Your Input Please Videoslots: Lower RTP for UK, Sweden, Germany & Others

Nate

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I happened to be browsing the forum and stumbled across the Videoslots thread where it is confirmed that they will be offering LOWER RTP versions from certain providers for certain markets.

Whilst they have gone on to explain the reasoning behind this, I'm really curious what your thoughts are on the subject.

They state that Pragmatic Play, Play'n Go, IGT and Red Tiger Gaming currently offer reduced RTP's to their operators and they will be implementing them for Sweden, Germany, Austria, Ireland and the United Kingdom, apparently due to high taxes.

  • Will other operators follow suit for these markets?
  • Will more reputable software providers like Netent also introduce this?
  • Are you aware of other casinos that are running games on the reduced RTP's?
  • Do you believe this will have an effect on your gaming experience?
Reps from other casinos - Please feel free to chime in and discuss whether your casinos would also / are already in the process of implementing lower returns to these or other markets.

Source: Videoslots - Newly Accredited

Nate
 

bowki

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I never knew we (Germany) have taxes on online casinos. Always thought we are a grey market and playing under maltese laws?

We do have taxes on sports betting but they are 5% and not 15.

Can any rep shed some light on this matter?
 

dunover

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I don't like it but what is the alternative? With various governments viewing online casinos as a cash cow, then either of two things happen:

1. They close down to the markets in question (as witnessed by numerous UK-facing sites closing last year).

2. They reduce costs, which can either be via bonus reductions, incentives and races being reduced or raise their margin by a percentage point or two.
This will obviously only be executed on games which have an operator-set RTP level.

Savvy players will then stick to WMS, Netent, MG or BTG.

In the short term it will make little difference to the average player who themselves are only responsible for a tiny proportion of that particular slot's turnover at any given casino.

The alternative is few or no bonuses or even losing many casinos altogether from the relevant markets. This will reduce bonus opportunities and the selection of sites to play at and the only people happy would be the big bookies sites who would find themselves being the survivors, and can subsidize UK operations for example by their huge profits from abroad.

So yes, a bitter pill to swallow but alas necessary in today's climate. We have to be realistic.
 

homerbert

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I never knew we (Germany) have taxes on online casinos. Always thought we are a grey market and playing under maltese laws?

We do have taxes on sports betting but they are 5% and not 15.

Can any rep shed some light on this matter?
Hey mate!

AFAIK there is no taxes for German market specifically, but there are regular taxes from MGA of course.

Can't comment on other things since I have zero links to games related things, but looks strange. From other point of view - looks obvious, if there are high taxes - business must compensate somehow. Unfortunately in almost all cases business take it from end customer :(

Br,

V.
 

bowki

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Thanks Homer!

I just checked and for BOD I still have 96.21% shown in the info file. So maybe Germany in the list is just a mistake?
 

Nate

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Hey mate!

AFAIK there is no taxes for German market specifically, but there are regular taxes from MGA of course.

Can't comment on other things since I have zero links to games related things, but looks strange. From other point of view - looks obvious, if there are high taxes - business must compensate somehow. Unfortunately in almost all cases business take it from end customer :(

Br,

V.

Have you ever managed to confirm if your company Softswiss is running Play 'n Go on the lower settings. AFAIK, you never got back to me on that. Since there are other software providers also involved, if these games are offered to players, are you also running reduced or maximum RTP's on these?

I'm curious as you do not offer your services to the UK and you claim that Germany has no tax. So IF you are running reduced RTP, it can't be for the same reason Videoslots is?

Nate
 

KasinoKing

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I never knew we (Germany) have taxes on online casinos. Always thought we are a grey market and playing under maltese laws?
We do have taxes on sports betting but they are 5% and not 15.
I have 100% for sure seen German 15% tax levied on at least one operator I work with. Off the top of my head I can't remember which one (pretty sure it's a Microgaming brand) - but I will try to find out...

KK
 

KasinoKing

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They state that Pragmatic Play, Play'n Go, IGT and Red Tiger Gaming currently offer reduced RTP's to their operators and they will be implementing them for Sweden, Germany, Austria, Ireland and the United Kingdom, apparently due to high taxes.
Do you have a figures of exactly HOW MUCH the RTPs are reduced?

KK
 

homerbert

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Have you ever managed to confirm if your company Softswiss is running Play 'n Go on the lower settings. AFAIK, you never got back to me on that. Since there are other software providers also involved, if these games are offered to players, are you also running reduced or maximum RTP's on these?

I'm curious as you do not offer your services to the UK and you claim that Germany has no tax. So IF you are running reduced RTP, it can't be for the same reason Videoslots is?

Nate
Hey mate!

You can check each game file to see RTP. PNG gamefiles at N1 - still not fixed (AFAIK, but they working on it, I was told it's on PNG side).

Br,

V.
 

Nate

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Do you have a figures of exactly HOW MUCH the RTPs are reduced?

KK

According to VS - from 96% to 95% Average.

That could differ per game. Some offer 96.x and then the next level could be 94.x which is 2% in reality.

Nate
 

sapit222

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They (Videoslots) should have told us (the customers) before they lowered the RTP, not after (when forced). :mad: :axeman: :axeman2: :machinegunner:

Now it looks like they wanted to hide it as long as possible and that really sux. :puke: :puke: :puke:
 

Nate

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Hey mate!

You can check each game file to see RTP. PNG gamefiles at N1 - still not fixed (AFAIK, but they working on it, I was told it's on PNG side).

Br,

V.

Honestly Homerbert, and no disrespect intended:

You have dodged the question repeatedly - not followed up on the claim that you WOULD confirm and now you direct me to the help file of the game.

You are an employee of Softswiss - It CANNOT be difficult to say - YES we run our games at the Max RTP or NO we run a lowered RTP
I just checked the help file on a PNG game at Bitstarz - No mention of the RTP.

I'll take it that all Direx NV casinos are running them at a reduced RTP as you often seem to dodge the question.

Nate
 

Slottery

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Hey mate!

AFAIK there is no taxes for German market specifically, but there are regular taxes from MGA of course.

Can't comment on other things since I have zero links to games related things, but looks strange. From other point of view - looks obvious, if there are high taxes - business must compensate somehow. Unfortunately in almost all cases business take it from end customer :(

Br,

V.

Can confirm that there is a tax in the German market.

edit: to OPs question, i dont think that my very limited slot play see any difference if there is one percent difference in RTP, just speaking about myself and my playing. As mentioned there, casinos have to make their numbers, i would assume that even for active players, 1% less RTP make your game sessions more enjoyable than cutting up bonuses what active players are getting constantly from most of casinos.
 
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DreamRJ

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Well I am not happy about it. But I much prefer VS to do this rather than close the market to the UK and other countries. As VS is my number 1 casino. I will scream and be soo sad and unhappy if they closed the doors to the UK market.

So I will just try my best to avoid those slots from those providers most of the time. I will still play them at VS, but just not as often.

But yeah they should have maybe emailed all those that will be affected rather than just do a standard forum post. As the majority of people do not even use this forum. So they will never have even come across the post by @Team.Videoslots

They did go on to say though that the rewards will be increased for those countries. Let us hope so anyway :)
 

homerbert

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Honestly Homerbert, and no disrespect intended:

You have dodged the question repeatedly - not followed up on the claim that you WOULD confirm and now you direct me to the help file of the game.

You are an employee of Softswiss - It CANNOT be difficult to say - YES we run our games at the Max RTP or NO we run a lowered RTP
I just checked the help file on a PNG game at Bitstarz - No mention of the RTP.

I'll take it that all Direx NV casinos are running them at a reduced RTP as you often seem to dodge the question.

Nate
Like I said repeatedly to you mate - it's out of my head. I've asked guys - they told that everything is from provider and we do not affect it. That's what I know. That's why I asked you to check game file to know what RTP.

You can take it as you want, seriously. I'm here and open to any questions, and my answer on your question is that you can check it yourself in game files. Per my information (I can't know everything) - we did not changed anything / I did not hear anything about it. Can I be 100% sure? No.

It's not something called 'dodging questions'.

Br,

V.
 

Slottery

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They did go on to say though that the rewards will be increased for those countries. Let us hope so anyway :)

Guess it pretty much mean that they can keep them same as now, or one percent morein rewards is not that much for most of people who do not play thousands a day :)
 

PCJACKPOT2008

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I'm fairly certain Red Tiger will be banned in Sweden soon. With the new laws theres one about giving the illusion of winning and Red Tiger slots do that just about every spin.
 

Nate

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Like I said repeatedly to you mate - it's out of my head. I've asked guys - they told that everything is from provider and we do not affect it. That's what I know. That's why I asked you to check game file to know what RTP.

You can take it as you want, seriously. I'm here and open to any questions, and my answer on your question is that you can check it yourself in game files. Per my information (I can't know everything) - we did not changed anything / I did not hear anything about it. Can I be 100% sure? No.

It's not something called 'dodging questions'.

Br,

V.

Yes the games are from the provider BUT YOU - Softswiss (The Aggregator) decide which math model YOU run on your platform.

And again - Play'n Go RTP's are NOT visible in the help file.

Nate
 

L&L-Jan

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As far as I know IGT always been offering 2 or 3 versions of the games, with various RTPs. Nothing new there, up to the operator to pick a game ID and therefore a RTP.
The other providers we don't have, cant say much about it. From all our other providers the RTP is determined on their end, with no options to offer a game with a different RTP.

As for Tax, you can argue to pay tax in Germany or not. We decided to do so to avoid any possible fine in the future. So we pay monthly 21% gaming tax in Germany.

I havent heard anything from other operators that they will be offering this. If a game has an RTP between 95 - 96.8%, I'm more than happy and see now reason to lower it to 92% for example, and to provide a customer in a regulated market a worse gaming experience as customers in countries where we don't have to pay tax? Not going to happen! I just dont think thats fair, and neither social responsible from a operators point of view. So a market is regulated and companies need to pay tax? Lets give the public a lower RTP to compensate for increase in costs? That doesnt fit my style, so wont happen at L&L.

Kr. Jan
 

Slottery

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As far as I know IGT always been offering 2 or 3 versions of the games, with various RTPs. Nothing new there, up to the operator to pick a game ID and therefore a RTP.
The other providers we don't have, cant say much about it. From all our other providers the RTP is determined on their end, with no options to offer a game with a different RTP.

As for Tax, you can argue to pay tax in Germany or not. We decided to do so to avoid any possible fine in the future. So we pay monthly 21% gaming tax in Germany.

I havent heard anything from other operators that they will be offering this. If a game has an RTP between 95 - 96.8%, I'm more than happy and see now reason to lower it to 92% for example, and to provide a customer in a regulated market a worse gaming experience as customers in countries where we don't have to pay tax? Not going to happen! I just dont think thats fair, and neither social responsible from a operators point of view. So a market is regulated and companies need to pay tax? Lets give the public a lower RTP to compensate for increase in costs? That doesnt fit my style, so wont happen at L&L.

Kr. Jan

So to markets where tax was quite lately introduced and came regulated by demanding their own license, you dont cut anything from RTP or bonus costs and owners of your group are happy to make less profit (maybe if you spread this statement everywhere and use it for marketing you could get some more active players but....)?

Happy to hear that there are some operators who dont care about money but customers :)
 
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