for discussion).

I believe that the main problem of VS is that their marketing spend on retention campaigns is too scattered and too hidden, it's very hard to understand what value you get when and why. A more streamlined experience with probably cutting some current promotions makes more sense. Especially because I really believe cutting RTP is no solution to their problem.

Again, IMO

 

[nikantw]

I linked it to you, here's another Swedish government body, this one from february 2019.

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Spel för allmännyttiga ändamål är fortsatt skattebefriade medan övriga betalar 18 procent skatt på behållningen.

=Charitable games are continuously tax exempt while the rest pay 18 percent tax on the net+-

Google translate doesnt say "net" this time. "18 percent tax on the proceeds" doesn't mean net, on the contrary it usually refers to GGR.
This is like an article. What site is that?
Do you have the law about the tax please? The law should be more clear about it.

Edit: I am now looking at your gambling authority here

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Sure it must be there somewhere ...

 

[NeverLucky]

How accurate is this post because Lucky Dino has always had low rtp settings.

IIRC casinoheroes has also been running PnG on lower settings ever since i remember.

 

[xexe]

Google translate doesnt say "net" this time. "18 percent tax on the proceeds" doesn't mean net, on the contrary it usually refers to GGR.
This is like an article. What site is that?
Do you have the law about the tax please? The law should be more clear about it.

Edit: I am now looking at your gambling authority here

Old / Expired Link

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Sure it must be there somewhere ...

Google synonyms for the word "behållning". One of them is "netto" which means "net+-". So yes, it does translate to net.

Anyway, we can put this discussion on pause until Monday. I've emailed the Swedish Gambling Commission and asked. If they say it's net, will you believe it then? Or just counter with another affiliate site that you googled?

 

[lotusch]

I happened to be browsing the forum and stumbled across the Videoslots thread where it is confirmed that they will be offering LOWER RTP versions from certain providers for certain markets.

Whilst they have gone on to explain the reasoning behind this, I'm really curious what your thoughts are on the subject.

They state that Pragmatic Play, Play'n Go, IGT and Red Tiger Gaming currently offer reduced RTP's to their operators and they will be implementing them for Sweden, Germany, Austria, Ireland and the United Kingdom, apparently due to high taxes.

• Will other operators follow suit for these markets?
• Will more reputable software providers like Netent also introduce this?
• Are you aware of other casinos that are running games on the reduced RTP's?
• Do you believe this will have an effect on your gaming experience?

Reps from other casinos - Please feel free to chime in and discuss whether your casinos would also / are already in the process of implementing lower returns to these or other markets.

Source: Videoslots - Newly Accredited

Nate

Wow only see this thread now and I see Ireland mentioned as one of the countries with possible reduced RTP% on certain slots providers.
Another sign that it might be time to greatly reduce playing online.
I was not aware of this nor was there ever any casino who has this in their t&c's.

Slots are tight as it is and big wins are scarce and far in between.

Of course this will affect your play experience as many deposit will vanish quicker due to lower RTP.

Shocked by this and it puts me thinking again what the point is to continue play online.
Might as well spend my bankroll on Euromillions tickets.

 

[xexe]

Wow only see this thread now and I see Ireland mentioned as one of the countries with possible reduced RTP% on certain slots providers.
Another sign that it might be time to greatly reduce playing online.
I was not aware of this nor was there ever any casino who has this in their t&c's.

Slots are tight as it is and big wins are scarce and far in between.

Of course this will affect your play experience as many deposit will vanish quicker due to lower RTP.

Shocked by this and it puts me thinking again what the point is to continue play online.
Might as well spend my bankroll on Euromillions tickets.

It's only VideoSlots that are being crooks (in case you didn't know). The RTP stays the same everywhere else.

 

[lotusch]

It's only VideoSlots that are being crooks (in case you didn't know). The RTP stays the same everywhere else.

Ah okay cool, must check the RTP on VS then as I play there a lot.
My overall RTP there is actually quite good: 99.11%
Had a few good hits there.

 

[Borgie]

It's only VideoSlots that are being crooks (in case you didn't know). The RTP stays the same everywhere else.

I suggest it may be wise to check rtps whereever you play. They can be lowered i guess legally and it may not be obvious its been done so checking is wise.

 

[xexe]

I suggest it may be wise to check rtps whereever you play. They can be lowered i guess legally and it may not be obvious its been done so checking is wise.

Agreed. I've actually subliminally been checking it regularly since yesterday haha.

 

[nikantw]

Google synonyms for the word "behållning". One of them is "netto" which means "net+-". So yes, it does translate to net.

Anyway, we can put this discussion on pause until Monday. I've emailed the Swedish Gambling Commission and asked. If they say it's net, will you believe it then? Or just counter with another affiliate site that you googled?

Hey, I want it to be true. Then other countries may follow and everything will be better. The 2nd site I found was a legal firm. I am looking at your government and gambling authority now.
Some say proceeds or income and mean net, others mean gross. Its the nature of gambling.
A clear definition is usually found in the official legislation document.

 

[xexe]

Hey, I want it to be true. Then other countries may follow and everything will be better. The 2nd site I found was a legal firm. I am looking at your government and gambling authority now.
Some say proceeds or income and mean net, others mean gross. Its the nature of gambling.
A clear definition is usually found in the official legislation document.

Here is the tax section of the official document:

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Also says behållningen (the word that's synonym with net+-).

(Spelskatt ska betalas med 18 procent av behållningen för en beskattningsperiod.)

 

[geordiecolin]

Videoslots should supply an ignore button for all slots that are below 95% RTP because so many of their depositors will be totally oblivious of how they are being short changed

 

[Reelsoffun]

But VS already have a 2.50 charge when you do more than 1 withdraw a day. So for example, the first withdraw every 24 hours is free. But if you do more withdraws in the same day it then incurs a charge of 2.50. I do not agree with them either. But VS still is a great casino. So I kinda do not let it bother me too much as they have other aspects that make it not as painful.

Well thats quite simple, dont do more than 1 a day, have some self control and just do the additional withdraw free the following day.

 

[DreamRJ]

Well thats quite simple, dont do more than 1 a day, have some self control and just do the additional withdraw free the following day.

Hang on a minute though. I seem to recall that the UK passed a law recently that basically banned those type of charges and fees.

And around a few weeks after that, I noticed Rizk stopped charging for withdraws as well. They too used to charge 2.50 per withdraw. Some other casinos did too. So I am not sure how VS has still be allowed to keep it for UK players to be honest? Maybe @Team.Videoslots would like to clarify for me?

 

[lockinlove]

This have to do with increased taxes and not the 1 million pound fine.

This will be final post for me here today. Have nice weekend!

It could be the case.. both makes sense I guess.

@Nate I didnt know red tiger offered different RTP's either

I know lots of people have beef with leo vegas but it would be nice if every casino displayed it like they do. The rtp is right there when you open a game.

Betat and SlottyVegas also have reduced rtp on their games ever since implementing playngo and I see they have pragmatic now too so curious if they have lower rtp on them too. I would assume so although I dont play there anyways.

But I remember when LuckyDino had a promo and it was for jurassic giants and I played Jurassic giants in lots of casinos and the returns seemed fair enough. But then here after a few hundred spins it seemed really really different. I checked their rtp and it was set at 92.85% which explained a whole heck of alot! Closed my account and will never return to a casino offering such bs

I feel bad for the people who do not know about rtp etc

 

[pinnit2014]

Hang on a minute though. I seem to recall that the UK passed a law recently that basically banned those type of charges and fees.

And around a few weeks after that, I noticed Rizk stopped charging for withdraws as well. They too used to charge 2.50 per withdraw. Some other casinos did too. So I am not sure how VS has still be allowed to keep it for UK players to be honest? Maybe @Team.Videoslots would like to clarify for me?

Debit and Credit Card surcharges were scrapped but admin charges are still permissible.

 

[DreamRJ]

Debit and Credit Card surcharges were scrapped but admin charges are still permissible.

Ok yeah I knew it was for credit and debit card surcharges. But I thought it also covered other things as well. Like the excessive exchange rate charges that banks also used to charge was also included as far as I know. So I wonder why Rizk and others scrapped the charges then? You think they did it just in case? Or because they wanted to make it appear they care and wasn't out to just take take take from their punters?

 

[pinnit2014]

Ok yeah I knew it was for credit and debit card surcharges. But I thought it also covered other things as well. Like the excessive exchange rate charges that banks also used to charge was also included as far as I know. So I wonder why Rizk and others scrapped the charges then? You think they did it just in case? Or because they wanted to make it appear they care and wasn't out to just take take take from their punters?

Not sure...think the surcharge was only for receiving payments anyhow? (knowledge of payments is a tad rusty) - Places like Just Eat just added on 50p sure to the orders to get round it

 

[DreamRJ]

Not sure...think the surcharge was only for receiving payments anyhow? (knowledge of payments is a tad rusty) - Places like Just Eat just added on 50p sure to the orders to get round it

Yeah perhaps, I am not sure either lol

 

[aceking123]

whats alarming here other than what Nate has written is how many very experienced players on here did not know or bother to check sites for the lower RTP%, this isn't something that has been sprung up now it's been around many years , many players, newbies included, maybe often wonder why the old school users never bother to post because its pointless they tend to be your talking crap no one believes what we have been saying only in bits does it come out then all of a sudden players listen.

Video slots is doing what the rest are doing & some companies have been doing it for a lot longer than you think, im god smacked with some members here not knowing, they state taxes etc etc , bottom line it's all about greed & sadly they damn well know it is.

 

[Nate]

It could be the case.. both makes sense I guess.

@Nate I didnt know red tiger offered different RTP's either

I know lots of people have beef with leo vegas but it would be nice if every casino displayed it like they do. The rtp is right there when you open a game.

Betat and SlottyVegas also have reduced rtp on their games ever since implementing playngo and I see they have pragmatic now too so curious if they have lower rtp on them too. I would assume so although I dont play there anyways.

But I remember when LuckyDino had a promo and it was for jurassic giants and I played Jurassic giants in lots of casinos and the returns seemed fair enough. But then here after a few hundred spins it seemed really really different. I checked their rtp and it was set at 92.85% which explained a whole heck of alot! Closed my account and will never return to a casino offering such bs

I feel bad for the people who do not know about rtp etc

View attachment 105444

If you recall, I took Homerbert on about it a few months ago.... but that was in relation to PNG at Direx Casinos.

I then asked Dan from pragmatic if they would consider advising players that they were playing a reduced RTP version of their games when opened... I've yet to get an answer from either Dan or Homerbert.

I'm pretty certain that there is a shit house full of places which have reduced RTP. I wasn't aware of Red Tiger or IGT either.

To put this into perspective, I've played PNG at Direx Casinos and I can tell you that it may be possible that they run 92% versions - it's that bad. PNG go as low as 86%.

It's up to individual casinos whether they want to offer the lowered RTP versions - I have no issues about that.

Just be transparent and upfront to players... but hell, that ain't gunna happen anytime soon.

Nate

 

[JGslots]

If this is happening, they should make the RTP visible on the front screen on the slot.

It would be useful to know the RTP of the slot before you even open it, maybe this is already happening?

All that’s going to happen is the savvy gamblers will seek out casinos offering the higher percentages and average Joe is going to be in the dark about these changes.

I think if a solid casino stepped in right now and said they will always offer the highest RTP’s available, this would help build some confidence and I bet they would do a lot better in the long run.

I would be happy to lose all perks before lowering the RTP’s of a game, here in the UK land based environment you can find slots on 70% right through to 96%, which is a heck of a difference.

It’s going to be a slippery slope. Casinos will start badgering developers to release even lower settings for RTP’s, I think we will start to drift even closer to that 90% figure, how low will it take for you to stop playing?

I understand costs are high, things are tight... lower the perks, lowering the RTP’s is a dangerous move, people can and will vote with their feet.


Rob

 

[dionysus]

I think if a solid casino stepped in right now and said they will always offer the highest RTP’s available, this would help build some

would it though? VS WAS the solid casino that said they always offered the highest rtp possible

 

[JGslots]

would it though? VS WAS the solid casino that said they always offered the highest rtp possible

They need to hire Dan again to sort the place out

 

[dionysus]

They need to hire Dan again to sort the place out

with all the cutbacks they can no longer afford to hire him

 

[DreamRJ]

They need to hire Dan again to sort the place out

Dan is happy in his new job, I speak to him on skype. He also gets and has a much better salary as well maybe I was not allowed to say that, oopsies

 

[goatwack]

with all the cutbacks they can no longer afford to hire him

They couldn't stretch to Dan, not with the cutbacks, but with some wheeling & dealing they have (just about) acquired a new member, called....

"Da"

 

[dunover]

with all the cutbacks they can no longer afford to hire him

Dan is now making Pragmatic slots with operator set RTP's....

 

[dionysus]

They couldn't stretch to Dan, not with the cutbacks, but with some wheeling & dealing they have (just about) acquired a new member, called....

"Da"

as long as I dont have to login and see a D

 

[Borgie]

They couldn't stretch to Dan, not with the cutbacks, but with some wheeling & dealing they have (just about) acquired a new member, called....

"Da"

They could hire you for 50p what are they waiting for ...

 

[goatwack]

They could hire you for 50p what are they waiting for ...

I would have settled for 40p, but thankyou

 

[Borgie]

I would have settled for 40p, but thankyou

You are so cheap...

 

[DreamRJ]

I am on the expensive side. You really do not want to know?

 

[goatwack]

I am on the expensive side. You really do not want to know?

You mean....like.....two 50ps stuck together expensive??

 

[DreamRJ]

You mean....like.....two 50ps stuck together expensive??

lol nah, lets just say it involves a lot of 0's and a dot

 

[09237653]

I suppose a lot of places do also have the lower RTPs. but a lot of places still have the higher RTPs, guess where ill be playing.

 

[goatwack]

It's farcical really. On top of the normal associated stresses with slotting these days, players now have to go full-Columbo just to find the right 'version' of the games they want to play