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Casino Complaint Staybet confiscated ~€2770, would like some input

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by McMaNGOS, Oct 10, 2017.

    Oct 10, 2017
  1. McMaNGOS

    McMaNGOS #1 Great Blue Shill PABnononaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Automation Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    So... I've gotten into quite a complicated situation with Staybet. I've spoken with one of their customer support reps, and PM'd their rep on here (who hasn't been on for over a month, and I highly doubt I'd get a different answer), so now I've decided to turn to the general public for advice on what to do next.

    It started a couple of months ago when I deposited and claimed a bonus offer. I beat the wagering requirements, tried to cash out, but the withdrawal was rejected because my account wasn't verified. It wasn't an extraordinary win or anything, so I felt no need to go out of my way to verify my account, so the money stayed in my balance for quite some time. Skip forward to mid/late September, where I receive a new bonus offer from them. I decide to claim it, so I log in to my account, see that I have money in my balance (which I had honestly pretty much forgotten about), submit a withdrawal request along with some verification documents, then deposit €50 to claim the new bonus. All good so far.

    I start playing with this new bonus, and I get quite lucky. My balance was around €2770-ish when wagering was finished, so I was naturally very happy with my session. I then make a second withdrawal for this newly-won amount, and leave it at that. After a bit of a back-and-forth regarding documents for verification, my account is verified, and they begin processing my payout(s). Shortly afterwards, I'm contacted by a customer support representative, who's saying that my funds have been confiscated, and the deposit I made to claim the second bonus has been returned to my account. Turns out I had made a bit of a blunder when reading through the bonus rules.

    In the terms and conditions on their website, they have a set of bonus terms near the very bottom of the page. This includes all the information you'd expect; wagering requirements, country restrictions, etc. I was specifically set out to look for any rules regarding how much certain games contribute to the WR, and something to the tune of that I did find. This is from clause 4 of their bonus rules:

    Now, I made two mistakes when I read this clause initially. #1 is that I didn't see the game "300 Shields" listed, which I was intending to play. But even if I had seen it: #2 is that the wording in this clause gave me the idea that playing these slots with bonus funds wasn't explicitly disallowed; the catch was just that these bets wouldn't count towards the wagering requirements. Clearly stating that "wagering is possible on these groups" when in reality wagering funds on the games in Group B is not actually allowed didn't exactly make things clear for me, either. Then there's the fact that a lot of these games seem to exclusively be on this list for no reason other than to trip up players (is there any legitimate reason why Thunderstruck is on here but Immortal Romance isn't, for example?), but that's just my opinion. The real kicker is a clause that can be found further down in the bonus terms, namely 12. b. x.:

    That's... very different from the clause which simply says that these games don't contribute to the wagering requirements. When I look at a casino's bonus rules, I don't really think to look for two clauses regarding restricted/non-WR-contributing games. This could and should be clarified in the same clause. Some casinos are thankfully more lax when it comes to problems caused by this, choosing to maybe confiscate winnings earned from just the specific restricted slot, or add some more wagering requirements to the total winnings, as opposed to just confiscating everything. But this situation goes further than that. Let me explain.

    The restricted game that I played on was 300 Shields. The customer support rep I spoke with insists that my winnings on this slot were significant (even though my starting balance was €150 and I think I exited the game with a balance of around €200), and that it was thanks to these winnings that I could build my balance to what it ended up being after the WR was met. You must register/login in order to see the link.. I screenshot pretty much any win worth capturing. I'd argue that my bets on 300 Shields hardly influenced the final outcome here. I should add that their wagering requirements are also quite ridiculous from the get-go, 60xB for casino bonuses (and remember, NetEnt/MG slots only contribute 70% towards WR!), so wagering through a bonus at this place is a pretty daunting task in itself, with the house edge being unusually large. If all this wasn't bad enough, I can't seem to access bet history or transaction history on Staybet either. There appears to be options to do this on their site, but said functionality appears to be broken. But oh boy, this situation isn't over yet.

    Naturally, in disputes like these, the original deposit is returned to the player. Which they've done in this case; there's currently €50 in my balance. But if you recall the start of this post, you'll remember that I deposited and wagered through a bonus a few months back as well. This was done fair and square, the money was fully withdrawable, but according to the support rep, these funds (nor the original deposit that I used to claim this first bonus) will be returned to me. I don't know if there's some form of miscommunication going on here, but if this is the actual decision, then that's objectively unfair.

    So now I'm kind of at a point where talking to the support rep won't get me anywhere, their rep on here seems unlikely to respond, and I've used my one free shot at a PAB already (although it was for an accredited casino, but that still counts towards the one free shot rule I think). I'd really like to have some thoughts and opinions on what to do next, or if pursuing a solution to my situation here even seems like a sensible idea. Sorry if the whole story seems a bit long-winded, but I wanted to be sure to include all the details about the issue here. It's the first time I've had a large sum like this confiscated, so naturally the whole situation has me pretty frustrated.

    tl;dr: Claimed a bonus months back, wagered through it, didn't fully withdraw it, did so recently to claim a new bonus, unintentionally broke a vaguely-worded rule while playing with the new bonus, all winnings from new bonus + old bonus were confiscated.
     
  2. Oct 10, 2017
  3. sueyh

    sueyh Senior Member

    Occupation:
    home maker
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I think one free PAB rule is regarding to non-accredited casino. If you never filed for PAB with a non-accredited casino in the past, I think you can file one.

    Though I'm not sure you will get your winning back from your second deposit, but surely you should get your winning back from your first deposit.

    Wait for the rep's response for a few days, if there is non or you are not happy with the answer I think you can apply for PAB.

    By the way, the casino needs to do something more if they want to have a reputation as a good casino. It is understandable that they have a few games restricted with bonus, but if that's the case, they can stop the player from playing that games by having a system that shows the message to say the player cannot play the game with the bonus when the player click the game, instead of waiting until the player asks for withdrawal to say you played the game you should not play.
     
  4. Oct 10, 2017
  5. DreamRJ

    DreamRJ Out of this world! MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Gamble
    Location:
    RJVille UK
    Yes this is a tricky one, I would def file a PAB seeming it is an unaccredited casino you should be ok to do one.

    I mean it seems a little harsh what they have done. If anything they should return your original balance as well the balance u had before you made that deposit. I take it you cancelled the first withdraw after u met the wager on the second deposit bonus when u had the 2770 balance? so you just added the existing one to the first one?

    So to be fair they have no right taking that first balance from you. So yes you need to file for a PAB.

    Also I would think what also would be fair would be if they actually reinstated your full balance with an updated wager. Because at the end of the day. If their system didn't even remind you that you are playing a slot which doesn't count towards your wagering then they are at fault. Also the fact that the wager still went down when you was playing a slot that they stated didn't count is further evidence that they do not care that they do not have a system that stops you from playing a slot that is not allowed for wagering. Accredited casinos have systems that let you know when you play a slot that doesn't count. And that doesn't affect you if you then do meet wager and withdraw.

    Just shows that there is a lot of dodgy casinos out there that just do not have the correct systems in place to aid players so they don't fall victim to these type of situations. And those said casinos that don't do so knowing they will just confiscate the winnings.

    So def for sure PAB PAB PAB and goodluck. And make sure not to post any update until after your PAB has been completed. I see you have done a PAB before anyway. So you know the rules :)
     
  6. Oct 10, 2017
  7. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    staybet (dot) com is operated by Stay Gaming Group N.V. a company registered in Curacao having company registration number 139133 and its registered address Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg Z/N UTS Gebouw Curacao. License is regulated by the Government of Curacao under license no: 1668/JAZ

    Not recommended - ThePogg (The single bet violation was clearly a mistake and was used in an opportunistic fashion by the operator to avoid paying. We view this to be predatory behaviour.)
    Official Warning - AG (due to the fact they are currently holding a massive amount of unresolved complaints from players reporting unjustified confiscation of winnings, extremely delayed or totally denied payments, various stalling tactics and denial of cooperation and players support.)

    I would be totally surprised if they would pay your winnings. Casinos like StayBet will search like hawks for the smallest, tiniest violation of their T&C's which are by the way purposely written to confuse players. You have to be really, really and i mean totally bad to have AG issuing an official warning.

    They will stick to their argumentation that you have not read the complete T&C's and broke the rules by playing 300Shields.

    Of course, I hope I am wrong but my experience tells me that I am rather not.
     
  8. Oct 10, 2017
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    @ McMaNGOS: I'll happily process your PAB as soon as you submit it. Please note that this would normally NOT be the case -- see the "One Free Shot" Rule for details -- but I have particular interest in Staybet cases these days and will waive the rules for you.
     
  10. Oct 10, 2017
  11. McMaNGOS

    McMaNGOS #1 Great Blue Shill PABnononaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Automation Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    You're a godsend, Max :notworthy

    I'll submit the PAB asap!
     
  12. Oct 10, 2017
  13. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Bunch of crooks is all i am smelling here...Go get 'em! And your dosh of course:p
    Top lad Max, very nice gesture...:thumbsup:
     
  14. Oct 11, 2017
  15. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FYI: PAB received, processed and submitted.
     
  16. Oct 30, 2017
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
  18. Feb 12, 2018
  19. Janette barker

    Janette barker Newbie member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Customer service
    Location:
    Manchester
    Staybet is a rogue casino they have send me lots of advertisement and marketed their self as a uk licensed casino however the didn’t and don’t have it. They allow me to deposit even thought the did not have a license issue by the UK Gambling Commission. They will ignore ridiculised you. According to an oficial document issue by the gambling commission they have transacted illegally by allowing a UK player to deposit.
     
    Mouche12 likes this.
  20. Feb 12, 2018
  21. DreamRJ

    DreamRJ Out of this world! MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Gamble
    Location:
    RJVille UK
    For your information Janette, There is actually a lot of casinos that still operate in the UK that do not have a UKGC license. Although some might be trustworthy. There is some that are not and cant be trusted. Yes they might be breaking UK laws by operating here! But you should always just check out the accredited section and only deposit and play in those listed in the section on CM :)
     
  22. Feb 12, 2018
  23. Janette barker

    Janette barker Newbie member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Customer service
    Location:
    Manchester
    They sent 100 of email and told me that they were licensed I have asked them before depositing! They are the worst of the worst
     
  24. Feb 13, 2018
  25. Supababe

    Supababe Opinions Meister! MM

    Occupation:
    Mum, wife, daughter, pet owner and Primary Teacher
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
    They got me too Janette for going over the max wagering allowed per spin even though it was way after I had met bonus requirements and had ‘bonus funds’ converted to real cash.
    They confiscated the lot. Nothing I could do but cry.
    So now my mission in life is to scupper their attempts to grow wherever I can.

    Incidentally, @max might find this interesting too....
    They have amended their terms and conditions at least 3 times in 2017 but at the bottom it says date if issue 14.12.2016

    The changes can be seen in the archives at web.archive.org
     
  26. Feb 13, 2018
  27. Supababe

    Supababe Opinions Meister! MM

    Occupation:
    Mum, wife, daughter, pet owner and Primary Teacher
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
    Also worth noting, staybet are keenly promoting via email
    a different casino with a UK license but (for me) the terms seem very predatory....and the sites almost identical so approach with caution:
    Slotsmoon
     
  28. Feb 13, 2018
  29. Janette barker

    Janette barker Newbie member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Customer service
    Location:
    Manchester
    They thing they can get away with murder one of advisors told me that I am saying a bunch of none sense . They have the audacity to block my emails and when I send them the email say that the recipient have blocked me. For anyone who is reading this thread stay away from them please !
     

    Attached Files:

  30. Feb 13, 2018
  31. Janette barker

    Janette barker Newbie member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Customer service
    Location:
    Manchester
    I gamble quite a lot now and I have to say that Staybet is the worst of the worst. They will transact illegally with UK players with out having a UKGC issue by the gambling commision they will send you lots of advertisement and when you approach them as first they will lie to you by say that they take English players.
    After they have onto money from you. They will totally ignore and treat you like a piece of .....
    They really are the worst casino ever
     
    Supababe likes this.
  32. Feb 13, 2018
  33. DreamRJ

    DreamRJ Out of this world! MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Gamble
    Location:
    RJVille UK
    There is no need to make this thread Janette. You have already posted in the other staybet thread So I will report this post. So they can either merge it or delete it!
     
  34. Feb 13, 2018
  35. Janette barker

    Janette barker Newbie member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Customer service
    Location:
    Manchester
    Yes no problem. I am just livid that they treat people like a piece of .....
     
  36. Feb 13, 2018
  37. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    That's no justification for ignoring our Posting Rules. Threads will be merged. Please don't do it again.
     
  38. Feb 18, 2018
  39. casinokoenig

    casinokoenig Experienced Member PABnononaccred3 PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    working for the NSA
    Location:
    neverland
    first they were stalling my payments of total 3000 € and after i bet 5 € in sportsbook (i lost that bet btw.) they deleted my pending withdrawal of 1990 € and around 1k € i had in my account at that moment - reason: its not allowed to use casino funds in sports (those funds were NOT bound to any bonuses and were basically allready mine..)

    STAY AWAY FROM STAYBET!
     
    Supababe likes this.

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