RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

[Pirateofc21]

Not that I doubt your veracity. But it's 4:30 PM on Friday here in California and I've checked all my mail boxes and there's nothing in any of those mailboxes that could be remotely construed as having coming from you.

Lastly, I'm more than willing to make the connection for you but it has't to be with the understanding that you've made your last post on any forum incident to this matter. The attorney that I'll put you in contact with is nothing short of a HEAT LITIGATOR, he does not play games and he does run the show.

Email me if you like, but make sure you understand full well what I'm saying here. Have a good one.

Cipher

I just e-mailed you again. Thanks.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

1. Hampton is part of that small %, no?

2.As tactless as that might have been it does not make me a cheater.

3.I have paid dearly for that mistake.

4.What else can I do?

1. I doubt Hampton is part of that small %. I doubt that any RTG casino is. 1.3 million is a big win for many land based casinos, let alone an online casino.

2. I agree, but you won big, and at online casinos that's enough. Look it doesn't matter if you cheated or not. You crossed the casino's pain threshold, it's just that simple. Then you rubbed the casino's face in it.

3. Yes, you have paid, and you will pay more. You will never receive the full amount of your win. It's too big and they simply won't pay it.

4. The best thing you could have done and may still be able to do is to negotiate a settlement, learn from your mistake and move on.

Look, Im not trying to give you a hard time. Im just trying to convey the realities of the online casino business. Its a downright nasty business. The rules of polite society just dont apply. The casino holds the purse string and there is nothing, I repeat nothing, to stop them from not paying. You can cry, shout, kick and scream about the injustice of it all, but it will do no good. Youre knee deep in the Twilight Zone my friend, and you are just now starting to realize it.

Its not fair, but it is the reality.

 

[Pirateofc21]

1. I doubt Hampton is part of that small %. I doubt that any RTG casino is. 1.3 million is a big win for many land based casinos, let alone an online casino.

2. I agree, but you won big, and at online casinos that's enough. Look it doesn't matter if you cheated or not. You crossed the casino's pain threshold, it's just that simple. Then you rubbed the casino's face in it.

3. Yes, you have paid, and you will pay more. You will never receive the full amount of your win. It's too big and they simply won't pay it.

4. The best thing you could have done and may still be able to do is to negotiate a settlement, learn from your mistake and move on.

Look, Im not trying to give you a hard time. Im just trying to convey the realities of the online casino business. Its a downright nasty business. The rules of polite society just dont apply. The casino holds the purse string and there is nothing, I repeat nothing, to stop them from not paying. You can cry, shout, kick and scream about the injustice of it all, but it will do no good. Youre knee deep in the Twilight Zone my friend, and you are just now starting to realize it.

Its not fair, but it is the reality.

Negotiate with who?

 

[gamblinboi]

Negotiate with who?

crikey yer getting to be mighty stupid pirate. why don't you shutup already and take cipher's (and everyone elses) words of advice. Contact the litigator and SHUT UP already. This is for your OWN good..!!

 

[cipher]

I just e-mailed you again. Thanks.

Well it's now 7:45AM (PST) on Saturday and still no email from the "PIRATE".

Given the fact that your posts are consistently running (3) hours ahead of mine I'm going to make the huge assumption that you're probably located somewhere on the East Coast.

I've received email from as far away as Toronto, Chicago, New York, New Jersey and even Singapore but still nothing from the "PIRATE". Why do you suppose that is "PIRATE"?

I'm sorry PIRATE, there's no doubt in my mind that you need help and I really hope you get help, but I don't play these kind of games. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Pirateofc21]

Well it's now 7:45AM (PST) on Saturday and still no email from the "PIRATE".

Given the fact that your posts are consistently running (3) hours ahead of mine I'm going to make the huge assumption that you're probably located somewhere on the East Coast.

I've received email from as far away as Toronto, Chicago, New York, New Jersey and even Singapore but still nothing from the "PIRATE". Why do you suppose that is "PIRATE"?

I'm sorry PIRATE, there's no doubt in my mind that you need help and I really hope you get help, but I don't play these kind of games. Have a good one.

Cipher

I have been using the e-mail button in the forum. Obviously it doesn't work. I am trying to get ahold of you and I wouldn't know the button doesn't work until you say something. How else can I get in contact with you? Check your private messages.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Well it's now 7:45AM (PST) on Saturday and still no email from the "PIRATE".

Given the fact that your posts are consistently running (3) hours ahead of mine I'm going to make the huge assumption that you're probably located somewhere on the East Coast.

I've received email from as far away as Toronto, Chicago, New York, New Jersey and even Singapore but still nothing from the "PIRATE". Why do you suppose that is "PIRATE"?

I'm sorry PIRATE, there's no doubt in my mind that you need help and I really hope you get help, but I don't play these kind of games. Have a good one.

Cipher

I'm not playing games I am using the e-mail button here in the Forum. It is obviously not working. How else can I contact you? Can you consider this my request for the contact info you spoke of? Just e-mail me or send it to Bryan and he could forward it. Also check your private messages.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Not that I doubt your veracity. But it's 4:30 PM on Friday here in California and I've checked all my mail boxes and there's nothing in any of those mailboxes that could be remotely construed as having coming from you.

Lastly, I'm more than willing to make the connection for you but it has't to be with the understanding that you've made your last post on any forum incident to this matter. The attorney that I'll put you in contact with is nothing short of a HEAT LITIGATOR, he does not play games and he does run the show.

Email me if you like, but make sure you understand full well what I'm saying here. Have a good one.

Cipher

I don't know your e-mail address and the button in the forum doesn't seem to be working.

I understand full well what is required of me. Would you please e-mail me the contact info or send it to Bryan and he could forward it to me.

Thanks, PirateofC21.

 

[dominique]

Pirate - what the hell are you doing calling yourself the pirate of cb21 and then be yapping about searching for missing ports?

I'm no RTG Shill and they suck and others won decent money on the game to it seems but you sir have well and truly put your foot in it.

Wrong Fuxxing move - Jeezuz have you annoyed me - 1.3 mill and you toss it away with trash talk?

Arrgh man I will never forget you sir.

I just came back from a lengthy time abroad - and look what I found going on.

Unbelievable.

I read this whole thing from beginning to end.

Pirate, you are really an annoying person. I don't know whether you have a right to any winnings or not, I only know what I read here, which is obviously not a lot of information. Just a lot of moaning, accusations, insults, threats, complaints, whining, whimpering and bullying. You run the gambit.

You have had all kinds of well meaning people trying to help - some you have attacked as thanks, the rest you ignore.

No one can help you.

Unbelievable.

 

[Pirateofc21]

I just came back from a lengthy time abroad - and look what I found going on.

Unbelievable.

I read this whole thing from beginning to end.

Pirate, you are really an annoying person. I don't know whether you have a right to any winnings or not, I only know what I read here, which is obviously not a lot of information. Just a lot of moaning, accusations, insults, threats, complaints, whining, whimpering and bullying. You run the gambit.

You have had all kinds of well meaning people trying to help - some you have attacked as thanks, the rest you ignore.

No one can help you.

Unbelievable.

I haven't ignored anyone and nobody told me of anyone other than Bryan helping until recently. How was I supposed to know. Oh that's right, I'm Kreskin the magician. I forgot I can read peoples minds.
Youy are nuts. I haven't attacked or ignored anybody. I came to this Forum to get help and to let others know what was going on so they could avoid my mistakes, not to be everybody's kicking post. Do you know me or something that you can just insult me? I have been insulted repeatedly. Why? Is it really that funny? But if nothing else I am glad I have been so F***ing entertaining to you all.

 

[amandajm]

1.3 million is such a massive amount of money to lose out on and i am sure the pirate is more annoyed with himself than I could ever be.

I have no intention of calling the guy names.

Seriously Pirate/Brian - get some professional help onside guy that will talk for you. Do It..

 

[caruso]

Pirate - I suggest you ignore the malicious attacker - she wasn't acting with your interests at heart, quite the opposite. Don't be provoked into making things worse for yourself. There are people out there would like to see you cheated of your winnings.

I can Email you some possible contact info for Cipher - if that's OK with him, of course. Maybe your communications are somehow getting lost on the cyber highway. Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll get on it.

 

[caruso]

My guess is the Email function isn't working. Either PM Cipher your Email address directly, or PM me with it and I'll pass it on.

 

[cipher]

My guess is the Email function isn't working. Either PM Cipher your Email address directly, or PM me with it and I'll pass it on.

How are you doing CARUSO, I emailed PIRATE yesterday through the site and when I read the email that Pirate posted incident to some sort of malfunction with the email system I in-turn emailed Bryan to see if there was in fact any problems with the email system. He (Bryan) in-turn sent me back an email this morning saying that there was not a problem with the email system.

The long and short of this situation is the fact that this FIASCO is getting much too complicated when it really does not need to.

Pirate I want you to send an email to me at

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including an email address where you can be contacted. I won't be able to respond to that email this evening as I've already got a full slate but I will contact you in the AM, IF YOUR EMAIL IS THERE.

CIPHER

 

[The Dude]

My guess is the Email function isn't working. Either PM Cipher your Email address directly, or PM me with it and I'll pass it on.

It works fine. You can even test it by using it to email yourself. You need to ensure that you have the correct email address listed in your user profile, but checking Cipher's, he has listed the same email address that has been on file for some time.

So the email function works.

Now, back to this mess. I've been involved with this situation form the git-go. From when p21 began emailing me letting me know that he was making some big wins at some RTG sites -- up to now.

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with the game, and I believe it should be coming back on line soon. We have a player who has won A LOT of money, and presently has all of his accounts locked. I'm still working on trying to get answers on why these aren't opened. All but Hamptons...

The situation in a nutshell. The player emails me stating that he is winning a lot of money at Carib21, he is worried that some casinos might not payout because of past reputations. He then contacts me in a panic because the game is down, no RTG site has it. I check into it myself and concur - yes, the game has been pulled. I contact RTG wondering what's up, and yes, they had pulled the game to ensure that everything is functioning normally. They have been watching his wins and wnat to ensure that everything is on the level. This software verification goes on for about two weeks or so, meanwhile the player is emailing often -- wondering what the status is; he wants to play again.

I tell him to just chill out. If he had won this money fair and square, he would have nothing to worry about.

After a couple of weeks, I'm told the game seems to be fine. After the player asks me about - I tell him so, congratulating him, and then he starts making his first "cryptic" posts.

Just about everyone involved flips out when they read what he posted. Admit it, these posts are not normal. Why the allusions? Why not a "lucky winner" post? The game was already suspect, and now the player is.

Let's not forget the amount of money that is involved here. We have tens of thousands of dollars won at a number of casinos besides Hamptons at this point. So game is pulled and examined again.

Bear in mind, this is from what I know. I am not aware of what Hampton casino is doing at this point.

Then from the week of January 30th, we have the recorded phone conversation(s). Both the casino operator and the player recorded their phone conversations. The player admitted to the operator that he used a robot. This is cut and dry with no misunderstanding. The player admitted it, and he went into certain details on making a negotiation for the software. This conversation occured while I was at the ICE and right before he started this thread. When he apparently reneged on the agreement he began this thread, which has been the most viewed thread in the history of Casinomeister.

He now denies using a robot, and states that he was "playing" the operator. In my opinion, this has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, "playing" a casino operator when there is 1.3 million at stake. But this is water under the bridge. What was said, was said.

I have read what has been posted here. I had a slew of private emails as well. I have had copies of phone conversations forwarded to me. I have spoken to the operator and to the player over the phone, and I've talked to RTG in depth about this, and most of us all agree that this is one big mess.

I wish the player would have kept his mouth shut. He would be a much happier and richer person right now. As you can tell, the player has a personality that seems to strive for attention.

I have my gut feelings on what is going on here, but gut feelings aren't enough because of the sum(s) of money involved. In my viewpoint there is simply not enough evidence from either side to come to a fair, objective and useful
conclusion.

I suggest that both parties talk to each other off the record to arrive at a compromise with a non-disclosure agreement. This would probably be the best route to take. But I honestly feel that P21 may have burned far too many bridges for this to happen. But let us hope this is not the case. I wish him luck.

Good luck!

 

[linda7]

Bryan I am confused. Were you not the person who said ALL RTG casinos were crooked, no one should play at their sites and that you would NEVER involve yourself with RTG again? Therefore, with all due respect, why are you suddenly siding with these thieves? I am interested to know what caused you to change your opinion of this group.

Linda7

 

[dominique]

Pirate - I suggest you ignore the malicious attacker - she wasn't acting with your interests at heart, quite the opposite. Don't be provoked into making things worse for yourself. There are people out there would like to see you cheated of your winnings.

I can Email you some possible contact info for Cipher - if that's OK with him, of course. Maybe your communications are somehow getting lost on the cyber highway. Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll get on it.

I did not attack him - I called him annoying.

He attacked Bryan - right here in his own forum, for trying to mediate. That is actually a lot more than just annoying.

Just about everyone has told him to chill and be quiet and work with the people offering help. This is not happening, and he is losing more of his chance to collect with every post he makes. Pointing that out is not malicious, it does have his best interest at heart.

Encouraging him to continue to post equals encouraging him to make sure the case is lost for good.

 

[The Dude]

Bryan I am confused. Were you not the person who said ALL RTG casinos were crooked, no one should play at their sites and that you would NEVER involve yourself with RTG again? Therefore, with all due respect, why are you suddenly siding with these thieves? I am interested to know what caused you to change your opinion of this group.

Linda7

Hi Linda,

This couldn't be further than the truth. I never said that ALL RTG casinos were crooked. I have suggested on three occassions that RTG casinos should be boycotted; and this turned out to be uneccessary because the casino operators in question responded and took care of the situation (s).

In the past, I have been critical on how the software provider has handled some of their licensees, but you'll have to admit over the past two years it has been improving. All lot of this has to do with a number of the negiations I've been involved with in the past.

There is no change of stance on my part. I have always been fair. The bottom line is to provide a safe playing environment for the player. That's it.

This situation is not a case of RTG versus a player, but the operator versus the player. The player admitted breaking the casino's posted terms and conditions, but now recants his story.

 

[jetset]

I don't personally believe the 'Meister is siding with RTG, or anyone else here.

After reading Linda"s post I again examined Bryan's post and it seems to me he is doing his damnedest to be even-handed on this complicated matter where there has been what can only be described as pretty strange behaviour on both sides.

Hampton's apparent refusal to accept the first RTG all-clear on the Caribbean21 game (and does that extend now to the second inspection which has presumably also not thrown up evidence of crooked play) Their initial attempt to impose a retroactive WT requirement, and then the insistence on paying out a mere $4K a week despite claiming a healthy financial status.

Then, the payouts having commenced the unnecessary cryptic and other posts from Pirate and his unfortunate way of looking at things didn't help. And the coup de grace is perhaps Hampton's insistence on pursuing the matter in a mutually-recorded private phone call where none of us know what was said other than guys like Bryan who have actually listened to the whole thing.

Pirate claims misinterpretation, "playing" the operator or statements taken out of context, yet Bryan as an independent observer listened to the entire exchange from both parties and says there is no doubt that he admitted to using a bot in direct contravention to the T&Cs at Hampton. Did he use one? Was he really "playing" the operator? By confessing? Why would he do that? Was he just an extraordinarily lucky player using the Wizard's bs and a few hunches? Who knows - it's his (recorded) word against Hampton's (recorded) word and neither of them told the other they were recording the discussion.

There are not too many people who doubt Bryan's personal integrity - his history and mediation credentials are pretty good imo - and we have not seen evidence from Hamptons that they can prove robot play by Pirate. Nor have we seen reasonable explanations from Pirate regarding his behaviour and claimed admissions. In short, we haven't seen any of the evidence - either way.

It seems to me that the logical way to resolve this once and for all would be for Hamptons as the accuser to show their factual proof that Pirate has been using a bot, thus disqualifying his winnings in terms of their T&C. Something preferably in addition to a claimed confession which is disputed and which was apparently made under contentious circumstances.

But that is a decision that is beyond the remit of the mediator.

From a mediation viewpoint it is presently a stand-off, apparently with at least some critical evidence withheld and in these circumstances a mediator can only do so much before he has to advise the parties involved to negotiate a compromise or go the more acrimonious and expensive route of engaging litigators and seeking judgement based on fully presented facts and evidence.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Pirate - I suggest you ignore the malicious attacker - she wasn't acting with your interests at heart, quite the opposite. Don't be provoked into making things worse for yourself. There are people out there would like to see you cheated of your winnings.

I can Email you some possible contact info for Cipher - if that's OK with him, of course. Maybe your communications are somehow getting lost on the cyber highway. Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll get on it.

check yourt PM's or send it to Bryan. He can forward it to me. Thanks.

 

[Pirateofc21]

It works fine. You can even test it by using it to email yourself. You need to ensure that you have the correct email address listed in your user profile, but checking Cipher's, he has listed the same email address that has been on file for some time.

So the email function works.

Now, back to this mess. I've been involved with this situation form the git-go. From when p21 began emailing me letting me know that he was making some big wins at some RTG sites -- up to now.

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with the game, and I believe it should be coming back on line soon. We have a player who has won A LOT of money, and presently has all of his accounts locked. I'm still working on trying to get answers on why these aren't opened. All but Hamptons...

The situation in a nutshell. The player emails me stating that he is winning a lot of money at Carib21, he is worried that some casinos might not payout because of past reputations. He then contacts me in a panic because the game is down, no RTG site has it. I check into it myself and concur - yes, the game has been pulled. I contact RTG wondering what's up, and yes, they had pulled the game to ensure that everything is functioning normally. They have been watching his wins and wnat to ensure that everything is on the level. This software verification goes on for about two weeks or so, meanwhile the player is emailing often -- wondering what the status is; he wants to play again.

I tell him to just chill out. If he had won this money fair and square, he would have nothing to worry about.

After a couple of weeks, I'm told the game seems to be fine. After the player asks me about - I tell him so, congratulating him, and then he starts making his first "cryptic" posts.

Just about everyone involved flips out when they read what he posted. Admit it, these posts are not normal. Why the allusions? Why not a "lucky winner" post? The game was already suspect, and now the player is.

Let's not forget the amount of money that is involved here. We have tens of thousands of dollars won at a number of casinos besides Hamptons at this point. So game is pulled and examined again.

Bear in mind, this is from what I know. I am not aware of what Hampton casino is doing at this point.

Then from the week of January 30th, we have the recorded phone conversation(s). Both the casino operator and the player recorded their phone conversations. The player admitted to the operator that he used a robot. This is cut and dry with no misunderstanding. The player admitted it, and he went into certain details on making a negotiation for the software. This conversation occured while I was at the ICE and right before he started this thread. When he apparently reneged on the agreement he began this thread, which has been the most viewed thread in the history of Casinomeister.

He now denies using a robot, and states that he was "playing" the operator. In my opinion, this has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, "playing" a casino operator when there is 1.3 million at stake. But this is water under the bridge. What was said, was said.

I have read what has been posted here. I had a slew of private emails as well. I have had copies of phone conversations forwarded to me. I have spoken to the operator and to the player over the phone, and I've talked to RTG in depth about this, and most of us all agree that this is one big mess.

I wish the player would have kept his mouth shut. He would be a much happier and richer person right now. As you can tell, the player has a personality that seems to strive for attention.

I have my gut feelings on what is going on here, but gut feelings aren't enough because of the sum(s) of money involved. In my viewpoint there is simply not enough evidence from either side to come to a fair, objective and useful
conclusion.

I suggest that both parties talk to each other off the record to arrive at a compromise with a non-disclosure agreement. This would probably be the best route to take. But I honestly feel that P21 may have burned far too many bridges for this to happen. But let us hope this is not the case. I wish him luck.

Good luck!

Just for the record Bryan I had already been told that I wouldn't be getting any more payments. The 1.3 was a done deal. So I am not quite as stupid as you imply.

 

[The Dude]

Just for the record Bryan I had already been told that I wouldn't be getting any more payments. The 1.3 was a done deal. So I am not quite as stupid as you imply.

I've just about had it with you. You don't know when to quit, do you?

I will say it again...if you didn't shoot off your big mouth, none of this would have happened. The more you talk and post here, the more I believe that what I heard on the tape was a player fessing up to trying to rip off a casino.

You were told it was a done deal. Yes, because you agreed that you were using a robot, which violates their terms and conditions making your play void! Are you nuts or what?? You even tape recorded the same stupid conversation!

And why in the hell am I still trying to assist you? I'm the one who is nuts! Every minute that I spend dealing with your bullshit is one minute less then I spend with players who deserve assistance.

I would advise you from continuing this avenue of discourse before I give you a 30 day cooling off period from this forum.

 

[spearmaster]

Bryan may have implied it... I stated it outright.

You don't know when to shut up. You risk everything for nothing but a dumb little jab at the casino and the software manufacturer.

You say you will keep quiet and yet you continue to speak out.

In short, you have done a better job of ensuring you get nothing than anyone else possibly could have to damage your case.

 

[caruso]

I just tried to send myself an Email, no luck. Address is correct in profile.

I disagree about cutting any deals: if they can prove he used a bot, all well and good and case closed. If they can't, they pay up. No need for any halfway houses.

Yes, he's been mouthy. Being mouthy does not entitle the casino to void his winnings however. It entitles them and others to be mildly p*ssed off with him, no more.

If being mouthy was an excuse to void legitimate winnings, I'd never have seen a cent out of Angelciti, LOL.

 

[The Dude]

If being mouthy was an excuse to void legitimate winnings, I'd never have seen a cent out of Angelciti, LOL.

But if you spoke with Angelciti over the phone, admitted to breaking their terms and conditions by using a robot, and then made a deal to sell your robot software to them, how much $$ do you think you would have gotten?

 

[spearmaster]

I just got sent an email by someone else through the forum and it arrived okay. Anyone who wants to test can test mine, or ask me to test yours.

 

[caps]

Hhhmmm. I guess I hadn't really focused on the reference in CM's (oops, the Dude's) earlier message to a sale back of the robot software. At some point the old "working the casino" theory stretches a bit too thin . . .

 

[poil84]

What is all the mess

Then from the week of January 30th, we have the recorded phone conversation(s). Both the casino operator and the player recorded their phone conversations. The player admitted to the operator that he used a robot. This is cut and dry with no misunderstanding. The player admitted it, and he went into certain details on making a negotiation for the software. This conversation occured while I was at the ICE and right before he started this thread. When he apparently reneged on the agreement he began this thread, which has been the most viewed thread in the history of Casinomeister.

Let's see what we have on hand:

A player addmitted breaking rules, who is going to buy his later version, when he addmited in first place in commiting fraud?

I thing that the bad name of RTG is unfairly huirting this operation.

The casino in question is known in their honesty. One can read over all the boards, you will find all the complains settled. You will see that their manager comes several times on the message boards to address complains. This is something related to the first class operations (i.e. coming on board AND getting players happy).

Personally, I get very impressed with the thread

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Where CM says that the casino has been cheated by a syndicate of 12 players. Nevertheless, the casino manager did not go to publish the cheaters identity.

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That is all said from the info one can gather from the boards.

From my personal experience as a player there. (Here you gotta believe me, some people here know me more with my usuall handle, CM for example)

I did there a lot of playing and deposits and withdrawals totaling in 70-80K. I did not saw there but proffessional behaviour, and can say that I personally was very satisfied.

We players should remember that the casino is not ALWAYS teh bad guy. And to the end, going against a casino that is honest does hurt the players not just the operator.

 

[cipher]

Let's see what we have on hand:

A player addmitted breaking rules, who is going to buy his later version, when he addmited in first place in commiting fraud?

I thing that the bad name of RTG is unfairly huirting this operation.

The casino in question is known in their honesty. One can read over all the boards, you will find all the complains settled. You will see that their manager comes several times on the message boards to address complains. This is something related to the first class operations (i.e. coming on board AND getting players happy).

Personally, I get very impressed with the thread

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Where CM says that the casino has been cheated by a syndicate of 12 players. Nevertheless, the casino manager did not go to publish the cheaters identity.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That is all said from the info one can gather from the boards.

From my personal experience as a player there. (Here you gotta believe me, some people here know me more with my usuall handle, CM for example)

I did there a lot of playing and deposits and withdrawals totaling in 70-80K. I did not saw there but proffessional behaviour, and can say that I personally was very satisfied.

We players should remember that the casino is not ALWAYS teh bad guy. And to the end, going against a casino that is honest does hurt the players not just the operator.

WOW poil84, I am utterly amazed at your ability to grasp this situation in a flash. Not to mention your command of the English language is truly something to behold and well... it leaves me breathless. Please don't stop now.

CIPHER

 

[xianna]

WOW poil84, I am utterly amazed at your ability to grasp this situation in a flash. Not to mention your command of the English language is truly something to behold and well... it leaves me breathless. Please don't stop now.

CIPHER

Not nice, Cipher. English might not be this poster's first language, you know. I know I'd sound pretty funny trying to post in a language that wasn't my own.

 

[cipher]

Not nice, Cipher. English might not be this poster's first language, you know. I know I'd sound pretty funny trying to post in a language that wasn't my own.

Was it something I said?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Cipher

 

[linda7]

Hi Bryan,

Thank you so much for explaining the RTG situation. I thank you, also, for correcting me...you did say to "boycott" the group of casinos. I posted from memory, and we all know my memory is somewhat shot. Please know that I was not questioning your integrity whatsoever. I have the most respect for you and all that you do for us players. You are honest and decent.

***hugs***
Your Friend,
Linda

 

[slotchik]

I just don't understand why the casino can't just post the game logs proving something ONE way or the OTHER~~~
Makes NO sense at all!!! They HAVE to have proof or PAY THE FRIGGIN player right?????

 

[caruso]

Was it something I said?????

I wouldn't worry - I'm tempted to say worse.

Poor little Hampton. Such a stellar rep, now being dragged through the mud. And RTG. Muddying their good name so unfairly. Where is the justice.

LOOOOOOL.

I'll agree with Slotchik on this occasion. The game logs should identify foul play. If they're clean, he's paid. If they're not, he's not.

Casino won't release logs to player.

Damn, I really can't figure out what that might mean.

 

[cipher]

I wouldn't worry - I'm tempted to say worse.

Poor little Hampton. Such a stellar rep, now being dragged through the mud. And RTG. Muddying their good name so unfairly. Where is the justice.

LOOOOOOL.

I'll agree with Slotchik on this occasion. The game logs should identify foul play. If they're clean, he's paid. If they're not, he's not.

Casino won't release logs to player.

Damn, I really can't figure out what that might mean.

I'm just waiting for the HAMPTON CASINO and REALTIME GAMING to come up with the old "that information is not available to the player" routine. At which time I'll gladly post a session of more than 7,000 hands of my play that was sent to me directly from REALTIME GAMING investigations department and incident to exactly the same song and dance ROBOT b.s

CIPHER

 

[HamptonCasino]

Dear readers,

This message is from Hampton Casino and is addressed in general to the gaming community.

This pertains to the volumes of messages posted regarding our operation by "Pirateofc21" and the responses to them.

We post this to clear the air once and for all. Here's the facts and subsequently proof to back them up :

1> "Pirateofc21" signed up with our casino with the intention to defraud us using his "Robot software" the use of which is strictly forbidden at Hampton Casino as explained at our Terms and Conditions page

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

2> He misled us during the period of his play at our casino and got higher limits from the casino manager as that favored his robot's playing strategy
3> He ran his balance up to 1.3 Million Dollars and requested a withdrawal
4> We were at that time completely unaware of the illegal robot play in his account and began paying him his payout just like we have done with thousands of players over the past few years
5> We did however launch a detailed investigation into the play done in this account
6> Our software/technical experts detected robot play and determined that no human could have possibly been playing in that account
7> By that time we had already paid him $ 22500 in installments of $ 4000 a week as per our terms and conditions. We of course stopped these payments immediately.
8> We realized that it would be very hard to present the evidence at hand to the gaming community and prove his guilt and our innocence since the evidence was extremely technical hence we decided to engage in phone conversations with "Pirateofc21" for the purpose of making him admit his guilt and making this a lot easier on all of us
9> Ron Lewin (our casino manager) engaged in extensive conversations with him in which the player admitted to having this robot and even offered to sell it for $ 300,000.

The relevant part of those conversations can be listened to by clicking the link below. You will need Winamp or some other MP3 player to listen. If you do not have an MP3 player installed on your computer then you may download Winamp from

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(0.6 MB only)

The conversation itself is 5.59 MB and can be downloaded from :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This part of the conversation is unedited and is provided to you just like it happened.

I hope this will lay to rest any and all doubts about our honesty, integrity and intentions. We have always been more than fair to our players and I must say that I find it a bit hurtful that the community was so quick to indict a well established operation such as ours. At the same time, I would like to thank all those player that have supported us during this time.

We will leave the conversation up for a few days so all of you can download and listen as and how you please. I will also hang around for any questions.

Regards

Robert Myers
Public Relations
Hampton Casino

 

[cipher]

Dear readers,

This message is from Hampton Casino and is addressed in general to the gaming community.

This pertains to the volumes of messages posted regarding our operation by "Pirateofc21" and the responses to them.

We post this to clear the air once and for all. Here's the facts and subsequently proof to back them up :

1> "Pirateofc21" signed up with our casino with the intention to defraud us using his "Robot software" the use of which is strictly forbidden at Hampton Casino as explained at our Terms and Conditions page

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

2> He misled us during the period of his play at our casino and got higher limits from the casino manager as that favored his robot's playing strategy
3> He ran his balance up to 1.3 Million Dollars and requested a withdrawal
4> We were at that time completely unaware of the illegal robot play in his account and began paying him his payout just like we have done with thousands of players over the past few years
5> We did however launch a detailed investigation into the play done in this account
6> Our software/technical experts detected robot play and determined that no human could have possibly been playing in that account
7> By that time we had already paid him $ 22500 in installments of $ 4000 a week as per our terms and conditions. We of course stopped these payments immediately.
8> We realized that it would be very hard to present the evidence at hand to the gaming community and prove his guilt and our innocence since the evidence was extremely technical hence we decided to engage in phone conversations with "Pirateofc21" for the purpose of making him admit his guilt and making this a lot easier on all of us
9> Ron Lewin (our casino manager) engaged in extensive conversations with him in which the player admitted to having this robot and even offered to sell it for $ 300,000.

The relevant part of those conversations can be listened to by clicking the link below. You will need Winamp or some other MP3 player to listen. If you do not have an MP3 player installed on your computer then you may download Winamp from

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(0.6 MB only)

The conversation itself is 5.59 MB and can be downloaded from :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This part of the conversation is unedited and is provided to you just like it happened.

I hope this will lay to rest any and all doubts about our honesty, integrity and intentions. We have always been more than fair to our players and I must say that I find it a bit hurtful that the community was so quick to indict a well established operation such as ours. At the same time, I would like to thank all those player that have supported us during this time.

We will leave the conversation up for a few days so all of you can download and listen as and how you please. I will also hang around for any questions.

Regards

Robert Myers
Public Relations
Hampton Casino

First of Mr. Myers, where's the proof?

I hear your representative clearly soliciting a conspiracy between your representative and Pirateofc21 but I do not hear any admission of guilt.

Additionally you might need to understand thay anyone technically inclined could engineer such a program (after the fact) especially when offered a high six figure sum of money.

You made the decision to increase the wager limits for one reason and only one reason and that's called GREED, Unless Pirateofc21 was clever enough to figure out how to put a gun to your head over the Internet, and if that's the case then Pirateofc21 is much sharper than even you give him credit for.

Over what period of time was this 1.3 million dollars accumulated? Hours, days, weeks?

Lastly you're sadly mistaken if you think RTG software cannot be taken apart without the means of a robot. The only problem is that few people will be caught playing at RTG CASINOS given the fact that RTG Casinos have a deplorable record of NON PAYMENT. You sir and your organization have simply joined those ranks.

Cipher

 

[docdekay]

Lastly you're sadly mistaken if you think RTG software cannot be taken apart without the means of a robot. The only problem is that few people will be caught playing at RTG CASINOS given the fact that RTG Casinos have a deplorable record of NON PAYMENT. You sir and your organization have simply joined those ranks.

Cipher

I really hope such isnt the case. I have played exclusively at Hampton's Sportsbok until they abruptly took the book down the very day after the superbowl without ANY notice whatsoever. Up on sunday, and down the next day without even an email telling its customers that the sportsbook would no longer be operational. I had to contact Hampton to be told this. Imagine that. No email. No nothing. In all fairness, I have made several neteller w/d which were all processed within the stated 7 day business period during the couple of months I played there.

I made my final request for withdrawal for the remaining portion of my balance, approx 2K, last monday 02/02. I was assured by customer service that my request would be processed tomorrow 02/10. I just checked the balance in Hampton's neteller float and its less than 1K. I fully expect to payed tomorrow, which was the date promised to me by one of their CS reps, Geoff, in live chat.

Thankfully, I have screenshots of my account and documentation of every live chat. Considering the sportsbook software was completely taken down I wouldnt have any other proof.

I've been paid out by Hampton each and every time but the way the way this entire sportsbook thing was handled was unprofessional IMO.

 

[caruso]

Good grief.

"We realized that it would be very hard to present the evidence at hand to the gaming community and prove his guilt and our innocence since the evidence was extremely technical."...

presumably = "...since the evidence didn't exist."

If they offered me 300K to invent a robot, I'd do it. And I can barely locate the on/off switch on my computer most days.

LOL.

How about you release they play logs to 1) the player 2) the community at large and 3) a recognized authority like M. Shakelford? The proof is there, the player has no case and it'll put an end to the grief.

How about at least a sketch of some aspects of the cheating? Not everyone here is a idiot; some people might even be able to make sense of it.

No, of course you won't.

The reason you aren't paying isn't because you were cheated.

The reason is that you don't have two cents to rub together.

 

[cipher]

Dear readers,

I will also hang around for any questions.

Regards

Robert Myers
Public Relations
Hampton Casino

Well I guess Mr. Myers has left the building.

Oh well I thought the Sports Book items was very enlightening.

Lastly Mr. Myers if you want to put your 300 large in an escrow account I'll be happy to provide a "robot" program to you source code and all and I'll guarantee you that the PIRATE has never even laid eyes on it.

Cipher

 

[gamblinboi]

Mr Myers,

why don't you address my complaint about your organization (Portofino/Hamptons) in this thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/portofino-casino.3473/?t=3473

You people made up excuses not to pay me a measly $100, I don't see it a stretch of the imagination to see you doing the same thing for 1.3 million.

 

[cipher]

Mr Myers,

why don't you address my complaint about your organization (Portofino/Hamptons) in this thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/portofino-casino.3473/?t=3473

You people made up excuses not to pay me a measly $100, I don't see it a stretch of the imagination to see you doing the same thing for 1.3 million.

Anybody ever heard the saying: "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's more than likely a duck."

Cipher

 

[jetset]

Jeeeeez, and I thought Pirate was ill-advised with his postings, and with his conduct in this incredible issue!

It seems to me that Hamptons have just shot themselves in the foot and badly damaged their case with a posting that explicitly admits their intention in calling Pirate was to entrap him into an admission (see point 8 of their public statement). How ethical is that? And how would that stand up in a court?

Other statements that stand out are the sheer arrogance of refusing to post crucial evidence that the Pirate was using a bot because it was "...extremely technical" and the lack of credibility in only posting selected and edited parts of a conversation where the Pirate is alleged to have confessed to using a bot.

Surely an honest, independent and technically oriented broker like The Wizard or The Gamemaster could have been commissioned to interpret and give a verdict the industry can trust on this technical evidence which is so beyond us, and on the gaming logs for that matter? Why was this course not followed to prove conclusively that Pirate had contravened their T&Cs and was therefore rightly disqualified from his winnings?

Are we seriously expected to believe that Hamptons acted in an ethical and trustworthy manner when they admit to deliberately seeking to ensnare Pirate in an admission?

Who is advising these people, for goodness sake? This is not creating any sort of positive result or impression and would be largely inadmissible in any court.

 

[gamblinboi]

The relevant part of those conversations can be listened to by clicking the link below.

how about the part before this. The part where Pirate alleges you guys basically told him to say he used a robot. I'd like to hear the ENTIRE conversation, not just this part.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

PC21 should have taken the deal. This is how the online casino industry works. If you win big, you stand of good chance of needing to negotiate for all or some of your winnings. It's not fair, but thats the nature of this shady business.

Basically you have only a few choices. Play at a casino that uses fair & random software like RTG and be prepared to work for your winnings. Or you can play at a casino that uses software that probably cheats, like Microgaming*, and get paid in the unlikely event of a win.

Neither is a great choice.

* I know my Microgaming comment wills cause paroxysms amongst some players and industry insiders, but Ive tracked my own results at MG casinos and Ive seen enough data from other players to strongly suspect Microgaming of cheating at their BJ and Video Poker games.

 

[jetset]

You guys have to listen to even this selective tape that Hamptons have made available - the Hamptons guy is very clearly (to my mind) "leading" the Pirate into these alleged admissions. A good litigator will shred this to pieces in no time.

And here's a Hamptons manager suggesting to the Pirate - on tape - that they buddy up with a fat bankroll, find another casino with deep pockets and no bot restrictions and make themselves some money. It is absolutely unbelievable.

Hamptons, it is not to late to avert the disaster for which you are clearly headed - go to The Wiz or The Gamemaster with your technical proof - that's if you really have any, of course.

 

[jyde]

I don't for a second believe they could prove robot play. That's why they started paying the guy - after WEEKS of investigations.

 

[spearmaster]

Unbelievable.

HamptonCasino, unless you can provide solid proof of "bot play" - not just BS allegations - you'd better pay up. Your admission of "entrapment" is not likely to go down well either.

Pirate, don't EVEN start.

Dirk - LOL... but OT.

 

[caruso]

There can't be any doubt that this is anything but an attempt to lead the player into making a false admission. And listen to P21's responses - it SOUNDS like he's making it up as he goes along.

Obviously Hampton wouldn't go on record about defrauding other RTGs if it wasn't part of some pre-arranged scheme; imagine the consequences to the Hampton fellow when RTG got wind of it! The whole thing has been set up with the DIRECT authorization of RTG - I'd bet my very last cent on that. And once again, RTG have gone about it in just about the worst way possible.

If this the "bot confession" Bryan alluded to? This isn't evidence of anything but a botched-up scheme concocted by the casino the defraud the player by leading him into making false statements.

 

[caps]

Err . . . I gues I'm a bit confused as to how this nasty little scheme, which it clearly was, was "botched." It was designed to elicit a concession from the player that he used a robot, and it worked. It was ugly, but it was not botched.

Neither side covers itself in glory here. The casino manager sounds like a bullying thug. The player sounds like a simpering cheat. There can be no doubt that this was an attempt to entrap. This may be unethical (if the concept of ethics can be said to exist in this little world), but law enforcement folks (which the Hampton people may well know something about, perhaps from the wrong side) "entrap" all the time. The truly salient thing, though, is that the player allows himself to be entrapped. He clearly (i) admits to writing a robot program and to using it here, and (ii) expresses a willingness to sell the program he's developed, and to work on developing something that would be less detectible, for use in a conspiracy to attack other casinos. This is good? It seems to me that the only way one can ignore this is if one operates under the somewhat dubious proposition that all players in all instances are good, and that all casinos in all instances are evil -- only then can one conclude that the meek little programmer here was unquestionably hoodwinked into making up his remarks. I don't think that's a defensible way to look at this situation. Here, in my estimation, they both smell (the casino and the player), and they deserve each other. I, for one, have never played Hampton or Portofino or anything else related to these folks, and now never would -- not in a hundred gazillion years.

Two caveats: (i) again, this does not represent the entirety of the recorded conversations, so no definitive conclusions can be drawn here; and (ii) I would agree that the withholding of the "technical" information seriously undermines the casino's position. There are plenty of folks, myself excluded, who could analyze that information very effectively.