Tokens/Tickets... Fortune Lounge

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
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PABinit
I been playing for years at casinos and this is a first for me.

So I put in over 1K into [strike]sun vegas[/strike] Vegas Palms over the last few months or so. Not withdrawn any. No probs. My luck and my loss.

Today I logged in and had 5 cents in bonus so I played it out to zero before depositing. I put in $170. Transaction went thru ok and when I checked my balance it said $116.20 and $53.20 in bonus.

Um wtf? Long story short... I've been penalised of sorts for playing Tomb Raider Secret of the Sword and having accumulated tokens etc. I didn't understand what the chat rep was telling me. Didn't really get what the casino manager was telling me either except that over some time I've collected play tokens that effects my deposits.

Maybe because I've not won a bonus nor free spins on this game at this casino? But really... this is a hidden feature of bonus's that I've not come across before?

Would appreciate anyone's input here... ta.
 
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maphesto

Dormant account
Tomb Raider Secret of the Sword accumulates passports on every reel, when you have collected all five a bonus game starts. You can hit four passports with bonus money and return with real money and collect the whole win.

It's the same with Scrooge and Wealth Spa.

Some casinos don't even allow games like this when playing with bonus funds.
 
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dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Right, if I understand correctly this alludes to 'bonus round saving'. This is when players uses bonus funds to achieve the 3-scatter triggers, then quit the game and move to another and do the same again. They 'prime' as many slots as possible with bonus money, play the bonus money to zero then deposit real cash with no WR and proceed to go back and play all the bonus rounds they've saved, and get easy cash wins. In the case of TR2 you can play with bonus money to get 4 out of 5 passports then go back with real cash and soon hit the bonus and win. It sounds like they've spotted something along those lines.
 

maphesto

Dormant account
A few years back the casinos didn't know about this and evil players could take an advantage over the casino. These slots are using average bet which means that you could bet high with the bonus money to collect four passports and then deposit minimum and lowroll to hit the fifth one.

This was possible both with ND bonuses (often with max cashout)and those high percentage welcome offers. I remember that Canbet had a welcome offer to their MG casino of 400%. :)
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
That was NOT my intention to just come back and play games to try to gain an advantage! I hadn't even remember that I play secret of the sword!

Am not an evil player lolol I promise... I didn't know about this rule till today. And am happy to play out the bonus as required. I was just asking as I hadn't come across it before.
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Check your gameplay, MG have problem with their clear play system. You might not even have played the game. Support might have told you what they thought was the explanation to uour problem.
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
Check your gameplay, MG have problem with their clear play system. You might not even have played the game. Support might have told you what they thought was the explanation to uour problem.
Wow how professional!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
The problem with this is that it isn't possible to take the bonus with less than 5 passports, unlike when a slot is left at the start of free spins or a bonus round. The system was changed to account for the latter, but the situation with Tomb Raider and Scrooge is trickier.

This may not even be the correct explanation, just that the CS agent went looking for possible causes and discovered a couple of passports on TR II.

If they ARE taking such things into account, the players should be told, not have to find out that this is some dark secret. Unlike the trick of priming slots, this will affect regular players who will have no idea what is going on. It also seems that the casinos don't really know what is going on, and the generic explanation is "you have an unfinished game in the system", but they can't say which one. There are also cases where this happens, but NO unfinished games can be found on the players' account. This was later confirmed to be a bug with the MGS systems, and was down to ANOTHER player leaving an unfinished multi player game on THEIR account.

If it turns out that the other cases are actually down to tokens being detected, rather than actual unfinished games, the casinos and MGS need to come clean.

RTG has a system whereby you can trigger a percentage chance of getting a part collected bonus or "feature guarantee" if you run out of money before you trigger it naturally.

MGS screwed up in the first place by introducing slots with a memory of past play (token collecting, etc). Unlike the slot priming trick, MGS should have KNOWN the obvious implications of designing "slot priming" into some of their games.

Casinos ban such games because the software can't handle the problem, usually on the multi provider platforms. Many simply block bets containing bonus funds from even being made on slots like Scrooge, as not doing so would make any trickery very hard to detect without running deep audits on EVERY player. For example, a player could prime Scrooge, and then leave it sitting around for months before collecting the 25th, and the trick would not appear in an audit of the session creating the withdrawal, nor any sessions in the past few months. It would take a deep audit to determine when the other dates were collected, and whether it was done with real money or a bonus. Far easier to just configure the software to block these games with a bonus funded bet.

Sun Vegas is not Fortune Lounge, but Vegas Partner Lounge.
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
The problem with this is that it isn't possible to take the bonus with less than 5 passports, unlike when a slot is left at the start of free spins or a bonus round. The system was changed to account for the latter, but the situation with Tomb Raider and Scrooge is trickier.

This may not even be the correct explanation, just that the CS agent went looking for possible causes and discovered a couple of passports on TR II.

If they ARE taking such things into account, the players should be told, not have to find out that this is some dark secret. Unlike the trick of priming slots, this will affect regular players who will have no idea what is going on. It also seems that the casinos don't really know what is going on, and the generic explanation is "you have an unfinished game in the system", but they can't say which one. There are also cases where this happens, but NO unfinished games can be found on the players' account. This was later confirmed to be a bug with the MGS systems, and was down to ANOTHER player leaving an unfinished multi player game on THEIR account.

If it turns out that the other cases are actually down to tokens being detected, rather than actual unfinished games, the casinos and MGS need to come clean.

RTG has a system whereby you can trigger a percentage chance of getting a part collected bonus or "feature guarantee" if you run out of money before you trigger it naturally.

MGS screwed up in the first place by introducing slots with a memory of past play (token collecting, etc). Unlike the slot priming trick, MGS should have KNOWN the obvious implications of designing "slot priming" into some of their games.

Casinos ban such games because the software can't handle the problem, usually on the multi provider platforms. Many simply block bets containing bonus funds from even being made on slots like Scrooge, as not doing so would make any trickery very hard to detect without running deep audits on EVERY player. For example, a player could prime Scrooge, and then leave it sitting around for months before collecting the 25th, and the trick would not appear in an audit of the session creating the withdrawal, nor any sessions in the past few months. It would take a deep audit to determine when the other dates were collected, and whether it was done with real money or a bonus. Far easier to just configure the software to block these games with a bonus funded bet.

Sun Vegas is not Fortune Lounge, but Vegas Partner Lounge.
Thanks for that vinyl... btw... I asked Grace the casino manager if this was a platinum casino... yes Grace said... Fortune I said... and she replied yes. She didn't correct me and say it was a Vegas Partner Lounge casino. But silly me didn't save the damned chat!!! So it's my word...

It may be a good idea to ditch this chat as I don't want to sully fortune lounge!

I made a mistake... Yeh well it's been a long day ok!! It was vegas palms... not sun vegas... they all sound the same to me!

And before anyone has a go at me... I'm trying to figure out what to do with my sister who is being a cow to my mum... and causing havoc. So my mind isn't quite on the job!!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
I made a mistake... Yeh well it's been a long day ok!! It was vegas palms... not sun vegas... they all sound the same to me!

And before anyone has a go at me... I'm trying to figure out what to do with my sister who is being a cow to my mum... and causing havoc. So my mind isn't quite on the job!!
Send a PM to the Fortune Lounge rep asking whether MGS have now fixed the bonus tracking system to detect saved tokens in slots like Scrooge. If they have, players should be told as this could affect almost everyone, not just the advantage players. It would mean casinos no longer had to ban these games from being played, nor would they have to audit so many player accounts, but recreational players might prefer to either avoid these games completely in case they mess up the next bonus offer, or lower their stake in order to trigger a bonus that is playing hard to get, and which would cause problems for their next deposit if they failed to trigger it before busting out.

What you are really seeing when part of a deposit turns to bonus money is the system carrying over the WR from the previous bonus. It just manifests as an odd looking amount turning to bonus, rather than a neat multiple of 10 credits as one might expect.
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
Ta Vinyl... but where to find the rep?

And anyway I still don't understand what I've done wrong!!! I deposit I play I hope!! Simple!!!

Found him!

Hey I don't mind losing... but I want to lose fairly!!!
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Am not an evil player lolol I promise... I didn't know about this rule till today. And am happy to play out the bonus as required. I was just asking as I hadn't come across it before.
I as well as other members (I'm sure) don't believe you are an "evil player" I think Maphesto was just giving you an example. I suggest that you PM the Rep for this casino. They might have possibly made a mistake. Good luck and I hope your next spin is a winner :)
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
Cheers!

Well hopefully the rep will pop in to explain this snag... it's first for me and it should be known as vinyl said

Well I tried sending a pm... twice... here's hoping a get a response

Not as yet...

Hi again all...

Can I ask? Is there a WR on redeemed loyalty points? Am asking because that is the only bonus I received in the last few months of play at Vegas Palms. A measly $5 and with that I played a regular reel slot (Cracker Jack) down to 5 credits left... no tokens or tickets I think on that game.

I thought it odd that I had bonus funds in there because I always ask for any auto bonuses to be removed and I never ask to be given one either... but I'd forgotten I'd redeemed my points. This being back in November and I hadn't played since.

So all over the $5 loyalty redemption I was penalised? I get what others have said... that one can play such games that collect tokens with bonus funds then go back later with their own money but I didn't do this. I didn't play any games like this... scrooge, wealth spa, ts2 etc.

And importantly, I didn't play Tomb Raider Secret of the Sword at all!! It's not a game that I play because it always seems so hard to get to collect all the passports. But I trusted the casino manager who told me that I had and wanting to do the right thing and play out any WR I played it the other night. It was stupid of me as I should have done what others have said and checked the game play first. But I had had long sessions during my play back in November with many pages to go through... and it wasn't exactly a quiet atmosphere in this house the other night to concentrate.
My fault I know to have played the game... I ended up losing... but am annoyed that I felt forced to play the damned game in order to clear this token business so it wouldn't happen again next time I deposit.

For some reason my pm to the rep didn't get sent so have sent another.
 

mattsgame

Meister Member
webmeister
CAG
Tomb Raider Secret of the Sword accumulates passports on every reel, when you have collected all five a bonus game starts. You can hit four passports with bonus money and return with real money and collect the whole win.

It's the same with Scrooge and Wealth Spa.

Some casinos don't even allow games like this when playing with bonus funds.
Interesting, never had a problem with any of the games you mention. The only ones that have held up bonus cash are AWP's or the Multiplayer slots (even if you have no multiplier they expect you to sit there till a bonus round comes up to clear the game in play :/) Even when this has happened CS has always fixed my balance for me as half the games I haven't even played for 2 years.
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
Yep same mattsgame... never had this issue before as said. And I didn't play any awp or multiplayer games either. I just don't like them.

I finally managed to send a pm to fortune so hopefully this will be sorted soon.
 

Balthazar

The Governor
Well I tried sending a pm... twice... here's hoping a get a response
While you are waiting dandan, you could confirm your email address with CM so you can become a real forum member instead of a "registered user" with a teal name .:thumbsup:
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
lol I thought I had confirmed my email.

I been looking how to do that but where?

I went to settings and my correct email is there. I thought you had to confirm email when you signed up so I don't understand why you are telling me otherwise.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Interesting, never had a problem with any of the games you mention. The only ones that have held up bonus cash are AWP's or the Multiplayer slots (even if you have no multiplier they expect you to sit there till a bonus round comes up to clear the game in play :/) Even when this has happened CS has always fixed my balance for me as half the games I haven't even played for 2 years.
That will happen if your last credit gave you the feature where you have a repeat chance. Even if it lands on "no", it doesn't clear the bonus tracking until you have taken an "empty" spin. It also happens if your last spin is followed by a win guarantee for the next spin (one of the reels will nod to indicate this).

The Lucky Darts AWP in Flash is the worst from the point of view of the casino as you can transfer your balance to the cash bank to play the "club" game, and appear to have a zero balance in the casino. It is usually a prohibited game though.

The multi player games are the worst for the player, as there is nothing to clear when looking in the game, so there is absolutely no advantage, so no need for the system to police them so harshly. Scrooge is the most predictable of the token saving games, and it is often prohibited for bonus play whereas the others with token saving are not.

Despite the problems caused by these games, MGS released another one recently, the Dark Knight Rises, and sure enough, problems followed. It can often go hundreds of spins without triggering free spins, so it's very hard to reset if you have ever played it with a bonus, even by dropping right down to the minimum stake.
 

dandan

Seven day suspension for being a PITA
webby
PABinit
That will happen if your last credit gave you the feature where you have a repeat chance. Even if it lands on "no", it doesn't clear the bonus tracking until you have taken an "empty" spin. It also happens if your last spin is followed by a win guarantee for the next spin (one of the reels will nod to indicate this).

The Lucky Darts AWP in Flash is the worst from the point of view of the casino as you can transfer your balance to the cash bank to play the "club" game, and appear to have a zero balance in the casino. It is usually a prohibited game though.

The multi player games are the worst for the player, as there is nothing to clear when looking in the game, so there is absolutely no advantage, so no need for the system to police them so harshly. Scrooge is the most predictable of the token saving games, and it is often prohibited for bonus play whereas the others with token saving are not.

Despite the problems caused by these games, MGS released another one recently, the Dark Knight Rises, and sure enough, problems followed. It can often go hundreds of spins without triggering free spins, so it's very hard to reset if you have ever played it with a bonus, even by dropping right down to the minimum stake.
Thanks for your response vinyl... but as mentioned I didn't have a bonus... just redeemed loyalty points for 5 credits... which I played on Cracker Jack... then the last 5 on Alley Cats.

I did play The Dark Knight Rises back in Novermebr but since I never played it with bonus funds this is where I am confused.

And why is the fortune rep taking so long to reply to my pm... or on here for that matter? It's been 2 days since I posted about this issue.
 
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