RTG still rocks!

[NASHVEGAS]

Dick Allen aka Richie Allen

Welcome back, Mr. Steed

 

[Pinababy69]

Gee, first we had hot dog analogies, now baseball? I guess hot dogs and baseball go hand in hand, but what in the world do either of them have to do with RTG slots? Hmmmmmm.......I'll have to put my thinking cap on I guess. I'm absolutely positive there's a hidden message in there that I'm just too stupid to pick up on.

 

[aceking123]

RTG

hello all, well just a little input on the rtg ive realy never got on with them never realy won had a few hits here & there but today was a good day thx to club world i finally got a random jackpot 2.6k london inspector machine from 300 dollar deposit so thumps up. at long last ive had my first win after many dead sessions .

 

[johnsteed]

***

Gee, first we had hot dog analogies, now baseball? I guess hot dogs and baseball go hand in hand, but what in the world do either of them have to do with RTG slots? Hmmmmmm.......I'll have to put my thinking cap on I guess. I'm absolutely positive there's a hidden message in there that I'm just too stupid to pick up on.

I suppose you could ask your buddies A, B, and C to help you figure that one out. Four thinking caps are better than one.



Steed


***

 

[TOC]

Slots

I said very little slots, don't recall saying I didn't play them at all. Even when I visit the land based casino's if I'm hitting the slots I'll stay if not I move on to BJ or even craps. Again best of luck to all, keep drinking the cool-aid with those hot dogs.

 

[TOC]

mrjones

 

[Nifty29]

I said very little slots, don't recall saying I didn't play them at all. Even when I visit the land based casino's if I'm hitting the slots I'll stay if not I move on to BJ or even craps. Again best of luck to all, keep drinking the cool-aid with those hot dogs.

OK, stop being so vague in that case.

Did you win those posted amounts on BJ or Slots?

 

[Pinababy69]

I suppose you could ask your buddies A, B, and C to help you figure that one out. Four thinking caps are better than one.

Does that stand for Alpha, Bravo, Charlie? So that would make me Delta? Interesting....didn't know you were into that type of lingo? Isn't that what the military uses? Maybe I'll see if Echo and Foxtrot can help out too.

 

[johnsteed]

***

So that would make me Delta?

No, that would make you teammate "F", as in ****ED.





Steed


***

 

[TOC]

OK, stop being so vague in that case.

Did you win those posted amounts on BJ or Slots?

I mix it up, never stay at any one slot for a long period of time. I can say that although I play the progressive slots, I do tend to stay clear of them and try not to get suckered in by the huge progressive payouts. Many posters will lead you to believe that operators are rigging slots only, come on. If things were rigged it could happen to all games, that's common since. Mix up the games and bet amount. Good luck.

 

[slotheadlizard]

Congrats

hello all, well just a little input on the rtg ive realy never got on with them never realy won had a few hits here & there but today was a good day thx to club world i finally got a random jackpot 2.6k london inspector machine from 300 dollar deposit so thumps up. at long last ive had my first win after many dead sessions .

WTG on your JP, London Inspector is my fave. game. I was thrilled when it returned.

 

[silcnlayc]

WTG on your JP, London Inspector is my fave. game. I was thrilled when it returned.

Ditto on that!

Now where did they hide that darn WTG button?? (I asked a while ago) and I guess I didn't holler loud enough or I went blind when I was answered...

Sheesh...not nice to fool with them buttons!

.

 

[Pinababy69]

WTG on your JP, London Inspector is my fave. game. I was thrilled when it returned.

You know, that's funny. I had seldom ever played that Sherlock Holmes game before it was taken away. But the really good session I had at Inetbet last month was on that game. I think I was only playing 20 cents, and I swear to God the thing must have retriggered for about 150 spins and a final total of well over $100. About a week later, I went back to it....and I'm positive I went over 500 spins without a whiff of a free spin round. Which pretty much cured me of any fascination I may have had with that game. But it absolutely can pay out huge, when it feels like it.

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

Now where did they hide that darn WTG button?? (I asked a while ago) and I guess I didn't holler loud enough or I went blind when I was answered...

Sheesh...not nice to fool with them buttons!

.

I don't think WTG button ever existed in this session - only in screenshots.

 

[slotheadlizard]

WTG

Silc, I always thought that button was just on the screen shot screens, I could be wrong though.

Pina, keep in mind Sherlock is very streaky. It can take forever to get the damn thing, and even then sometimes you get no retriggs. I still like it because of the opportunity it presents to retrigg. I think my longest bonus was literally 45 minutes, can't remember how many retrigs, but about 100-150 spins.

 

[zebedy]

Gee, first we had hot dog analogies, now baseball? I guess hot dogs and baseball go hand in hand, but what in the world do either of them have to do with RTG slots? Hmmmmmm.......I'll have to put my thinking cap on I guess. I'm absolutely positive there's a hidden message in there that I'm just too stupid to pick up on.

hot dogs easy to prepare when your to busy spinng the slots
baseball, the bat to smash up the pc when you lose


to be fair to rtg i have had my largest wins at there casino's, just my lucky day i guess

 

[Pinababy69]

hot dogs easy to prepare when your to busy spinng the slots
baseball, the bat to smash up the pc when you lose

Never thought of it...but that works.

 

[silcnlayc]

IXOXOXOXOXOX: don't think WTG button ever existed in this session - only in screenshots.

slotheadlizard WTG

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silc, I always thought that button was just on the screen shot screens, I could be wrong though.

Ok, you wo...stop joshing me...and give me the darn button!

I want to thank you both for clearing this up because for some reason, I thought there was a WTG button on all the sceens....geez..so much for paying attention huh?

.

 

[Nifty29]

I mix it up, never stay at any one slot for a long period of time. I can say that although I play the progressive slots, I do tend to stay clear of them and try not to get suckered in by the huge progressive payouts. Many posters will lead you to believe that operators are rigging slots only, come on. If things were rigged it could happen to all games, that's common since. Mix up the games and bet amount. Good luck.

Geez TOC - you should run for Congress. The question I posed was simple.....did you generate those big wins from SLOT play or BJ play?? You are being incredibly vague, and it seems somewhat deliberate.

As for rigging slots VS rigging other games......the fact that how much a slot pays out can be altered at any time by the operator is about as close to rigging as you can get IMO. An 'non-rigged' slot should have a constant payout %, controlled only by the number of symbols on each reel which must also be constant. It seems RTG operators can alter the symbols whenever they want and THAT is totally dishonest.

Im not a BJ expert, but given the small house edge it seems (from other posts on the subject) that it stands out like dogs' balls if the cards are being rigged. The only problem with this is that even when a BJ player sees this and raises a red flag, they generally cant provide enough data (e.g. from millions of hands) to confirm it...so its tough to point the finger and back it up with evidence.

So, the problem remains is that IF all the games are rigged can you REALLY tell just from playing them for a while?? Can anyone honestly say they could sit down and play some slots at 96% one day and 92% the next day and see a noticeable difference? I know I couldnt. You can still have a nice win on the 92% day and have a bad run on the 96% day - its all possible - its the payout average that has changed and you cant see that difference unless you spin millions of times. With BJ, would you be able to tell if the casino was rigging the cards to reduce the average by 3% ?? Not without your million hands you cant - you might just have a bad streak which is possible even without the cards being rigged.

The long and the short of it is that a player CANT tell if a casino is rigging their games unless they are prepared to play the millions of hands/spins.

Every time we deposit we have to TRUST that the casino is giving us a 'fair' game, and we have to base that trust on the information we glean from places like CM and our own experiences.

Personally, I think it stinks that RTG operators are allowed to alter the payout of the slots at their leisure, and for that reason I trust them 'less' than I do other operators like MG. At least with MG, the payouts seem to be set across the board with all the operators and nobody has even come forward and suggested otherwise (unlike with RTG)

Anyway, I just think that TOC should have been a bit clearer about the figures he posted, as he seems to continually avoid answering a simple but relevant question. I also wonder if all the transactions were included, but thats a trust thing I guess. If TOC was just an average player with no ties to an RTG operation, I wouldnt give it a second thought but it seems he does have a vested interest in making everyone believe they can 'win' at an RTG casino.

 

[TOC]

The attack of TOC

Again, I played both Slots and Blackjack on those wins. Example: Blackjack for awhile, won some money and then slots for awhile and won some money. Simple. I would like to reply to a couple of your comments.

1. Geez TOC - you should run for Congress
(I'm beginning to think so too if they don't quit all the spending.)

2. You are being incredibly vague, and it seems somewhat deliberate.
(I started posting here as a player, the hound dogs are the ones that spammed my url not me. I have no agenda here.)

3. It seems RTG operators can alter the symbols whenever they want and THAT is totally dishonest.
( Personally I don't know if stuff can be rigged, I hope not but if it can then it goes on at every casino. I would never accuse any casino of this unless it could be proved and it hasn't. Making accusations and hurting reputations isn't cool. I've seen legal action taken against posters and boards for these type accusations. So I would never do it myself.)

4. so its tough to point the finger and back it up with evidence.
(If ya can't back it up then it's probably not happening. Do you honestly think one person runs the casino and a secret win/loose button?)

5. Can anyone honestly say they could sit down and play some slots at 96% one day and 92% the next day and see a noticeable difference? I know I couldnt. (I rest my case, you can't and once again how can you say their rigged?)

6. Every time we deposit we have to TRUST that the casino is giving us a 'fair' game, and we have to base that trust on the information we glean from places like CM and our own experiences. (I agree and my site is powered by one on CM's list. Do you think I would be affiliated with anything CM had rouge? Come on the guys been around online gaming since dirt.)

7. Personally, I think it stinks that RTG operators are allowed to alter the payout of the slots at their leisure (You stated at the middle of this letter you had NO PROOF. Do you or don't you? Do you think the USA landed on the moon?)

8. Anyway, I just think that TOC should have been a bit clearer about the figures he posted, as he seems to continually avoid answering a simple but relevant question. (For the, how many times now? I play both during the sessions. I jump around, I get board doing one thing!)

9. If TOC was just an average player with no ties to an RTG operation, I wouldn't give it a second thought but it seems he does have a vested interest in making everyone believe they can 'win' at an RTG casino (Look how many times do I have to say I never posted my site url on CM's board. Hound dog went into my personal profile and sniffed it out. Was it you, since you refer to dog balls? Actually in the original post I never said look what I won at xxxurl, I simply posted what I won. Whats the beef here anyway, I see webmasters linking their sites in every post? I didn't do that so give me a break on that issue at least!)

 

[Nifty29]

I will respond in Red

Again, I played both Slots and Blackjack on those wins. Example: Blackjack for awhile, won some money and then slots for awhile and won some money. Simple. Not if you won $100 on slots and $2400 on Bj it isnt. How about something like 'it was mostly BJ' which I suspect it was.(notice I said suspect as you wont indicate one way or the other)

I would like to reply to a couple of your comments.

1. Geez TOC - you should run for Congress
(I'm beginning to think so too if they don't quit all the spending.)

2. You are being incredibly vague, and it seems somewhat deliberate.
(I started posting here as a player, the hound dogs are the ones that spammed my url not me. I have no agenda here.) Nobody said you were spamming your url. Its just that when another member points out your direct affiliation/involvement with an RTG operation, it throws a different light on your comments as a 'player' i.e I doubt I will see any posts from you saying how much you lost at an RTG casino

3. It seems RTG operators can alter the symbols whenever they want and THAT is totally dishonest.
( Personally I don't know if stuff can be rigged, I hope not but if it can then it goes on at every casino. I would never accuse any casino of this unless it could be proved and it hasn't. Making accusations and hurting reputations isn't cool. I've seen legal action taken against posters and boards for these type accusations. So I would never do it myself.) Several people including an active casino rep and some ex-reps have stated that an RTG casino CAN set their slots higher or lower at any time within a given range (I believe 92% was stated as the lowest). Its about as much 'proof' as you'll ever get in regards to how a particular software operates without someone sending you the code or the operator interface. I wasnt accusing any CASINO of anything illegal....the discussion has been about payouts and rigging and it all depends on what your definition of 'rigging' is. In an unregulated industry such as this, there is nothing 'illegal' about altering slots its just unethical IMO.

4. so its tough to point the finger and back it up with evidence.
(If ya can't back it up then it's probably not happening. Do you honestly think one person runs the casino and a secret win/loose button?) So if someone knows that their friend murdered someone, but they cant PROVE it, then it didnt happen? How many people have got away with crimes simply because there wasnt enough evidence?? It doesnt mean it didnt happen. As for a 'secret win/LOSE button' - well maybe a secret 'win less/lose less button' is more apt.

5. Can anyone honestly say they could sit down and play some slots at 96% one day and 92% the next day and see a noticeable difference? I know I couldnt. (I rest my case, you can't and once again how can you say their rigged?) Refer to previous answers

6. Every time we deposit we have to TRUST that the casino is giving us a 'fair' game, and we have to base that trust on the information we glean from places like CM and our own experiences. (I agree and my site is powered by one on CM's list. Do you think I would be affiliated with anything CM had rouge? Come on the guys been around online gaming since dirt.) I dont care who it is - if the odds are being changed all the time then its NOT a fair game.

7. Personally, I think it stinks that RTG operators are allowed to alter the payout of the slots at their leisure (You stated at the middle of this letter you had NO PROOF. Do you or don't you? Do you think the USA landed on the moon?) Refer to 3 and 4. The moon landing happened before I was born and I wasnt personally there, but based on what Ive read and heard I believe they did....but I dont know for SURE. Like I said...we form opinions based on what we read and hear and experience.

8. Anyway, I just think that TOC should have been a bit clearer about the figures he posted, as he seems to continually avoid answering a simple but relevant question. (For the, how many times now? I play both during the sessions. I jump around, I get board doing one thing!) Many of us get BORED doing one thing, but in this case its relevant to the issue at hand. If you just said at the beginning 'about $xxx was slot wins etc etc' we wouldnt be having this discussion.

9. If TOC was just an average player with no ties to an RTG operation, I wouldn't give it a second thought but it seems he does have a vested interest in making everyone believe they can 'win' at an RTG casino (Look how many time do I have to say I never posted my site url on CM's board. Hound dog went into my personal profile and sniffed it out. Was it you, since you refer to dog balls? Actually in the original post I never said look what I won at xxxurl, I simply posted what I won. Whats the beef here anyway, I see webmasters linking their sites in every post? I didn't do that so give me a break on that issue at least!) Are you asking if I have 2 profiles? No, and Im insulted that you inferred that I do. Im not sure what the arrangements are for linking as I dont do it, but Im certain someone here will shed some light. Nobody is accusing you of promoting your site, but you have to admit it raises eyebrows when someone comes out and says 'look you CAN win at RTG' and doesnt mention they have a close relationship with them.

Maybe Im being too persistent here, but its my pet hate when people wont answer a simple VERY RELEVANT question about something THEY posted publicly. One's own depositing/playing is one's own business, but it was you that provided that information freely and you should at least be upfront about how it happened. It raises even more red flags when someone posts these kinds of things and then becomes very vague about the detail...and that, as we know, is where the devil resides.

 

[cynthial]

I don't know if the Hound Dog references are for Gammblex, me personally or any of the other members who visited your public profile but either way, PFFFFTTTTTTT.

 

[TOC]

nifty 29 & cynthia

Wow, pit bulls of the message board world. How much clearer do I need to make my last post be or do you always look for trouble? I didn't know I needed to log how may plays of BJ vrs. how many spins before posting a couple good hits. My F.M.. Nifty I personally think you should educate yourself on Affiliate websites, which most of the knowledgeable posters operate on this board. Operators aren't connected directly with casinos, although they do benefit from promoting them. I didn't promote my url as you have said, so no fault of mine. I do play personally at my site so why can't I show a good hit? I mean all the gloom and doom being posted I do have the right, don't I? Is this your board or am I at CasinoMeister.com?? You act like a monitor telling me I'm doing wrong.. It's people like you that make people who want to join and respond not do so because of personal attacks and theories. You might think your cute and yes and few of your regular buds might give you the Thank You click to make you fell big but I can assure you anyone with any common since knows that I've tried to explain my position and let dead dogs lay. Speaking of dogs you never posted in red about why you were talking about dog balls? I didn't get that one, sorry!

Cynthia, stay out of it or speak English. That PFTTT or whatever your doing is stupid.

 

[jas2587]

Wow, pit bulls of the message board world. How much clearer do I need to make my last post be or do you always look for trouble? I didn't know I needed to log how may plays of BJ vrs. how many spins before posting a couple good hits. My F.M.. Nifty I personally think you should educate yourself on Affiliate websites, which most of the knowledgeable posters operate on this board. Operators aren't connected directly with casinos, although they do benefit from promoting them. I didn't promote my url as you have said, so no fault of mine. I do play personally at my site so why can't I show a good hit? I mean all the gloom and doom being posted I do have the right, don't I? Is this your board or am I at CasinoMeister.com?? You act like a monitor telling me I'm doing wrong.. It's people like you that make people who want to join and respond not do so because of personal attacks and theories. You might think your cute and yes and few of your regular buds might give you the Thank You click to make you fell big but I can assure you anyone with any common since knows that I've tried to explain my position and let dead dogs lay. Speaking of dogs you never posted in red about why you were talking about dog balls? I didn't get that one, sorry!

Cynthia, stay out of it or speak English. That PFTTT or whatever your doing is stupid.

You say you won at "Your" site where are the screen shots at? I am sure that you can snag a few as it is "Your" site
No 1 is personally attacking you there are quite a few that would like toknow what you played after all we Just have "Your" word that you won your depsoits an withdrawels that you posted could be any 1s from "Your" site

Cynthia spoke English just fine she is a lady an didnt wanna sat F off an she is not stupid you are low blowing now Nifty an Cynthia are very respected members of this forum how dare you come here an talk down like that shame on you

you sure know an awful lot about Playersonly casino tooo ot that "Your" site also

Cindy

 

[TOC]

You say you won at "Your" site where are the screen shots at? I am sure that you can snag a few as it is "Your" site
No 1 is personally attacking you there are quite a few that would like to know what you played after all we Just have "Your" word that you won your depsoits an withdrawels that you posted could be any 1s from "Your" site

Cynthia spoke English just fine she is a lady an didnt wanna sat F off an she is not stupid you are low blowing now Nifty an Cynthia are very respected members of this forum how dare you come here an talk down like that shame on you

you sure know an awful lot about Playersonly casino tooo ot that "Your" site also

Cindy

Where is my screen shot at? What is wrong with you? I'll take a screen shot if I win several thousand dollars, maybe. Am I in another world here?
And you say that Cynthia is a lady and posted that because she was saying F-off in a nice way? Where am I at? Looser Land, geesh. If she's a respected member of this forum then she shouldn't be telling anyone to F-off, just my opinion. I haven't told anyone to F-off. Now your saying I can't reply to any posts at CM's site? Yes I did reply to the playersonly question, just trying to help but after thinking about the post later I noticed that a Germany player can't play there, only US & Canada. Why don't ya go work on him and leave me alone. Dang, can't even post help without being stalked now. I gotta go because I have a life, I'm tired of trying to make uneducated minds listen. It appears I can't post here but I do want the educated people to understand I joined as a player and never responded agressivly until attacked by your loyal members!:notworthy Time for a beer!

 

[jas2587]

Where is my screen shot at? What is wrong with you? I'll take a screen shot if I win several thousand dollars, maybe. Am I in another world here?
And you say that Cynthia is a lady and posted that because she was saying F-off in a nice way? Where am I at? Looser Land, geesh. If she's a respected member of this forum then she shouldn't be telling anyone to F-off, just my opinion. I haven't told anyone to F-off. Now your saying I can't reply to any posts at CM's site? Yes I did reply to the playersonly question, just trying to help but after thinking about the post later I noticed that a Germany player can't play there, only US & Canada. Why don't ya go work on him and leave me alone. Dang, can't even post help without being stalked now. I gotta go because I have a life, I'm tired of trying to make uneducated minds listen. It appears I can't post here but I do want the educated people to understand I joined as a player and never responded agressivly until attacked by your loyal members!:notworthy Time for a beer!

The F off was my interpitation of the pfffttt not hers just my opinion
an it is LOSER not LOOSER "uneducated minds"
you have a way of trying to put words into our post that are not there
where do I say this at
" Now your saying I can't reply to any posts at CM's site? "
Stalked please not in your life
Enjoy your beer cough

Cindy

 

[TOC]

The F off was my interpitation of the pfffttt not hers just my opinion
an it is LOSER not LOOSER "uneducated minds"
you have a way of trying to put words into our post that are not there
where do I say this at
" Now your saying I can't reply to any posts at CM's site? "
Stalked please not in your life
Enjoy your beer cough

Cindy

One misspelled word out of all I've posted, nice try. BTW - Let's see should be "and" where you say "an" and not "your" it's "you're." See what I mean about this board! :notworthy

 

[chuchu59]

I agree with you TOC.

Wow, pit bulls of the message board world. How much clearer do I need to make my last post be or do you always look for trouble? I didn't know I needed to log how may plays of BJ vrs. how many spins before posting a couple good hits. My F.M.. Nifty I personally think you should educate yourself on Affiliate websites, which most of the knowledgeable posters operate on this board. Operators aren't connected directly with casinos, although they do benefit from promoting them. I didn't promote my url as you have said, so no fault of mine. I do play personally at my site so why can't I show a good hit? I mean all the gloom and doom being posted I do have the right, don't I? Is this your board or am I at CasinoMeister.com?? You act like a monitor telling me I'm doing wrong.. It's people like you that make people who want to join and respond not do so because of personal attacks and theories. You might think your cute and yes and few of your regular buds might give you the Thank You click to make you fell big but I can assure you anyone with any common since knows that I've tried to explain my position and let dead dogs lay. Speaking of dogs you never posted in red about why you were talking about dog balls? I didn't get that one, sorry!

Cynthia, stay out of it or speak English. That PFTTT or whatever your doing is stupid.

I agree with you TOC. I hate Nifty because it was him who won a progressive and not me. As for Cyn, she was bonus-unbanned by a Rival though she is now banned again. Yippee! Does that make you happy?

Actually both these 2 posters are among the finest in CM. They are just asking simple questions so why dont you reply directly instead of attacking them. You dont like PFTTT but how do you make of your ZZZZZ to Silc. You cannot have it both ways my friend. If you dont want us to ask you anything more just say it. However, if you do post something that we uneducated minds have queries about, it's only natural for us to enquire on them.

It seems that many of us and your goodself dont see eye-to-eye on a number of issues and hopefully this thread will melt away soon bar the nominations for Best Posting awards.

 

[KasinoKing]

Back on the original topic; I don't generally play a lot at RTGs, but I did sign-up to BuzzLuck last month.
Took the 100% on a 150 deposit.

First I was ROCKED when I hit a huge win on Jackpot Piatas - 1,028 from a 4 spin.
(In winner screenshots - July 28th)
When I left that slot I had 1,047 and was not quite half way through WR...
This is what happened from there to WR point:-

Old Attachment (Invalid)

So those last 5 games I played approaching WR are what really ROCKED me again.
In the games I played BEFORE Jackpot Piatas my total return was 94%.
Manipulated or just plain unlucky... you decide!

KK

 

[Nifty29]

I hate Nifty because it was him who won a progressive and not me

If you ever come down under Chu Ill gladly share some of the loot with dinner and drinks my friend

TOC - Thankyou for the info about affiliate sites. It certainly explains why Ive been getting strange Neteller payments and cheques for the past 4 years.

I believe the difference between the site you mentioned in your profile and the links that webmasters include in their sigs here is that yours is not an affiliate portal but rather an actual casino (whether its white label/skin or whatever). I havent inspected every members sigs but I dont remember seeing anyone having direct links to casinos (apart from reps)

"Standing out like dogs balls" means it stands out rather obviously.

Nobody expected you to post your logs. You showed some deposit/withdrawal figures to show how much you won at an RTG casino (your own as it turns out) and we asked what games you won on, as the whole discussion is about SLOTS and how members feel they arent getting a fair game. You then stated that you 'play a little slots but mainly BJ' and then I asked if the main proportion of the winnings was from BJ (makes sense given what you stated above).

You then avoided the question again by being rude to other members and myself. I think you're just getting annoyed because you know what the answer is and you dont want to say it - so just say that you dont want to say and everyone can draw their own conclusion.

I go out of my way not to be rude to people, even though sometimes they deserve it. My issue is that I hate dishonesty and shilling but I cant prove it....so, in your words, it must not have happened.

On the face of it, posting YOUR winnings at YOUR casino (with a noticeable gap of 12 days between your comps cashin and your withdrawal I may add) with no real indication of how much slot winnings were involved does nothing to address the reasons why members are posting about RTG - that they cant win on SLOTS.

 

[Pinababy69]

So, the problem remains is that IF all the games are rigged can you REALLY tell just from playing them for a while?? Can anyone honestly say they could sit down and play some slots at 96% one day and 92% the next day and see a noticeable difference? I know I couldnt. You can still have a nice win on the 92% day and have a bad run on the 96% day - its all possible - its the payout average that has changed and you cant see that difference unless you spin millions of times.

If TOC was just an average player with no ties to an RTG operation, I wouldnt give it a second thought but it seems he does have a vested interest in making everyone believe they can 'win' at an RTG casino.

That was a great post Nifty, and the first paragraph I agree with 110%, and THAT'S the only point that I was trying to make in sharing my own personal experiences over years of RTG play. I personally cannot notice any difference. Bad sessions...yes. Bad months...yes. But there are wins, and I've had some nice ones. Same as always for me. But again, that's JUST ME. I never discounted anyone else's playing experience, bad or otherwise.

As to the OP of this thread, I didn't see him/her spamming their links in their posts...and while I haven't checked, it sounds like they've even removed their link from their profile....so I don't get the witch hunt here. Both Classymom and myself posted that we have had good experiences at RTG of late....neither of us are webmasters or affiliates. What could our motive possibly be? And Zebedy, who IS an affiliate.....also posted that their largest wins have come at RTG, and that's where they've been luckiest. I must have missed TOC's "zzzzzz" post, I don't remember seeing that. But besides that, what have they done besides post their positive experience to counter-balance all the negative. Just as I did, just as Zebedy did, just as Classymom did. And I'm sure there are others. But man, I gotta tell ya....if I was new here and read this....even if I'd just won a fortune at an RTG, I don't think I'd be posting my experience in this thread, or any thread...if this is the reaction it gets.

Never once have I said that the payouts haven't been changed....not once. What I said was that I personally have noticed no difference. That's my experience, that's my opinion, and I'm just as entitled to share that....as anyone who has had a bad or numerous bad experiences at RTG.

Just as you highlighted Nifty.....I honestly think that if RTG were going to tinker with their slots, it would be the adjustment of payout...which has been pretty much accepted that they CAN do. And I just don't think it would be as noticeable as everyone thinks. Honestly, playing a slot....if a payout was lowered from 97% to say 92%....how noticeable would that be to an average player? Less line wins? Lowered frequency of bonus features? Lower paying bonus features? All of the above? But say a feature hit on average every 150 spins.....would you really notice it hitting ie. every 175 spins instead?

I think it was Rusty suggested it before...that all players should request their logs after each session, if they believe they're not getting a fair game. Have the data transferred over to a spread sheet (I'm sure KK or Rusty could help with that)...and actually track your play over a period of time. I'm pretty sure I suggested something similar to this a few years back when the big RTG uproar was in full swing then. But no one did it. Conspiracy theories are fine....but data and facts are way better, at least IMO. If anyone is that convinvced that they are not being given a fair game...then why not try and actually gather some proof to support your case. Something besides "it doesn't feel right"? All I can say is that's what I would do myself, if I thought I were being cheated. Either that, or not play period I guess.

 

[deucebag]

Honestly, playing a slot....if a payout was lowered from 97% to say 92%....how noticeable would that be to an average player? Less line wins? Lowered frequency of bonus features? Lower paying bonus features? All of the above? But say a feature hit on average every 150 spins.....would you really notice it hitting ie. every 175 spins instead?

If they use random reels then the payout adjustments are done by changing the reel layouts, that is by changing the number of symbols on each reel and their arrangement. I think this is something an experienced slot player might pick up on. If you read the "cracking the MG slots" thread a while back you would get an idea how this works.

 

[Pinababy69]

If they use random reels then the payout adjustments are done by changing the reel layouts, that is by changing the number of symbols on each reel and their arrangement. I think this is something an experienced slot player might pick up on. If you read the "cracking the MG slots" thread a while back you would get an idea how this works.

I did read that thread, albeit a long time ago. I think I have a basic understanding of what it means. So if they removed say one bonus/trigger symbol....that would mean the feature would hit a whole lot less often right? If I remember correctly in the MG thread, a few posters were actually able to map the reels of certain MG slots. I think it was KK, Zoozie...maybe Rusty was involved as well...and Kimss. I think that was the thread where it was determined that the older Video Slots (five reelers) were weighted.

So, in addition to obtaining play logs and tracking your play, can the RTG reels be mapped the same as the MG ones were? Is there anyone with enough interest and time to attempt it? Or are the softwares fundamentally different, and it's not within the realm of possibility? Wouldn't it be nice to have some actual data or evidence to back up all these claims (if it's possible)?

 

[johnsteed]

So, so, so transparent...

***

Conspiracy theories are fine....but data and facts are way better, at least IMO

​

Um, yeah... well, I can clearly see tons of posts written by you that are actual PROOF that those theories aren't fine by your admissions. Keep backpedaling all you want. :notworthy



The amount of times that you use the 'ol - gathering-up names (as a smokescreen) while rounding-up even more cavalry by throwing "Thanked" posts (used as a weapon... not in good spirit) at them in plain view, and then to take a step back from all the turmoil you initially launched, I'm shocked that your word means anything. No "theory" on that one, because there's years of proof to support how you aren't okay with people's "theories". Data, it's all there in the sites memory banks. Were you an affiliate, or not... because there are tons of contradicting posts submitted by none other than you.



Funny that you started all of this by launching into others, because they weren't happy that another member had won (even though he really started it by rubbing their noses in it). Gee, I can think back to the WinnerScreenshots thread not long ago - when you stooped-down from your pedestal that only deals with industry issues because you couldn't be bothered with the WinnerScreenshots thread - and after someone posted a screen-shot of their win at a PlayTech site, you went on your "you'll be lucky if you get paid" wake-up call. Nice...



Odd how one who boasts about her strength by tackling the issues everyone else dare not deal with, can never do it by herself. Always campaigning. ALWAYS campaigning...



Oh yeah, just my 2 cents





Steed


***

 

[Pinababy69]

Honestly Mr. Steed...no idea what your problem is and honestly I don't care. If what I write bothers you so much, there's always that ignore button. I stand behind every post I've ever made, and am not ashamed of any of them.

FTR, I was an affiliate about five or six years ago...all affiliate accounts have long since been closed/deactivated and none of them have earned a penny in years. As to the rest of your post, I can't be bothered...you obviously have a problem. You deal with it...I'm not interested, thanks.

Maybe we can get back to the thread topic now?

 

[4 of a kind]

Las Vegas, and all the other mega land based casinos were not built or operate paying winners. Why should online casinos be any different.

Without hitting a life changing lottery, or jackpot, 95% of us who love to gamble will just keep helping them get bigger and bigger.

I do understand the effort and need to reveal unnecessary greedy crooks in the industry, especially since they already can't lose right out of the gate.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Proof ain't easy in the kiss up, kick down industry of gaming.

 

[binshakindown]

It is good to see RTG wins

since I have played at RTG, I have never cashed out. But not cashing out is my own way of trying for the big win. If I use bonuses to get my deposit to a sizable amount, this gives me a little more playing power. So my goal is to get my playing pot up as high as I can get it. Funny I know. Even when I had won up to $3500, I kept playing because I really wanted to cashout $100,000. I know this is unlikely to ever happen, but that is the way I look at gambling....a very unlikely outcome.

I have to say that I like seeing the opinions posted in this forum, such as the one posted by the OP. It is a sort of balancing act in the world of unlikely outcomes. Just my opinion, however.

 

[Pinababy69]

Proof ain't easy in the kiss up, kick down industry of gaming.

Very true Nash...and sometimes even when you get the "proof", it still isn't enough, and makes no difference. It can be discouraging, to say the least.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note

Okay - let's keep the personal stuff limited to PMs, emails, whatever. Thanks!

 

[Rusty]

Very surprised at the nature of John Steeds comments.
I think he is right about the reason the OP has been receiving so much attention though.

We all have our own personal views and beliefs but we generally come to respect the views of other long standing members even if we do not agree with them because we can see how genuine they are in those beliefs.
As such their opinions, claims and statements are given more credence because they have earned a little respect by proving over time they operate in the same way.
A statement in the absolute obvious but sometimes we can not see the wood for the trees.

The OP should understand you have to earn the trust and respect of a forum before you can expect them to take every word you say as gospel.
Making snide comments and being confrontational with your First few posts, especially with a subject as controversial as this, is not smart.
To then try and take the moral high ground is just plain hypocritical.

Another problem is that the OP seems to be coming into the discussion a couple of Years too late.
Some things they consider to be conspiracy theory have long been established as true and if they take a little time to read the forum before jumping in they will see many threads pertaining to this fact.

The only debate is how fair software is that can have the theoretical return changed without the players knowledge.
I include all software here too not just RTG.

It has been common practice for Years to have slots operate in the way they do and it is much the same as land based slots.
They are not rigged, they retain a random element but they are open - and indeed designed - to have a control element that can be manipulated to alter return.
This is quite a problem for the player of remote slots because they can be manipulated in real time.
Not only this but there is basically no regulation to keep greedy operators/software in check.

Think of it this way.
You are selling a product for 85c and selling 1000 a Week = $850
what you want to know as a business man is what will happen to your sales if you charge 90c per Week.
Now as long as you sell more than 945 units you will be making more profit (945*90c = $850.5) but you have decreased your customer base.

The beauty of being an online slot operator is that you charge more (sometimes much more/say 85% RTP) for your product without the customer even realising.
What happens if your customers get a sniff something is wrong?
Simple set the price of your product back to the price it was selling well at.
It's a win win situation for the Casino and software provider.

The reason I go into such analogies is because it pains me to see such ill thought out arguments about why slots are not weighted or payouts are maintained at 97%
It is moronic actually and that is why the argument if you don't like don't play also hits a snag.

I agree with it to a point but the problem is you never quite know what you are going to be playing. 99% slots 85% slots?
I like to gamble but I like to know the odds - I don't like to gamble with my gamble.

Final observation. (phew - sorry - again)

Because a decent size of the total return is made up from feature wins then this is the most obvious place to look for changes in the return.
If this is the case here are a few things you should look for.

You should find that when you are playing the lower return versions that scatter symbols appear much less often and when they do (because of how the software is manipulated) they will probably appear on the first Two reels without a trigger( This gives the illusion that you were close) or the final Two reels.

You should also find that when you do trigger bonus rounds they pay from below expectation to average. (this should tie in with fewer features)

Finally you should also find that retriggers become very unlikely.

That is all.

 

[funeral979]

***

​

Um, yeah... well, I can clearly see tons of posts written by you that are actual PROOF that those theories aren't fine by your admissions. Keep backpedaling all you want. :notworthy



The amount of times that you use the 'ol - gathering-up names (as a smokescreen) while rounding-up even more cavalry by throwing "Thanked" posts (used as a weapon... not in good spirit) at them in plain view, and then to take a step back from all the turmoil you initially launched, I'm shocked that your word means anything. No "theory" on that one, because there's years of proof to support how you aren't okay with people's "theories". Data, it's all there in the sites memory banks. Were you an affiliate, or not... because there are tons of contradicting posts submitted by none other than you.



Funny that you started all of this by launching into others, because they weren't happy that another member had won (even though he really started it by rubbing their noses in it). Gee, I can think back to the WinnerScreenshots thread not long ago - when you stooped-down from your pedestal that only deals with industry issues because you couldn't be bothered with the WinnerScreenshots thread - and after someone posted a screen-shot of their win at a PlayTech site, you went on your "you'll be lucky if you get paid" wake-up call. Nice...



Odd how one who boasts about her strength by tackling the issues everyone else dare not deal with, can never do it by herself. Always campaigning. ALWAYS campaigning...



Oh yeah, just my 2 cents





Steed


***

Sorry to derail but I could not have said it better myself. I think this is one of the most relevant posts I have seen in quite some time. Senior posters bullying/belittling others simply for attention........and to increase each others reputation points. This seriously takes away from the diversity of the forum....and one of the reasons I don't post very often. If someone spun a slot 10 times and didn't get a win, and they cry conspiracy theoery, SO WHAT? MORE POWER TO THEM! If anything its a form of therapy for them. Sorry for the rant but some people need to get off their soapboxes

 

[Pinababy69]

Outstanding post as usual Rusty.

I may not always agree 100% with your views on this stuff...but I do respect your knowledge of how it all works, and your passion for fairness. Like I've said before, we are definitely on the same side, just go about things a little bit different sometimes. I wish I had the knowledge that you do about these things...but I don't, so thank you for once again trying to explain it in layman's terms. I like your analogies.

The only debate is how fair software is that can have the theoretical return changed without the players knowledge.
I include all software here too not just RTG.

I agree with it to a point but the problem is you never quite know what you are going to be playing. 99% slots 85% slots?

I like to gamble but I like to know the odds - I don't like to gamble with my gamble.

Final observation. (phew - sorry - again)

Because a decent size of the total return is made up from feature wins then this is the most obvious place to look for changes in the return.
If this is the case here are a few things you should look for.

You should find that when you are playing the lower return versions that scatter symbols appear much less often and when they do (because of how the software is manipulated) they will probably appear on the first Two reels without a trigger( This gives the illusion that you were close) or the final Two reels.

You should also find that when you do trigger bonus rounds they pay from below expectation to average. (this should tie in with fewer features)

Finally you should also find that retriggers become very unlikely.

That is all.

I highlighted the above part because that's really what it comes down to for me. It's a given that there are three payout percentages for RTG slots...but as you stated, how do you know on any given day which payout you're getting? And you have somewhat explained how reel manipulation could figure into that as well ie. frequency of bonus rounds, etc.

So I guess my last question for you would be......would a change from 97% or higher down to say 91 or 92%, produce a "noticeable" difference for the average player? Or would the more noticeable changes come solely through reel manipulation ie. removal of symbols, etc? Okay, a two part question.

Sadly, again as you already stated.....without some REAL form of regulation, so much of this is just up in the air. I still think playlogs would be a start. If enough data were gathered, surely it would show something?

 

[Pinababy69]

Sorry to derail but I could not have said it better myself. I think this is one of the most relevant posts I have seen in quite some time. Senior posters bullying/belittling others simply for attention........and to increase each others reputation points. This seriously takes away from the diversity of the forum....and one of the reasons I don't post very often. If someone spun a slot 10 times and didn't get a win, and they cry conspiracy theoery, SO WHAT? MORE POWER TO THEM! If anything its a form of therapy for them. Sorry for the rant but some people need to get off their soapboxes

Sorry, but if you spin a slot 10 times and lose, and feel the need to come here and whine about it.....I hardly think I'm the one with the problem. And it would be a post like that, which would "dilute" the effectiveness of the forum. I can see a newbie coming here, starting a thread entitled "Inetbet are Crooks", and making a post saying they deposited $10, took ten $1 spins and lost....and then crying rigged. Yeah, very effective and oh so fair to the casino...right?

Funny how people who have no idea make claims like the one above...that I abuse the thanking system. That's pretty laughable, seeing as at least two years ago or more, I actually told Bryan that I thought the whole thing should be removed from the forum....period. I hated it then, and I hate it now. Let people be judged on their posts alone..how's that? Works for me.

Wouldn't it be alot easier for all you bitter people who hate me so much to start a Social Group? You can call it whatever you like......Evil Bitch Pinababy Haters Club. Feel free, knock yourselves out.

And now....can we get back to the topic of the thread?

 

[LaurieJim]

Tooooooo many fine posters at odds over a thread just isnt worth it imo, but then again thats what makes for a great debate......................so what are we debating again ?...............laurie

 

[Rusty]

Outstanding post as usual Rusty.

I may not always agree 100% with your views on this stuff...but I do respect your knowledge of how it all works, and your passion for fairness. Like I've said before, we are definitely on the same side, just go about things a little bit different sometimes. I wish I had the knowledge that you do about these things...but I don't, so thank you for once again trying to explain it in layman's terms. I like your analogies.



I highlighted the above part because that's really what it comes down to for me. It's a given that there are three payout percentages for RTG slots...but as you stated, how do you know on any given day which payout you're getting? And you have somewhat explained how reel manipulation could figure into that as well ie. frequency of bonus rounds, etc.

So I guess my last question for you would be......would a change from 97% or higher down to say 91 or 92%, produce a "noticeable" difference for the average player? Or would the more noticeable changes come solely through reel manipulation ie. removal of symbols, etc? Okay, a two part question.

Sadly, again as you already stated.....without some REAL form of regulation, so much of this is just up in the air. I still think playlogs would be a start. If enough data were gathered, surely it would show something?

Well I maintain that playlogs do indeed show something. manufactured streaks.
If anyone wants to prove this here is what to do.
Take One Million game samples of the same slot. (flat betting)
Plot a graph for return percentage (say every 200 spins for high definition)
Plot a graph for feature frequency.
Plot a graph for retrigger frequency.
Plot a graph for feature return (multiple bet)

Now find out what the reel layout is of that slot for 97% return version.
Write a small program that emulates 1 million spins with a genuine RNG.
Plot the same graphs.
Overlap the graphs and check for obvious discrepancies.

That is what it takes to emphatically prove it but who has the time or resources to do that?
You could do it with a smaller sample size say 20,000 spins or even smaller if you had enough samples.
Would there be discrepancies between the Two sample types?
You bet your sweet ass there would!
but I think we can just use common sense and apply the knowledge we already have about how the software operates to understand this.

We certainly do not agree with each other 100% (we are disagreeing now ) but personally I do not believe the criticisms of you here are valid.
Still everyone sees things differently and who said we all have to get along and have the same opinions of each other?

I have had plenty of arguments here - some pretty heated and sometimes they naturally become personal in the heat of battle but ultimately they are just opinions even if the language can become emotive.
That is what the mods are for me thinks.

As for the comments about the use of the Thanks button I am sure we all use it differently.
It seems petty to worry about who thanks who and why and when.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

This is quite a problem for the player of remote slots because they can be manipulated in real time.Not only this but there is basically no regulation to keep greedy operators/software in check.

"REAL TIME" ,if true I would not be shocked. A little different but similar take that I am convinced of is software is correlated (if,then) or better said, we are not just dealing with a quasi-random number generator.

That said, the business model of onlines somehow still has given me ample opportunity to end up on the positive side of expectation. I emphasize "opportunity" which is not the equivalent of my actual results as they relate to expectation. The model!!

Regulation, better left for another time but the term is definitely misconstrued imho.

 

[Pinababy69]

Tooooooo many fine posters at odds over a thread just isnt worth it imo, but then again thats what makes for a great debate......................so what are we debating again ?...............laurie

Laurie, if that's what floats their boat...more power to them. Anyone who really knows me, knows that I couldn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of me....with the exception of those people whose opinions I actually respect. I just think it would be better if they all gathered in one spot, rather than disrupt a decent thread/discussion.

Well I maintain that playlogs do indeed show something. manufactured streaks.
If anyone wants to prove this here is what to do.
Take One Million game samples of the same slot. (flat betting)
Plot a graph for return percentage (say every 200 spins for high definition)
Plot a graph for feature frequency.
Plot a graph for retrigger frequency.
Plot a graph for feature return (multiple bet)

Now find out what the reel layout is of that slot for 97% return version.
Write a small program that emulates 1 million spins with a genuine RNG.
Plot the same graphs.
Overlap the graphs and check for obvious discrepancies.

That is what it takes to emphatically prove it but who has the time or resources to do that?
You could do it with a smaller sample size say 20,000 spins or even smaller if you had enough samples.
Would there be discrepancies between the Two sample types?
You bet your sweet ass there would!
but I think we can just use common sense and apply the knowledge we already have about how the software operates to understand this.

We certainly do not agree with each other 100% (we are disagreeing now ) but personally I do not believe the criticisms of you here are valid.
Still everyone sees things differently and who said we all have to get along and have the same opinions of each other?

I have had plenty of arguments here - some pretty heated and sometimes they naturally become personal in the heat of battle but ultimately they are just opinions even if the language can become emotive.
That is what the mods are for me thinks.

As for the comments about the use of the Thanks button I am sure we all use it differently.
It seems petty to worry about who thanks who and why and when.

Re: plotting the graphs....now that's interesting Rusty. Given most casinos assertion that fun mode and real mode are the same....would it work in fun mode...or do you believe that fun play doesn't run off the same RNG? Would the 1M spins have to be taken all in one continuous session...or could it be spead out over various sessions? And I'm assuming all on one game right?

A sample of 20K spins is definitely doable IMO, and you've given me something to think about, dependent on the detailed logistics of it. I'm afraid I'd be calling for help when it came to "plotting" time though, lol. If it's any more difficult than typing a document in MS Word, I'm out of my league. But I like the sounds of it, and would love to see some results.

Thanks for the vote of confidence....but no worries. All that other shit is irrelevant, to say the least.

 

[Pinababy69]

"REAL TIME" ,if true I would not shocked. A little different but similar take that I am convinced of is software is correlated (if,then) or better said, we are not just dealing with a quasi-random number generator.

That said, the business model of onlines somehow still has given me ample opportunity to end up on the positive side of expectation. I emphasize "opportunity" which is not the equivalent of my actual results as they relate to expectation. The model!!

Regulation, better left for another time but the term is definitely misconstrued imho.

I missed the part of Rusty's post re: real time manipulation. Changing payouts on a schedule is one thing....but changing them on the fly...now that's a scary thought. You actually believe that mid session, they can actually change the payout to the particular game that you're playing? Or manipulate the game itself?

Positive side of expectation Nash? Ha....that's just the horseshoe you had surgically implanted "up there". Removal can be a bitch I hear.

 

[maxd]

I see more than one person in this thread behaving badly.

Thread closed.