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Casino Complaint responsible gambling self exclusion fail help needed please

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by teddybarko, Nov 2, 2012.

    Nov 2, 2012
  1. teddybarko

    teddybarko Dormant account

    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    uk
    Hi all - newbie here with a question..

    Over the last year i have been online gambling really heavy, self excluding from numerous sites ect due to problem gambling.. due to this i have encountered several issues... I opened an account with a allslotsmobilecasino, deposited a few hundred quid and won £2000, i tried to withdraw this and my account got locked & i contacted them to which they responded with... you have previously self excluded from one of our partner sites (wild jack mobile casino) which we are linked to therefore your account has been closed and any deposits you made will be returned to your card & any winnings will be deducted. I felt terrible and cheated after this but in the end i had to accept it as they didnt budge.

    Ever since this i have been really careful on checking who is partnered by who before opening an account, until the other night... I hadn't gambled a penny for 2 months, then got the urge for a game of roulette, so i opened an account with 7Regal who i had never heard of, started depositing and playing, after a few hours i was down over £5000 , savings, overdraft all gone! The next day i went to the 7Regal website to look for a contact email to ask for my account to be self excluded & i noticed that 7Regal is owned and run by Winner Casino.. I remembered having a Winner casino account 2 months back and self excluding myself from them permanently. This has made me believe that i should have not been allowed to open an account with 7Regal and that my deposits should be voided.. so i contacted them and explained, to which they closed my 7Regal account immediately, i heard back from them today and their response was... when i self excluded my Winner casino account i didnt tell them i had a problem with gambling, so on this occasion none of my deposits will be void. I explained to them that self exclusion is put in place to protect problem gamblers but they says many players self exclude for various other reasons.

    Im a genuine guy, not attempting to cheat anyone, but i feel that on both occasions i have been cheated. What do yous think of this? Have i got a case to get my money back from 7Regal or am i fighting a lost cause?

    I know the main problem is myself & i need to have more will power , but im sure a few of yous out there will agree that its easier said than done.
    thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully give me some advice.
     
  2. Nov 2, 2012
  3. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    its probably ethical as used car dealers while some the minority are fair and honest there are more than those that will dig the eye balls out of your head the minute you hit the deck

    my advise to you is to hook up with GA or another approved recovery group [ honestly my heart goes out for you ]

    but this is hard facts of life were chatting about

    may god steer you clear of this demon R C
     
  4. Nov 2, 2012
  5. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    You lost the $5000 fair and square.

    Time to get to your nearest GA meeting, where they will teach you about accepting responsibility for your actions.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Nov 2, 2012
  7. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    .

    I would say you are chasing a lost case.

    You played and lost. Get over it and seek help. Yes, it may be that this casino not should have accepted you a a customer (I am not familiar with the relationship between these casinos), but they did and you decided to play. It is also worth mentioning that casinos in general may have the same owners, but are operated separately.

    Seek help and stay away from casinos and forums like Casinomeister.

    Good luck :thumbsup:
     
  8. Nov 2, 2012
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yes, but then he won 2000 of it back. It seems the rule is different depending on whether you win or lose.

    He lost, but he is responsible and should not get his money back.

    He won, of course the bets should be void and the deposits returned.

    This is simply a risk free gamble for the casino. If winnings are voided if a prior self exclusion is discovered, then so are the losses. To let the casino have it both ways in their favour does not give them any incentive to improve their procedures for blocking problem gamblers right from the outset.


    In any case, Wild Jack was sold by the JF group a couple of years ago, and yet suddenly it is still part of them, WTF is going on:confused:

    Self exclusion should work better than this, and where the casinos are owned by the same group, there should be NO lag between self excluding at one partner casino, and being blocked upon registration at the others.

    They CAN do it, and DO block players within seconds of registering when they have been flagged as frauds or "bonus abusers" at partner casinos. It seems the technologies are there for near instant blocking, it is a reluctance to implement them that causes the problems.
     
    5 people like this.
  10. Nov 2, 2012
  11. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Yes, but they are different groups.....it isn't the same group applying different standards to wins vs losses.

    Personally, my view is that ALL bets in BOTH cases were valid. He should have been paid his $2000 winnings and had his account closed. The casino should have ensured he wasn't able to signup with another related property......but once he did and the bets were made, they were valid and the end result should be honored.

    It's important to note that the methods used to lock out players at signup are limited. In most cases it is email based or IP based, and these can be avoided simply by using a different email or obtaining a new IP.

    The argument about the reason for self exclusion is an interesting one......does the actual reason matter or not? If a player signs up with a related property, is that tacit revocation of their self exclusion request? Regardless, once a bet is placed it should be honored either way.

    IMO, the first casino got it wrong, and the second casino got it right.

    The reason most casinos will not refund losses is obvious. You only need to see the MO of fraudsters exposed here over the years to realise what a pot of gold it would be to every scammer on the net......exclude yourself, find a way to play again and it will be risk-free. It's a very slippery slope.
     
    4 people like this.
  12. Nov 3, 2012
  13. teddybarko

    teddybarko Dormant account

    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    uk
    The reason im struggling to come to terms with their decision is they told me my deposits would have been voided if i told winner casino i had a gambling problem rather that just asking them to self exclude me. Self exclusion to my understanding is for problem gamblers.
     
  14. Nov 3, 2012
  15. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    No not only for them. I ask casinos to close my account from time to time. I don't want to have so many open at once. By closing them I don't recieve any mails and are not tempted to play everywhere. I can ask for a certain time if I want, but mostly by just closing the accounts I can go back again whenever I chose to, just like you did.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Nov 3, 2012
  17. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    Makes you wonder if he had won £5000 would he have been paid? And would he have been reimbursed at the first casino had he lost?
     
  18. Nov 3, 2012
  19. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    He got his deposits back from the first casino, and yes, he would probably have been paid in the second one since he hadn't told them about any gambling problems.
     
  20. Nov 3, 2012
  21. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    I need to read more carefully :D

    As for the bolded part I'm sceptical,nobody will ever know if that casino knew or not about his problem being in connection with another casino he was self excluded from though.

    However I do agree that you should take responsibilty for your own actions,maybe this will be a wake up call to get some help.....?
     
  22. Nov 3, 2012
  23. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    I maybe also have to find out if there is any difference between self exclude and just closing an account:oops:
    I did that at 3Dice thinking I wouldn't play there anymore, but when I wanted to open it again I found out I had to wait for three days. That was a chock:eek2:

    If anyone with a gambling problem really wants to quit and are honest about why, then thats what they want.
    If they don't tell the casino then they haven't made up their mind yet.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Nov 3, 2012
  25. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    But he already stated he had an account at another casino connected with this 7Regal.

    If you asked to be self excluded from 32Red because of a gambling addiction then tried depositing at Dash tomorrow or another of their group wouldn't you expect to be excluded from all of them?

    EDIT: I'm not saying he's right,he made the decision,personally if I lose £1000-nevermind £5000 in one session I'd be bringing up the contents of my last meal.

    Just seems a tad shady where if you win you get your deposits back and we keep your winnings,if you lose,well tough luck.
     
  26. Nov 3, 2012
  27. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    The first two casinos took their responsibility because he had told about his gambling problems when excluded from the first one.

    The other two that were connected winner and 7Regal he had never told why. He just closed his account. That is why I believe he would have been paid if he had won, but they have no reason whatsoever to pay him any deposits back now.

    I hope I haven't mixed everything up. I'm off to bed now:oops:
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 3, 2012
  29. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    But he does state here he self excluded from winner casino 2 months ago.Didn't just close his account.



    Going by terms from Gamble Aware (You must register/login in order to see the link.) "self exclusion" usually means from six months to five years.

    Not 2 months.

    As the op is from the uk I also did a bit of looking on other sections of gambling like the lottery,seeing as GA only said "usually 6 months-5 years",and even the Health lottery and Gambling Commission-amongst others, also have 6 months as their minimum for self exclusion terms so you would think 6 months is the absolute minimum a person can be "permanently self excluded" for from a casino sporting the Gamble Aware symbol at the bottom of their website.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  30. Nov 3, 2012
  31. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    I agree with you totally on this. The fact that the casino was unable to detect the player's self exclusion upon registration is not the player's fault and bets placed are valid which entails in winnings having to be honoured. No refunds on the second case though using the same logic.

    Having said all this it does seem the OP has a serious gambling problem (savings, overdraft depleted) and a halt to gambling is a necessity lest his life be ruined. So this should now be the focus instead of continuously thinking of whether the casinos are cheating him in the 1st case or the 2nd one.
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Nov 3, 2012
  33. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    Is it just me or is there a simple fix to this-where one excludes themselves from one casino yet is still able to play at a sister or family casino (whatever terminology you guys use).

    This being the casino that the player is self-excluded from sends a circular to its entire group of casinos with the IP address,card number,e-wallet details,bank details etc.

    For example had winner casino sent a circular to all its casinos ie 7Regal with all his details this wouldn't have happened would it?

    Unless the so called "self excluded" time had ran out-if true this being 2 months in which case,though they shouldn't be allowed to display the Gamble Aware sign,but bets should stand.
     
  34. Nov 3, 2012
  35. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    It is - read the 3rd line of text after the title:

    Self-exclusion

    Operators must have procedures in place allowing you to self-exclude for a length of time – usually between six months and five years. A customer who has followed the procedure to request self-exclusion should be refused service and prevented from gambling.

    If you think you are spending too much time or money gambling then ask staff for more information about this scheme.

    If you are worried about online gambling then you can download a ‘site blocker’ such as Gamblock or Netnanny, which can block access to on line gambling sites.

    What other reasons are there for that line being there-in that particular place under the words "self exclusion"?

    Coincidence? You have an alcohol problem? Your nan has recently died? You have piles?


    Pretty evident to anyone with half a brain for me.
     
  36. Nov 3, 2012
  37. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    In case you missed what tirilej said......go back a few posts and have a look.

    Some players ask for self exclusion for reasons other than gambling problems, which is why it is important to state clearly that you have a problem with gambling. You will also notice the text you quoted says USUALLY between 6 months and 5 years.....it doesn't state that 6 months is definitely a minimum.

    If both of the ops issues had occured within the same group, then I agree that his $5000 should be refunded, as they had voided his bets in the first case.....HOWEVER the first casino got it wrong (they should not have refunded as bets were accepted....the full win should have been paid), and the second casino got it right in validating the bets.

    The bottom line is that the player placed those bets expecting to be paid in full if they won....hence they must expect to take the losses. It is unreasonable to force the second casino to refund losses just because the first casino made a poor decision.

    I also don't think those who see things differently from you should be described as having less than half a brain.
     
  38. Nov 3, 2012
  39. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    However lesser organisations like the ones I stated do,like the Health Lottery and the Gambling Association.

    If these state more than the Gamblers Aware-the one which most websites state on their website,then what is the point in stating it at all?

    Would you not expect Gamblers Aware to be at least be six months?

    Tell you what,lets invite some top,accredited casinos here to say what they appear to be "self exclusion" in terms of minimum months/years.

    PS the op NEVER asked for a reason for the self exclusion nor did tirilej know if he/she did-even tirilej said he/she closed his/her account-which he/she didn't at all in any such words,he permanently excluded himself,which upon actual research of the words,as you will know is completely different,so if you're savvy enough to run a casino you should be savvy enough to know when there's an issue if someone asks for a self exclusion without a reason.

    I never missed tirilej's point at all-there was a reason for the reply.

    On the flip side,for the sake of logic,I will agree that however hard it is for us to prove the last casino did or didn't know of his exclusion from winners casino,its equally as hard to prove he didn't look for a casino associated with winners to try his luck as an excluded player-obviously it would be a win-win situation.

    Lose-he shouts "I'm excluded",he wins-he has a chance of being paid.

    I'm not so naive to not think of this,I'm just stating what could most likely have played out from the players side-as you Nifty do tend to take the casinos side-no offence meant.

    But then again as stated before what is the issue with Winners Casino informing their whole family of his exclusion? Wouldn't it be saving us this discussion?

    A circ of IP addy,bank details,address etc.Communication within a family of casinos-thats all it takes.

    Chat with 32Red

    Me: If I were to request a self exclusion how long is the minimum term for this?

    xxxxx: The minimum self exclusion term is 6 months, however if you are just looking to take a few weeks out we do offer a take a break facility to players which means you can close our account from between 1 week and 6 months

    Me: Is this due to Gamble Awares guidelines?

    xxxxx: we are in partnership with Gamcare and take responsible gaming very seriously so we offer these facilities on order to ensure we do our utmost to have our players gambling responsibly

    Admittedly not GA but the standard term seems to be 6 months,"permanent self exclusion" (note the bolded) does not mean a break facility nor 2 months-nevermind 6.

    This Winner casino operator must moonlight as an Old Bailey judge.Life sentence-6 months!


    The first part of this is a given,anyone with an addiction expects-ie a heroin addict with a needle in his arm expects to get high.Give a gambling addict a debit card what do you expect?

    In my eyes Winners casino forced the second into a harsh position via non-communication,he should never have been there in the first place via the self-exclusion he had placed himself!

    OP: "Give me permanent exclusion"

    Operator: Ok see you in 8 weeks.

    Makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012

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