Roguish Tradition Casino and likely all Rival casinos are Rogue. All Evidence shown here.

[4 of a kind]

This time is exactly like other cases i have choice to listen your complaints and arrange solutions OR i have choice to consider that i have the right to consider that i don't care about players complaints. Thx to understand that nothing force me to act if my opinion is different from yours : if i take a decision, it's because i agree with you, no need to imagine that someone or something forced me. I'm not a kid, i'm closed enough invested in my work for knowing what is fair and what is not fair.

"This time is exactly like other cases"

Sorry Tradition I don't agree with your comment here. This is not about quicker payouts or petty bullshit bonuses. This is about cheating, whether on purpose or not.

"Thx to understand that nothing force me to act if my opinion is different from yours : if i take a decision, it's because i agree with you, no need to imagine that someone or something forced me".

I could only assume this tough talk is a result of no fear what so ever of any regulations being enforced upon you or any investigation, or any fine, or much of anything else. I guess there would be "no need to imagine" that the gaming commission who gave you an operators license has any intentions of being the "someone or something" forcing anything on you.

You see this is exactly my point with this issue and all other serious issues brought forward in the past. Regardless what Tradition says or does about this incident, it is completely up to her. She blatantly told us above she's not a kid and will do whatever it is she decides on. And whatever that may be, we only get to listen to her decision, and if we don't like it I guess we could stick our computer mouses where the sun don't shine.

Top Game told us they put the 100k jackpot back. I guess because they told us that it must have happened. CasinoJack told us they could follow us around and change the RTP's at will. Someone else told us they couldn't. I guess since someone else told us they couldn't it must be true. They tell us when a random is hit with a max cash out bonus the remainder is always put back into the jackpot. I guess since someone told us this, it must be true. BlackJack felt says 3 to 2 for BJ, but only pays 1 to 1. Sorry, they tell us it was an honest mistake. Since they said this I guess it must be true. Do you see where I'm going with this?

I'd like to see just one of these issues being confronted by some type of gaming regulator wherever these gaming commissions are or if they even realistically exist.

I also couldn't understand WagerWitch trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the casino, but could only conclude it is a result of her not understanding the game. Besides if they could pick and choose who they want to screw just by bet size, then we're really in deeper shit then we could of imagined.

With:

NO GAMING COMMISSION
NO GAMING COMMISSION ENFORCEMENT

I feel safer playing at a casino run by the Mafia.

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

"This time is exactly like other cases"

Sorry Tradition I don't agree with your comment here. This is not about quicker payouts or petty bullshit bonuses. This is about cheating, whether on purpose or not.

"Thx to understand that nothing force me to act if my opinion is different from yours : if i take a decision, it's because i agree with you, no need to imagine that someone or something forced me".

I could only assume this tough talk is a result of no fear what so ever of any regulations being enforced upon you or any investigation, or any fine, or much of anything else. I guess there would be "no need to imagine" that the gaming commission who gave you an operators license has any intentions of being the "someone or something" forcing anything on you.

You see this is exactly my point with this issue and all other serious issues brought forward in the past. Regardless what Tradition says or does about this incident, it is completely up to her. She blatantly told us above she's not a kid and will do whatever it is she decides on. And whatever that may be, we only get to listen to her decision, and if we don't like it I guess we could stick our computer mouses where the sun don't shine.

Top Game told us they put the 100k jackpot back. I guess because they told us that it must have happened. CasinoJack told us they could follow us around and change the RTP's at will. Someone else told us they couldn't. I guess since someone else told us they couldn't it must be true. They tell us when a random is hit with a max cash out bonus the remainder is always put back into the jackpot. I guess since someone told us this, it must be true. BlackJack felt says 3 to 2 for BJ, but only pays 1 to 1. Sorry, they tell us it was an honest mistake. Since they said this I guess it must be true. Do you see where I'm going with this?

I'd like to see just one of these issues being confronted by some type of gaming regulator wherever these gaming commissions are or if they even realistically exist.

I also couldn't understand WagerWitch trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the casino, but could only conclude it is a result of her not understanding the game. Besides if they could pick and choose who they want to screw just by bet size, then we're really in deeper shit then we could of imagined.

With:

NO GAMING COMMISSION
NO GAMING COMMISSION ENFORCEMENT

I feel safer playing at a casino run by the Mafia.

I agree with you 100% 4oak...I also found tradition comments to be very arrogant.

 

[Pinababy69]

WW, if you read back in the thread there was another player (refre I believe was his name) who was betting lower and noticed it also. So it was not just the $100 bets.

You are right RedAndi..it was Freddy/Refre. And proof that this had been going on for a month. And proof that even after he informed them of it....they did squat about it, even though they told him it had been "fixed". Outright lie.

I had the exact same problem at Tradition casino the 22. of last month.
Of course I realize now I should have posted here back then.
They claimed "we have made some updates to ensure that this does not occur again". Obviously they didn't.

Freddy

Top Game told us they put the 100k jackpot back. I guess because they told us that it must have happened.

Yes, and it turns out that Topgame lied as well didn't they? After trying to backpedal and even deny that any progressive JP had been removed...they finally admitted that jackpots on two discontinued games had been removed. And you know what they did with the money? Used it to reimburse the players who had played the cheating games, back when the whole mess started....ha ha. Can't remember the exact figures, but I'm pretty sure the jackpots totalled over 400K. I find it hard to imagine they reimbursed people to the tune of $400,000 plus!! And even if they did....they used player funds which are supposed to be set aside and separate...to pay players who were cheated because of their malfunctioning games. That 400K should have been reassigned to other progressive jackpots within the software. What a load of BS!!

Link to the thread where we finally got the answer 4oak, just in case you missed it:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/top-game-missing-jackpot-questions.36069/

 

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

Tradition casino has been busted changing the blackjack payout. No if's, no buts, no excuses, no semantics, no justifications, end of story.

If the casino manager chooses to have attitude instead of understand players have a right to be upset, that's her decision. It's certainly not the road I'd take, but it's her choice.

The CM community much less all Tradition casino players are yet to view an official public statement by the Rival CEO.
Instead we and everyone else has to make do with hearsay on a phone call between CM and the Rival CEO.

The arrogant attitude from the Tradition manager (highlighted above) is (in my opinion) a carbon copy of the Rival CEO.

In my eyes this type of performance shows very little respect for Rival customers; the casino players, who without them Rival would have nothing.

On the flip however, Rival like other casinos (not all), treat their players with little appreciation or respect. They set ambiguous rules, don't stand by their word unless it's in writing; even then some will try to get out of it. And when a player has the fortune of cashing out, can make it a nightmare of hoop jumping to get their rightful winnings.

In affect players are at the mercy of the casinos.
Why is this so? You may ask.

I suppose because although players will b!tch and moan about casino XYZ they'll return and deposit, instead of going some place else.

As an analogy it's like going to a restaurant, finding a fly in the soup, roaches on the floor and going home b!tching about it. But returning to the same restaurant finding the same critters and the same cr#p service. The movie Groundhog Day (Bill Murray) comes to mind.

Doing nothing gives the message you don't care if:

• You don't get paid within industry accepted time frames.
• Your a loyal player and you get bonus banned.
• Your forced to jump through hoops.
• Casinos sets min/max cash-in requirements on bonuses and insane play through requirements.
• Rules are set to a win win for casinos.
• Ect...ect

IMO until players take a stand and vote with their feet, we'll keep seeing all the above.

Behavior like this doesn't happen at B&M casinos (least not those I attend) and it shouldn't occur at online casinos either.

If and when online casinos are properly regulated IMO these cowboys will cease to exist.



Cheers



Dave

 

[coxwel]

i myself stopped playing at tradition some months ago due to the arrogant comments in another thread where the subject was about bonusses.

imho with such an attitude tradition should maybe hire a person with social skills etc to post on boards.

imho this is more than disrespectful for players and anybody who knows most rival casinos iam sure hell never ever choose tradition.

tradition rep said shes not a kid? ok! but in such a heavy case where the pyaout was changed which can be considered cheating! such comments doesnt prove the rep for beeing an adult thinking person knowing how to handle such situatuions accordingly.

@ tradition: you give me the impression if i as player ever have any problem with your casino it depends on your good-will if you cooperate in solving issues or not.. imho this is unbelievable and i wont put any bad words here..


just my opinion on this..

stay with sloto they now how to run a casino and treat customers right,. thats also why you rarely find any negative posts about them like on tradition


cheers

coxwel

 

[bernynhel]

Jeez, only 300+ posts and counting... I got one word in reply: SlotoCash & Box24

 

[binshakindown]

I realize that Tradition was caught ripping off an unknown number of players. So where does it stand with the rest of the rival based casinos?

My gut feeling says that this thread will in fact, fade away and probably be very welcomed relief to many operators.

The thing I don't comprehend is why a software provider like Rival, RTG or insert brand here would allow any software user to make changes to anything that would change the outcome of the game being played (weighting of reels, RTP, pay tables, etc or anything that effects the outcome, excluding bet size).

The fact that the software providers have apparently allowed certain operators major advantages over other operators using the same software implies that this provider software is a joke and cannot be trusted. I guess I have been fool to think that it doesn't matter which casino you play at as long as it is the same software platform. I am confused now. If the software provider can manipulate outcomes between operators, why don't the casino's that have a higher RTP than another advertise this saying, "We requested that the software provider lower our RTP. But we were denied. Our loss, your gain!!! Plus we will give you a gazillion dollars in bonus money since we like pain and can't help ourselves."

I can see the provider allowing for changes to the lobby skin, themes, colors, borders, and bet size. If the operator is operating on a shoe string budget, then great, they can set the max bet size is $0.05 per line or max bet of $XX. If the operator running the casino doesn't have a problem making $100,000 payouts in 24 hours, then that operator could if they wanted, have a max bet size of $100.00 per line or a max bet of $XXXXX. That way the games in theory would be identical between operators and the casinos would actually have to give a shit about their customers (not saying that all casinos do that).

I can say that this thread does not promote nor build my confidence in the whole industry, since it seems that every on-line casino is honest until they are caught. A few posts above blame this all on the lack of regulation (I assume they meant government regulation). I disagree. Just look within almost any country and ask why are there still criminals, folks in jail, people put to death, people paying fines; corrupt politicians, magistrates, and police all in places where there is probably too much regulation. Nope, regulation is just another way to say revenue, power, and control (to some probably not a bad thing). Of course this is my opinion. I just don't see how regulation is going to help the on-line gaming industry, unless we have one world government. Then all casinos, both B&M and on-line would pay the world government a large slice of the pie to regulate them. Nope, the power of the purse I say, and of course, the constant, relentless watchful eyes of Casinomiester et al. and it's many diverse members.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I realize that Tradition was caught ripping off an unknown number of players. So where does it stand with the rest of the rival based casinos?

My gut feeling says that this thread will in fact, fade away and probably be very welcomed relief to many operators.

The thing I don't comprehend is why a software provider like Rival, RTG or insert brand here would allow for any changes to the weighting of reels, RTP, pay tables, etc or anything that effects the . I could see allowing for changes to the lobby skin, themes, colors, borders, and bet size. If the operator is operating on a shoe string budget, then great, they can set the max bet size is $0.05 per line or max bet of $XX. If the operator running the casino doesn't have a problem making $100,000 payouts in 24 hours, then that operator could if they wanted, have a max bet size of $100.00 per line or a max bet of $XXXXX. That way the games in theory would be identical between operators and the casinos would actually have to give a shit about their customers (not saying that all casinos do that).

I can say that this thread does not promote nor build my confidence in the whole industry, since it seems that every on-line casino is honest until they are caught. A few posts above blame this all on the lack of regulation (I assume they meant government regulation). I disagree. Just look within almost any country and ask why are there still criminals, folks in jail, people put to death, people paying fines; corrupt politicians, magistrates, and police all in places where there is probably too much regulation. Nope, regulation is just another way to say revenue, power, and control (to some probably not a bad thing). Of course this is my opinion. I just don't see how regulation is going to help the on-line gaming industry, unless we have one world government. Then all casinos, both B&M and on-line would pay the world government a large slice of the pie to regulate them. Nope, the power of the purse I say, and of course, the constant, relentless watchful eyes of Casinomiester et al. and it's many diverse members.

Agree regulation is not the answer but perhaps an improvement. www.thebeargrowls.com.

I was accused of cryptic PM's by Bryan in this thread in regards to my Rivals/Bonne Chance/All the Rival skins PM's over the past few years. Sorry, I respectfully and totally disagree as 99% of all my PM's are direct (which differs from my periodic and intended cryptic posts). The Rival PM's were crystal clear to Bryan with possibly one exception. I can not post his but I can post mine and will. (after The Masters).

 

[4 of a kind]

Yes, we started to review all our blackjack hands and whom have had a BJ during this period. It will be finished probably next week.

This was posted 03/30, and I'm sure many of us here are waiting patiently for the alleged results. Tuesday 04/13 will be two weeks. Are you counting on the fade away?

In addition this review is obviously being conducted between Tradition and its software provider. Considering no outside regulatory enforcement agency or outside independent auditing firm will be involved, (nor had any intentions to ever get involved) why should us players assume your response if any will be accurate and honest?

Never mind, I keep forgetting this is unregulated online casinos, and whatever we're told by whoever wants to tell us must be honest. After all you would have to conclude over the past decade online casinos proven reputation is one of genuine honesty, integrity, loyalty, and generous.

 

[AussieDave]

Tradition feed Refre hogwash about the BJ issue on the 22'nd Feb 2010. And continued to lie throughout this thread until pushed into a corner.

The answer she (Tradition Manager) gave was further fabrication based on the issue Refre experienced with the BJ on the 22'nd.

This was posted 03/30, and I'm sure many of us here are waiting patiently for the alleged results. Tuesday 04/13 will be two weeks. Are you counting on the fade away?

Yep that's exactly what she's doing.
Truth be know, it's a cover up probably on instruction from Rival. Keep in mind Tradition is another white label.

Going on how this thread has played out, I don't see we'll ever get a straight answer to what some of us know is the truth.

But if it's any comfort, know that Tradition has been blacklisted by some webmaster, who are now keeping a close watch on all Rival brands.



Cheers



Dave

 

[AussieDave]

Hi All,

Found this over at AGD today. Tradition Casino has been changing affiliate terms post sign-ups.

Link Removed (invalid URL)

Using this information I'm guessing the BJ incident wasn't an accident


Cheers



Dave

 

[Dinahnana]

I have been following this thread with great interest as the whole saga unfolded. I followed that link to AGD and read about what Tradition is doing to its affiliates and I am completely appalled.
I have uninstalled Tradition a little while ago due to what I am seeing here over at Casinomeister land. The thing that bothers be almost as much as the shady doings of this casino is the way the owner talks to players and affiliates.
It seems that some of the responses are completely bereft of even a modicum of professionalism. Even if Tradition cleaned up its act, which I highly doubt it, will I still would not play there ever again based on how the owner of the casino treats both players and affilates.
You know what I really don’t get about this whole debacle is why the owner chose to take the aggressive approach instead of just admitting that mistakes were made and correct them as best as she could. If I were a bigwig over at Rival, I would be shocked at how this casino represents my software and pull the plug on Tradition.

I have a new respect for affiliates and all the crap they have to go through just to earn a couple of bucks. I also think that any casino that bites the hand that feeds them (tradition though just went ahead and bit the hand clean off) will end up going bankrupt sooner than later. Without affiliates, they would not get any business at all.

 

[RedAndi]

LOL, holy snikes!

I don't know much about how affiliates work but after reading that thread I can not even believe the owner or rep. or whatever is a "real" business person. Language barrier or not, how the hell do you go to a public forum and make those kind of statements and expect anyone to take you seriously????

"Never i could imagine how affiliates can be so liers! You make me sick and give me need to vomit."
Seriously!?!?

You sure he/she isn't a long lost sibling of that chat rep. from a while back (I think it won worst chat of the year or something, JHV's was the OP I think)...

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi All,
Found this over at AGD today. Tradition Casino has been changing affiliate terms post sign-ups.

Link Removed (invalid URL)

Using this information I'm guessing the BJ incident wasn't an accident

I disagree. The management have shown themselves to be sloppy and incompetent - so making a stupid mistake with the BJ payout is no big surprise.
Remember when they launched they had a MASSIVE free-chip offer with a 24hr time limit which made it virtually impossibly to complete the WR? Just sloppy and not well thought out.

There is a HUGE difference between their reactions to the 2 key kock-ups:
The BJ incident: They admitted they made a mistake, they apologised and are/have put it right by refunding players who lost out.
The affiliate issue: They admitted they made a mistake, they refused to apologize or make any attempt to put it right and have now resorted to calling affiliates "liars who make them sick..."

I really hope someone high up at Rival reads these threads and sees what the manager at one of their white labels is up to - she is single-handedly wrecking Rivals reputation!

KK

 

[chuchu59]

So Tradition is either:-

(a) a grossly incompetent person who is unable to run a business given her long list of clumsy mistakes and will probably fail in any venture of that sort let alone one that is related to gambling or

(b) a big fat liar who resorts to blaming new staff for what is essentially her own fault.

Personally, I vouch for (b) but we never know really.

 

[AussieDave]

I disagree. The management have shown themselves to be sloppy and incompetent - so making a stupid mistake with the BJ payout is no big surprise.
Remember when they launched they had a MASSIVE free-chip offer with a 24hr time limit which made it virtually impossibly to complete the WR? Just sloppy and not well thought out.

There is a HUGE difference between their reactions to the 2 key kock-ups:
The BJ incident: They admitted they made a mistake, they apologised and are/have put it right by refunding players who lost out.
The affiliate issue: They admitted they made a mistake, they refused to apologize or make any attempt to put it right and have now resorted to calling affiliates "liars who make them sick..."

I really hope someone high up at Rival reads these threads and sees what the manager at one of their white labels is up to - she is single-handedly wrecking Rivals reputation!

Sorry but I don't agree.

The entire mess is not about separating players and affiliates. Which is what I see you attempting to do.

Tradition has successfully alienated both camps. Finally admitting the truth to players when backed into a corner by her own BS (in this thread), for me doesn't count for much.

Conducting the same Modus Operandi with affiliates until she was again backed into a corner where she had no choice but to admit the truth to affiliates.

Whether she gives affs an apology, fixes the BJ issue and pays players who got shafted is beside the point.

The fact that she BS many times to both players and affiliates shows her true colours in my book.

What a wicked web we weave when we try to deceiving, comes to mind.

To me if it walks like duck, quacks like a duck then most probably it is a duck. And in the case of Tradition casino it's a duck



Cheers



Dave

 

[LaurieJim]

Sorry but I don't agree.

The entire mess is not about separating players and affiliates. Which is what I see you attempting to do.

Tradition has successfully alienated both camps. Finally admitting the truth to players when backed into a corner by her own BS (in this thread), for me doesn't count for much.

Conducting the same Modus Operandi with affiliates until she was again backed into a corner where she had no choice but to admit the truth to affiliates.

Whether she gives affs an apology, fixes the BJ issue and pays players who got shafted is beside the point.

The fact that she BS many times to both players and affiliates shows her true colours in my book.

What a wicked web we weave when we try to deceiving, comes to mind.

To me if it walks like duck, quacks like a duck then most probably it is a duck. And in the case of Tradition casino it's a duck



Cheers



Dave

Can you say Quack Quack

 

[jas2587]

LOL, holy snikes!

I don't know much about how affiliates work but after reading that thread I can not even believe the owner or rep. or whatever is a "real" business person. Language barrier or not, how the hell do you go to a public forum and make those kind of statements and expect anyone to take you seriously????

"Never i could imagine how affiliates can be so liers! You make me sick and give me need to vomit."
Seriously!?!?

You sure he/she isn't a long lost sibling of that chat rep. from a while back (I think it won worst chat of the year or something, JHV's was the OP I think)...

Sorry not all Affilates are liars we are human beins just like you but there are some that are snakes in the grass you have to be very careful


GamblersGoWildCindy

 

[Pulver]

Hi All,

Found this over at AGD today. Tradition Casino has been changing affiliate terms post sign-ups.

Link Removed (invalid URL)

Using this information I'm guessing the BJ incident wasn't an accident


Cheers



Dave

I am speechless...

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Sorry not all Affilates are liars we are human beins just like you but there are some that are snakes in the grass you have to be very careful


GamblersGoWildCindy

Cindy, not sure if you were addressing the quoted poster (RedAndi) in your post or the Tradition/Bonne Chance rep. whom actually called the subject affiliates "liars" and thus needed to go. Perhaps you were not addressing anyone specifically but just making a statement in general.

 

[jas2587]

Cindy, not sure if you were addressing the quoted poster (RA) in your post or the Tradition/Bonne Chance rep. whom actually called the subject affiliates "liars" and thus needed to go. Perhaps you were not addressing anyone specifically but just making a statement in general.

just makeing a statement that I believe in wholeheartedly

we are all not crooks an liars

GamblersGoWildCindy

 

[RedAndi]

Sorry not all Affilates are liars we are human beins just like you but there are some that are snakes in the grass you have to be very careful


GamblersGoWildCindy

I don't think anyone reading this thread or the one at Guard Dog thinks that affiliates are liars. That was the quote of a person who appears to be looking to cover their own ass. I highlighted it because that line specifically was the one that stood out to me as very juvenile.
It wasn't even that he/she called people liars to me, it was just the tone a so-called professional was using in a public forum that shocked me.

 

[rubyroyal]

I wont lie, we did have one or two small payment issues due to the VISA/MC fallout however we worked hard with CM and the players effected to rectify these issues. There are no outstanding issues that we are aware of.

I would just like to add, Ruby Royal consulted with Technical Systems Testing (TST) to have our payouts audited. We are the first and only Rival casino to do so and it was done for ours and our players peace of mind. Kind of like having someone else look at your own watch and tell you the time.

The reason there was not an audit for the last few months is that it completely feel off the radar on my huge list of priorities. I have been in touch with TST today and have requested a full audit for the missing months. Once complete i will post a link to it on our website..

Please be advised that our latest TST report has been completed and the certificate is now available on the Ruby Royal site on the following page:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[maphesto]

93.75% payout on slots is infact a bit low i guess. When those max cashout bonuses are included it will drop a bit more.

 

[Dinahnana]

So Tradition is either:-

(a) a grossly incompetent person who is unable to run a business given her long list of clumsy mistakes and will probably fail in any venture of that sort let alone one that is related to gambling or

(b) a big fat liar who resorts to blaming new staff for what is essentially her own fault.

Personally, I vouch for (b) but we never know really.

Chuch, I am willing to bet its a little bit ot both. I am not sure if the folks over at Tradition ever read anything on how to be successful in business. A good leader/owner would not let themselves be baited and react to the way Tradition does. The defensive and sometimes downright offensive approach that Tradition takes makes me feel is that they have something to hide. You know the best defense is a good offense and as some politicians will tell you admit nothing, deny everything.

I have dealt with business people from all over the world some with very little english. Most of them even with the language barrier conduct themselves with a high level of professionalism and would never call people "liars" at least openly anyway

 

[AussieDave]

Please be advised that our latest TST report has been completed and the certificate is now available on the Ruby Royal site

That lastest audit includes 5 months of game play.

The previous included 3 months of game play.

Anything less than monthly game play audits means nothing. And while here I'll spell out why...

Over a 5 month period the games could very well be tweaked within periods that would yield sub standard deviation in accepted % returns.

Yet these sub standard variations in % game returns could easily be hidden over such a large window in game auditing.

IMHO anyone who thanks Ruby Royal for this audit really needs to look at why they think this is so great.


Cheers



Dave

 

[maphesto]

Anything less than monthly game play audits means nothing. And while here I'll spell out why...

Over a 5 month period the games could very well be tweaked within periods that would yield sub standard deviation in accepted % returns.

Yet these sub standard variations in % game returns could easily be hidden over such a large window in game auditing.

Of course you are right! The best thing to do is having a daily control of every game.

IMHO anyone who thanks Ruby Royal for this audit really needs to look at why they think this is so great.

I really hope you aren´t referring to the "thank you" button which is there to give us the possibility to thank for a useful post?

Because I think the post itself is VERY useful.

I commented it as well.

93.75% payout on slots BEFORE all those crappy "max cashout" bonuses does it´s job is interesting.

If they on most slots claim an estimated RTP of 95-96% there is something wrong.

 

[4 of a kind]

Please be advised that our latest TST report has been completed and the certificate is now available on the Ruby Royal site on the following page:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Wow, thanks RubRoyal for that impertinent information. An audit you get to choose who does it, and voluntarily paid for. I'm gonna empty my savings account and rush over to your site. Please, these audits mean about as much as what ever Tradition has to say. ZERO

I think most of us would rather read about the gaming regulations that allegedly should be enforced on your casino. Where could we read about them? Obviously when you said quote "The reason there was not an audit for the last few months is that it completely feel off the radar on my huge list of priorities" tells us there is no enforcement, since you can do it when you remember to, and you think it might improve business.

Me and many others know that your audit and all others supplied from online casinos should be flushed down the toilet, where it will end up with the rest of the decaying shit, and where our money ended up without a fair chance for trusting you in the first place.

By the way since this thread is about the crooks at Tradition, we're all very much still looking forward to your review results and your next line of bullshit.

 

[4 of a kind]

Tuesday will be three weeks and no response from Tradition. I could only guess their software hard-drives must be bigger then Goggles...

And of course with the crude responses here especially mine, they would have grounds to declare "Abuse" and refusal to respond here, besides why ruin the fade-away thread.

 

[tradition]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

 

[RobWin]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

You better put on your "Fire Suit" now...
____
____

 

[LaurieJim]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

"That We Had To Pay Him!!! WTF ", shouldnt it have been worded, We owed him as a player that we ripped off ? Whats up with putting the personal account numbers , tho they havent the names, except Sams, uncool imo

Laurie

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a quick update in order to let you know that player list has been provided to me. Players have been contacted and received amounts concerned :

Player account : 1801353, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2627524, Difference paid : 5

Player account : 2130056, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2313340, Difference paid : 1

Player account : 2121210, Difference paid : 3

Player account : 2647271, Difference paid : 11.5

Player account : 2675820, Difference paid : 2.5

Player account : 2148975, Difference paid : 0.5

Player account : 2786655, Difference paid : 100

This last account (2786655) is SamD' s account. He already received $150 instead of $100 that we had to pay him.

So, each and every one of these players were ONLY "ripped off" on ONE Blackjack during their play on this game OVER A MONTH!!

This game also seems VERY unpopular, else there would be a whole string of mispayments.

Maybe we need an INDEPENDENT audit of ALL play on this game. Firstly, to determine when Blackjacks started being underpayed, and secondly to determine the total number of underpayed Blackjacks till the problem was fixed.

I simply cannot believe that SO FEW players/hands were affected without supporting evidence from an independent audit.

 

[RedAndi]

List is probably just people who noticed and complained (and if ya didn't you are shit outta luck).....

 

[LaurieJim]

$124.30 ( if my math is right ) sure wasnt alot to payback, i just wonder how much revenue they(Tradition) lost, was it worth the $124.30 to cheat players ?

Laurie

 

[all4greed]

$124.30 ( if my math is right ) sure wasnt alot to payback, i just wonder how much revenue they(Tradition) lost, was it worth the $124.30 to cheat players ?

Laurie

And by looking at those individual numbers, doesn't appear there were a lot of blackjacks. Or am I missing something?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

And by looking at those individual numbers, doesn't appear there were a lot of blackjacks. Or am I missing something?

Yes, why would one who has even with a minuscle (sp) understanding of Blackjack trust Rival Gaming for Blackjack. I repeat, not that it is worth anything, the OP's post and subsequent posts is old news to a few. Carry On!

 

[KasinoKing]

And by looking at those individual numbers, doesn't appear there were a lot of blackjacks. Or am I missing something?

Don't you think it's quite likely that if you were playing blackjack and only got paid 1:1 for a BJ that you would notice pretty quickly and stop playing?
The figures posted look about right to me - in fact I was a bit surprised that Tradition had that many people playing blackjack in the first place!

KK

 

[bgermain1985]

These days, I just cant help thinking that they lost the plot somewhere along the way and blew the chance to be a serious competitor for MGS and RTG.

Amen to that :notworthy:

 

[Dinahnana]

That lastest audit includes 5 months of game play.

The previous included 3 months of game play.

Anything less than monthly game play audits means nothing. And while here I'll spell out why...

Over a 5 month period the games could very well be tweaked within periods that would yield sub standard deviation in accepted % returns.

Yet these sub standard variations in % game returns could easily be hidden over such a large window in game auditing.

IMHO anyone who thanks Ruby Royal for this audit really needs to look at why they think this is so great.


Cheers



Dave

Well know I know why I can't ever get any decent game play from Ruby Royal.

As Maphesto pointed out most of the slots have an average payout between 96 and 98% with only a couple under that so having less than 96% for a 10 month period (according to Ruby royal's own report) is a little fishy to me. I am not an expert but that does not add up to a fair game in my opinion.

 

[all4greed]

Don't you think it's quite likely that if you were playing blackjack and only got paid 1:1 for a BJ that you would notice pretty quickly and stop playing?

Not necessarily. If I play BJ, it's multihand and I don't check to see what it pays, just move on to the next hand. But I'm assuming it paid correctly. And I tend to play fast. So seeing what was posted, I don't buy into the assumption that people saw it was paying incorrectly and moved on. I am leaning more towards those numbers were made up to make it look lower.

Call me skeptical...

 

[tradition]

I still apologize for what happened but I won't provide players names, sorry : it's private.

But, as requested, here you are detailled hands :

"User", "Trans ID", "Winnings", "Paid", "Difference"

"Hand Description",

1801353,1682815670, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Ah,Jc:2s,4c|1|0|1",

2121210,1730477418, 4.5, 1.5, 3
"3|As,Qs:Ac,3d|1|1.5|1",

2130056,1726990262, 7.5, 5, 2.5
"5|Jc,Ac:Tc,Qd|1|0|1",

2148975,1835561797, 0.5, 0, 0.5
"1,1|6d,Th;Ah,Ts:2s,7h,Th|1,1|0,0|2",

2313340,1729260321, 3, 2, 1
"2|Jh,Ad:3h,Ts|1|0|1",

2627524,1700687893, 15, 10, 5
"10|Td,Ah:9d,Th|1|0|1",

2647271,1791686952, 4, 3, 1
"1,1,1|7h,8d;Jc,Ah;Ad,Th:Th,6d,7h|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1795900273, 1, 0, 1
"2,2,2|Jc,Ah;Ac,7h;Kc,Tc:Jc,Qs|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1799609890, 2.5, 2, 0.5
"1,1|Ad,Js;Td,4d:2c,9d,2d,9c|1,1|0,0|2",

2647271,1804615253, 3.5, 3, 0.5
"1,1,1|Ah,Qs;6c,7c;8s,Js:9c,4c,Kh|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1804770312, 10, 7.5, 2.5
"10,5,5|Js,Kd;As,Tc;Jh,3h:5h,As,Qh,5d|1,1,1|0,0,0|3"

2647271,1804772135, 7.5, 5, 2.5
"5,5,5|Qd,7h;Ah,Qh;7d,Tc:8s,2h,7h|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2647271,1807265300, 7, 3.5, 3.5
"7,7,7|5h,Qh;Tc,4c;Qc,Ac:Ts,9d|1,1,1|0,0,0|3",

2675820,1808126199, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Js,Ac:7h,Jh|1|0|1",

2675820,1809551117, 3, 2, 1
"2|Td,Ad:2c,4s|1|0|1",

2675820,1838092434, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Tc,As:4h,Td|1|0|1",

2675820,1838092972, 1.5, 1, 0.5
"1|Ad,Qd:3h,Kc|1|0|1",

2786655,1839688519, 250, 200, 50
"100,100|Js,Kc;Ah,Ks:5s,Jd,9h|1,1|0,0|2",

2786655,1841311611, 150, 100, 50
"100|As,Ts:Ks,Th|1|0|1",

If SamD seems to have very high amount compared to other players it's only because he played huge hands on this game : he wagered minimum $100 per hand and maximum $400.

So, all other players played with lower amounts and wagered minimum $2 per hand and maximum $15, so their amounts won have nothing to do with SamD winnings.

As you can imagine, in a new casino as Tradition, proportion of chance to have such highroller as SamD is very low, most of our players only play to slots and table games players are very rare. Then, i think we don't have a lot of players whom are playing at table games because most of our bonuses are not valid for table games.

FYI, in March, we have had 1,954 hands played on normal Blackjack and 965 hands played on Multi hands. But in March, we have had 8,925,827 total hands played in our casino (all games included).

So, you can imagine that Tradition didn't have any interest to voluntarily change payouts on Blackjack considering that this game is rarely played, that we use to not give bonuses on it and that we never have had big winners on it. SamD played on slots and blackjack both and even if he played huge hands on blackjack, he earned aproximatively 2.5 times his deposits, so he's not a big winner at all... His winnings came from slots, not from Blackjack.

Last, the only one player whom noticed us about the payout blackjack problem is SamD and we made the change immediately, as SamD can confirm. If an other player than SamD had wrote us regarding the same problem, our reaction would have been the same and we would have make the change immediately : we don't have any interest to have a payout different from our felt and we don't have interest to have low payouts on this game especially, it's stupid.

I don't remember whom said here that Tradition lost more than it earned regarding this payout problem... I would like just confirm that "yes". It's fully true. Tradition is probably the first online casino to be classed rogue about $125...

Gambling licence don't depends on me directly but depends on Rival and i'm paying Rival for having a fair software. If i wanted organise independants audits from software, differents from those provided by Rival itself, i wouldn't have made the choice to choose a white label : i would have taken an independant casino with my own licence, as Slotocash's option, by example.

In conclusion, regarding this whole situation : i cannot do more than i already done. All players have been contacted and recovered incorrect amounts paid, i apologized, payouts have been changed, my casino has been classed rogue on Casinomeister because of these incorrect $125 winnings paid and i provided you full list of players concerned + hands played. And i put my "fire suit"...

 

[Pinababy69]

FYI, in March, we have had 1,954 hands played on normal Blackjack and 965 hands played on Multi hands.

So 2,919 hands altogether....and out of almost 3,000 hands, there were less than twenty blackjacks? Wow...yeah, that seems accurate.

And KK, for you to say that such a small number of BJ's seems accurate and/or right, pretty much blows my mind.

Last, the only one player whom noticed us about the payout blackjack problem is SamD and we made the change immediately, as SamD can confirm. If an other player than SamD had wrote us regarding the same problem, our reaction would have been the same and we would have make the change immediately :

The lies flow so freely, don't they? It wasn't one player, and SamD wasn't the first. And you didn't fix it "immediately", even in his case. Refre/Freddy experienced the "rigged" version, a FULL MONTH prior to SamD....and has the emails/live chats to confirm this. NOTHING was done about it. Lies, lies, lies. And people wonder why I hate Rival with a passion?

I had the exact same problem at Tradition casino the 22. of last month.
Of course I realize now I should have posted here back then.
They claimed "we have made some updates to ensure that this does not occur again". Obviously they didn't.

Freddy

Hiya Pina. I'm afraid the screenshot is lost.
But I do have e-mails / live chats confirming the malfunction.
I'll see if I can find a screenshot of the hand history.

They did send me a few small bonuses to make up for their mistake.
I didn't make a big deal about it since I was playing with a ND bonus in the first palce.

Update:

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Freddy

 

[tradition]

Pinababy, I don't know who is freddy and i even don't know if this player is included in the list provided by rival.

I can only confirm that about 2010-02-22 an update has been made by Rival on normal blackjack and an other update has been made by Rival too about 2010-03-27 on Blackjack Multi-Hand.

So we simply need to know who is Freddy, at what game he played exactly and if he receieved an email from us last 4 days...

If this player is not listed or if he has not been contacted with exact detail of transactions + apologizes, i'd be VERY surprise....

Regarding the fact that you hate Rival, i'm affraid that i cannot help you. Hatred is a very deep feeling.

 

[Nifty29]

So 2,919 hands altogether....and out of almost 3,000 hands, there were less than twenty blackjacks? Wow...yeah, that seems accurate.

And KK, for you to say that such a small number of BJ's seems accurate and/or right, pretty much blows my mind.

Well thats about a 0.006% BJ rate. Pina, you are right - it doesnt sound right to me either.

I dont know the exact chances of hitting a BJ but I know it is more than that - maybe a resident BJ expert could chime in here?

Ive said this before, but I really really wish Tradition would have someone proof read their posts before they are posted. I know French is her first language, and by her own admission her English isnt great, but it is so important to be clear and concise when communicating as a Casino Rep in public. I have seen so many posts where Tradition has been jumped on through no fault of her own, other than poor choice of word/phrase which has conveyed the wrong meaning. In fact, Ive seen some nasty exchanges which started with such an occurrence.

Tradition is to be commended for being here personally as the casino owner, which isnt the norm, and for attempting to answer as many questions as possible......credit where it is due. Personally, I feel it would be so much better if she owned the licence, as many issues cannot be resolved by her as she only has limited control.

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

 

[tradition]

Nifty, hands list i provided you include normal and multi hand blackjack both.

I don't know exact chance to hit blackjack but 2,919 hands played in march concerned normal blackjack and payouts issue was resolved since 2010-02-22. So in march, all hands played at normal blackjacks are ok. Regarding hands played at multi hand blackjack : there were 965 hands played in march, so there is still less hands than normal blackjack.

I didn't found that accounts number were personal due to the fact that there is not possibilitie to retrieve players only with these numbers, excepted for me and my employees, of course. Regarding winnings informations given on SamD, i wanted only bring light about questions on his amounts were very superiors to amounts won by other players.

Last, regarding my english, i'm a bit surprise because sometimes players blamed me because they thought that my english was good enough for reading & understanding all entire posts and now, you are implying that my english is not good. For sure, i can understand that a fluent english will be nicer here and would help your readability, but i made this choice to manage personally problems with players. Even with such decision, i'm not fully aware about all in my own casino, as you could noticed it.... Having intermediar could create more misunderstandings, i'm affraid... Please be sure that i try to do my best about this point.

About gambling licence, for sure, if i were the owner of my licence, things will be differents and i would have probably organized some aditionals audits : unfortunately, it's not the case, licence & reports are provided by Rival and i'm not ready at all for pay twice the same service....

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Well thats about a 0.006% BJ rate. Pina, you are right - it doesnt sound right to me either.

I dont know the exact chances of hitting a BJ but I know it is more than that - maybe a resident BJ expert could chime in here?

Ive said this before, but I really really wish Tradition would have someone proof read their posts before they are posted. I know French is her first language, and by her own admission her English isnt great, but it is so important to be clear and concise when communicating as a Casino Rep in public. I have seen so many posts where Tradition has been jumped on through no fault of her own, other than poor choice of word/phrase which has conveyed the wrong meaning. In fact, Ive seen some nasty exchanges which started with such an occurrence.

Tradition is to be commended for being here personally as the casino owner, which isnt the norm, and for attempting to answer as many questions as possible......credit where it is due. Personally, I feel it would be so much better if she owned the licence, as many issues cannot be resolved by her as she only has limited control.

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

Considering a 3 to 2, 6 to 5, 1 to 1, 0 to -1 ,lol, Blackjack will occur every 1 out of ~ 21 hands or 4.76%, I need to the read recent thread posts to catch up on this obvious inaccurate discrepancy which would be so blatantly obvious to the player, this discrepancy (too many standard deviations) would have made the EH and AP scandals/whatever, qualify for Triple AAA Accreditation. (sarcastic exageration bolded).

And oh the irony of mathematical BJ determinations that can be determined. Nevermind, a higher level of cheating where all mathematical determinations are simply labeled a glitch, malfunction, and/or with an officially accepted KK endorsed apology by a casino rep. (sorry KK but I do not get this apology thing or actually I do), seems to excuse the inexcusable aka double standards.

All the to be ignored above said (you are correct frienemy,),
I culled some BJ stats from my audited play which "as is" certainly indicate the game "at the time" was distributing BJ's as expected.

TOTAL HANDS 50001 TO 97140=47140 TOTAL HANDS

TOTAL DEALER BLACKJACKS=2215
TOTAL DEALER BLACKJACKS EXPECTATION=2244.76

TOTAL PLAYER BLACKJACKS=2226
TOTAL PLAYER BLACKJACKS EXPECTATION=2244.76


Notes: 1. I personally audited so numbers may be off a number or two but not significant, 2. there were some discrepancies between some culled "real time" hands and "non real time" hand histories (3 years and Rival still advertises all hands realtime access but as is provided by Rival simply is incorrect and false so I do not care whether "Pilot" or "Passenger" error., all is simply inexcusable by Rival and if a 'ponderance of evidence applied to this Rival outfit, Rival would have been finished long ago.), 3. DID RIVAL MAKE A CODE CHANGE AT SOME POINT???????????????, regardless, there is no reason to believe this has anything to do with the past or current number of BJ's though as one should be trying to find that needle in a haystack, not a basketball going through the goal!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

Disregard, my bad!

 

[jod5413]

Ive said this before, but I really really wish Tradition would have someone proof read their posts before they are posted. I know French is her first language, and by her own admission her English isnt great, but it is so important to be clear and concise when communicating as a Casino Rep in public. I have seen so many posts where Tradition has been jumped on through no fault of her own, other than poor choice of word/phrase which has conveyed the wrong meaning. In fact, Ive seen some nasty exchanges which started with such an occurrence.

Tradition is to be commended for being here personally as the casino owner, which isnt the norm, and for attempting to answer as many questions as possible......credit where it is due. Personally, I feel it would be so much better if she owned the licence, as many issues cannot be resolved by her as she only has limited control.

I also wouldnt have posted account numbers, nor any specific information about SamD, regardless of his persona non gratis status here these days.

I have to agree strongly with you, Nifty, on the language issue. I DO believe this woman is trying her best, I DO believe she has gotten in over her head, I DO believe she is getting more than enough flak for her shortcomings. I DO remember other software "problems" with both RTG and MG, and they are still around.

I do not hate Rival, I still believe it is a close third behind MG and RTG. I hope that Tradition can better their reputation as time goes by. If not, so be it.

I can't believe I am saying this. Nash, even though you speak in foreign tongues, I do believe you have had many valid points in all your experiences playing on line, and have done your best to show us.

 

[refre]

Hi there, Casino tradition contacted me yesterday:

Hi,

Unfortunately, one of your blackjack hands has not been paid to you properly.

Transaction ID : 1726990262
Detailled transaction : 5|Jc,Ac:Tc,Qd|1|0|1

This transaction has been paid 5 instead of 07/05/10, so we owe you 02/05/10. Regularization has been made and your winnings are waiting for you in your account.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

Warmest regards,

Manager,

€17 was put in my account.

These are the details of the hand (as posted previously)

Attach Removed (Old not found)

Freddy