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Sure Win Cup CANCELLED less than 1 hour before it was due to be completed. WTF?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by mcgameboy, Nov 3, 2014.

    Nov 3, 2014
  1. mcgameboy

    mcgameboy Screenieholic & Essayist mm2

    Occupation:
    Casual Stocktaker (Inventory Counter)
    Location:
    Belfast
    The title says it all.....and yeah I am SUPER PISSED about it.....:mad:

    I had three entries sitting in 8th, 16th and 64th place as at 11pm Sunday, less than one hour before the tournament was due to finish. I was on course for a payday of 500 euro (about £400). MORE than what the winner of the tournament himself/herself was due to win.

    Not to mention that there are probably QUITE A LOT of players who paid for rebuys and continues.

    Surely MG cannot seriously be allowed to pull a stunt like that? With the amount of money they make?

    Not on.....seriously not f**king on!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Nov 3, 2014
  3. rshkrn

    rshkrn Senior Member

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    Asia
    Did you speak to CS or send an email? Whats their explanation for doing that?
     
  4. Nov 3, 2014
  5. mcgameboy

    mcgameboy Screenieholic & Essayist mm2

    Occupation:
    Casual Stocktaker (Inventory Counter)
    Location:
    Belfast
    I spoke to CS at Golden Lounge (that was the entry I had in 64th place). They were already aware of the cancellation of the tournament and are awaiting a response from MG on the matter. I'm really looking forward to reading the BS excuse that MG come up with here to avoid having to pay out the prizes.

    Of course, they will happily pocket the proceeds they acquired from players who paid for rebuys and continues. And we just have to suck it up and take it up the arse.

    If I pay to play and lose, I have to accept it. And I do.

    Now I am being told that if I pay to play and WIN, I actually STILL LOSE.

    Can someone tell me where exactly is the fairness in that?

    It's bad enough that we have to do our due diligence in order to avoid rogue casinos, but now we can't even depend on a software provider
    to play fair.

    It bloody stinks. :mad:
     
  6. Nov 3, 2014
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Maybe this is worthy of a complaint under the new UK regulations. It's one thing to cancel a tournament before it starts, but it shouldn't be cancelled when it is almost over. MGS have been doing this more than once, and the excuse IS about not wanting to pay the prizes when they have not made enough money from the rebuys and continues, yet when a tournament is more popular that forecast, they are quite happy to keep the entire surplus as a windfall profit rather than feed some of the excess into the prize pool. Players would have a good case for being paid on the positions they held when the tournament was ended early. They would probably have to make the complaint against the operator, as it is they who have the contract with the player, and it will be up to the operator to deal with Microgaming.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Nov 3, 2014
  9. rshkrn

    rshkrn Senior Member

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    Asia
    Don't think you'd get the amount you'd have won if it's cancelled anyways but quite positive that everyone would get back their money used for rebuys.....it would be outright roguish not do that...
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Nov 3, 2014
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They do refund the money spent, but that isn't the point. Players have played. It's no different from having your winnings confiscated and deposit returned purely on the whim of the casino. The tournament was allowed to run right up to the last hour, so it should have been allowed to complete. If the operators lose money on it, TOUGH!, that's gambling - they are sure to make money on the next tournament they set up as they can alter the prizes and costs based on how the previous events performed. MGS are pulling this stunt far too often, it's not just on rare occasions. It just gets noticed more when they cancel a major tournament.
     
  12. Nov 3, 2014
  13. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    The tournament started, ran and ended perfectly right. I was in there playing to the last min. But rather than “finished” its status changed to “canceled”. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that tournament in all the past 4 weeks.
     
  14. Nov 3, 2014
  15. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    CS , after pressure, said they don’t have the results from MG. If they lost the winner list I will be more than happy to provide my screenshot of my position. Always take a screenshot of your winning position!

    I do believe that refunding rebuys and continues of 15.000 players will cost them more. Maybe they are waiting when the slots are dead, and then pay :D
     
  16. Nov 3, 2014
  17. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Almost made this thread myself yesterday, but i had been waiting up, stoked to play my 9th placement... just like nikant stated, it ran fine, just until it ended and then instead of finished said cancelled, only to disappear completely from the list a few minutes later..

    Like stated, it ran fine but there was already a bug, at least in my lobby, several days ago at the start of round 4 i noticed that the list of players reflected in the lobby was quite different then the active leaderboard inside the machine.

    I notified someone, who said they would look into it but it would take time, and didn't hear back yet, but assuming i will soon, still, i felt a little uneasy, as for one thing my position wasn't reflected in the lobby. and i got a bad feeling about it.

    Just in case, i took a screenie of both the main lobby and the tourney lobby a few seconds apart. If need be i will supply those, as the timestamp is undeniable (date created/ time is 1 minute apart, tourney ID is visible in both.)

    I will wait till support get back to me but simply stated, i won't be depositing a penny in any Casino that has an MG game until i have my prize money, it's a matter of principle here, i would feel royally screwed if they somehow don't pay~!


    We'll see...
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Nov 3, 2014
  19. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    FYI just logged in to play the daily freeroll, and see that it's back on the board, this time with correct leaderboard, and i assume the prizes have been awarded too, will check asap.


    Edit:
    Yes, prize paid, seems all is well again!
    Still wondering what the heck happened!
    If any MG Casino rep here read this, and knows what happened i would appreciate any comment.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Nov 3, 2014
  21. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    Yes! Paid!
    Straight to withdrawal, just in case my theory for dead slots is right! :D
     
  22. Nov 3, 2014
  23. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    Update

    Hi Guys,

    Apologies for any issues with the tournaments over the weekend, I have just heard that there were some delays on the network which are being investigated. We're advised that all winnings have been paid, would you let me know if that isn't the case?

    Thanks
    Mark
     
    5 people like this.
  24. Nov 3, 2014
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Could you please send Microgaming HQ a dictionary so that they can look up the word "cancelled" and use it more appropriately in future.:rolleyes:

    Now, if Microgaming didn't have a habit of cancelling tournaments, something when they are part way through, and I mean REALLY cancelled as confirmed after aggrieved players contact casino CS, then such things would not stir up so much anger among participants.

    I think "results pending" would be a better description to add to a tournament that has completed, but where the verification and awarding of prizes is taking longer than usual. In the past, I have seen a tournament simply disappear as though it never existed, and this was because there was a delay in verifying the results and the crediting of prizes. It reappeared later the next afternoon with the prizes being credited then, rather than almost straight away as is usual.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Nov 3, 2014
  27. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas

    I think you shouldn't make so many assumptions...

    We do not know anything happened as a result of manual intervention / wasn't the result of a software issue. Do we know for sure that the tournaments have the software settings to allow for a "results pending" status? (As opposed to 'scheduled', 'in play', 'cancelled', and/or 'completed'. (Yes, I appreciate that if the software should have been written to accommodate any and all possible outcomes & if it had, we may not be in this situation. Unfortunately no one is perfect, and mistakes can be made)).

    Perhaps there also wouldn't be so much anger being stirred-up if people waited until CS got back to them with the official answers, rather than fuel the fire of speculation. (Realistically, that will be some time during normal office hours UK time, Mon-Fri. (Every company I've worked with, that's when the most senior members of staff (inc their software developers) are working, so that's probably when any non-critical issues are going to be investigated and resolved. (This appears to have been an error with a single instance of a tournament, rather than a casino outage, hence my thoughts it being viewed as non-critical. This is in no way meant to devalue any players who were participating in the tournament)). As someone who's been here as long as you have, I think many (or just perhaps just me) would expect you to have a more pragmatic view on events. Yes, tournaments may have had issues historically, and yes, when humans and software is involved, errors and mistakes are likely to happen again. However, why not wait until facts known before grabbing the torches & pitchforks?

    I will say that the 3rd paragraph in your post does contain a good suggestion, however it could be missed because of the way you worded the first 2.


    IMO exactly the right thing to do :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 3, 2014
  29. davdav5678

    davdav5678 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Architects
    Location:
    ESSEX UK
    Seems to be a lot of software issues with mircogaming and 32 red of late :rolleyes:
     
  30. Nov 4, 2014
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    There have been issues in the past with MGS cancelling tournaments without explanation, so no wonder they are not really trusted when it comes to a tournament showing up as "cancelled" after players have paid to compete and the tournament is running. The only obvious provision for cancellation is when the minimum number of players has not been reached, and in such cases, the tournament doesn't start.


    Microgaming needs to get away from their "no comment" policy towards players, and even towards casino operators, when there is a query about something that is not right with their software or systems.

    I have asked a number of questions myself, and it is clear to me that the reason I don't get answers is that Microgaming refuse to supply them to the casino owners/operators. I then find that the answers I get back are vague, and differ between different operators for the same problem or query. Only the passage of time converts these answers from vague, but often the conversion is to bullshit. After all, how long does "routine maintenance" take on a game that has been pulled? At what point can I call bullshit on such an answer?
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Nov 4, 2014
  33. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas
    As I posted in another thread here (and Bryan posted originally)...

    "MGS is not allowed to deal directly with players. Not because they don't want to, but because they can't by law. The regulations on the Isle of man state that if you don't have a gaming license - you don't deal with players - simple as that. "


    Surprised you're still insisting that it's Microgaming policy not to respond - you clearly saw Bryan's post following the visit as you've posted in that very same original thread.

    I appreciate this may not suit player requirements, but laws are there for a reason. I dare say MGS (and other providers licensed in the same jurisdiction) may feel frustrated when they see hearsay & conjecture running rife on the internet & are unable to respond.



    Again you seem to be assuming because you think/say something, then it's correct.

    How do you know Microgaming refuse to supply answers? Perhaps they have, and maybe some of those answers are bound by confidentiality clauses(?). Perhaps also the reason you say you've received vague or differing answers is because Owners/Operators have had something from MGS, but that message has become diluted by the time it's reached front-line support. This could very well explain why "the passage of time" these answers then become clearer?



    Perhaps this is the crux of everything you base every comment on...? Yes, we all know you managed to get good win(s) on some 'fruity' type slots (goodness knows you take every opportunity to remind the dear readers of your posts about it). A game you had success on was removed - get over it.



    Please don't think I'm trying to wage any personal things here... This forum is meant to help support and educate players. I just worry when I read things that are posted about issues, the threads are then use it to propagate speculation, incorrect assumptions, or as an opportunity to 'soap-box' their own personal issues. I appreciate that it can be human nature to speculate and gossip, but surely someone as experienced as yourself should know that when trying to provide assistance to others, unless you know all the facts, it's always best to caveat your responses as a guess, assumption, or speculation?


    /derail & back on subject...

    I'm glad the tournament issue was resolved quickly & everyone got paid as expected.
     
  34. Nov 4, 2014
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So, why can't MGS simply admit games are removed. Why the bullshit?

    The correct procedure may well be to use the operator as a conduit, but how come this doesn't work?

    I am NOT just talking about front line CS either, I am talking of contacts high in the operator's organisation. Unlike front line CS, they should know everything that MGS tells operators. It is bullshit to suggest that the fact that a specific game has been removed for good is bound by a confidentiality clause, even if the business reasons for doing so are.

    MGS seem able to deal with the press, the laws don't stop them talking to journalists who are well known for wanting to get their teeth into a good story.

    As has been highlighted before, operators and software suppliers who hide behind their lawyers and the Data protection act are making themselves look "shifty".

    MGS has until recently refused to reveal the RTP of their games, but under the new UK regulations they now HAVE to. It seems that the law trumps commercial confidentiality, yet the casinos and offshore licencing juristictions were claiming that players were adequately protected and informed under the old regime, and the new UK regime had nothing to do with enhancing player protection.

    If MGS don't have a gaming licence, how come they can operate the network tournaments that involve MGS directly dealing with players, albeit through the operators?
     
  36. Nov 4, 2014
  37. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas
    So why not speak to a journalist & ask them to investigate anything you believe is untoward?


    Hiding behind lawyers and data protection, or behaving the way you'd expect any law abiding organisation to?

    If you believe any company is untrustworthy, vote with your wallet & don't give them another penny of your hard earned cash. Crying 'foul' at every opportunity, but then continuing to play their games is somewhat contradictory, don't you think?


    As you're aware, successful slots have been previously copied - remember the Salus version of Thunderstruck? (screenshot here (your reference to it here)). Rather than thinking there's something to hide, take a step back... If you wanted to copy a game, I think you'll agree that knowing it's RTP would give you a fantastic opportunity to reverse-engineer it(? (I'm not suggesting this is the reason, but I am trying to show there's always two sides to everything & it's not always for unscrupulous reasons)).

    As you say, the new regulations ensure that the information you seek will be available. Will you feel safer with that?


    Dealing directly is not doing it through someone else.

    You cannot go to Microgaming (or NetEnt, Playtech, Bally, Williams Interactive, etc) and register, deposit, or play for real money. By definition, this means you are not their player.



    As previously stated, this thread is getting off-topic & I don't want to hijack it (especially seeing as the original issue is resolved). Feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss any points further.
     
  38. Nov 4, 2014
  39. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    Yes players have been paid for this.
    But maybe only because it would cost more to cancel the tournament and pay back add ons.
    Tournaments get cancelled when the cost of buy ins and add ons is less than the prize money even though the min number of players has been reached. Take the last 300 Blackjack. Min number of players 21, players listed 21, tournament gets canceled.

    That is BS IMHO. If you want you can always increase the min player requirement to your satisfaction. If there is a technical problem you can always reschedule it, or pay according to latest position. Otherwise it is like refusing to pay winnings. And what is up with all that problems anyway!
     
    3 people like this.

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