Ukraine Mess

[lockinlove]

Well we're still here, this despite the big bad WWIII rhetoric being broadcast on Russian TV.

Not really something to joke about. Trump called Putin and asked him to not escalate the war so Putin is most likely listening. So once again good ol Trump probably saving a whole lot of lives again.

Putin is not an idiot and neither is Trump. Actually most people with even a tiny brain realize the democrats are trying to cause world war 3 to deter a successful Trump presidency.

Sickening really.

 

[Guntis]

There is zero proof that there is NK troups fighting for Russia. Those troups are in eastern siberia conducting training which they have been doing for years. It is just propaganda.

The fact that Russia has let red lines slide is proof that they do not want an esculation and that they have zero wish to invade other countries.

It is America and NATO who are spoiling to ruin Russia to protect and expand their self interests.

Luckily 5 of the missiles where shot down and the sixth caused a small fire and missed its target. Given the capabilities of those weapons I suspect that they where meant to fail which is some comfort.

How many of those rockets did they give to Zelensky altogether? If just a dozen or so then there is no point for Russia in playing with those bigger guns. They'll just shoot them down with С-400.

An example of perfect BBC news by the way. No ambiguities or twisted wording around.

 

[Guntis]

ah, got it. They say around 50. So what's he gonna do if they run out?

 

[geordiecolin]

How many of those rockets did they give to Zelensky altogether? If just a dozen or so then there is no point for Russia in playing with those bigger guns. They'll just shoot them down with С-400.

An example of perfect BBC news by the way. No ambiguities or twisted wording around.

It reminds me of Iran's use of precission weapons a few months ago into Israel where they deliberately targetted areas where there where no civilian casualties. Same as Tyson v Jake Paul, a few punches thrown but nothing serious.
Is it all designed to scare the public shitless?
I have no idea about how many of those weapons where sent to the Ukraine but I presume they where limited - and maybe due to be defunct otherwise?

 

[mack341]

Do you really think Russia is financially in a much better state? And apparently their railway system is in shambles now too.

Compared to Yeltsin's days yes, the difference from them to now is our media and the political scene had more serious people in it.

The neocons in the US want escalation, because potentially, in that scenario, if some powerful people in Russia start to worry where this thing is heading they could coup Putin. It happened to Gorbachev, obviously for different reasons.

These ATACMS are the last thing on the menu afaik, that and the storm shadow cruise missiles, can the Russian air defence systems minimise the damage. If so, then Putin can probably say I don't want to escalate because Biden has lost his mind, and not lose too much face.

Depends on the damage the missiles do, if they hit nuclear early warning systems and core infrastructure, who knows where that could lead to. Edit: Also civilians, if they get hit badly e.g.a towerblock of flats is destroyed, then all bets are off. Who chooses and vets the targets, you'd think a US official must have the final say.

No doubt Ukraine will face more missile barrages in return, but not like Israel on gaza though as there is no ethnicity/religious battle here, it's Slavic people fighting one another:

(Wiki) The Slavic languages belong to the Balto-Slavic branch of the Indo-European language family. Present-day Slavs are classified into three groups:

West Slavs (Czechs, Kashubians, Poles, Silesians, Slovaks, and Sorbs);

East Slavs (Belarusians, Russians, Rusyns, and Ukrainians);

South Slavs (Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Gorani, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs, and Slovenes).

 

[mack341]

Says it all really, but in our clown world it's like 'ah well no big deal, when's that I'm a celeb get me out of here on'.

 

[lockinlove]

Yes it is too much to ask. The deep state and war machine that is the USA must have a war somewhere. Why not pick a fight with Russia? Idiots.

 

[TheAddict]

Why do most people use the word "literally", like literally every single time they have something to say . Like ffs, Vlad .

 

[Webzcas]

Jake gets it too. We best all contact Ron at Atlas and purchase a WineNado

 

[Webzcas]

 

[goatwack]

One does wonder about the furore about the weapons' country of origin, and the sudden tub-thumping, Red Square tannoy-announcing and general pearl-clutching from the Russians.

Surely it matters not as much about whether they were U.S, UK or Tanzanian-produced when they all amount to the same thing, namely to make things go 'boom'. The fact that Ukraine's been steadily supplied in armaments for years is still what ought to rankle Putin & co most....which it does!

Yet as mentioned, there are some serious flaws in allowing a country's leader to escalate a conflict, when merely 'running down the clock' of their term, and there ought to be laws prohibiting this, unless concerning matters of national self-defence or of course an actual World War. And if he wasn't a senile puppet that chews his own ear

 

[Kroffe]

One does wonder about the furore about the weapons' country of origin, and the sudden tub-thumping, Red Square tannoy-announcing and general pearl-clutching from the Russians.

Surely it matters not as much about whether they were U.S, UK or Tanzanian-produced when they all amount to the same thing, namely to make things go 'boom'. The fact that Ukraine's been steadily supplied in armaments for years is still what ought to rankle Putin & co most....which it does!

Yet as mentioned, there are some serious flaws in allowing a country's leader to escalate a conflict, when merely 'running down the clock' of their term, and there ought to be laws prohibiting this, unless concerning matters of national self-defence or of course an actual World War. And if he wasn't a senile puppet that chews his own ear

It is weird.
Sending tanks, planes, missiles etc is ok and does not mean NATO is actively taking part in the conflict.
Letting them use NATO satellites to aim said missiles means nuclear war because now NATO is taking part in the conflict.

 

[Webzcas]

It is all Kremlin propaganda BS. FYI Russia changed their nuclear doctrine back in September - It was just signed into law the other day. Nothing to see here and nothing has changed!

There has been no change in the posture of Russia's nuclear forces. You don't think the 5 eyes aren't watching them like a hawk.

Yet more nuclear threats on Russia 1 continue every day, including last night. The same has happened every day of this now 1001 day illegal invasion of Ukraine.

Putin's best hope is Trump keeping to his word and working on a quick deal, which no doubt will be in Russia's favour. You really think Putin will scupper that because a couple of ATACMS have hit an ammo dump 100kms inside Russia's border?

Unlike the Russians, Ukraine only use their donated kit on military targets. Not residential high rises, shopping malls and the such like.

 

[mack341]

It is weird.
Sending tanks, planes, missiles etc is ok and does not mean NATO is actively taking part in the conflict.
Letting them use NATO satellites to aim said missiles means nuclear war because now NATO is taking part in the conflict.

I think the difference is attacking Russian land proper, and how much help from the west/nato personnel is required for missile firing, acquiring the targets, specific advisors on the ground etc..

Obviously it's been going on with the himars but probably most of the targets were in east Ukraine or border regions, so considered fair game.

If Russia hits an arms dump 100km inside Poland that's used to arm and equip the Ukraine army, would that signal the start of ww3?

The west is now kind of daring him to do it.

---------------.

Part of the cold war dynamic was trying to understand how each side thought, especially trying to understand the Soviets, how far can we push without triggering hostilities. The fear was they were so ideological they would launch nuclears if their reign/rule was at risk.

Putin's been on our TVs for the last 20 years, meeting our leaders and doing media interviews, so we feel we know what he's about and how far he'd go. In the cold war, the soviets were mostly talking amongst themselves, that sort of secrecy created more fear and caution in the west.

It's all about how much losing face can this russian leadership take, if it was a game of chess they're now in a more tricky position than at any time before, as Putin's warnings have now been ignored, if no response then he's been found out as a bluffer, whose words don't mean anything or will now always carry less weight.

 

[Webzcas]

Retired Major General Rupert Jones, son of Colonel H Jones who was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross after the Falklands Conflict, also agrees with my way of thinking. Cutting through the Russian controlled propaganda and bluster bs, like a knife through butter.

 

[Guntis]

No, it has changed. In September, they had a regular biannual meeting regarding nuclear deterrence. This essentially meant that changes were being planned and developed.

But since yesterday, November 19, 2024, all of these changes have been actualized/implemented here: static.kremlin.ru/media/events/files/ru/KrzVeeTCkT05CCvgIoY03xuvIdkVslkx.pdf

In simple words: then nothing was real, but now is.

So YouTubers who people listen to with open eyes and ears simply missed out on this meeting that Putin had in September. All the details including a video were there since September on the Kremlin's site where they post significant events.

I saw the video earlier but TBH didn't pay much attention as it looked like just one of their meetings.

Here is what it says, the original is at kremlin.ru/events/president/news/75182.

V.Putin: Good day, respected colleagues!
Today we are conducting a scheduled event - the meeting is called the Standing Conference on Nuclear Deterrence, held twice a year. On today's agenda, we have a matter concerning the update of the Fundamentals of State Policy in the Field of Nuclear Deterrence.

Along with the Military Doctrine, this is a document that officially defines and details Russia's nuclear strategy. First and foremost, it establishes the basic principle for the use of nuclear weapons, namely that the use of nuclear forces is an ultimate measure for protecting the country's sovereignty.

I emphasize that we have always approached such matters with the highest degree of responsibility. Well aware of the colossal power this weapon possesses, we have sought to strengthen the international legal framework for global stability and prevent the "proliferation" of nuclear weapons and their components.

Today, the nuclear triad remains the most important guarantee of our state's and citizens' security, an instrument for maintaining strategic parity and balance of power in the world.

However, we see that the current military-political situation is changing dynamically, and we must take this into account. This includes the emergence of new sources of military threats and risks for Russia and our allies.

It is important to forecast the development of the situation and accordingly adapt the provisions of the strategic planning document to current realities.

Over the past year, specialists from the Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Security Council Office, and other agencies have conducted a deep, comprehensive analysis, evaluating the need to adjust our approaches to the possible use of nuclear forces. Based on the results of this work, it is proposed to make several clarifications regarding the conditions for the use of nuclear weapons.

Thus, in the draft Fundamentals, the category of states and military alliances subject to nuclear deterrence has been expanded, and the list of military threats for which nuclear deterrence measures are implemented has been supplemented.

I would like to draw your particular attention to another point. In the updated version of the document, aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear state with the participation or support of a nuclear state is proposed to be considered as their joint attack on the Russian Federation.

The conditions for Russia's transition to the use of nuclear weapons are also clearly specified. We will consider such a possibility upon receiving reliable information about a massive launch of aerospace attack means and their crossing of our state border. I mean strategic and tactical aviation aircraft, cruise missiles, drones, hypersonic and other aircraft.

We reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in case of aggression against Russia and Belarus as a member of the Union State. All these matters have been coordinated with the Belarusian side, with the President of Belarus. This includes cases where the adversary, using conventional weapons, creates a critical threat to our sovereignty.

In conclusion, I note that all clarifications are deeply verified and proportionate to contemporary military threats and risks regarding the Russian Federation.

 

[Guntis]

It's an ultimate measure, so relax, chill out, and listen to YouTube.

 

[Webzcas]

How many times have you been nuked by Russia today?

• Just the once.
• Two to Three times.
• Four times.
• Five or more times.

 

[mack341]

Retired Major General Rupert Jones, son of Colonel H Jones who was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross after the Falklands Conflict, also agrees with my way of thinking. Cutting through the Russian controlled propaganda and bluster bs, like a knife through butter.

There is certainly no shortage of former generals, officers and experts that agree with you, especially on Times Radio and sky news etc...

Ultimately it leads to concluding anything we do against Russia in this conflict is risk free and also in our national interest, so that would include troops on the ground or a no fly zone being enforced. I don't believe this position stands up to strict logic and scrutiny, but I can understand it in terms of an emotional reaction to seeing a country attacked by a stronger foe, feeling it's unfair/evil and as a bystander with the means we must intervene.

I do find it strange how the generals etc...never talk about the other, real dangers and problems we face here in the uk, if they're experts in matters of national security and defence of the realm you'd think they would, unless of course they're puppets whose main interest now is knowing which side their bread is buttered.

 

[mack341]

This caveat from that Putin speech is interesting, 'massive':

"We will consider such a possibility upon receiving reliable information about a massive launch of aerospace attack means..."

So this directly gives him the wriggle room to ignore smaller strikes, would we in the west deploy the same flexibility in our doctrine or Nato's?

Apparently, several embassies in Kyiv closed down and evacuated because of warnings and info re an imminent massive air strike.

I think that's possibly what will happen, but at nighttime to increase the psychological fear to the public and difficulty for responders.

Edit: iirc the Chinese embassy in belgrade was 'accidently' bombed by Nato back in 1999.

 

[lockinlove]

The USA is used to bullying weak, out-dated countries and seems to be trying to do the same with Russia but Russia isnt putting up with it.

Time for the little kids to leave the playground (democrats) and let the adults take over so we dont get ourselves in a world war.

You can tell who lives in their moms basement though. They think it's funny to mock the situation. I have family in the US and Canadian military so unfortunately I have to be grown up about it and hope this gets dealt with in a grown up way while some of you eat cheetos and drink pink lemonade in moms basement.

So far seems like Trump is doing a good job keeping it calm

 

[mack341]

As far as one can tell, from the news etc...
the west and Nato are not stockpiling arms and equipment, or massively building up troop numbers in strategic areas in anticipation of a conventional war with Russia, despite this change in missile policy.

So if Russia did bomb a polish airfield or arms depot, would we go straight to a nuclear war setting?

Are we in a potential threads situation here, and we don't even realise it?

Then again if the media were to go into alarm mode, that in itself could result in unintended consequences, the rhetoric and misunderstandings then escalating matters.

 

[lockinlove]

With the egos and lunatics in power? It would be full out war I am sure. These democrats are begging for a reason. A direct attack on NATO would be war. It's their plan no doubt about it.

Ive been saying they are the party of war for awhile now, everyone knows it. If you support this democratic party, you have some very serious issues and must hate humanity existing.

 

[lockinlove]

Can Putin hold off until Trump gets in? I am not so sure. They are clearly doing everything possible (aside from having NATO strom Russia with troops) to escalate this into world war.

 

[lockinlove]

 

[goatwack]

 

[Webzcas]

Oh my god, we are now showing tweets from Tucker Carlson on this thread. Carlson the Putin apologist who even bored Vlad himself during his interview with him in Moscow

What next, Tim Poole and his kind?

Keep drinking the Russian Propaganda Kool Aid. They have you where they want you. What next, you going to quote Vladimir Solovyov as your source of (mis)information?

Anyhow they are not proper bunkers. You want a proper bunker, you need to give Ron at Atlas Survival Shelters a call.

 

[Kroffe]

You guys are overthinking it, simple is best.

 

[geordiecolin]

Why do most people use the word "literally", like literally every single time they have something to say . Like ffs, Vlad .

You literally have literally failed to be fully literal.
I will leave it for someone else to explain why.

 

[geordiecolin]

Can Putin hold off until Trump gets in? I am not so sure. They are clearly doing everything possible (aside from having NATO strom Russia with troops) to escalate this into world war.

It seems to me that Christmas and the season of good will has been old hat for a long time and other faiths are in vogue.
I will not be investing in a tree and decs this year due to it being false economy.

 

[lockinlove]

Oh my god, we are now showing tweets from Tucker Carlson on this thread. Carlson the Putin apologist who even bored Vlad himself during his interview with him in Moscow

What next, Tim Poole and his kind?

Keep drinking the Russian Propaganda Kool Aid. They have you where they want you. What next, you going to quote Vladimir Solovyov as your source of (mis)information?

Anyhow they are not proper bunkers. You want a proper bunker, you need to give Ron at Atlas Survival Shelters a call.

View attachment 203325

You should probably get on your meds. Your posts in here are complete dog shit. Keep hoping for war from mommies basement though! But just an fyi, nukes will affect you down there. So keep stockpiling cheetos. It wont save you!!

 

[geordiecolin]

Oh my god, we are now showing tweets from Tucker Carlson on this thread. Carlson the Putin apologist who even bored Vlad himself during his interview with him in Moscow

What next, Tim Poole and his kind?

Keep drinking the Russian Propaganda Kool Aid. They have you where they want you. What next, you going to quote Vladimir Solovyov as your source of (mis)information?

Anyhow they are not proper bunkers. You want a proper bunker, you need to give Ron at Atlas Survival Shelters a call.

View attachment 203325

I enjoy reading a lot of your posts but with this issue I just think you have a blind spot

 

[lockinlove]

Wish I could be that nice about it to him lol.

 

[geordiecolin]

Wish I could be that nice about it to him lol.

Maybe it is personal like the Israeli situation is personal to others?
I would rather listen to his opinion than not.
I got banned for giving my opinions a few years ago even though most of what I argued has became true- as well as breaking some rules while defending myself.
Maybe his opinion will prove to be true also in time and we are wrong?

 

[Guntis]

They have had those bunkers for sale since 2022, but I don't think anyone really cared about them because: 1) they're quite expensive for a regular family (this one pictured is about £80K), and 2) how long would you stay in there?

I think they could work for some people if they ordered such a bunker to be built in a spot that nobody knows about. Otherwise, it's likely useless.

• Radioactivity indicator DP-64(remote probe, 30m cable)
• Biotoilet
• Sliding door protective and hermetic with hydraulic lock (700x900)
• Automation and control unit for LSS parameters BOMBUK
• Uninterruptible power supply UPS (150Ah) for 24-hour communication
• Automation and lighting systems
• Power Plant 1500 W
• Sealed heat and noise insulation box for the generator
• and about 20 more features

I'd rather go shooting or be shot, than potentially be trapped in there, lol

 

[geordiecolin]

They have had those bunkers for sale since 2022, but I don't think anyone really cared about them because: 1) they're quite expensive for a regular family (this one pictured is about £80K), and 2) how long would you stay in there?

I think they could work for some people if they ordered such a bunker to be built in a spot that nobody knows about. Otherwise, it's likely useless.


View attachment 203327

View attachment 203330

• Radioactivity indicator DP-64(remote probe, 30m cable)
• Biotoilet
• Sliding door protective and hermetic with hydraulic lock (700x900)
• Automation and control unit for LSS parameters BOMBUK
• Uninterruptible power supply UPS (150Ah) for 24-hour communication
• Automation and lighting systems

Imagine the nightmare of ordering a takewaway

 

[lockinlove]

Maybe it is personal like the Israeli situation is personal to others?
I would rather listen to his opinion than not.
I got banned for giving my opinions a few years ago even though most of what I argued has became true- as well as breaking some rules while defending myself.
Maybe his opinion will prove to be true also in time and we are wrong?

We were already proven right. The USA started this war and has caused millions of Ukrainian and Russian deaths because of it. There is no going back..... and calling for more war and death from the warmth of his home is not a very stable look.

Im fine with various opinion though. I welcome them. But when Im the one doing surgeries on dying soldiers or treating ptsd or parents with mass depression, I have a different outlook than somebody sitting in a nice warm house far from danger or reality.

 

[geordiecolin]

We were already proven right. The USA started this war and has caused millions of Ukrainian and Russian deaths because of it. There is no going back..... and calling for more war and death from the warmth of his home is not a very stable look.

Im fine with various opinion though. I welcome them. But when Im the one doing surgeries on dying soldiers or treating ptsd or parents with mass depression, I have a different outlook than somebody sitting in a nice warm house far from danger or reality.

All respect to you for what you do. I think that I need a frontal labotomy but my doc does not agree-yet.
Any chance of you doing a cash in hand job?

 

[lockinlove]

All respect to you for what you do. I think that I need a frontal labotomy but my doc does not agree-yet.
Any chance of you doing a cash in hand job?

yes shall we begin?

 

[geordiecolin]

yes shall we begin?

View attachment 203332

Biatch. Do one

 

[lockinlove]

Biatch. Do one

I charge 1 trillion pesos. Half now and half when you wake up. Thats how confident I am in my practice!

 

[geordiecolin]

I charge 1 trillion pesos. Half now and half when you wake up. Thats how confident I am in my practice!

Oh god. Do I submit?

At this point I wonder if this conflict is just game playing with the use of needless lives?

 

[Guntis]

We were already proven right. The USA started this war and has caused millions of Ukrainian and Russian deaths because of it. There is no going back..... and calling for more war and death from the warmth of his home is not a very stable look.

Im fine with various opinion though. I welcome them. But when Im the one doing surgeries on dying soldiers or treating ptsd or parents with mass depression, I have a different outlook than somebody sitting in a nice warm house far from danger or reality.

+ in front of an Apple monitor and iPhone next to it

But jokes aside, Lockinlove, let the man talk. He likely hates all Russians since the time he was a casino affiliate and his site was scraped or hacked, which ended his business soon after. Somewhere i was reading this, and that's quite a disaster IMO.

The easiest was to assume they were Russians because who else could do such bad things if there were no more countries... No offense Dave.

Otherwise, why would one hate a whole nation if Russia has never done anything bad to the UK? Salisbury poisoning? So what - likely Russia removed a bad Russian man., that's all.

However, every day many Muslims here do insane stuff, including child rapes - but everyone and the govt are scared as fuck to open a mouth - and that's because they're here everywhere, and dangerous. Russia is far away and has no real danger, which makes it the best opportunity, especially for weak people, to sing any songs they want.

 

[lockinlove]

+ in front of an Apple monitor and iPhone next to it

But jokes aside, Lockinlove, let the man talk. He likely hates all Russians since the time he was a casino affiliate and his site was scraped or hacked, which ended his business soon after. Somewhere i was reading this, and that's quite a disaster IMO.

The easiest was to assume they were Russians because who else could do such bad things if there were no more countries... No offense Dave.

Otherwise, why would one hate a whole nation if Russia has never done anything bad to the UK? Salisbury poisoning? So what - likely Russia removed a bad Russian man., that's all.

However, every day many Muslims here do insane stuff, including child rapes - but everyone and the govt are scared as fuck to open a mouth - and that's because they're here everywhere, and dangerous. Russia is far away and has no real danger, which makes it the best opportunity, especially for weak people, to sing any songs they want.

I was happy to see a muslim sentenced for raping one of our children here in Canada to 14 years today. Sadly, that wouldnt have happened if Justin Scumbag Trudeau didnt allow them all to pour in here.

Things will change in North America at least once the libs/dems are gone. Mass deportation by both parties.

Still not sure why we allowed rapists and drug lords to pour in here.

 

[Guntis]

I was happy to see a muslim sentenced for raping one of our children here in Canada to 14 years today. Sadly, that wouldnt have happened if Justin Scumbag Trudeau didnt allow them all to pour in here.

Things will change in North America at least once the libs/dems are gone. Mass deportation by both parties.

Still not sure why we allowed rapists and drug lords to pour in here.

Here they often let them go or just give insignificant punishments. But at least there is a group of British patriots, i don't remember what they're called - they catch those bastids, and report to the police. Twitter is full of them and i posted a couple in the WTF thread.

 

[mack341]

Doubtful this former RAF instructor will be interviewed by the msm anytime soon:

 

[sufferinsilence]

Wait, I'm confused I think. Did the USA (or the "West") start this whole conflict by annexing Crimea in 2014? Because as far as I'm aware it was the Russians.

As far as I know there wouldn't be any rockets or drones flying into Russia if they weren't occupying Ukraine. Yet Ukraine should be fine with Russia bombing their territory and they would only be allowed to defend themselves in their own country without trying to take out Russian arms depots and distribution lines like roads and train lines?

I don't think @Webzcas thinks ALL Russians are bad. But I can't think for him of course. What I can say is I don't think all Russians are bad just like not all Muslims are bad, most likely the majority of them are good people. Most likely they're also the silent majority who don't want to cause any trouble for themselves or their family. Because we all know how it goes when you politically oppose Putin, all of a sudden you find yourself being suicided by falling from a 10th floor balcony.

 

[Guntis]

Some good people from Neo-Eco, a French construction company, agreed to help rebuild destroyed apartment blocks outside Kyiv, but all ended like this:

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.

 

[mack341]

Wait, I'm confused I think. Did the USA (or the "West") start this whole conflict by annexing Crimea in 2014? Because as far as I'm aware it was the Russians.

As far as I know there wouldn't be any rockets or drones flying into Russia if they weren't occupying Ukraine. Yet Ukraine should be fine with Russia bombing their territory and they would only be allowed to defend themselves in their own country without trying to take out Russian arms depots and distribution lines like roads and train lines?

I don't think @Webzcas thinks ALL Russians are bad. But I can't think for him of course. What I can say is I don't think all Russians are bad just like not all Muslims are bad, most likely the majority of them are good people. Most likely they're also the silent majority who don't want to cause any trouble for themselves or their family. Because we all know how it goes when you politically oppose Putin, all of a sudden you find yourself being suicided by falling from a 10th floor balcony.

It would totally be ok for them to do this, but not for us on their behalf. That is entering into direct combat with a country which has the largest nuclear deterrent/arsenal.

A military history, proud in their eyes, of fighting back against huge invasions.

If the west want to do this, go to their parliaments in our freedom loving democracies, and vote it through. Warn Russia if you do not remove your troops from Ukraine territory and cease attacks, then we will attack you.

That's the proper way if you feel this is the just and moral action, and we're not frightened of russia or the risks from escalation, not this sly approach of denial while lobbing missiles onto their territory.

Only my opinion of course.

 

[lockinlove]

Wait, I'm confused I think. Did the USA (or the "West") start this whole conflict by annexing Crimea in 2014? Because as far as I'm aware it was the Russians.

As far as I know there wouldn't be any rockets or drones flying into Russia if they weren't occupying Ukraine. Yet Ukraine should be fine with Russia bombing their territory and they would only be allowed to defend themselves in their own country without trying to take out Russian arms depots and distribution lines like roads and train lines?

I don't think @Webzcas thinks ALL Russians are bad. But I can't think for him of course. What I can say is I don't think all Russians are bad just like not all Muslims are bad, most likely the majority of them are good people. Most likely they're also the silent majority who don't want to cause any trouble for themselves or their family. Because we all know how it goes when you politically oppose Putin, all of a sudden you find yourself being suicided by falling from a 10th floor balcony.

Look into the history of it. There was direct evidence that the USA had plans to put their first Nato base in Crimea. Head of NATO even stated that Crimea was a danger.

There was an agreement between Russia and the USA since the 90's that ukraine would not be part of NATO or advance their bases east.

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In 2014 the USA intefered in the Ukrainian elections to have a pro NATO pro USA president in power where they would supply Ukraine with billions of dollars in weaponry and training and future NATO bases.

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Yes the USA is directly to blame for the Russian/Ukraine war taking place right now. Putin requested over and over for the US to honor their agreement and stay away from the East.

Should we take the USA word for it if they deny this? No. Aside from evidence suggesting this is true, all we need to do is look at the history of what they have done as a country. Iraq, Libya and..... their attempt in Syria that was thwarted by the the Russians and now their support for Israel


Aside from all of the above, we really need to stop pretending that Ukraine was some glorious country. It's riddled with KKK and nazi's, crime, money laundering, bribery and total corruption.

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Now is that enough reason to invade a country like Russia did? Maybe. Maybe not. But it sure makes me understand where Putin may be coming from. The USA has invaded numerous countries for a whole lot less than these examples. A whole lot...and continue to do so.

I do not recall anyone calling for the death and destruction of the USA after invading Iraq for no reason and killing tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians. But because the media and twitter tell you Russia is the big bad monster, the public eats it up. How about people start pointing the finger at the big bad war machine called the USA