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Resolved Winnings confiscated, deposit refunded.

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Copperpot, May 28, 2012.

    May 28, 2012
  1. Copperpot

    Copperpot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambler
    Location:
    London
    Hello,

    I recently made a thread saying about my gambling problem, since then I decided to deposit at another casino (I know..) to which I won and decided this would be my last ever one (Long story short, stopped gambling around '09. A few weeks back I had a couple of relapses, luckily I no longer get the 'empty my bank account' urge and it's a couple of deposits. Obviously I chased this one and managed to win my losses back and then some)


    I registered on or around 23/05/2012 and made a withdrawal a few days later. *The withdrawal was in the pending state for a couple of days and today I was told my account has been blocked due to being on a negative database that their payment provider runs on, and as a result my winnings are cancelled and my deposit will be returned in 'due-course'

    Now my first deposit to this casino was on 23/05/2012 according to my statements and several small one's thereafter so I cannot understand why I was stopped from signing up, and making a number of deposits? Only when I make a withdrawal am I told that I'm on a negative database.

    Do you think I'd have been refunded had I lost? Why did it take this long? And most importantly, would this have only came to light when making a withdrawal? If so then I have my answer and tis all resolved, but given that it was flushed and waiting for over a day I'm not sure they couldn't have found out sooner.

    Thanks
     
  2. May 28, 2012
  3. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    Maybe their payment provider doesn't look at your account unless it needs to umm.... Pay something?
     
  4. May 28, 2012
  5. Copperpot

    Copperpot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambler
    Location:
    London
    Good thing I made a withdrawal then. For some reason I kept thinking the 'provider' was what dealt with deposits to the casino.

    I guess this is all resolved now.
     
  6. May 28, 2012
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Thing is, these checks are done after a withdrawal is made. It's not viable to do it beforehand, or when you signup, for reasons that have been outlined many times before.

    When it comes to negative databases, it will be related to chargebacks most likely. Did you make any? Otherwise it might be an exclusion issue.

    It's a good reason to quit again.
     
  8. May 28, 2012
  9. Copperpot

    Copperpot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambler
    Location:
    London
    They told me it was due to a self-exclusion, I'm guessing the recent casino I played at.

    The only reason I asked was because I wasn't sure if they were 'having me on' as I had made a few deposits over the course of a week, but now I know the payment provider deals with withdrawals it all makes sense.

    And it is a very good reason to quit again, if I did decide to have another gamble, this would make me think twice.
     
    3 people like this.
  10. May 30, 2012
  11. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Hi this is why some casino groups do have blocked lists. Although it is questionable that they were ok to take your deposits and only spotted this when it came to withdraw. Either way in the long run its good for you if you really want to quit gambling as you are wide open to not being paid even if you do win. A great block to have in place for anyone fighting to quit online gambling.

    I know myself even if I was desperate to deposit it would be pointless as im barred almost everywhere ha ha and even if a deposit did get through and I won the risk is not being paid. So whats the point in gambling in the first place ect. Anyone who is serious about needing/wanting to quit gambling due to it being a problem has to put in place as many blocks and stoppers as possible between themselves and the casinos. It can make all the difference. Good luck with it all :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. May 30, 2012
  13. Copperpot

    Copperpot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambler
    Location:
    London
    The payment processor I seem to be blocked from is 'Datacash' which from memory is what a lot of the casinos use. Which is good news for me and I'm sure they could probably be contacted directly to implement some type of block?

    And any time I deposit the first worry is getting paid so now that's just multiplied and I've made a list of all the accredited casinos and I'm going to send a bulk email with my name and details. Which should further be another reason not to play anywhere.

    The casino in question was Butlersbingo. They've contacted me to tell me that the 'block' at the other casino didn't take place until after I made my deposits, so they're looking into whether or not they can pay my winnings. They've been very helpful and remind me of 3dice i.e non-robotic reps.:thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. May 30, 2012
  15. IanO

    IanO Regular Human

    Occupation:
    Marketing and promotions
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Hi Everyone,

    As the OP has pointed out the site in question was Butlers Bingo, and I've been in touch with him via PM to explain the situation.

    Just to clarify for the rest of you, it would appear he made his deposits with us, then subsequently requested self exclusion at another site who use the same processor as us. His financial accounts were all immediately blocked as he was added to their database of excluded gamblers. This meant he was also blocked from making any further deposits with us.

    Once the account with us was discovered it too was closed, but that did not happen until a couple of days later by which time he had already wagered and requested a withdrawal of his winnings. It was not actually the withdrawal request that triggered anything.

    I hope that clears things up, and am glad this had been a further discouragement to the OP from a return to online gambling.

    Ian
     
    7 people like this.
  16. Jun 7, 2012
  17. Copperpot

    Copperpot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambler
    Location:
    London
    Update:

    Butlersbingo sent me the winning funds, which is great. Really helpful and where it feels like other casinos wouldn't have looked into it and just not paid, Butler's took the correct route and came back with a verdict, regardless whether or not it was to keep the winnings. All proper.:thumbsup:
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Jun 7, 2012
  19. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    I am not sure whether they should have paid you. If you played and won before you self-excluded yourself at another casino then I tend to agree you should get paid. Otherwise, it may seem it could be a case of self-exclusion then play and if you lost you get your deposit refunded. I am not saying this is the case but the casino has to safeguard its own interests and yours as well. So though the casino has paid up I would dearly love to know whether this player made his bets before or after self-exclusion at another casino.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jun 7, 2012
  21. IanO

    IanO Regular Human

    Occupation:
    Marketing and promotions
    Location:
    Ireland.
    That's exactly what happened Chu, otherwise he would not have been paid. The last thing we want to do is encourage someone with a gambling problem, but we also didn't want to hide behind that as an excuse not to pay legitimate winnings. Had he been abe to deposit and play after his exclusion request this all would have ended differently. I explained this to the OP straight away, and the only reason this dragged on for a bit was we had to double check the exact timings of everything and make sure we were doing the right thing.

    Cooperpot, I'm glad you're satisfied with the resolution, but as I said in my PM and as you rightly pointed out yourself other operators may have taken a different line, and you should take this as a warning to stick to your convictions to stay away from online gaming. Best of luck.

    IanO
     
    5 people like this.
  22. Jun 7, 2012
  23. raj

    raj Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bingo Product Manager and in-running trader.
    Location:
    LONDON
    It's great that this customer got paid, and I had no doubts that Ian O would look at the situation and reach a just and sensible decision, as Butlers are a good, fair and genuine operation.

    What still would seem unclear though is when you self exclude from an operator, what are you self excluding from? Is it solely from the company your are dealing with? Is it from anyone who uses the same payment processor? Is it from any other casino who happens to discover you are excluded somewhere else? Is it from anyone that uses the same software provider?

    How are self exlcusion details shared within the industry and is this clear to the customer?

    If operators are choosing to with hold winnings from excluded customers then I cannot see that they have any option than to return stakes of losing self excluded customers whose wagers are accepted in error. Any customer who is not eligable to receive winnings cannot possibly be expected to incur losses.

    Unless the exclusion rules are made clear and uniform by all, then more disputes like this are likely to happen and not all will have such a happy ending.

    Raj
     
    3 people like this.
  24. Jun 7, 2012
  25. IanO

    IanO Regular Human

    Occupation:
    Marketing and promotions
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Hi Raj,

    Thanks for the compliment (your bribe is in the post :thumbsup:;)) . To answer your question, in this particular case the common thread was our payment processor. They look after the financial transactions for a few (otherwise unconnected) websites. If a player reports a problem with gambling, this gets relayed by the casino to the processor who make a note of it. If the same player then tries to open accounts at any other gaming sites the processor works with then they find their deposits blocked and their account soon closed.

    IanO
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 7, 2012
  27. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Actually this brings self-exclusion to a higher level and offers more protection to the player than merely getting blocked at a casino the player requested self-exclusion for. This could, in a way, plug the hole for some players who ,for some reason such as forgetfulness, did not apply for self-exclusion across the board.
     
  28. Jun 7, 2012
  29. raj

    raj Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bingo Product Manager and in-running trader.
    Location:
    LONDON
    This is the problem part, if an initial deposit is accepted and the customer does wager, should all play be voided win or lose? Is the customer entitled to a refund of any losing play accepted in error?

    My own (personal) view remains that any play that happens prior to the self exclusion coming to the attention of a casino must stand, win or lose.

    Raj
     
  30. Jun 7, 2012
  31. IanO

    IanO Regular Human

    Occupation:
    Marketing and promotions
    Location:
    Ireland.
    Yup, that would be my personal view too, and The Butler agrees with me. Anything you do up until you request self exclusion for a gambling problem should stand, but any transactions after that should be voided, win or lose.
     
  32. Jun 7, 2012
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Given the opaque nature of how self exclusion works, this is the fairest policy. It also removes the argument that losing deposits should be refunded on the grounds that no winnings would ever have been paid as the withdrawal would have triggered the checks that found out that the player was blocked.

    Players are not always clear what they are asking for, and may in fact only want to self exclude from a site where they seem unable to get a "fair game", but play elsewhere with a different software. Since their registration and deposits are accepted, they are unaware that there is any issue in them getting paid, and they may lose a considerable amount before finding out they could never win.

    If there was an argument, the casino could use this policy statement (with proof) to argue that since they would have paid any winnings that ocurred prior to the self exclusion being discovered, they should not be liable to refund losses made prior to this.

    The OP could use these winnings to get some software that will help him in future moments of weakness, thus adding yet another obstacle to him signing up and playing elsewhere. Even this processor block will only cover a fraction of the thousands of sites available. A spam filter upgrade may also help so that emails offering incentives to join casinos do not turn up in the inbox.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 10, 2012
  35. Copperpot

    Copperpot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambler
    Location:
    London
    I wasn't even aware that you could be blacklisted on the payment processor side of things. This wasn't the first time I'd been self excluded from a casino but never from the payment processor. They even said I was welcome back at any time which makes me think they didn't know about the above.

    Thanks to Butlersbingo and the comments in this thread. My 'defense' is very strong this time round, being blacklisted from a popular payment processor leaves me with very few accredited casinos, plus I have around 40 casinos to email and give my details which further reinforces my urges not to gamble. Not only that but I don't even want to gamble and this was a relapse, 2 years ago I was gambling everyday with money I couldn't afford to lose. Nowadays it was one gamble here and there, but nothing to the above extent.

    Just to add, I did email Kahnawake, they want me to send in some ID and they'll stick me on a blacklist. Which casinos use this company as I couldn't find any info?


    Thanks Ian. Hopefully people will see this thread and try out your casino as I know trust plays a big part in where people play, this should clear that up though.
    And your slots run super smooth, usually the bingo/casino sites have very dodgy/low quality slots. Yours were like playing on the dedicated MG software.

    And as I previously said, I was annoyed at first as I didn't really understand why the deposit was accepted, but when you cleared it up I would have been fine with either of the winnings or refund as the intentions were genuine.


    Copperpot
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. May 28, 2013
  37. msblast

    msblast Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas PABnononaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    work on cemetery
    Location:
    germany-netherlands-border

    you lucky one,

    butlersbingo confiscate my winnings of 300€ and with alot PMs and emails give my deposited money back

    the reason is an 4years old idiotic cheap unfair negative database entry from datacash, after that ihave many vip statusses over neteller and skrill

    my account on butlersbingo is 7months old and they closed my account after ipush the withdrawal button

    @ian nice to hear that you pay other members their winnings with an negative entry

    you say you are fair?


    @players make your own decision, iknow alot of really fair casinos
    and ifeel butlersbingo is NOT fair

    there are a couple of reason ican tell you
    why? they want you to wager the seperate bingo bonus in the casino before withdrawal (in the terms is written cash balance is always withdrawable, and iuse no casino bonus, only an unused bingo bonus wich idont want because iam not a bingo player)

    and the cash balance is NOT withdrawable instead written in the terms, if you have a seperate automatic bingo bonus received (wich is seperate)

    and livechat told- trhere is no problem with a withdrawal, the bingo bonus will removed

    (but dont tell you that the bingo bonus have to wager in the casino too even if you dont want it)

    poor support, it was very hard and lot of days and mails to get my deposit back no solution was offered me

    and on the top of that, ireferred for butlersbingo alot of players last year and invest alot of time, decieded to play myself a little and get kicked out like an bonuswhore

    you cant handle players like that

    very unprofessional and unfair!!!!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  38. May 28, 2013
  39. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    It has got nothing to do with luck.
    As what I understood. The reason player got payed, was because he/she selfexcluded (entering to negative list) after making the wagers. If he/she would have selfexcluded before making the wagers he/she would not have been paid (as in your case. Beeing in the negative list before making wagers).
     
    2 people like this.

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