Casino Complaint verification to infinity.

[chayton]

Has anyone ever even heard of a casino asking for a BANK REFERENCE before they'll let you cash out? They've already got CCs and Driver's license and Utility bill.....now they want a bank statement and a BANK REFERENCE. WTF???

 

[all4greed]

That's a new one. What casino is this?

 

[chayton]

I can't say....

 

[DarkMage]

I had to google it

Information released by a bank about a customer, to another bank or lending institution. Bank references generally include (1) number of years of a customer's relationship with the bank, (2) number of loans and the amounts of their balances, (3) type and quality of collateral(s) provided, and (4) a copy of the customer's latest statement of financial affairs on file with the bank. Banks usually are under no obligation to seek the customer's approval (or to reveal the identity of the recipient) for releasing such information.

Never heard of a casino requesting this...

 

[kakata]

I can't say....

why?

 

[chayton]

why?

PAB pending

 

[incrediblestuff]

i hope this aint your friends jackpot....

really odd for a casino to want that.
i'd say total bs.

 

[RobWin]

i hope this aint your friends jackpot....

really odd for a casino to want that.
i'd say total bs.

Exactly! Especially if the player has no bank account, as many of them do not.
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[chayton]

I wrote to Max to see what he says and I wanted to get other player's input and whether you think this is a 'valid' request from a casino you're withdrawing from.

I personally have never heard of sending a bank reference to cash out so I think it's BS. But thought I'd post since there's other stuff - like standing in front of your house with your credit card and taking a photo that also seem like BS to me so I thought maybe I'm just sheltered.

 

[RobWin]

I wrote to Max to see what he says and I wanted to get other player's input and whether you think this is a 'valid' request from a casino you're withdrawing from.

I personally have never heard of sending a bank reference to cash out so I think it's BS. But thought I'd post since there's other stuff - like standing in front of your house with your credit card and taking a photo that also seem like BS to me so I thought maybe I'm just sheltered.

That is absolutely, without a doubt, the most asinine request that I have ever heard of Cindy...
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[pevangel]

I will give them my blood type but no way would I give them a bank reference, what does that have to do with a cash out, loans and stuff, they are not lending you money they are paying what you won at their casino. The only way I could see them asking for bank reference was if they are fronting the funds for you to play like a credit. Other then that they can forget getting that from me.


pevangel

 

[felicie]

Do you think something might have been lost in the translation? Maybe thats not exacty what they meant to say. I got an email last week from a casino I'm use to corresponding with saying something about some kind of a 'treatment' to my account. it took me a couple of reads to figure out but language barriers sometimes are just that, barriers. But if what they said is what they meant then it is baloney.

 

[chayton]

I will give them my blood type but no way would I give them a bank reference, what does that have to do with a cash out, loans and stuff, they are not lending you money they are paying what you won at their casino. The only way I could see them asking for bank reference was if they are fronting the funds for you to play like a credit. Other then that they can forget getting that from me.


pevangel

my thoughts exactly....

 

[chayton]

Do you think something might have been lost in the translation? Maybe thats not exacty what they meant to say. I got an email last week from a casino I'm use to corresponding with saying something about some kind of a 'treatment' to my account. it took me a couple of reads to figure out but language barriers sometimes are just that, barriers. But if what they said is what they meant then it is baloney.

I don't believe it's a translation issue. Bear in mind they already have all the verification docs - DL, CC and recent utility bill. That would be enough for most casinos - believe me there are NO issues with the ID or anything like that.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[incrediblestuff]

did they, on top of the ridiculous bank reference request, ask you to take a pic like you described???
LOL
at least they have a twisted sense of humor, but like robwin said:
"the most asisine request ever"
about as senseless as asking for a nude pic of you with the credit card in your ass, and a bank reference tattood on your forehead...
sounds like someone is not willing to pay...

 

[all4greed]

Information released by a bank about a customer, to another bank or lending institution. Bank references generally include (1) number of years of a customer's relationship with the bank, (2) number of loans and the amounts of their balances, (3) type and quality of collateral(s) provided, and (4) a copy of the customer's latest statement of financial affairs on file with the bank. Banks usually are under no obligation to seek the customer's approval (or to reveal the identity of the recipient) for releasing such information.

If this is really what they want, it is the most outrageous request by a casino I've ever heard. How can a casino even justify it?

Good luck with this matter. I'm curious how it turns out...

 

[chayton]

Max has given me freedom to discuss this in the forum - even though there's a PAB in process. Although he has given me this option I'm not quite ready to do it. For two reasons - first because it wasn't my win to be risking, and because there is a SLIM chance that this casino will do the right thing and pay out.

But so far Max hasn't gotten any further than we have and it's just one excuse after another, and no response to emails and stalling stalling stalling and now this ridiculous request. We've sent another email to clarify what exactly they mean by "BANK REFERENCE" and when they respond, we'll know what to do.

I will tell you this....if this win doesn't get paid out, I will join every gambling forum I can find and tell anyone who will listen about the treatment received by this casino and the parent casino group who has been - in Max's own words, "less than helpful." It will become my mission to stop as many people as possible from ever investing their hard earned coin any of their casinos. I can promise you that.

 

[incrediblestuff]

and rightly so i might say!

 

[skiny]

Thank you for sending all the docs we've requested so far. Now if you'd kindly go back in time and have someone take a picture of you winning the money we'll think up an even more ridiculous request immediately.

Don't forget to claim your 100% bonus on your next deposit! (See terms and conditions below.)
Slots only. 600x wage requirement. 50% max cash out. Bonus will be removed upon withdrawal. Wagering more than 1 coin on slots forfeits all or some wins. We'll decide that later on. Slots must be played during a full moon. We reserve the right to ask you to eat worms. Other rules apply. We're not telling you what they are.

 

[kakata]

did they, on top of the ridiculous bank reference request, ask you to take a pic like you described???
LOL
at least they have a twisted sense of humor, but like robwin said:
"the most asisine request ever"
about as senseless as asking for a nude pic of you with the credit card in your ass, and a bank reference tattood on your forehead...
sounds like someone is not willing to pay...

senseless???
that's exactly what I would ask to all my young female customer if owned a casino.....senseless

 

[chayton]

senseless???
that's exactly what I would ask to all my young female customer if owned a casino.....senseless

Kakata...you asked me for that yesterday and you DON'T even own a casino!

 

[nisosbar]

Max has given me freedom to discuss this in the forum - even though there's a PAB in process. Although he has given me this option I'm not quite ready to do it. For two reasons - first because it wasn't my win to be risking, and because there is a SLIM chance that this casino will do the right thing and pay out.

But so far Max hasn't gotten any further than we have and it's just one excuse after another, and no response to emails and stalling stalling stalling and now this ridiculous request. We've sent another email to clarify what exactly they mean by "BANK REFERENCE" and when they respond, we'll know what to do.

I will tell you this....if this win doesn't get paid out, I will join every gambling forum I can find and tell anyone who will listen about the treatment received by this casino and the parent casino group who has been - in Max's own words, "less than helpful." It will become my mission to stop as many people as possible from ever investing their hard earned coin any of their casinos. I can promise you that.

Wise decision. Have no idea which casino this is, but if this is how they treat winning players, it would be useful for us to know that.

 

[bernynhel]

Not that it should make any difference but how much money are we talking about?

And the only times I ever gave any casinos any bank information were a few times I opened dedicated accounts solely so the casinos could wire transfer my winnings. I've only ever deposited or made any online purchase with a prepaid debit card or QuickTender cuz I don't want any cc or banking info exposed on the Internet.

The bank ref request is totally out of line. Is there anythng in their terms that might have given a heads up on the possibility of this request?

 

[jelsmith]

did they, on top of the ridiculous bank reference request, ask you to take a pic like you described???
LOL
at least they have a twisted sense of humor, but like robwin said:
"the most asisine request ever"
about as senseless as asking for a nude pic of you with the credit card in your ass, and a bank reference tattood on your forehead...
sounds like someone is not willing to pay...

I have one of these....just ask the players at 3dice or Enzo...

 

[incrediblestuff]

senseless???
that's exactly what I would ask to all my young female customer if owned a casino.....senseless

LOL
agreed but:
if you and i did that solely to (pretty) female costumers. it would be with a noble purpose, and we would pay them for their efforts right?
i dont think these guys are doing it "for the cause"
and you must see dear kakata, that we should only ask for nude pics, and credit card details, we dont want our girls faces ruined with all these bank details: instead they can tattoo : i am "our names here" 's property and proud of it~!

forgive i am trying to be funny, not in anyway derailing

and to al the possible feminists: its a joke ffs! and i didnt start it!

 

[Jasminebed]

From the William Hill Terms and Conditions, which govern all casinos in the group:

7.7 Subject to paragraph 12 (Closure of Your Account; etc), You may request withdrawal of funds from Your Account at any time provided that:


7.7.1 all payments made into Your Account have been confirmed as cleared and none have been charged-back, reversed or otherwise cancelled;

7.7.2 any Checks referred to in paragraph 5 above have been completed by us to our satisfaction. For this purpose, we will further be entitled, at our sole discretion, to require that You provide us with, and You agree to so do, a notarised ID or any equivalent certified ID according to the applicable law of Your jurisdiction or otherwise, proof of address, utility bills, bank details, bank statements and bank references; and

7.7.3 You have complied with any other relevant withdrawal conditions in respect of, and can be found on, the relevant Website.

Complete terms and conditions Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) and don't forget the appendix!

As a Canadian, I don't think you are breaking any laws...why not have your lawyer send them a request for your payment? It probably won't cost you more than $150 to have a lawyer send a demand for payment.

 

[chayton]

Not that it should make any difference but how much money are we talking about?

And the only times I ever gave any casinos any bank information were a few times I opened dedicated accounts solely so the casinos could wire transfer my winnings. I've only ever deposited or made any online purchase with a prepaid debit card or QuickTender cuz I don't want any cc or banking info exposed on the Internet.

The bank ref request is totally out of line. Is there anythng in their terms that might have given a heads up on the possibility of this request?

As far as I know the only deposits were made with credit cards and possibly Instadebit back at the beginning. No wire transfers ever made either direction. As for the terms, nothing that can be pointed to for any of it. The amount....it's not a million but it's not chump change, it's upward of $30K.

 

[chayton]

From the William Hill Terms and Conditions, which govern all casinos in the group:



Complete terms and conditions Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) and don't forget the appendix!

As a Canadian, I don't think you are breaking any laws...why not have your lawyer send them a request for your payment? It probably won't cost you more than $150 to have a lawyer send a demand for payment.

Thanks for that Jazz - I looked through the terms before and didn't see that. I'll forward it on....

 

[Jasminebed]

Here's a little basic information about bank references:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Since their terms and conditions say they may request one, why not ask your bank to provide it? I do feel it is a delay tactic, but one that is probably easy to provide for a nominal fee (if any).

 

[just play]

The amount....it's not a million but it's not chump change, it's upward of $30K

 

[chayton]

Here's a little basic information about bank references:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Since their terms and conditions say they may request one, why not ask your bank to provide it? I do feel it is a delay tactic, but one that is probably easy to provide for a nominal fee (if any).

ok sent it!

yeah I know!

 

[Pinababy69]

Guess I'd be shit out of luck if I played here.....don't have a bank account. Haven't had one in years. So how in the world would I be able to provide a bank reference?

These casinos just get more insane every single day. What...no bank account? Oh well, we get to keep your money then...too bad.

 

[skiny]

Guess I'd be shit out of luck if I played here.....don't have a bank account. Haven't had one in years. So how in the world would I be able to provide a bank reference?

These casinos just get more insane every single day. What...no bank account? Oh well, we get to keep your money then...too bad.

You can deposit all your money in my bank account if you like.

 

[chayton]

Guess I'd be shit out of luck if I played here.....don't have a bank account. Haven't had one in years. So how in the world would I be able to provide a bank reference?

You'd be fine if you played - you'd be SOL of you won though. And the question is, why on EARTH would it be something that they would even ask for in the first place. I mean sure it's in their terms, but it's still one of the stupidest things I ever heard of. I suppose they think if the CCs are over the limit or have chargebacks then they can renege on payment? I don't know.

Update on this: Turns out that you have to go in person to the bank to get the bank reference - which means that you have to go during a weekday which also means taking time from work.

However, it's being done today and that will be everything they asked for. Then we'll see what happens.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You'd be fine if you played - you'd be SOL of you won though. And the question is, why on EARTH would it be something that they would even ask for in the first place. I mean sure it's in their terms, but it's still one of the stupidest things I ever heard of. I suppose they think if the CCs are over the limit or have chargebacks then they can renege on payment? I don't know.

Update on this: Turns out that you have to go in person to the bank to get the bank reference - which means that you have to go during a weekday which also means taking time from work.

However, it's being done today and that will be everything they asked for. Then we'll see what happens.

This is odd, since the definition quoted earlier implied it was the "lending institution" that asked for a reference, and the bank would supply it without necessarily informing the customer.

The casino MAY actually be breaking the law with such a request, since they are NOT advancing credit to the customer, nor are they RECEIVING a large sum of money in exchange for goods & services, and need to check the customer is "good" for it by looking at a bank reference.

It looks like "bank reference" is being misused here as a term for something similar, this being a "notarised ID". The bank is effectively "notarising" the player as being who they say they are, and are a customer with said bank.

This should NOT happen when players are able to supply a full set of ID documents, ONLY where players have problems supplying some items, and a substitute of equal quality is needed.

Casinos do seem to be pursuing players more in the courts, and through lawyers, so perhaps it is time PLAYERS took more of a stand, and started finding lawyers skilled in this field to take up issues on behalf of players.

Currently, if the casino stalls, refuses to cooperate with dispute resolution services, and regulators are weak, the casino can get away with choosing who to pay, and who to screw over, with little risk of much "come back".

There are quite a few players who would object to this because the bank would then KNOW THEY GAMBLE ONLINE, which would be an infringement of their privacy (to separate this leisure activity from their banking relationship).

 

[chayton]

This is odd, since the definition quoted earlier implied it was the "lending institution" that asked for a reference, and the bank would supply it without necessarily informing the customer.

The casino MAY actually be breaking the law with such a request, since they are NOT advancing credit to the customer, nor are they RECEIVING a large sum of money in exchange for goods & services, and need to check the customer is "good" for it by looking at a bank reference.

It looks like "bank reference" is being misused here as a term for something similar, this being a "notarised ID". The bank is effectively "notarising" the player as being who they say they are, and are a customer with said bank.

This should NOT happen when players are able to supply a full set of ID documents, ONLY where players have problems supplying some items, and a substitute of equal quality is needed.

Casinos do seem to be pursuing players more in the courts, and through lawyers, so perhaps it is time PLAYERS took more of a stand, and started finding lawyers skilled in this field to take up issues on behalf of players.

Currently, if the casino stalls, refuses to cooperate with dispute resolution services, and regulators are weak, the casino can get away with choosing who to pay, and who to screw over, with little risk of much "come back".

There are quite a few players who would object to this because the bank would then KNOW THEY GAMBLE ONLINE, which would be an infringement of their privacy (to separate this leisure activity from their banking relationship).

I agree - the 'bank reference' term was a little misleading - in this case what we got from the bank was a letter that said:

To whom it may concern:
This is to verify that Whatisname has had a bank account at this bank for X amount of years.

That's it. No financial info, no debts, no balances, no mortgage or loan info etc. Once we got this document into the hands of the right person, the withdrawal was finalized.

But like Pina said, if you don't have a bank account then what?

 

[kakata]

But like Pina said, if you don't have a bank account then what?



they will think that money are not safe in your hands...so they will keep it....for your safety

 

[maxd]

But like Pina said, if you don't have a bank account then what?

Then you get a letter from them that says "We have no clue who this person is but hey, we're a bank! We'll take your money any day, any time!"

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[chayton]

Casinos do seem to be pursuing players more in the courts, and through lawyers, so perhaps it is time PLAYERS took more of a stand, and started finding lawyers skilled in this field to take up issues on behalf of players.

Currently, if the casino stalls, refuses to cooperate with dispute resolution services, and regulators are weak, the casino can get away with choosing who to pay, and who to screw over, with little risk of much "come back".

...except that lawyers are expensive and Max and Bryan are cheap. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Actually what I would like to see happening is the big software providers yanking licenses of rogue operators. Then if you want to run a rogue casino you're gonna be stuck with the beyourowncasino software or whatever that was. Then everyone would know they wouldn't get paid if they play there and not expect it. Both RTG and Playtech need to step up IMO and take some responsibility for who they license to. It's their reputation at stake too after all.