Casino Complaint responsible gambling self exclusion fail help needed please

[Nifty29]

However lesser organisations like the ones I stated do,like the Health Lottery and the Gambling Association.

If these state more than the Gamblers Aware-the one which most websites state on their website,then what is the point in stating it at all?

Would you not expect Gamblers Aware to be at least be six months?

Tell you what,lets invite some top,accredited casinos here to say what they appear to be "self exclusion" in terms of minimum months/years.

PS the op NEVER asked for a reason for the self exclusion nor did tirilej know if he/she did-even tirilej said he/she closed his/her account-which he/she didn't at all in any such words,he permanently excluded himself,which upon actual research of the words,as you will know is completely different,so if you're savvy enough to run a casino you should be savvy enough to know when there's an issue if someone asks for a self exclusion without a reason.

I never missed tirilej's point at all-there was a reason for the reply.

On the flip side,for the sake of logic,I will agree that however hard it is for us to prove the last casino did or didn't know of his exclusion from winners casino,its equally as hard to prove he didn't look for a casino associated with winners to try his luck as an excluded player-obviously it would be a win-win situation.

Lose-he shouts "I'm excluded",he wins-he has a chance of being paid.

I'm not so naive to not think of this,I'm just stating what could most likely have played out from the players side-as you Nifty do tend to take the casinos side-no offence meant.

But then again as stated before what is the issue with Winners Casino informing their whole family of his exclusion? Wouldn't it be saving us this discussion?

A circ of IP addy,bank details,address etc.Communication within a family of casinos-thats all it takes.

Chat with 32Red

Me: If I were to request a self exclusion how long is the minimum term for this?

xxxxx: The minimum self exclusion term is 6 months, however if you are just looking to take a few weeks out we do offer a take a break facility to players which means you can close our account from between 1 week and 6 months

Me: Is this due to Gamble Awares guidelines?

xxxxx: we are in partnership with Gamcare and take responsible gaming very seriously so we offer these facilities on order to ensure we do our utmost to have our players gambling responsibly

Admittedly not GA but the standard term seems to be 6 months,"permanent self exclusion" (note the bolded) does not mean a break facility nor 2 months-nevermind 6.

This Winner casino operator must moonlight as an Old Bailey judge.Life sentence-6 months!




The first part of this is a given,anyone with an addiction expects-ie a heroin addict with a needle in his arm expects to get high.Give a gambling addict a debit card what do you expect?

In my eyes Winners casino forced the second into a harsh position via non-communication,he should never have been there in the first place via the self-exclusion he had placed himself!

OP: "Give me permanent exclusion"

Operator: Ok see you in 8 weeks.

Makes sense.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people are happy to reveal their poor comprehension or attention to detail by making ill-informed remarks like "Nifty always/almost always takes the casinos side" blah blah.

It's so old.

Not only that, it is incorrect.

I take the side of what is logical and reasonable, and have a pretty damn good track record. I do NOT take the casino's side automatically.

Your statement (which you felt the need to make in two seperate posts) is even more ill-considered, given that I said in this case that the CASINO was WRONG by voiding the $2000 win. Did you miss that part?

Fact is, I support the player side more often than you think. It's just that it's easier to make it about me and how I "support the casinos" than it is to come up with a logical and reasonable counter-argument.

No offence.

I also have to ask how you know exactly what the OP said to the casino when they asked for self exclusion? You're making a lot of assumptions. I don't see any chats or emails...?? How do you know they asked for "permanent exclusion"?

In fact, the OP asked "....IF I HAD mentioned I had a gambling problem....".....I.e. they obviously did NOT mention any such thing. How do you know that, if the casino had asked if it was a gambling problem, that the OP would have been forthcoming? Compulsive gamblers don't like to burn bridges, at least not until they hit rock bottom or decide its time to stop, and the fact that he DID go back and play again and again suggests he wasn't serious about stopping.

 

[Tirilej]

Obviously the casinos don't know that self excluding always mean that the gambler has a problem. I have closed almost all of my Rival accounts and I remember now why what you are saying PV can be confusing for others than me. This is how it looks when you want to close your account at a Rival casino, and it's all called Self Exclusion.
If I chose to do it permanently I can open the account again as long as the reason isn't that I have a problem with gambling. If it is that then I don't think you can play at any Rival again ever, but I'm not totally sure of that.

 

[P.V.]

Obviously the casinos don't know that self excluding always mean that the gambler has a problem. I have closed almost all of my Rival accounts and I remember now why what you are saying PV can be confusing for others than me. This is how it looks when you want to close your account at a Rival casino, and it's all called Self Exclusion.
If I chose to do it permanently I can open the account again as long as the reason isn't that I have a problem with gambling. If it is that then I don't think you can play at any Rival again ever, but I'm not totally sure of that.

Sure in the header they should reflect Take A Break & Self Exclusion & Close Account.

Freeze account - Just taking a break.

Self Exclusion - I have a problem.

Close my account - I just don't want to play here anymore.

I see what you mean Tirlej, it's confusing, needs clarification.


Define: self-exclusion

This is a means to help an addict recover from a gaming addiction by not allowing him or her to gamble. With self-exclusion, an addict is provided with a way to quit gambling that does not require self-control.

This usually applies to gambling though can be meant for related areas, such as self-exclusion from internet gaming.

 

[chayton]

When I first started gambling online I was opening accounts with every bloody casino I could find. One day I realized that I had accounts at every single Fortune Lounge casino....they had about 9 of them I think, maybe even more! But I only really played at 3 or 4 of them. Anyhow a couple years ago during one of my mad 'simplification' phases, I decided to close all of them except for Royal Vegas which was the one I played the most. When I got on chat I said "Can you please close them all except that one?" and they asked me why and I said that I didn't have enough money to play them all, I didn't have a big enough hard drive to install them all, I didn't want to keep getting all the email promos from the ones I didn't play etc. They told me that they'd lock the accounts for either 6 months or a year I think it was - my choice which one I wanted...but during that time I would NOT be allowed to reopen any of them.

But I continued to play at Royal Vegas, then a year or a couple years later I did reopen Platinum Play too.

Then after CR ate all those casinos I realized that I had about 15 casinos in that group too, I asked in chat to close all except Villento and they just said sure, they didn't ask me why or tell me that it was for any set amount of time or anything, they just closed them.

So obviously each group does things a little differently as far as closing accounts, but I agree with PV that if a player is self-excluding because of a gambling problem, they should be able to do that across the whole network, not just through the group. If someone excludes themselves from any MG because of a gambling problem they should be excluded from EVERY casino running MG software, IMO. Same with RTG, NetEnt, Rival etc.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I also have to ask how you know exactly what the OP said to the casino when they asked for self exclusion? You're making a lot of assumptions. I don't see any chats or emails...?? How do you know they asked for "permanent exclusion"?

By the same token I don't see Winner casino here saying he didn't ask for permanent self exclusion.


And as for the double post...Really?

 

[edw123]

Self exclusion means I need to quit, I have a gambling problem. The other is take a break, which clearly means I need to take a break from your casino for a short period of time. As someone posted 32 Red seems to understand the difference between self exclusion and take a break.

The reason many casinos have a self exclusion option as low as six months is to help the problem gambler to at least stop for six months because many problem gamblers think a year or a permanent ban is too much and they can't handle the thought of doing that so they just continue to gamble. Gambling self exclusion doesn't mean I need to save for Christmas or an upcoming vacation.

I can't comment about the OP's reasoning but I can say IMO the self exclusion system is flawed as the OP has pointed out. Problem gambling is a serious issue and as long as operators are all doing their own thing and not getting connected to a centralized shared system a problem gambler can just wait a day or two for a new casino to launch and start gambling again.

I've studied this area in detail and a problem gambler needs to have one point of contact to self exclude from online gambling sites and when doing so it's total self exclusion from online gambling. it's an addiction and I can pretty much guarantee six months won't fix the problem.

If you're an alcoholic would six months cure you and then be fine to have a few drinks after the six months? I don't think so.

In my discussions within this area, some unethical operators have been known to pray on self excluded players after short exclusions, therefore more the need for total self exclusion.

There are many good help lines for gambling addiction, I don't support the stop gambling software as it's too easy to get online elsewhere to gamble avoiding the software.

OP here's another recent thread with your type complaint here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/edw123-vs-casino-rewards.53315/

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately this is the wrong forum to raise a general query about self exclusion failure as you'll get little sympathy - many members are very opinionated about the subject, and don't acknowledge gambling problems and consider it "not taking responsibility" - this unfortunately is how society deals with problem gambling hence why it is such a ticking time bomb - especially in the UK with the influx of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals.

Having had a similar issue myself, my advice is if you have evidence of a self exclusion failure, raise a Pitch a Bitch, and keep it off the forum.

And use Gamcare in the UK - they are excellent, and if you use their forum, you'll get plenty of suppoort. Definitely helped me, and they even have a freephone helpline.

Good luck!

 

[Nifty29]

By the same token I don't see Winner casino here saying he didn't ask for permanent self exclusion.


And as for the double post...Really?

By the same token, I don't see winner casino posting anything about anything. It's ridiculous to say that he must have specifically said something based purely on the fact that the casino didn't post here specifically to refute that specific statement.....especially given they aren't even participating in the thread.

What double post?

I have no problem debating you, but please don't misrepresent your assumptions as facts.

 

[Nifty29]

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately this is the wrong forum to raise a general query about self exclusion failure as you'll get little sympathy - many members are very opinionated about the subject, and don't acknowledge gambling problems and consider it "not taking responsibility" - this unfortunately is how society deals with problem gambling hence why it is such a ticking time bomb - especially in the UK with the influx of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals.

Having had a similar issue myself, my advice is if you have evidence of a self exclusion failure, raise a Pitch a Bitch, and keep it off the forum.

And use Gamcare in the UK - they are excellent, and if you use their forum, you'll get plenty of suppoort. Definitely helped me, and they even have a freephone helpline.

Good luck!

Actually, recovery from gambling is ALL ABOUT taking personal responsibility. You don't know/accept this, as you are not in recovery, or if you are, you haven't embraced the idea.

As I've said before, and from memory you refused to answer my question, if you made the bet with the expectation of being paid any winnings, and you DID, then claiming you're owed a refund is BOGUS. You lost fair and square.....nobody forced you to gamble. You had enough nouse to download software, open an account, make a deposit, and play.....plenty of chances to stop if you really wanted to.

As long as people like yourself continue to blame everyone else for your flaws, you will never be free of your addiction.

 

[edw123]

Actually, recovery from gambling is ALL ABOUT taking personal responsibility. You don't know/accept this, as you are not in recovery, or if you are, you haven't embraced the idea.

As I've said before, and from memory you refused to answer my question, if you made the bet with the expectation of being paid any winnings, and you DID, then claiming you're owed a refund is BOGUS. You lost fair and square.....nobody forced you to gamble. You had enough nouse to download software, open an account, make a deposit, and play.....plenty of chances to stop if you really wanted to.

As long as people like yourself continue to blame everyone else for your flaws, you will never be free of your addiction.

You are right, recovery from gambling IS about personal responsibility, agreed. But it's about taking the first step. Point is though is that it's about everyone taking responsibility - the gambling establishment as much as the player. Problem gamblers deserve and need support - just like any addiction if individuals are left to their own devices, they'll fail - simple as.

Nobody forces people to gamble, but the addiction is they actually don't have a choice - that's the way it works and that's what an addict is. Often the gamer doesn't WANT to gamble like the alcoholic who dervices no pleasure from a drink but has it anyway.

If an alcoholic wishes to stop, they have to take responsibility and the first step - they go to an AA meeting. After then they need support from friends and family - i.e. don't keep alcohol easy for them to access, don't keep taking them to the pub etc. etc.

Someone self excluding as this guy is IS taking the first step to try and help themselves - what has happened here is the equivalent of taking the first step, only to find the AA meeting is in a pub with a free bar, and they have a drink waiting for you when you go in, then for the next 6 months you are constantly dragged into the pub by everyone you know. You'll fail!

 

[Balthazar]

Obviously the casinos don't know that self excluding always mean that the gambler has a problem. I have closed almost all of my Rival accounts and I remember now why what you are saying PV can be confusing for others than me. This is how it looks when you want to close your account at a Rival casino, and it's all called Self Exclusion.
If I chose to do it permanently I can open the account again as long as the reason isn't that I have a problem with gambling. If it is that then I don't think you can play at any Rival again ever, but I'm not totally sure of that.

I've posted a thread about this before. This feature should be included in every single software.

 

[chuchu59]

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately this is the wrong forum to raise a general query about self exclusion failure as you'll get little sympathy - many members are very opinionated about the subject, and don't acknowledge gambling problems and consider it "not taking responsibility" - this unfortunately is how society deals with problem gambling hence why it is such a ticking time bomb - especially in the UK with the influx of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals.

Having had a similar issue myself, my advice is if you have evidence of a self exclusion failure, raise a Pitch a Bitch, and keep it off the forum.

And use Gamcare in the UK - they are excellent, and if you use their forum, you'll get plenty of suppoort. Definitely helped me, and they even have a freephone helpline.

Good luck!

Most of the members that participate in this forum care a lot for people with gambling problems but when the main focus is on whether 'winnings' should be honoured after self-exclusion is requested or whether there should be refunds when deposits are lost though the casinos 'knew' about the addiction then its a different ball game. We should sympathise with players with gambling problems but not at the expense of punishing casinos who may or may not be at fault. The opening post looks not to be one to simply garner sympathy but one trying to solicit members' support to either vouch for the casino to refund losses or honour winnings. The OP has acknowledged he/she has a serious gambling problem ie savings, overdraft depleted and I think this should be addressed first. Thinking day and night on whether the casino is in the wrong and trying to extract something back is not going to help him/her in the long run. I am pretty sure a person with genuine gambling problems will receive a sympathetic hearing here but when it simply boils down to 'winnings/refunds' then I am sorry to say many of us are hardened people who wont take the player's side so easily and play the 'self-responsibility' card.

 

[edw123]

Most of the members that participate in this forum care a lot for people with gambling problems but when the main focus is on whether 'winnings' should be honoured after self-exclusion is requested or whether there should be refunds when deposits are lost though the casinos 'knew' about the addiction then its a different ball game. We should sympathise with players with gambling problems but not at the expense of punishing casinos who may or may not be at fault. The opening post looks not to be one to simply garner sympathy but one trying to solicit members' support to either vouch for the casino to refund losses or honour winnings. The OP has acknowledged he/she has a serious gambling problem ie savings, overdraft depleted and I think this should be addressed first. Thinking day and night on whether the casino is in the wrong and trying to extract something back is not going to help him/her in the long run. I am pretty sure a person with genuine gambling problems will receive a sympathetic hearing here but when it simply boils down to 'winnings/refunds' then I am sorry to say many of us are hardened people who wont take the player's side so easily and play the 'self-responsibility' card.

Fair point, well made.

Challenge is I guess is everyone who has serious gambling problems is in recovery, and remains in recovery for ever - as I know - and I guess deserve protection and support from any gaming establishment. This has to form part of any recovery.

 

[Tirilej]

Fair point, well made.

Challenge is I guess is everyone who has serious gambling problems is in recovery, and remains in recovery for ever - as I know - and I guess deserve protection and support from any gaming establishment. This has to form part of any recovery.

The player only needs to stay as far away as possibly from any gambing establishment. They need to protect themself.
Like any other addiction. No one but yourself can make you stop. They can hold the bottle to your mouth, but you have to swallow.
Please stop making yourself a victim. No one but you is responsible for your actions.

 

[dionysus]

As nice as a sympathetic ear may be why even come looking here from other gamblers...isn't that rather like a drunk hanging out with more drinks (no offense, after all i drink lol). My point is...close the forum page, you know, with all these winning screenshots and such, and open, say, a book. Turn the whole damn computer off, unplug it, go for a walk

 

[Rhyzz]

Operators have a responsibility to do everything possible to prevent self excluded players from opening new accounts. Generally this relates to any brand covered by their license. However, it is ultimately the responsibility of the player and anything lost prior to the point the account was identified will remain lost.

Sorry OP but I think you need to swallow the losses, realise why you stopped gambling in the first place and try to get back into the good place you were in for the 2 months prior.

I would however make a point of contacting the regulator of the Casino and tell them what has happened, and that you'd like the funds you lost donated to charity. Do not let the operator profit from it!! If it's a reputable jurisdiction then they'll demand the funds be donated to charity.

 

[nisosbar]

I see self-exclusion as kind of like bankruptcy - it's forever, i.e., 7 years. That is, after a period of time (six months, two years, whatever), the self-exclusion should end.

 

[GambleGans]

Most Casinos give a shit about self exclusion.
I have several cases, where I have opened another account after I did self exclude my first one, if you win you just get your deposits back, and if you loose the money is just gone, if things like that dont get detected at registration or deposit you are screwed and its a riskless trade for the casino.

 

[Tirilej]

Most Casinos give a shit about self exclusion.
I have several cases, where I have opened another account after I did self exclude my first one, if you win you just get your deposits back, and if you loose the money is just gone, if things like that dont get detected at registration or deposit you are screwed and its a riskless trade for the casino.

So what do you really want? To be self excluded or not?
You obviously have a problem since you have done it several times. Still you are going back over and over again.
I don't think you can blame any casino for not detecting you immediately. It's your responsibility and noone elses.

If it's a riskless trade for a casino they wouldn't have the option to self exclude in the first place. I see it as if they are taking their responsibility by not letting you win anything.

Next time you decides to quit gambling do it.