On Probation The Virtual Casino Group and Ace Revenue

[Nifty29]

It has been demonstrated earlier in this thread, all you have to do is look outside of CM and you will still find many unresolved complaints.

IMPO, if Bryan wants them out of the pit he should remove them from the pit. If he is going to leave it up to the members for a vote he might as well close this thread now, I can't see that vote going positive for Virtual.

The members here are concerned about preserving the integrity of this site.

I think you're right bigjohn.

I just cannot see any vote supporting de-pitifying in a month of Sundays.

What I'm confused about is why they would go to the trouble of trying to go from one CM category where any sane person would avoid the casinos listed, to another CM category where any sane person would avoid the casinos listed. Seems a pointless exercise. Everyone would (or should) still be avoiding them regardless of which category they're in.

IMO, any casino that has different cashout times for those playing with bonuses should absolutely be classified as rogue, as should any casino that hold onto your money for 10+ business days under ANY circumstances.

I have an enormous amount of respect for Greedygirl, but IMO she is flogging a dead horse here.

Also, another thing that bothers me.....if these groups are RTG's biggest earners and have a "highly successful business model", then WHY would they give a toss if they were in some website's rogue pit? I don't buy the "we don't want to be pariahs any more" nonsense...there must be a financial reason behind all of this. I would also say that, if what we see now is the result of TWO YEARS work behind the scenes between Debbee and the operators, then it is very clear that they are not serious at all. The changes announced here (which seemed to actually be in response to the feedback here rather than any previous legwork etc...which is even more worrying) could have been implemented years ago. It doesn't take more than a few days to decide to reduce some payout times from total crap to almost total crap.

I do agree with Debbee on one thing....it would be awesome if these groups decided to fall into line and behave like casinos like 32Red, 3Dice and other accredited casinos. It would be great if the SPAM (which has also increased for me lately....coincidence?) stopped, and the phone calls stopped, and the delays and excuses stopped.....I just cannot see it happening.

Unless Virtual et al decide to pay EVERYONE in 48 hours - no excuses, delays or BS terms - I can't see anyone of sound mind even considering giving them a chance.

 

[Nifty29]

I honestly can not understand this line of thought.
The slow-pay is a deliberate policy to give players as much time as possible to get fed-up waiting, reverse and play.
I'm sure these groups have huge stacks of cash - they just want to hold on to as much as possible for as long as possible.

KK

(Slight derail but important)

It seems your main/big gripe with these groups.....and one of the reasons you agree they should be rogue...is the issue highlighted above.

You state that you cannot understand their line of thought. In fact, you really do...the bolded statement says as much.

However, you're happy to promote other groups that have 10-14 business day payouts/$500 per fortnight to your visitors. Your defence is that "it's in the terms. If you don't like it then don't play".

What, then, is the difference between the Winpalace group and the groups mentioned here....and why don't you promote Virtual et al? After all, if Virtual paid out a $5000 in around 60 days, it would still be FASTER than Winpalace! Just think about that for a moment.

 

[dunover]

I think you're right bigjohn.

I just cannot see any vote supporting de-pitifying in a month of Sundays.

What I'm confused about is why they would go to the trouble of trying to go from one CM category where any sane person would avoid the casinos listed, to another CM category where any sane person would avoid the casinos listed. Seems a pointless exercise. Everyone would (or should) still be avoiding them regardless of which category they're in.

IMO, any casino that has different cashout times for those playing with bonuses should absolutely be classified as rogue, as should any casino that hold onto your money for 10+ business days under ANY circumstances.

I have an enormous amount of respect for Greedygirl, but IMO she is flogging a dead horse here.

Also, another thing that bothers me.....if these groups are RTG's biggest earners and have a "highly successful business model", then WHY would they give a toss if they were in some website's rogue pit? I don't buy the "we don't want to be pariahs any more" nonsense...there must be a financial reason behind all of this. I would also say that, if what we see now is the result of TWO YEARS work behind the scenes between Debbee and the operators, then it is very clear that they are not serious at all. The changes announced here (which seemed to actually be in response to the feedback here rather than any previous legwork etc...which is even more worrying) could have been implemented years ago. It doesn't take more than a few days to decide to reduce some payout times from total crap to almost total crap.

I do agree with Debbee on one thing....it would be awesome if these groups decided to fall into line and behave like casinos like 32Red, 3Dice and other accredited casinos. It would be great if the SPAM (which has also increased for me lately....coincidence?) stopped, and the phone calls stopped, and the delays and excuses stopped.....I just cannot see it happening.

Unless Virtual et al decide to pay EVERYONE in 48 hours - no excuses, delays or BS terms - I can't see anyone of sound mind even considering giving them a chance.

I still maintain that this is the fundamental reason. With the market saturated with casinos, many new and very reliable like most Netents word can and will get around to point players in the right direction. The 'golden days' for rogues of player ignorance and absence of information to help players avoid certain sites has gone. There will still be a small pool for bad sites to fish in, there always will be. This group wants to fish in the new bigger 'clean' pool for revenue. Their European revenue must have been reduced with increasing LGA player protection and a plethora of good fast-paying sites in that region.
So yes, the path to redemption has to be financial - 'follow the money' as they say....

 

[KasinoKing]

It seems your main/big gripe with these groups.....and one of the reasons you agree they should be rogue...is the issue highlighted above.

Please don't try to put words into my month - I never said any such thing.
Thank you.

KK

 

[rockycatt]

again with this group with this track record ,in light of all that is transpiring on the gaming front my guess is there staging their properties like we do to ready a sale like a house [you got yo clean it up if you want to sell it ]

 

[The Dude]

I have sent gwages pm:s and he's not responding. I know he hasn't been online for five days but he received my messages before that. I think that a casino group on probation should have an active rep, in the beginning it was talk about 30 days probation...then five days or no responding is quite bad. Maybe he has a good excuse and in that case I apologize.

The GWages rep is out of the country dealing with a family emergency. There should be someone manning his account, that ought to be happening but I don't know.

Also I need to make clear (as I have a number of times already), the Virtual group did not request to be removed from the pit and put on probation. It was my move via objective observations and communications.

 

[Nifty29]

Please don't try to put words into my month - I never said any such thing.
Thank you.

KK

So...

The slow-pay is a deliberate policy to give players as much time as possible to get fed-up waiting, reverse and play.

....is absolutely fine? So why even mention it?

Sorry, but I don't need to put any words in your mouth.

You didn't answer my questions either....they were legitimate. I will make it simpler for you....

Do you think it's absolutely fine to slow-pay I.e. to deliberately hold off to entice winners into becoming losers? Your words are saying "No", but your actions are saying "Yes".

It's not a total derail either. It's a fact that many affiliates think it's just fine, as it means more income for them. It also means operators that do it will KEEP doing it. As I stated, it appears that virtual actually pay faster than the winpalace group for example....yet winpalace gets a guernsey and virtual doesn't.

Affiliates that promote these appalling slow payers are obviously more interested in commission than their players.

Anyway, I've made my point. People will make up their own mind. I just feel it's a bit cheeky for you to point put how awful their payment terms are when you recommend even worse to your own players.

 

[maphesto]

The GWages rep is out of the country dealing with a family emergency. There should be someone manning his account, that ought to be happening but I don't know.

Well, someone has read my PM... An issue several years old seems to be taken care of. I received money to my neteller account fom one of gambling wages casinos. This was one that Marty Davis couldn't help me with.

 

[KasinoKing]

Do you think it's absolutely fine to slow-pay I.e. to deliberately hold off to entice winners into becoming losers? Your words are saying "No", but your actions are saying "Yes".

Why do you keep banging on about this - it's getting really tedious now.

For the last time...
NO I do not like ANY casino's who have a slow-pay policy - I think it's bad for players, bad for the casino and bad for the affiliates. (Because I believe players who are unhappy about cash-out speeds are FAR less likely to sign-up in the first place and FAR less likely to return to play again if they do sign-up = less income for the casino = less earnings for the affiliates).
HOWEVER, some players are happy to accept their terms (including myself - as a player) and play at some of these casinos, probably because they have big bonus offers.
ALL gamblers have to take responsibility for their own actions; if they read the T&Cs and see something they don't like - they can walk away. No-one is FORCING them to accept terms they don't like!

I hope you understand my point of view now.

KK

 

[Nifty29]

Why do you keep banging on about this - it's getting really tedious now.

For the last time...
NO I do not like ANY casino's who have a slow-pay policy - I think it's bad for players, bad for the casino and bad for the affiliates. (Because I believe players who are unhappy about cash-out speeds are FAR less likely to sign-up in the first place and FAR less likely to return to play again if they do sign-up = less income for the casino = less earnings for the affiliates).
HOWEVER, some players are happy to accept their terms (including myself - as a player) and play at some of these casinos, probably because they have big bonus offers.
ALL gamblers have to take responsibility for their own actions; if they read the T&Cs and see something they don't like - they can walk away. No-one is FORCING them to accept terms they don't like!

I hope you understand my point of view now.

KK

Yes I do.

You defend and promote a group of appalling slow payers, and consider another group of appalling slow payers to be rogue due to their appalling slow paying. It's called double standards.

IMO, you have no place pointing the finger at virtual for their unethical payment practices when you profit from the unethical payment practices of another group. It's laughable that you wax lyrical about how awful virtual treats their players when you're happy to send your players to operators that are just as bad.

Affiliates ALSO have a responsibility...especially to newbs and the less aware. You don't like slow pay etc because you think it's a deliberate ploy to force players to reverse and lose....but the fact that your visitors trust you, see these casinos listed, and sign up doesn't bother you.

It's affiliates that allow this crap treatment to continue....you included. Better treatment of players is obviously not important to you.

I like you as a person. As an affiliate....well that's a different story.

It's like me dissing someone for being harsh and straightforward and not sugar coating opinions.....I would really have no right or credibility to do so.

Last post about this in this thread......promise.

 

[The Dude]

There is a difference in having slow payments and trying to cover it up somehow, and having slow payments and making it explicitly known in the terms and conditions. If the terms state that the payment processing takes two weeks, then fine. The onus is on the player to make a decision for himself whether or not to accept it.

 

[Nifty29]

There is a difference in having slow payments and trying to cover it up somehow, and having slow payments and making it explicitly known in the terms and conditions. If the terms state that the payment processing takes two weeks, then fine. The onus is on the player to make a decision for himself whether or not to accept it.

AFAIK, virtual state that they have long processing times e.g. 10-14 days. I wasn't aware they covered up the fact..?

As I said, even with virtuals long delays and stalling, they probably pay faster overall than $500 per fortnight.

My argument isn't that players aren't responsible for their actions. My argument is that crap payment terms exist because affiliates allow them to exist. It is disingenuous for an affiliate to say one group are rogues due to their unethical payment terms whilst they promote casinos with equally crap terms themselves.

Affiliates play a big part in what operators get away with.

 

[KasinoKing]

You defend and promote a group of appalling slow payers, and consider another group of appalling slow payers to be rogue due to their appalling slow paying. It's called double standards.

Once again - I don't recall EVER saying I consider the Virtual Group rogue due to the policy of slow paying which is stated in their T&Cs.
If I did, I would be obliged if you would point me in the direction of the post where I said it.

Look, there are things about many casinos with I don't LIKE, for exapmle... let’s look at some similar casinos who take Americans (some of whom are Accredited here) and have terms which I don’t LIKE:

Club World Group: Minimum cash-out for USA players is $350 (at Win Palace group it’s only $100).
No students under 25-years old – how ridiculous is that!

iNetBet: No live chat – how ludicrous!

MainStreet Group: Wagering for non-USA players is 3.33 times more than Americans = insane!

SlotLand and Win-A-Day; Only process cash-outs on one particular day each week – WTF?

So are you saying I shouldn't promote any of those casinos just because there's a term or 2 that I don't LIKE?
Or are you saying that any casino which has a term YOU don't like should just be arbitrarily thrown in the Rogue Pit along with all affiliates who have the audacity to promote them?

Last post about this in this thread......promise.

Really?

This is my last post on this subject too.
As it happens the casinos you hate so vehemently will probably not be on my site for much longer anyway - but that's a different story...

KK

 

[Googobucs]

Club World Group: Minimum cash-out for USA players is $350 (at Win Palace group it’s only $100).

The minimum at CW is $20 using pay my card for USA. $350 for Wire. We do a get a raw deal in the states on most things, but CW does a good job on this particular item.

 

[chayton]

There is a difference in having slow payments and trying to cover it up somehow, and having slow payments and making it explicitly known in the terms and conditions. If the terms state that the payment processing takes two weeks, then fine. The onus is on the player to make a decision for himself whether or not to accept it.

One of the main issues in the past is that players who read the T&Cs knew that it will take a long time and they accepted that (which is just mindboggling) but then the casino dicked them around with constant excuses for another 2 or 4 or 6 weeks ON TOP of their posted cashout timeframes.

Virtual has 10-14 days pending then another 10-14 days processing - in my math that's 28 days tops - so why do they make people wait 2 or 3 months - or longer - to get paid? Not to mention that most of the time the players have to constantly be bugging support and asking where their payout is to even get that?

 

[Googobucs]

This is just the past 2 days. Clearly these guys are not reading this thread or just don't give a crap.

 

[same_old]

This is just the past 2 days. Clearly these guys are not reading this thread or just don't give a crap.

View attachment 43499

Yep, I get the exact same thing.

 

[greedygirl]

Googo and same old, can you please forward those emails to me at: [email protected]? I'd like to look into these, further.

Thanks!

 

[Tirilej]

Googo and same old, can you please forward those emails to me at: [email protected]? I'd like to look into these, further.

Thanks!

I believe you will get a tough job if you want to look at all spam they are sending out. Like most in this thread have said the spam increased with this thread for some reason. Normally I don't get so much from them but in the last few weeks I'm sure it's up to a hundred.

 

[greedygirl]

I believe you will get a tough job if you want to look at all spam they are sending out. Like most in this thread have said the spam increased with this thread for some reason. Normally I don't get so much from them but in the last few weeks I'm sure it's up to a hundred.

I'm used to tough jobs.

I want to see where these emails are being generated from--are they coming from the casino direct or from affiliates. If the issue is as prevalent as everyone is saying it is, it needs to be dealt with and the first step is seeing these emails.

That being said, let's just start with the emails from Googobucs and same_old--I don't need the entire CM membership sending me every email they've received. That would be just plain mean!

 

[maphesto]

That being said, let's just start with the emails from Googobucs and same_old--I don't need the entire CM membership sending me every email they've received. That would be just plain mean!

You should then put spaces between name and address, that prevents some spam. Like this: greedygirl @ gonegambling.com

 

[Nate]

@ GreedyGirl

I know its impossible for you to reply to every post in this thread; However, I think that I have a valid question:

Why are the terms of being removed from the Pit being dictated by VIRTUAL and not by Casinomeister. As mentioned in a previous post, their agreements are sub standard. It's either they act and behave like a decent Casino or just remain in the pit. There's no 'Halfway' or makeshift solution here.

I've mentioned before - Sure - Give them a shot however they need to align their standards to that of other trustworthy Casinos before they emerge. I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with baby steps. Baby steps mean they still screw the player... just a wee bit less.

Nate

 

[Googobucs]

Googo and same old, can you please forward those emails to me at: [email protected]? I'd like to look into these, further.

Thanks!

I would be happy to forward them to you as long as you don't share my e-mail address with these groups. I don't want the issue to get worse out of spite. IMO they are not nice people.

 

[wigan rl]

Greedy and Bryan i'm going to chuck my 2c in.

I had never heard what had gone on until in read this and did some searches to understand what all the hate was about and now i do understand why like whats been said here how many more chances do you give someone?

Your flogging a dead horse here imo i've been gaming for about 1 year now online and like most cashout times is the first thing i look for in a new casino 10,12,14 days is just way to long i play at jpp,redbet,32red,ladbrokes and betfair yes betfair but your money is back in your account 2 days later max this day and age min 10 days is a joke is there a reason you can share to why that is?

Us humans are programmed and set in our ways if you go out for a meal at a new restaurant and it's really bad do you go back there? NO

On the flip side to that a convict escapes from prison where do the police go looking first? Places they know family friends etc... cause it's instinct

Will i deposit there? No and i will be voting to keep them in the rouge pit fool you once shame on you, fool you twice shame on me

 

[Googobucs]

Haha...I love this analogy

 

[greedygirl]

@ GreedyGirl

I know its impossible for you to reply to every post in this thread; However, I think that I have a valid question:

Why are the terms of being removed from the Pit being dictated by VIRTUAL and not by Casinomeister. As mentioned in a previous post, their agreements are sub standard. It's either they act and behave like a decent Casino or just remain in the pit. There's no 'Halfway' or makeshift solution here.

I've mentioned before - Sure - Give them a shot however they need to align their standards to that of other trustworthy Casinos before they emerge. I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with baby steps. Baby steps mean they still screw the player... just a wee bit less.

Nate

Nate--Virtual has dictated nothing in this, whatsoever and I'm not sure why you would assert this. Further, I don't disagree with you regarding raising their standards. I feel a bit like a broken record, but I want to see massive change and I'm doing my best to instill these changes with these companies. Believe me, it would be VERY easy to walk away from this--it would certainly be far less stress and headaches from all sides. I've come this far, though--I've seen players paid and other changes, which encourage me to continue forward and hopefully get the standards everyone is screaming for. This is my goal and whether I walk away proud or with egg on my face remains to be seen. Fortunately, the powers-that-be appear to be motivated and until I no longer see this mindset, I'm gonna plug away.

I would be happy to forward them to you as long as you don't share my e-mail address with these groups. I don't want the issue to get worse out of spite. IMO they are not nice people.

Googo--you have my word, I will not share any information. Pinky swear.

 

[albrco123]

Question for CM

Looking at the current CM status of both groups Virtual is currently Rogued and Ace Revenue in the Not Recommended section, should either/both of these groups pass probation and the membership vote what CM Status would they be "promoted" to afterwards?

Just curious

Al

 

[maphesto]

Looking at the current CM status of both groups Virtual is currently Rogued and Ace Revenue in the Not Recommended section, should either/both of these groups pass probation and the membership vote what CM Status would they be "promoted" to afterwards?

Just curious

Al

I think it's safe to say that these casinos NEVER will be promoted here. To be able to advertise here they have to be accredited, and they will never become accredited.

 

[KasinoKing]

I think it's safe to say that these casinos NEVER will be promoted here. To be able to advertise here they have to be accredited, and they will never become accredited.

I think you mis-read the question!

If memory serves correct, I believe Bryan said they would be "promoted" (i.e. moved up) to the Reservation Section.

KK

 

[Googobucs]

I think you mis-read the question!

If memory serves correct, I believe Bryan said they would be "promoted" (i.e. moved up) to the Reservation Section.

KK

I'm glad you re-iterated this. I had been thinking they were going from rogue to Not recommended and i see now one is already been move to not recommended(or mabe they were always here and I did not notice). I might have been OK with that, but I do see the distinction now between Rogue, Not recommended and Reservation. I had not really noticed that clear distinction previously.
thanks

 

[maphesto]

I think you mis-read the question!

Eh...Yes!

 

[BMWSTACK]

I feel a bit like a broken record, but I want to see massive change and I'm doing my best to instill these changes with these companies. Believe me, it would be VERY easy to walk away from this--it would certainly be far less stress and headaches from all sides. I've come this far, though--I've seen players paid and other changes, which encourage me to continue forward and hopefully get the standards everyone is screaming for.

Why select the worst group known to online gambling? Why not a group that actually has the potential to be better? For example: (disclosure---I do not play nor will play what I am about to mention)

The Slots Jungle group--- Their name is less trashed than virtual. There are probably less complaints on them. Their name is a little less tainted than Virtual. They are a little further up than Virtual. This would possible be a more ideal type of born again group.

 

[albrco123]

Thanks,

If Bryan or Max could clarify which section/s each of the groups would end up in if probation/vote was passed this would be helpful.

Apologies in advance if this information is already out there and I missed it.

Al

 

[albrco123]

I think it's safe to say that these casinos NEVER will be promoted here. To be able to advertise here they have to be accredited, and they will never become accredited.

I do agree with you that passing of probation is unlikely and passing a CM membership vote even more unlikely however I was just curious to know what would happen if they did pass and where they would end up listed on CM

Al

 

[Cleveland]

I think the point has been made after 24 pages. This is where we are. I'm sure the players Greedy has helped get paid are very thankful she chose this path. This doesn't change anything in terms of new players signing up at the casinos. If they were to read anything here or this thread they would see the casino's history and understand what is being attempted by the CM team. All of this is clearly being documented, and should they pass, then the info would be placed with whatever their new listing is at CM. If you read the other sections for the not recommended or reservation, it just doesn't list them but it gives the details of their listing. In other words new players won't come here and read how great the casino's are. They will see that they were once rogue, and are still at risk. This really changes nothing in the end in terms of getting new players to sign up there. Other than the ones who will "test" the waters. This likely will end up helping more than hurting players as been said Greedy has already seen players being paid because of all this.

I know many feel that this will send droves of new players to their gambling deaths. But in reality if those new players are reading the listings at CM they will see the reason why these casinos are listed the way they are and will be going in with a full understanding of the risk. In the end at least some players / cases are currently being solved because of all this.

Not to mention they may not even pass. Point is 24 pages of the same will give us the same. Clearly Greedy is moving forward as she already has put in a load of time working on this. Why not discuss ways to minimize any fall out from this or ways to make it a success or positive or something, I dunno. But I do know another "I hate them post," does nothing in terms of where this is going. I''m sure it's clear now they are hated.

 

[Nifty29]

I think the point has been made after 24 pages. This is where we are. I'm sure the players Greedy has helped get paid are very thankful she chose this path. This doesn't change anything in terms of new players signing up at the casinos. If they were to read anything here or this thread they would see the casino's history and understand what is being attempted by the CM team. All of this is clearly being documented, and should they pass, then the info would be placed with whatever their new listing is at CM. If you read the other sections for the not recommended or reservation, it just doesn't list them but it gives the details of their listing. In other words new players won't come here and read how great the casino's are. They will see that they were once rogue, and are still at risk. This really changes nothing in the end in terms of getting new players to sign up there. Other than the ones who will "test" the waters. This likely will end up helping more than hurting players as been said Greedy has already seen players being paid because of all this.

I know many feel that this will send droves of new players to their gambling deaths. But in reality if those new players are reading the listings at CM they will see the reason why these casinos are listed the way they are and will be going in with a full understanding of the risk. In the end at least some players / cases are currently being solved because of all this.

Not to mention they may not even pass. Point is 24 pages of the same will give us the same. Clearly Greedy is moving forward as she already has put in a load of time working on this. Why not discuss ways to minimize any fall out from this or ways to make it a success or positive or something, I dunno. But I do know another "I hate them post," does nothing in terms of where this is going. I''m sure it's clear now they are hated.

Which brings me back to my earlier point....

Why the big effort on Virtuals part?

I mean, why go to the trouble to be moved from one CM "avoid this casino" category to another "avoid this casino" category? In the end, they're still advised against.

I don't get it. Makes no sense....and I don't like stuff that doesn't make sense.

If it were BOF or a total removal from all forms of roguedom, then fair enough. Otherwise....well I'm left scratching my head.

I will say one thing.....if it takes two years for them to reduce their payout times from abhorrent to abysmal (a slight improvement), then I'd say the chances of them behaving like a 32Red etc any time in my lifetime is pretty much zero. I'd really like to be wrong.

 

[Cleveland]

Which brings me back to my earlier point....

Why the big effort on Virtuals part?

I mean, why go to the trouble to be moved from one CM "avoid this casino" category to another "avoid this casino" category? In the end, they're still advised against.

I don't get it. Makes no sense....and I don't like stuff that doesn't make sense.

If it were BOF or a total removal from all forms of roguedom, then fair enough. Otherwise....well I'm left scratching my head.

I will say one thing.....if it takes two years for them to reduce their payout times from abhorrent to abysmal (a slight improvement), then I'd say the chances of them behaving like a 32Red etc any time in my lifetime is pretty much zero. I'd really like to be wrong.

I guess if you can get the worst of the worst to change the rest are cake walks. Although passing a BBF would take a miracle, and would likely be akin to all CM members striking it rich at the same time.

 

[The Dude]

Why select the worst group known to online gambling? Why not a group that actually has the potential to be better? For example: (disclosure---I do not play nor will play what I am about to mention)

The Slots Jungle group--- Their name is less trashed than virtual. There are probably less complaints on them. Their name is a little less tainted than Virtual. They are a little further up than Virtual. This would possible be a more ideal type of born again group.

Sometimes it's unfortunate that I am privy to the "behind the scenes" situations of some casino groups. It would be safe to say that I would not entertain any discussion about the Winpalace/Affactive group of casinos. I'll leave that at that.

Moving on, there seems to be some erroneous information that keeps popping up in this thread. One thing is that no one at Virtual requested this - I took this on myself to clean up the Rogue section. It's outdated, and to keep it effective and informative, I need to make sure that it reflects things as they are. No complaints for two years? Then I need to remain objective and investigate why. This is one way to do it. Bring them out into the open and give everyone the chance to see if they have actually made changes.

This thread has been active for about two weeks - requesting anyone to submit PABs if they have any valid complaints. I would have expected a handful (you guys may have expected bucket loads ), but so we have received none - zero. Not even bogus or invalid ones. I know that there's another thread concerning Silver Oak. We are waiting for that one and then we'll see how that goes. So it is what it is.

Sure there are complaints on their length of their withdrawal times. But if they admit that's how long it takes, and that it's in their terms and conditions, then the onus is on the player to make a choice whether they choose a casino with those terms or not. No one has submitted a PAB yet on being screwed over on some dubious pay-out scheme. We are able and willing to take these complaints by the horns.

As for what category they'll be listed under if they pass the probation period? Possibly a special entry in the reservation section that would document their in-and-out of rogueness at Casinomeister. That would give everyone enough information to make educated decisions for themselves.

 

[LaHutti]

Sometimes it's unfortunate that I am privy to the "behind the scenes" situations of some casino groups. It would be safe to say that I would not entertain any discussion about the Winpalace/Affactive group of casinos. I'll leave that at that.

Moving on, there seems to be some erroneous information that keeps popping up in this thread. One thing is that no one at Virtual requested this - I took this on myself to clean up the Rogue section. It's outdated, and to keep it effective and informative, I need to make sure that it reflects things as they are. No complaints for two years? Then I need to remain objective and investigate why. This is one way to do it. Bring them out into the open and give everyone the chance to see if they have actually made changes.

This thread has been active for about two weeks - requesting anyone to submit PABs if they have any valid complaints. I would have expected a handful (you guys may have expected bucket loads ), but so we have received none - zero. Not even bogus or invalid ones. I know that there's another thread concerning Silver Oak. We are waiting for that one and then we'll see how that goes. So it is what it is.

Sure there are complaints on their length of their withdrawal times. But if they admit that's how long it takes, and that it's in their terms and conditions, then the onus is on the player to make a choice whether they choose a casino with those terms or not. No one has submitted a PAB yet on being screwed over on some dubious pay-out scheme. We are able and willing to take these complaints by the horns.

As for what category they'll be listed under if they pass the probation period? Possibly a special entry in the reservation section that would document their in-and-out of rogueness at Casinomeister. That would give everyone enough information to make educated decisions for themselves.

I can't say that I'm surprised, not because I think they got any better but ... did anyone play there ??

 

[Cleveland]

I can't say that I'm surprised, not because I think they got any better but ... did anyone play there ??

I'm guessing old complaints count as well.

Then again if they are old they probably already have those Fairly certain though that part of something (maybe it's the BBF) is that past complaints be solved and not left open. I'm feeling lazy so don't care to look it up right now.

 

[chayton]

I can't say that I'm surprised, not because I think they got any better but ... did anyone play there ??

That's the thing exactly...if people here are playing here they're doing it in secret. Also there's never been a question about these groups as far as signing up or taking bonuses or playing. They even have quite good customer service. Free chips like candy. Until someone wins something and tries to cash out that's when the problems start.

So even IF there are a couple of people around here who decided to 'take one for the team' first of all they have to win something, which isn't all that easy. Then considering that it takes appx a month from the time a player cashes out til the time frame window these casinos leave themself before the runaround starts....

I think it's a little premature to think they're reformed just because there aren't a whole pile of PABs already. If they can go the whole six months, we'll see....

 

[The Dude]

I'm guessing old complaints count as well.

Then again if they are old they probably already have those Fairly certain though that part of something (maybe it's the BBF) is that past complaints be solved and not left open. I'm feeling lazy so don't care to look it up right now.

All complaints - past and current complaints that are unresolved.

 

[Nate]

I can see people being duped to join IF they are removed out of the pit...

'Hi Guys, I joined CoolCat Casino, and I have not received my winnings. Support keep on making promises but I have been waiting for 4 months. I checked the rogue list and they are not there....'

Nate

 

[chuchu59]

I can see people being duped to join IF they are removed out of the pit...

'Hi Guys, I joined CoolCat Casino, and I have not received my winnings. Support keep on making promises but I have been waiting for 4 months. I checked the rogue list and they are not there....'

Nate

Worse still, they were in the rogue pit but maybe they were reformed as they have been removed from the pit. Guess its safe now.

 

[Sovietsky]

I can see people being duped to join IF they are removed out of the pit...

'Hi Guys, I joined CoolCat Casino, and I have not received my winnings. Support keep on making promises but I have been waiting for 4 months. I checked the rogue list and they are not there....'

Nate

People will be pissed, CM and greedygirl will be the targets. It will be like a train wreck.

 

[Cleveland]

People will be pissed, CM and greedygirl will be the targets. It will be like a train wreck.

If people are here at cm doing their research they will see the same information about the listed casinos no matter what section the casinos are in. As nifty pointed out its still akin to an avoid this casino section.

If an employer does a thorough background check on an applicant and sees they have been handled for theft multiple times its now on the employer to make the choice to employee or not. It isn't the fault of the parolee board, the social worker that helped get them on their feet, or halfway house. The same information regarding the casinos past as well as why they are listed as they are will be posted next to the casinos name.

Only a fool would see a casino in say the not recommended section and see the listed info / reasons on side of it and think "hey they aren't rogue any more." If players begin to get screwed then I'm sure in time they will be back where they belong BUT let's not make it seem as if those players didn't know what they were getting into. It's like saying someone reading this thread was some how duped into depositing to test the waters. No they knew all the important info going in and chose to play. I was going to deposit but played back too many winnings elsewhere so I will have to hold off on testing the waters. However if / when I do I won't be complaining that it was someone else's fault that I got screwed. I will simply pass the info to the cm team and hopefully they will be rouged again if need be. It keeps the process at cm clear and unbiased.

And still again I mention what about the players who have been helped because of this? If they are now being paid or issues being resolved why wouldn't this process move forward? Give it time and all things come out in the wash.

 

[maphesto]

Resolved issue
There was for me an issue with Slots of Vegas from aug 2009, which I had forgotten about when Marty Davis was here. Now, when they are on probation I checked all my saved conversations with casino reps from them and I noticed again that I have a really bad memory.

Cindygreco helped me to obtain the dates and the amount involved (144$). When i told her the reason for my declined withdrawal, I received them on my NetEller account.

Out of four issues with Virtual Group in 2009, Marty Davis helped me with two and this probation period and reps helped me with the rest.

 

[same_old]

Resolved issue
There was for me an issue with Slots of Vegas from aug 2009, which I had forgotten about when Marty Davis was here. Now, when they are on probation I checked all my saved conversations with casino reps from them and I noticed again that I have a really bad memory.

Cindygreco helped me to obtain the dates and the amount involved (144$). When i told her the reason for my declined withdrawal, I received them on my NetEller account.

Out of four issues with Virtual Group in 2009, Marty Davis helped me with two and this probation period and reps helped me with the rest.

4+ Years and you got your few hundred out of them finally huh
I'm on my way to deposit there now.

To be honest there are that many casino's out there why even bother with a potential headache when you know you can play at places that won't give you a headache.

 

[maphesto]

To be honest there are that many casino's out there why even bother with a potential headache when you know you can play at places that won't give you a headache.

If this is directed to me, I can honestly say that I haven't deposit at one of these casinos in years. When I did, I wasn't aware of all the good casinos out there.

4+ Years and you got your few hundred out of them finally huh
I'm on my way to deposit there now.

As a proud member of this forum I think it's appropriate to update the thread about resolved issues when a casino group is on probation. I did it in 2010 when Marty Davis was here too. I wasn't posting this info to make you go there and deposit, I post because it is expected of me as a member.

 

[pkrgoddess]

I have had issues with cool cat casino, slots of vegas, and many others. I don't trust them, for all you know they may be attempting to appear straight just long enough to make a huge final cash out. I agree with Clayton, no complaints because most new online gamblers get broke in on these casino's first with the lure of abundant no deposit bonus codes floating around the web, and they burn thru the rogue casinos until they find a legitimate site, at which time they are so relieved they rarely dare to stray from it, to risk the loss at these old bait and switch shops or newly opened sites. Just my opinion. (and personal experience)
I will tell you this though, the two casinos I am a regular at, outside of some of the microgaming casinos which no longer accept or allow US players, are Go Casino Golden Casino and Online Vegas, neither of which are accredited here on casinomeister, nor can I find any info about them on casinomeister such as baptism by fire etc., but they have however, never failed to pay me my withdrawls of which I have had in the thousands. I won over 17,000$ in the month of February 2012 alone, so I am confident about getting paid my winnings as they have never failed to do so in the many years I have been with them now. I will say however, they have let me down in so much as they have made me a cash only player and will not allow me any deposit bonuses or players reward points, not nil nada nothing to express appreciation for my loyalty to them. I am aware that they simply do not wish to provide me with the funds to win on there sites, legitimate reason but not in my opinion a professional one, nor a very appreciative response to my loyalty, with that being said though I will still play there because they do pay out. Just slowly sometimes up to 2 weeks. but I simply grit my teeth and bear with it since I know it will actually arrive. I recently began to play at Liberty Slots, Lincoln Slots and Miami Club Casino, the later two I do not deposit at , I only play the tournaments, partly out of the fact that Miami Club Casino offers (on a regular basis, deposit bonus not of the norm, like a 290% match etc, and this simply reminds me to much of those rogue casinos that burnt me in the early days, Liberty slots casino however has received a few hundred in deposits from me because they do allow me the deposit bonuses I am begrudge out of at Go and Golden, and I will spend a little with them until I win so I can test them on their honesty in pay outs, and if they pass the test they will get the bulk of my gaming business, since they are giving me the deposit bonuses I no longer receive at my preferred casinos.
Jessie