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Self Exclusion - CM Accredited Casino

Discussion in 'Quit Gambling' started by funex, Dec 2, 2013.

    Dec 2, 2013
  1. funex

    funex Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT Administrator
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi everyone,
    Last year I decided to have a break from gambling as I felt that it was getting out of control.
    I had an account with almost every Casinomeister accredited casino, so I started following the list and asking for a self exclusion period from 2 to 5 years, all of them complied without any major complications.

    This afternoon, I lost the battle to the gambling "illness" and decided to play again.

    I contacted several casinos asking if my self exclusion period was due, and if they could re-open the account.

    32Red, bet10, luckynugget, crazyvegas were quite professional and strict, they informed me that I would only be allowed play once the self exclusion period was due.
    However, there was one casino that I won't say the name for now, which reopened my account within a blink of an eye, although I had requested in 2012 for a 5 year self exclusion period. (once I started the chat, in 2 mns I was playing again)

    So it happens that I had one of my worst sessions ever and lost a few K's. I feel like punching someone in the throat, mainly myself.

    The reason why I'm posting this is to ask you if it is from common knowledge, for a Casinomeister accredited casino to be so careless and not follow strict procedures regarding responsible gaming towards their players?
    Should I have been allowed to reopen my account, whilst it was obvious to the agent that I have had gambling issues?

    I only have to blame myself, but I feel that the casino should also be held responsible.

    Any opinions about this type of issue, has it been widely discussed before?

    Cheers,
    (Sorry for my English)
     
  2. Dec 2, 2013
  3. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    When you closed your account, were you clear that the self-exclusion you requested was due to gambling problems?

    I'd start with contacting the rep here for the casino.

    Go and read that casino's terms for exclusion periods too. Did they breach them in any way? Some may say min 6 months, or some request a 3 day or 7 day cooling off period before they will re-open an account.

    Don't name names for now. If the rep doesn't handle it to your satisfaction, you can try the PAB service.

    Try not to beat yourself up too badly, slips are part of addiction recovery for most people. And while you may have lost a few K the other night, you probably would have lost a lot more had you not gambled for so long.

    I'd wish you luck, but somehow it seems inappropriate, so I will just wish you all the best.
     
    11 people like this.
  4. Dec 2, 2013
  5. funex

    funex Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT Administrator
    Location:
    Portugal
    Thank your for your reply jasminebed.

    I requested in 2012 for a 5 year self exclusion period.

    I have checked the T&C and it stands:

    "21.2 You may at any time request that Your Account be closed for the reason of problem gambling. The account will be closed without hesitation and will remain closed forever. Should we deem it unwise or unhealthy for any account to be reopened, then it will be closed forever at the sole discretion of Broadway Gaming Ltd."

    Not much more than this is stated in their T&C.

    I will contact the rep as you advised, thank you.
    I'll post any updates
     
  6. Dec 2, 2013
  7. mattsgame

    mattsgame Casinomeister Advisory Group CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town
    You gave away which casino/s these were when you posted that term :/ Broadway Gaming LTD have Butlers Bingo & Glossy Bingo.

    If you requested that your exclusion was for 5 years then they definitely should not have re opened it under any circumstances just like those you mentioned that would not honour your request.

    This does not mean you are entitled to your money back as you are an adult but the casino really should not have let you re open your account in the first place.

    Ian?

    Cheers
    Matt
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    7 people like this.
  8. Dec 2, 2013
  9. Realitybitez

    Realitybitez Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Cati Interviewer
    Location:
    New Zealand
    have to agree with Matt. The casino is wrong in the fact they let you play. In saying that, you cant really expect them to give you your $ back can you? You approached them, they didn't approach you. And its not like casino's hold guns to our heads and force us to put our $ in, we are all gamblers and know exactly what we are doing:oops:

    In saying all that, maybe your'll get a goodwill bonus chip or something? ;)
     
    3 people like this.
  10. Dec 2, 2013
  11. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Let's wait to hear the full story from Ian first.

    One thing is for sure.....the player is 100% responsible for 100% of their losses. A player that cannot accept that will always be an active compulsive gambler and end up repeating the cycle over and over.

    Let's face it...they could have gone to any non-accredited casino, blown the lot, and had absolutely no recourse. I sincerely hope that the reason the OP chose to target accredited casinos was not to freeroll them. I've seen it done.
     
    6 people like this.
  12. Dec 2, 2013
  13. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    "Mainly" yourself? It should be exclusively yourself. If I ask to be self-excluded from a B&M casino and somehow manage to sneak in for whatever reason (even staff incompetence), I'm 100% responsible for what happens next. Now if they would send promotions and free chips, it would be very unethical but that's not the case here: you clearly tried to cheat and succeeded.

    Self-exclusion is literally asking others to protect you against yourself. It's not a right, it's a service.
     
    4 people like this.
  14. Dec 2, 2013
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    This is unfortunate. There are strict rules concerning SE and 32red etc. followed them to the letter, as they should. Ultimately the OP is responsible, but the UKGC I believe has a section on this whereby if you (SE player) open another account and it sneaks past checks, it should be neutralized, and no winnings paid and deposits refunded. Now as Nifty says, this can be an invitation to some to play for nothing but then again the player would not have got any winnings either. In this case though, it wasn't a duplicate account but a request to reopen an existing SE account. I read an account a couple of years ago on a GA thread whereby a SE player rang Ladbrokes up, persuaded CS to let him play and lost 5k. He was refunded after complaining, a few weeks later because Ladbrokes deemed the CS to be in breach of responsible gaming rules. I doubt he would have been as lucky if this was an offshore operation and not a big UK name.
    Now, for the benefit of VWM, there are a couple of legal precedents on this one; a case a couple of years ago in the UK press had an addicted greyhound owner who lost hundreds of thousands AFTER excluding from High Street premises lose a case against Will Hill (AFAICR) but I can't recall the exact words of the judgement, but the summation mentioned the gambler had made every effort to dodge the SE and Will Hill would have had to go beyond what is reasonably expected of them to stop him.
    The OP clearly had a severe urge to gamble and made every effort to do so, but IMO the CS should NOT have allowed under any circumstances him to play unless his SE period had expired. That is the whole point of the SE facility, which failed here.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Dec 2, 2013
  17. thebigs

    thebigs Senior Member

    Occupation:
    part time argos slave lol
    Location:
    roscommon ireland
    self exclusion

    Having worked in the Bookmakers industry for many many years i did come across punters asking for self exclusion every day of the week.
    Yes it was hard to control due to having more than one shop as unless staff at other shops were eagle eyed then the person who asked for it could easily bet in the other shops.
    Yes i did hear stories about punters trying to take court action as they said they should never be allowed to bet elswhere.
    However with the casino this should be straightforward.The casino should keep to their policy.As for opening accounts elswhere then yes its up to the individual to control the addiction.As hard as that may be i do feel sorry for people who need help and there are people out there willing to help.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Dec 2, 2013
  19. funex

    funex Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT Administrator
    Location:
    Portugal
    Firstly, let me say I'm sorry to have referred the casino by mistake, while pasting the terms and conditions, it wasn't my intention.
    ---

    I'm aware that I'm responsible for my losses, I'm also aware that I have a gambling issue and the main reason I only play accredited casinos from Casinomeister is to somewhat protect myself from even more harm.

    My intentions when I started this thread were not to have a free ride, I was just feeling really frustrated, depressed and angry with myself and the casino, as I felt that these type of situations were for granted to be safe and I would be protected.

    However, I do feel that the casino should consider the refund of the deposits as one of the measurements to fix this situation, as also reviewing their T&C and pass the role of responsible gaming/account review to a security department, instead of a regular livechat agent, within a matter of seconds.

    quoting dunover (and I thank you for your useful information about the T&C):
    Thank you guys for participating on this thread
     
  20. Dec 2, 2013
  21. IanO

    IanO Regular Human

    Occupation:
    Marketing and promotions
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Good morning all.

    It's another busy morning here at Butlers HQ but just wanted to pop in and let you know I'm aware of this case and looking in to it from my end. I shall reply to the OP's PM as soon as I have more information.

    Thanks

    Ian
     
    16 people like this.
  22. Dec 2, 2013
  23. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    With respect, part of the reason why your problem is getting the better of you is that you are not taking personal responsibility for your actions.

    You gambled, and lost.

    I am 100% sure that, if you had actually won, and the casino had denied your winnings, you would be posting here that you absolutely should be paid your winnings as you deposited and played fair and square. As I've said, I've seen it all before.

    Bottom line is that you either gambled expecting to be paid if you won, or you did not. I don't believe anyone gambles and hopes that WON'T be paid, so that means you deposited and played in good faith....in other words, you believed in good faith that you would be paid any winnings.

    You cannot have it both ways.

    If you deposits are refunded, it leaves the casino wide open to freerollers IMO.

    The best thing you can do is install gamblock, and get to your nearest Gamblers Anonymous meeting and/or gambling counsellor.
     
    13 people like this.
  24. Dec 2, 2013
  25. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Self Exclusion is something I feel strongly about.

    The UK parliament just voted down an amendment that would create a one stop shop system for self exclusion so all those licensed in the UK (which by 2014 will be pretty much all the legitimate sites) would exclude someone who asked for it with one call/request.

    The Gambling Commission consultation that runs until 4 Dec asks no questions on this. The committee looking at the bill voted down a requirement for the Commission to consult on self exclusion. My submission says they should consult and it would be great if others said the same to them (my MP has).

    We could have centralised self exclusion within a year if they got on with it - New Jersey has it for their new sites for instance.

    Please tell the UKGC that you want one stop shop self exclusion -

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Proposed changes to the LCCP is the consultation to say it under - just say they need to consult on this and you want it...deadline 4 Dec.
     
    2 people like this.
  26. Dec 2, 2013
  27. funex

    funex Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT Administrator
    Location:
    Portugal
    You do have a point Nifty29.

    But bottom line is that the casino could simply avoid both possible situations by not letting me reopen the account, the agent was aware of the fact, and here is where the breach was opened to the main problem (besides my gambling problem).

    Lets face it, every casino would love not having to follow these rules and we all know why.

    You said that in case the casino refunds, it leaves them wide open to free rides.
    In my opinion that is not true, just simply don't let players reopen their account before their self exclusion period is due. Period. If they simply keep to this rule, there's no chance for free rides, it's fairly simple to apply it.

    Anyhow, putting the refund issue aside, I would like to know at least which actions will be taken to fix this situation and keep their good reputation and image.

    EDIT:
    Googling for gamblock, didn't know about it, thanks
     
  28. Dec 2, 2013
  29. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    @ the OP - I notice that you posted a month ago that you were playing at Redbet. If you've got a gambling problem and you're serious about not playing, you should really self exclude yourself from ALL casinos and not just some of them.

    Also in case you didn't know, any software like Gamblock will block you from visiting websites with any casino related content, including casinomeister.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    5 people like this.
  30. Dec 2, 2013
  31. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    The difference between land-based casinos and bookies SE and online SE is that it's hard to administer land based SE where the operator has hundreds of premises. They would literally have to ask ID from every person coming through the door, and compare it against a SE'd database, Unworkable. In the online area though, this is EXACTLY what they can do and actually do. This is why I think to a certain extent the site you played breached their responsibilities to their LGA by letting you play again, just as you breached your responsibility to yourself by attempting to play again. The thing is, you played to win, and would therefore expect the winnings had you won. Nevertheless, the CS agent who allowed you to play needs a boot up their backside.
     
    2 people like this.
  32. Dec 2, 2013
  33. funex

    funex Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT Administrator
    Location:
    Portugal
    Yes I have, I wasn't registered with them before and I noticed that they were strong in the Scandinavian market, where I'm living now, but the experience only lasted a few days, I am also self excluded at redbet.

    EDIT:
    yep, I saw that gamblock is paid, I'm currently checking the different versions, but I'll wait until this matter is cleared as I didn't know that casinomeister would be blocked too, thank you for the info
     
  34. Dec 2, 2013
  35. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    There are a couple others you could check as well, one is called Betfilter, and another called ProblemPoker (just add .com for their websites) Betfilter even has an 8 day free trial so you can see how it works. But don't install it til you're ready because it will block casinomeister as well. At least it should. ProblemPoker has a monthly subscription plan, which may be better for someone who only wants to take a short break.

    The problem with this kind of software is that if you have access to more than one computer, you need to buy it for all of them. But if that's what it takes...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  36. Dec 2, 2013
  37. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Butler's Bingo's terms state that if you have a gambling problem, your account will be closed permanently and not reopened.

    The OP's opening post says he asked for a five year exclusion, which would lead me to believe the reason for the account self-exclusion was not made clear. If when making his request for self-exclusion he did not state it was due to a gambling problem or addiction, he should not be entitled to any sort of refund or compensation. If he did state is was for gambling addiction, then losses should be refunded IMO.

    Based upon what happened in this thread http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...19-winnings-confiscated-deposit-refunded.html, Butler's would have confiscated winnings if the self-exclusion was for problem gambling.

    This case will depend on how and why the OP asked for the exclusion in the first place.

    I do think going forward the casino should look at how they re-open accounts. I suggest at minimum it needs to be done via email and require a three day cooling off period before the account is re-opened.
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Dec 2, 2013
  39. funex

    funex Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    IT Administrator
    Location:
    Portugal
    Jasminebed, thank you for pointing out that thread.

    Let me quote IanO:

     

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