Are Slot Streamers a Threat to the Online Gaming industry in the UK? You decide - read the article at Casino Gazette!

Kroffe

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It's tough to put exact numbers on, because what little data exists is inherently unreliable - but the average age across all of the platform seems to be in the early 20s - something like 1 in 5 are under 18, and 2 in 5 are under 21.
Thats surprising, i tried to find some numbers myself just now and the majority seems to be in the 16-35 bracket.
I knew there was a lot of 20+ people on twitch, i just assumed they would be heavily outnumbered by the 12 year olds watching minecraft, roblox and whatnot.

I still think sexual stuff and gambling should be kept off the site, even if the majority of people visiting the site is 18+ there is still a lot of kids using the site.
 

satchnz

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…Also not "when they turn 18"... if you have a read of the Stake review here on CM, you'll see how lax their KYC processes are…

I agree with most of what you said but the quote above. I didn’t last a day on stake.com before I was KYC’d (from here in the UK) so I abandoned my account.
 

justdoit

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The casino grounds mob said that was in the works about a year or 2 ago they wer supposedly building their own platform nick and Kim mentioned it a few times on streams, don’t know how far it got to the development stage, the trouble they had got on YouTube streamers started to get a bit twitchy
nick give up streaming, leo vegas owns 51% of casino grounds, kim was hoping leovegas will invest
 

justdoit

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I've had a look through the /slots category to generate some viewership numbers out of curiosity - as of around 45 minutes ago (2345 BST), there were 84.8k viewers across all the streams, of which 57 channels had 100 or more viewers:

SiteStatus (from 18/10)CountViewershipNotes
StakeExplicitly banned20 channels56k (66%) / 49k (57%)At least one channel blatantly viewbotting
(3 day old account, 4k follows, 7k viewers, 20 in chat)
GamdomImplicitly banned2 channels7.5k (9%)
RollbitExplicitly banned2 channels5.2k (6%)
RoobetExplicitly banned1 channel0.7k (1%)
Other CryptoProbably banned16 channels6.2k (7%)
Real Money StreamsProbably OK15 channels5.1k (6%)
Demo Play:confused:1 channel0.2kYes, I actually found one 🤣
Under 100 viewers155 channels3.5k (4%)Mostly crypto casinos or bot accounts

Admittedly this will be skewed slightly because some - but not all - of the European streamers have gone to bed, but around 90% of /slots viewership in the sample belong to channels that are expected to be banned under the new rules. Additionally, VirtualCasino (overlaying another video game) had 19k viewers with a similar mix of crypto streamers.

By comparison: Poker had 10k, Crypto (overlaying an old NES game) had 3k, and Sports (which includes everything, not just sports betting) had 11k viewers.
you can still play in stake or any other crypto and stream in twitch, but you cant show their log or share any code, so they not real banned they banned to advertise crypto casinos, if this streamers are rich like they saying, they should not be worry, like Drake his rich but I dont think he will stream again lose $32m on roulette
Screenshot 2022-09-24 at 09.37.15.png
 
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Guntis

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That's likely until the 18th of October, the date when they'll have a new policy regarding streaming gambling sites with slots, roulette, etc
 

andysbetting1187

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I saw that this was discussed by ClassyBeefs mods on stream this week; i don't watch it but stubmled into it just seeing if anything was being mentioned.

Apparently they are not concerned - they will jsut move to a new streaming platform. I can see the likes of Stake potentially just setting their own up and then they can do what they want.
 

jasonuk

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you can still play in stake or any other crypto and stream in twitch, but you cant show their log or share any code, so they not real banned they banned to advertise crypto casinos, if this streamers are rich like they saying, they should not be worry, like Drake his rich but I dont think he will stream again lose $32m on roulette
View attachment 172978
As @Guntis said, that's the existing policy introduced in August 2021. As many suspected at the time, it did sod all as the dopamine hits continued with "join our discord for the latest and greatest offers" instead of "click the link below the stream". The incoming rule change in October 2022 is much more substantial.

I remember watching the Drake stream for a bit, I commented to friends when he looked so disinterested at spinning $1m a round "wait until he hits a piece of something, and he'll go absolutely mental - and that'll be the clip that goes viral on social media", which of course is what happened... it's so predictable. The most curious part of that stream was when Pragmatic went down, and he reluctantly went to play on Evolution for a few spins - given the streaming obsession with Pragmatic games, I suspect they're charging a lot lower provider fees than Evolution would?
 

jasonuk

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I agree with most of what you said but the quote above. I didn’t last a day on stake.com before I was KYC’d (from here in the UK) so I abandoned my account.
That's a fair observation - and the process will vary by location, by spend, and over time.

Without external oversight, the process will be somewhat arbitrary... so I can only go off information from published sources. If an investigator went through discord logs around the time these streamers were onboarded, I imagine it would be a gold mine of examples (as I observed when a streamer I used to follow took the poisoned chalice - I left days later when he did a collaboration with the twat with a hat).

I saw that this was discussed by ClassyBeefs mods on stream this week; i don't watch it but stubmled into it just seeing if anything was being mentioned.

Apparently they are not concerned - they will jsut move to a new streaming platform. I can see the likes of Stake potentially just setting their own up and then they can do what they want.
Twitch will need to stay on the ball because we're already seeing a return of viewbot channels promoting said casino. YouTube have taken a more aggressive stance previously and it's much more difficult for them to game the discoverability algorithm, so while that'll be the path in the short term, I'm curious how that plays out in the longer term.

As you say, if they set up their own community / streaming platform, then there's not much we as a community can do at that point beyond education. Out of sight perhaps, but certainly not out of mind...

Come off it you really believe Drake is using his own funds ............... he's just as bad as the rest of them....
It's scary how many people continue to believe the "streamer money" line... I was surprised that XQC published how much he'd wagered, because it's the strongest number that confirms that it's monopoly money - at EV, he's lost his estimated net worth two or three times over already.

As for Drake, you'd think someone "punting" 10-15% of their net worth in an hour would be interested enough to pay attention 🤣 - perhaps that's why they were more concerned when Pragmatic went offline... unlike their monopoly money, the thousands per spin that Evolution charged them was very real...
 
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jasonuk

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Big Crypto they target big starts with big offers, they offer him $40m god know how much they offer Drake
You're confusing two different transactions though:
  • the significant amount of money paid for affiliation
  • the significant amount of "money" gambled and lost on stream
People naively assume both are real money... but they don't have to be. Additionally Drake is part owner of the site, so they don't necessarily have to offer him anything...
 

justdoit

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You're confusing two different transactions though:
  • the significant amount of money paid for affiliation
  • the significant amount of "money" gambled and lost on stream
People naively assume both are real money... but they don't have to be. Additionally Drake is part owner of the site, so they don't necessarily have to offer him anything...
real money? they get top up every 10mins u joking
Screenshot 2022-09-24 at 20.38.50.png
 

slotmaster

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Well, that is good for sure. The problem is I was going to do a hangout get-together stream once my health and I feel better, currently on a asked for "cooling-off" period and taking a break from Socially being online.

So will have to see if able to even do that on twitch or youtube.
 

goatwack

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For every placebo prohibition Twitch put in place to oversee gambling content, you can be sure that companies with unlimited financial clout will always find ways to circumvent them, and be a step ahead.

Twitch are merely paying lip-service to social responsibility and are more than complicit in even allowing these mediums onto their site, including borderline soft porn. Because ultimately, it makes them rather minted.

Shame then, as at its conception it was a dedicated gaming site, before the vultures and unscrupulous grifters came a-knockin', all with a ready-made userbase of impressionable youngsters seeking electronic kicks, and with the lines of digital entertainment in all its guises ever-blurring. And what kid doesn't want to see easy money being made, so as to buy.....more video games! This lark is a piece of cake! And the guy's doing a funny dance!

Really not decided on who takes the biggest share of the blame, but the buck stops with Twitch for allowing this 'content' to begin with, much like leaving one's front door open and popping out for the day, only to find your house ransacked. Then proceeding to do it again, but installing a Google Nest security camera to 'really show the burglars what's up'. It's a contrived nonsense by Twitch.

So enablers they most certainly are, and if they cared so much about the harmful effects on its unsuspecting userbase, they'd tell them to 'kindly be gone' from their platform, as opposed to the 'don't click on those links y'all!" BS

Far better these money-lusting soulless shills and gambling companies form their own platform of decadence if they so wished, but of course not. Far easier to hijack and subvert a non-gambling-related host and sell one's wares!

I'll be taking Twitch's new rules with a large grain of salt if you don't mind, the clowns. Honk honk! :cool:
 

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More on this...

Ha ha, that article links to an article on Eurogamer who I back in 2018 contacted because they featured my stream picture in their article! I had to correct them!
 

jasonuk

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So today is the big day...

While it's early hours, there is a considerable drop in both streams and viewership:
Category7 day lowBallpark Current
/slots17k viewers25-50k viewers, 100-125 streams7.9k viewers, 80 streams
/virtualcasino1.3k viewers4-6k viewers, 40 streams2.3k viewers, 30 streams

As a result /slots has dropped outside the top 25 for possibly the first time in a while - and combined gambling content (including poker) would be #15.

Of those, the biggest streamer (at 2.4k) hasn't realised what the date is, and I imagine will be getting a nice letter from Mr Twitch fairly soon. Of the six channels I flagged up just now, one of the bot channels has already been banned.

I know this isn't the end - many channels have gone to YouTube, some are trying to hide that they're streaming crypto slots (and failing miserably), someone affiliated and/or working with Stake keeps deploying bot channels that get banned after a few hours, and I'm still expecting some sports betting shenanigans such as the example mentioned by @The Viking above.

One step in the right direction at least?

<edit>updated to include more stats</edit>
 

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dunover

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So today is the big day...

While it's early hours, there is a considerable drop in both streams and viewership - the seven day low seems to be around 17k and audiences around this time tend to be in the 20-50k ballpark, it's currently 7.9k... which means it has dropped outside the top 25 for possibly the first time in a while.

Of those, the biggest streamer (at 2.4k) hasn't realised what the date is, and I imagine will be getting a nice letter from Mr Twitch fairly soon. Of the six channels I flagged up just now, one of the bot channels has already been banned.

I know this isn't the end - many channels have gone to YouTube, some are trying to hide that they're streaming crypto slots (and failing miserably), someone affiliated and/or working with Stake keeps deploying bot channels that get banned after a few hours, and I'm still expecting some sports betting shenanigans such as the example mentioned by @The Viking above.

One step in the right direction at least?
Out of the frying pan into the fire - Twitch, being newer and a rival to YT clearly never worried too much about standards until now, whereas YT will pretty soon put a stop to any crapola of this type. Unlike Twatch, they never permitted gambling transactional links so if they think the grass is greener on YT, they'll be quickly disillusioned.
 

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