Roulette69 issue - PAB rejected - player upset

[Casinomeister]

Going back to the term fraud. Seriously those who accuse anyone of fraud, often misused tho, should put up the evidence or stay quiet. Use cheater or some other term instead. Not directly related to this issue.

And the player really cant do anything more as the casino is licensed in Malta, it could aswell be licensed in North Korea. And the software providers never has given a shit what happens with their licensees.

Sorry, but you are deflating or deflecting the issue. I'm not going to get caught up in terminology here - but this player is a liar. He lied to Max, to the casino, to me and to the entire membership of this forum.

I have the email exchange from the casino and player when the casino asked him if he knew anybody, any relative or friend or acquaintance that may have a casino account which could explain some of the connections between the player and others.

Here is the player's response (my bolding):

I have asked around friends/family if they have played there and no one ever plays any online casinos, let alone your one.

But oh my! After his failed PAB, he just happens to access his "friend's" account here in the forum (who was inquiring about Roulette69 btw) and starts going apeshit. What an amazing and convenient coincidence!

I may be a lot of things, but stupid I ain't.

And this person posts all of this bullshit in the wee hours (he knows we're nearly in the same time zone), and doesn't have the gall to come back and explain these things.

Sure, I'll refrain from calling this guy a fraudster, if that will defuse the issue of nomenclature. I'll just call him a chicken-shit liar instead

 

[spearmaster]

It looks to me like there's a lot more to the story and this is the basis upon which Max and Bryan made their decision and I'm sure it was carefully considered.

However - I will stand by the point I made - a deposit made without bonus cannot in any way be construed as fraudulent because no advantage was gained. Irrelevant if he/she is part of a ring, irrelevant if it's just coincidence, irrelevant if it was an honest mistake. No advantage was or could be gained by the player.

So if this is the only reason why the casino didn't pay, it's not valid. If there are other reasons, fine - and I again believe that Max and Bryan have more facts in front of them than the OP has posted in this thread - so now it's up to the OP to prove that he/she did not breach the rules somehow.

 

[LonelyHearts]

It looks to me like there's a lot more to the story and this is the basis upon which Max and Bryan made their decision and I'm sure it was carefully considered.

However - I will stand by the point I made - a deposit made without bonus cannot in any way be construed as fraudulent because no advantage was gained. Irrelevant if he/she is part of a ring, irrelevant if it's just coincidence, irrelevant if it was an honest mistake. No advantage was or could be gained by the player.

So if this is the only reason why the casino didn't pay, it's not valid. If there are other reasons, fine - and I again believe that Max and Bryan have more facts in front of them than the OP has posted in this thread - so now it's up to the OP to prove that he/she did not breach the rules somehow.

I AGREE 110%

 

[jetset]

Thanks Max!

To the OP: When you lie it makes it hard for people who are pro-players to defend you. I hardly ever side with the casinos. But they gave you every chance in the world to tell the truth. You choose not to. Sorry dude, I was really rooting for you. But when you tells lies to both party. Then sometimes you have to go at it alone.

Certainly as regards Bryan and Max I am personally confident that being 'pro-player' or 'pro-casino' is irrelevant here - it's a question of whether the casino was right in acting against the player, and whether Casinomeister found their decisions reasonable and fair.

As a general observation, compartmentalising oneself as 'pro-player' or anything else runs the risk of weakening your own impartiality and sense of balance imo.

 

[Casinomeister]

...and I again believe that Max and Bryan have more facts in front of them than the OP has posted in this thread - so now it's up to the OP to prove that he/she did not breach the rules somehow.

Well, the OP can prove this elsewhere - it won't happen here. I don't deal with people who BS me, Max, and the entire forum membership.

 

[uungy]

As I recall, I cashed out about $1000 from a $50 deposit on the signup bonus- so they didnt really know if I would be back, but they paid me nonetheless. No problems at all.

One thing I CAN gaurantee is that Max and Bryan will ALWAYS treat each PAB fairly and take the players' claim at face value, until such time as evidence appears to the contrary.

If Max banned you for a fraudulent claim, then I would have to say there must be something you're not telling us.....and maybe you know that Max can't tell us for security reasons (i.e. it may reveal how the casinos detect fraud etc)....so he cant really provide all the necessary evidence.

I can't remember a member being re-instated after being banned for a dodgy PAB with a "sorry we got it all wrong" from CM. Why? Because CM doesnt take this decision lightly and he must have been VERY sure of what happened.

If you ARE telling the FULL story, and you are proven right and your membership is re-instated, I will donate $50 to your favorite charity.

Actually there have been cases in the past, and it was a case a while back (couple years ago), so that isnt true.

We are going around in circles. We are going have to wait until Max posts here and everything will be cleared up. This thread is one-sided and we don't know exactly what happened from Max's point of view.

Evidently there was some fraudulent activity going on and they banned them.

I respect everyone's views here, but its not guilty unless proven inncocent.

I work the other way, however when a casino or anyone gives a reason, which once again has come up "we cannot provide details, for fraudlent and security", if anyone actually believes that, I honestly think you should reconsider your views.

I dont know the whole story, but the OP's side is clear, which sounds like they owe the money. Roulette69, are a reputable place, however that doesnt mean they wont mess up.

If you dont know facts, don't base them on someone else's views, have your own reasonig.

I have yet to hear anyone saying "If the government think we need to pay extra taxes, lets go on and pay as much as they want, they know best", have your own opinion, with a reason, dont just hang onto someone elses opinion, if you dont know the reason. Everyone is human, we cxan all make mistakes

 

[spearmaster]

Well, the OP can prove this elsewhere - it won't happen here. I don't deal with people who BS me, Max, and the entire forum membership.

Oops... did you ban the second account already?

 

[Casinomeister]

Oops... did you ban the second account already?

Yep, I've had enough silly games for the day.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I totally agree with you Matt, Bryan certainly deserves all he makes from his site here. I just wish that he would either make a post or add this info to the site somewhere, to where it will finally be crystal clear once and for all for everyone to see, and clear up any and all mis-conceptions on whether he makes money as an affiliate or not or just from strictly accepting advertising dollars from casinos that want to be listed here or both.
This type of info should not be skewered in anyway IMO. I'm a webmaster/affiliate and I make money from both CPA deals and Rev Share from my affiliate links and banners on my site. It's not any big secret that most affiliates/casino webmasters make their income this way. So I really don't know why Bryan has never just clarified this issue before and then when some new member joins the forum here then they too would be clearly informed as to Bryan's affiliate connections, one way or the other. No room for any mis-conception or mis-understanding that way.

Some webmasters do media buy deals as well with casino affiliate programs.

It's certainly not rocket science..
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Rob, I just wonder if you are basing (and keeping the cat in the bag per se) this on a respected and trusted, loud mouth's casino rep.'s (you know the one who texted Babs the SHILL everyday, sorry POC but I have the posts by Babs the SHILL and the above referenced rep. caused me some ID theft problems which the authorities are well aware of) mouth as he claimed Bryan tried to negoiate an affiliate deal with him but as far as I was told that never worked out. I have no idea if dude's (the spurned rep. at the time as his casino had not yet been accredited) claim is legit and ftr don't give a damn how Bryan's biz model is set up. It is his business as long as potential conflicts of interest are avoided.

P.S.-Disclaimer: I am only on page 4 of this thread!!

 

[KasinoKing]

Seems many people have skipped over this post; these are the questions I would like to hear definitive answers on too:-

This thread is very confusing. On the one hand the op says he won with his own funds playing slots. On the other hand we have the accusation that he is a fraudster by the casino supported by CM. Can we have some clarification please?

a) Did he win playing slots without a bonus?

b) What is the basis of the accusation of fraud?

If he won playing slots without a bonus what kind of fraudulent behavior justifies confiscation of winnings?

People read this forum so they can decide whether or not a casino is safe to play at, and one of the characteristics of rogues is that they will look for any excuse not to pay a big win. Until we get some clarification, how can we know R69 are not rogue?

KK

 

[Nifty29]

I gotta say I still cant believe that some people are still giving the OP credit and insisting he be paid.

Considering WE dont have all the facts, and we arent going to, then it comes down to whether we trust the OP (who has shown they are economical with the truth per CMs post) OR Bryan/Max/PAB process.

C'mon guys, its a no-brainer - surely!! To think anything else implies that Bryan is the one who is full of it and cant be trusted...in that case, what are you doing here??? I wouldnt want to spend my time at the house of someone whom I didnt didnt trust.

I can see why Max and Bryan feel like they shouldnt bother.

 

[Tengil]

The reason why some have some doubts is that the OP played slots without a bonus. Seriously no advantage player, gnomer or "syndicate" (and that is?) would do that.

 

[LonelyHearts]

I gotta say I still cant believe that some people are still giving the OP credit and insisting he be paid.

Considering WE dont have all the facts, and we arent going to, then it comes down to whether we trust the OP (who has shown they are economical with the truth per CMs post) OR Bryan/Max/PAB process.

C'mon guys, its a no-brainer - surely!! To think anything else implies that Bryan is the one who is full of it and cant be trusted...in that case, what are you doing here??? I wouldnt want to spend my time at the house of someone whom I didnt didnt trust.

I can see why Max and Bryan feel like they shouldnt bother.

You have your opinion. And if you don't agree with some of the other people's opinion. You're welcome to stop reading this Thread! I for one would like the answers to those questions also.

 

[uungy]

I gotta say I still cant believe that some people are still giving the OP credit and insisting he be paid.

Considering WE dont have all the facts, and we arent going to, then it comes down to whether we trust the OP (who has shown they are economical with the truth per CMs post) OR Bryan/Max/PAB process.

C'mon guys, its a no-brainer - surely!! To think anything else implies that Bryan is the one who is full of it and cant be trusted...in that case, what are you doing here??? I wouldnt want to spend my time at the house of someone whom I didnt didnt trust.

I can see why Max and Bryan feel like they shouldnt bother.

No one is implying that anyone is reliable or not. I think we have been getting too many of these "we cant disclose etc", and especially there are still many unsanswered questions.

No one is sayinmg the OP isnt a fraud, but where are the answeres, thats all.

Just my 2 cents

 

[jackieonweb]

I don't understand why/how someone can defraud a casino by playing their slots without a bonus? Why would they need multiple accounts?

He said he's got nothing to hide so why can't he/we be told what he has done wrong?

 

[Wildfire7]

This player hasn't exactly helped themselves by posting in this forum.
I am surprised that somebody who purports to work in the legal profession has conducted the matter in the way they have.

A better course of action might have been to continue meaningful dialogue with the powers that be here to get this sorted out. I suspect the primary motive for this person posting here was to get the sympathy vote.

I have seen many forums (non gambling) where things are far less transparent than they are here, so I doubt anything is being hidden. Sometimes on a need to know basis, is there for a reason.

If the player still has issues by all means persue it. There is no need to have a public inquiry over it.

Mike

 

[just play]

Here is the answer to some folks asking this question in a post by Max........

Throughout this entire process the player has asked over and over "show me the evidence, show me the proof". This is the textbook fraudster appeal because that's what they really want. It's far more valuable to know how they got caught than it is to actually seek a resolution to their case. That is why the evidence is not made available to the player and won't be made available to the public. Simply put it would harm the risk assessment efforts at the casino and that's somewhere they do not want to go. We understand that and respect their needs in this regard.

Casinomeister/Max/Casinos cannot share that kind of infomation, I don't understand why some members here cannot understand that?

Imagine if CM/Max/Casino DID share that information? How many frauds would then be commited?

(I bolded it, not Max)

 

[jackieonweb]

Sure that ideology works great. In a dictatorship.

In the real world if you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you need to prove it.

At least tell everyone how is was defrauding the casino by playing slots with no bonus, we're not children we can handle it. this all sounds very strange.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

IMHO it really is very simple...how long do you think a person would last at a casino in Vegas if the casino thought they were part of a syndicate, lieing, cheating, etc.? Who is the advocate for that person and do you think they will get their deposits back as a goodwill gesture? Not in this lifetime and you will be booted out and blacklisted in a heartbeat. Here we have advocates and to trash them IMHO is in VERY poor taste.

 

[jackieonweb]

Well in rain man they told Tom to take his winnings and not to come back

 

[LonelyHearts]

Well in rain man they told Tom to take his winnings and not to come back

I've lived right outside of Biloxi and I've seen countless of people put out. Security walks your over to the money cage. You cashout whatever chips you have. And then they escort you to your car. This old type of Mob way of throwing you out of a casino. Hardly ever exist any more.

 

[RobWin]

Well in rain man they told Tom to take his winnings and not to come back

Ding...Ding...Ding...We have a winner folks!

That is exactly the way it normally does down in real world casinos. You may be 86ed or asked to leave and never come back or maybe even roughed up a little...but the fact is, you will take your winnings with you in the real world...that's a fact that has been proven and proven, time after time.
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[bryand]

It looks to me like there's a lot more to the story and this is the basis upon which Max and Bryan made their decision and I'm sure it was carefully considered.

However - I will stand by the point I made - a deposit made without bonus cannot in any way be construed as fraudulent because no advantage was gained. Irrelevant if he/she is part of a ring, irrelevant if it's just coincidence, irrelevant if it was an honest mistake. No advantage was or could be gained by the player.

So if this is the only reason why the casino didn't pay, it's not valid. If there are other reasons, fine - and I again believe that Max and Bryan have more facts in front of them than the OP has posted in this thread - so now it's up to the OP to prove that he/she did not breach the rules somehow.

Not sure I understand your logic, Spear. If I steal or damage some merchandise in your grocery store today, should I be free to come in tomorrow and buy something outright?

 

[LonelyHearts]

Not sure I understand your logic, Spear. If I steal or damage some merchandise in your grocery store today, should I be free to come in tomorrow and buy something outright?

Your statement makes no sense. We aren't talking about damaging some merchandise. We are talking about someone playing with their "so-called" own money and Winning!

 

[oldtrvlagt]

Ding...Ding...Ding...We have a winner folks!

That is exactly the way it normally does down in real world casinos. You may be 86ed or asked to leave and never come back or maybe even roughed up a little...but the fact is, you will take your winnings with you in the real world...that's a fact that has been proven and proven, time after time.
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Sorry...nothing personal (and I'm not being argumentative) but I want to know which casino is going to give me my winnings after I have been caught cheating? Please ......I'll be right there