Roulette69 issue - PAB rejected - player upset

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If the OP deposited and won with his own money (Without a bonus). And the funds are not stolen. The casino should pay. They can close his account if they feel like it. But if the OP would have lost. Chances are they would have kept his deposit. I've seen underage people in real casinos and get kicked out. But they were paid in full cash if they had chips. Unless the OP committed fraud using funds, then I don't see why the OP shouldn't get his money. If they gonna say the OP had multiple accounts. That's still no reason to deny payment on 100% cash deposit

Im sorry but i have to disagree. Almost every casino has it in black and white that multiple accounts is a no no and vialates there t&c and winnings will be void if found.
 
Im sorry but i have to disagree. Almost every casino has it in black and white that multiple accounts is a no no and vialates there t&c and winnings will be void if found.

True. But people open up multiple accounts for a number of reasons. The main reason is to get signup bonus. The OP stated he busted out of the bonus and deposit with his own funds. If the casino accepts a bet. Then the casino should pay the winnings. Let's say the OP has 10 multiple accounts. The casino should refund every one of those accounts. But they arent because they accepted the bet and the OP lost. As long as the OP was opening accounts and losing. The casino was accepting the bets and could care less about the number of accounts. If they did, they would have put a detection ahead of him opening an account. But when it was the casino time to pay the piper. They wanted to check their records. If though they may or may not caught the OP doing his cashout. I am willing to bet if the OP would turn around and open another account at the same casino. They would accept the bet and if lost. Nothing would be said!
 
I don't know what u mean here? are u saying you did have multiple accounts?

And in the casino's eyes yes this makes u a fraud/bomus abuser.

If so this is almost against every casino's t&c with some exeptions.

Cheers matt,

Let me get this straight. I DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS. I'm just saying even if someone did, it's wrong to call them a 'fraud', you are not a criminal until it is proven in a court of law.
 
Are you certain about that Vinyl? Personally I think you are wrong here. I may be wrong as well but if Bryan were not making any money off of his affiliate banners he has listed here then he would also need no affiliate tags attached to them as well, don't you think. I do agree with you though that the site takes paid advertising from accredited casinos in order to be listed there in the "Accredited Casino List Section".

It would be nice for Bryan to clear this controversial issue up once and for all as there has been way too much speculation on it over the years that continues to pop up several times each year but we are all still left without the true answer. Personally I see no reason at all for any secrecy regarding this.

I have stated in many posts that I too would charge the accredited casinos a listing fee for the exclusive exposure they are guaranteed by being listed on the "Accredited List" but for you to imply that Bryan makes no money as an affiliate is absurd IMO.
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No man can serve two masters.
 
True. But people open up multiple accounts for a number of reasons. The main reason is to get signup bonus. The OP stated he busted out of the bonus and deposit with his own funds. If the casino accepts a bet. Then the casino should pay the winnings. Let's say the OP has 10 multiple accounts. The casino should refund every one of those accounts. But they arent because they accepted the bet and the OP lost. As long as the OP was opening accounts and losing. The casino was accepting the bets and could care less about the number of accounts. If they did, they would have put a detection ahead of him opening an account. But when it was the casino time to pay the piper. They wanted to check their records. If though they may or may not caught the OP doing his cashout. I am willing to bet if the OP would turn around and open another account at the same casino. They would accept the bet and if lost. Nothing would be said!
If the OP had read the T & C and that goes with any casino. Having multiple accounts will result in your account closing and deposits being returned.
 
Everything is exactly as it has happened in my posts.
If Max has some more details of what i have supposedly done wrong, then I look forward to seeing it.
 
my apology

Let me get this straight. I DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS. I'm just saying even if someone did, it's wrong to call them a 'fraud', you are not a criminal until it is proven in a court of law.

Sorry the way i read it i thought u were saying that thats what had happened. I guess no ones going to find out the true story apart the op max and the casino.

I haven't Been playing online casino's for very long.But i have done alot of reading since i started both here and other forums.

the thing that bugs me is the fact that casino's can do what they please to someones account. to a newbie this is quite scary.

Why can't casino's be upfront and honest as to why a player was a:bonus banned b: account locked and winnings forfeited etc etc

Im sure theres alot of honest genuine players that these things happen to by making an honest mistake. If this was then explained to the customer what they had done in FULL detail then these problems wouldn't arise so much nor happen again with said customer. Not to mention if t&c where written clearly so every average joe understands them.

Of course theres fraudsters and bonus abusers and they deserve everything they get.


On another note i never got the 1 account per computer, household etc. i know its there to prevent fraud but common sense would tell anyone more than one adult could be living in a household.( wouldnt be hard to i.d more than 1 person in a household) Imagine if you walked into a casino etc with your partner and they said sorry sir only one of u may come in.

cheers matt.

sorry for rambling works a little boring :p
 
I have not been a member here long but just my 2 cents.

Who gives a rats nannies if they are making money from being an affiliate or from advertising. This website does more for the casino players as a hole, i mean seriously bryan lets all you other webmasters and affiliates be known to us other users and have your websites listed here. NOT to mention all the bullshit affiliates out there who do crap for the people that sign up thru there websites let alone advertise rougue casino's willingly. Also who do you think pays for he pabs etc :p and if maxd or bryan where to be biased towards any casino here im sure it would be noticed in a heart beat and this place would be deserted.



Cheers
matt
 
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I have not been a member here long but just my 2 cents.

Who gives a rats nannies if they are making money from being an affiliate or from advertising. This website does more for the casino players as a hole, i mean seriously bryan lets all you other webmasters and affiliates be known to us other users and have your websites listed here. NOT to mention all the bullshit affiliates out there who do crap for the people that sign up thru there websites let alone advertise rougue casino's willingly. Also who do you think pays for he pabs etc :p and if maxd or bryan where to be biased towards any casino here im sure it would be noticed in a heart beat and this place would be deserted.

this was not a go at you robwin as i seen a few people mention this i just used your post for my reply. it was easier to quote.

Cheers
matt

I totally agree with you Matt, Bryan certainly deserves all he makes from his site here. I just wish that he would either make a post or add this info to the site somewhere, to where it will finally be crystal clear once and for all for everyone to see, and clear up any and all mis-conceptions on whether he makes money as an affiliate or not or just from strictly accepting advertising dollars from casinos that want to be listed here or both.

This type of info should not be skewered in anyway IMO. I'm a webmaster/affiliate and I make money from both CPA deals and Rev Share from my affiliate links and banners on my site. It's not any big secret that most affiliates/casino webmasters make their income this way. So I really don't know why Bryan has never just clarified this issue before and then when some new member joins the forum here then they too would be clearly informed as to Bryan's affiliate connections, one way or the other. No room for any mis-conception or mis-understanding that way.

Some webmasters do media buy deals as well with casino affiliate programs.

It's certainly not rocket science..:D:thumbsup:
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:eek:
I have not been a member here long but just my 2 cents.

Who gives a rats nannies if they are making money from being an affiliate or from advertising. This website does more for the casino players as a hole, i mean seriously bryan lets all you other webmasters and affiliates be known to us other users and have your websites listed here. NOT to mention all the bullshit affiliates out there who do crap for the people that sign up thru there websites let alone advertise rougue casino's willingly. Also who do you think pays for he pabs etc :p and if maxd or bryan where to be biased towards any casino here im sure it would be noticed in a heart beat and this place would be deserted.



Cheers
matt

YEP! Who gives a rats nannies. If my congressman is getting money for X company, Y company, and Z company as long as he still serves the public. Makes one wonder why the public didn't want the health care plan. But Congress passed it anyways. I guess XYZ has more pull then US. Not saying my congressman don't serve us at times. Just sometimes he has to serve XYZ also.
 
In my experience, when a PAB or complaint is rejected due to alleged fraud it usually turns out to be justified.

Ive also found that the complainant tries to deflect attention away from what they probably did by getting stuck into Bryan, Max, the Casino, and anyone else who gets in the way.

Where there is smoke their is almost always fire.

Of course, Im also open-minded enough to believe there is a first time for everything.

P.S. Ive played numerous times at R69 with and without bonuses, with big and small bets, and big and small deposits and WON - and was paid every time most promptly. So what is the difference between you and I ???
 
In my experience, when a PAB or complaint is rejected due to alleged fraud it usually turns out to be justified.

Ive also found that the complainant tries to deflect attention away from what they probably did by getting stuck into Bryan, Max, the Casino, and anyone else who gets in the way.

Where there is smoke their is almost always fire.

Of course, Im also open-minded enough to believe there is a first time for everything.

P.S. Ive played numerous times at R69 with and without bonuses, with big and small bets, and big and small deposits and WON - and was paid every time most promptly. So what is the difference between you and I ???

Sorry, I shouldn't come accross as having a go at Bryan and Max so much, just that I don't like being called a fraudster and being barred from telling the public about my experience.

Maybe the difference between us is that I got lucky enough to win quite big quite early on, so they weren't 100% sure if they would recoup the money from me later on, whereas with you maybe it's different.

I just want the public to decide and see what goes on behind the scences with some of these places. I've presented everything I know of the situation, If I've done bad, then please let me know what it is. I'm being honest when I say I don't have duplicate accounts.... and I don't see what advantage I could have had by having them either, seeing as I'm just playing their slots.
 
Seem like you not going to get your winning. You are lucky you even got all of your deposit back. Just be thankful and move on.
 
Maybe the difference between us is that I got lucky enough to win quite big quite early on, so they weren't 100% sure if they would recoup the money from me later on, whereas with you maybe it's different.

As I recall, I cashed out about $1000 from a $50 deposit on the signup bonus- so they didnt really know if I would be back, but they paid me nonetheless. No problems at all.

One thing I CAN gaurantee is that Max and Bryan will ALWAYS treat each PAB fairly and take the players' claim at face value, until such time as evidence appears to the contrary.

If Max banned you for a fraudulent claim, then I would have to say there must be something you're not telling us.....and maybe you know that Max can't tell us for security reasons (i.e. it may reveal how the casinos detect fraud etc)....so he cant really provide all the necessary evidence.

I can't remember a member being re-instated after being banned for a dodgy PAB with a "sorry we got it all wrong" from CM. Why? Because CM doesnt take this decision lightly and he must have been VERY sure of what happened.

If you ARE telling the FULL story, and you are proven right and your membership is re-instated, I will donate $50 to your favorite charity.
 
We're going off at something of a tangent here, and in any case I seem to recall that Bryan has in the past made it clear that the bulk of his income from this website is from 'real estate' as opposed to affiliate deal advertising.

But I'll leave that to him to address.

Back on topic. If there's one thing I've learned from many years of frequenting Casinomeister, it's that the PAB system is honest and it works. For both sides, because balance is what this site is all about.

Operators will not divulge publicly the anti-fraud measures they take against online gamblers because they believe - rightly or wrongly - that this merely educates fraudsters in how to get around them.

That means that a trusted person like Bryan acting as an intermediary (and that sort of independent integrity takes years to build up) is given the facts and confirms whether the operator was within his rights to take the action complained about.

If it isn't, you can be sure that Casinomeister will speak out, and it would be unwise for any operator to persist if CM opined that he was being unfair.

Regrettably, there are a helluva lot of fraudulent folks out there, and oft-times there is a genuine case for stopping their nonsense.

Unfortunately, this free [PAB] public service that Casinomeister renders also lays Bryan and Max open to the sort of attacks we see in this thread, because, as we have seen here frequently, there are those fraudsters who will persevere despite being caught out.

I know who I would rather trust.
 
I am really intrigued by this.

Can't wait for Max or Bryan's response.

I'd love to know the full story of this one.

Is the OP telling the whole truth????
 
I personally dont think it is any of our biz to know how an what Bryan makes his living by be it affilates buying banners shipping beer selling his autograph
thats his info dont know why it keeps being brought up its a great site every one gets to say nearly pretty much what they want so let it be

Cindy:)
 
I'm sure Max has all the relevant details and made the call he thought was correct.

I do, however, want to point out one thing - if the winnings were made off that last deposit, without a bonus - then it is completely irrelevant whether or not the person is linked to other accounts because he/she gained no advantage by making a deposit without receiving a bonus.

If this is the case, then in my lowly opinion the player should be paid.
 
I'm sure Max has all the relevant details and made the call he thought was correct.

I do, however, want to point out one thing - if the winnings were made off that last deposit, without a bonus - then it is completely irrelevant whether or not the person is linked to other accounts because he/she gained no advantage by making a deposit without receiving a bonus.

If this is the case, then in my lowly opinion the player should be paid.

I can see that point Spear, but the question to be answered first is the whole 'chicken or the egg' thing. If they opened another account, or claimed first deposit bonuses on a computer or site etc where someone else has claimed a bonus BEFORE they made other deposits, then the account is effectively fraudulent before any subsequent deposits are made so there couldnt actually be any legitimate winnings beyond the first deposit. In other words, the 'fruit of the poisonous tree' if you like.

If casinos asked for docs upon the first deposit, then these situations could be avoided and its good to see that some are starting to do this.

At least R69 refunded the deposits, which some operators wouldn't.

I would be surprised if more information doesnt come to light in the near future.....
 
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