[RESOLVED] playersclub refuses to pay 4700 GBP

[maxine]

Mario why don't you just sent this person a check in GBP? This currency issue is a poor lame excuse. You should be ashame of yourself for stooping so low! How can you take this person winnings when they played with no bonus? It doesn't matter what currency it balance out in the end. PAY THIS PERSON MARIO!!! Returning this person deposit isn't going to cut it. This person is OWED WINNINGS!!!

YOU and YOUR WHITE LABEL CASINOS are nothing but TROUBLE MARIO! You are becoming the Oliver's and Cloud's of the industry. People be warned of Playshare. They are hurting because of the US ban and are trying anything to stay afloat. Leave this Character Alone he is NO GOOD!!!

 

[ugaboga]

Excuse me? I have to agree with tntster who says...



BBKPoker, what an outpouring of venom you have subjected not only the OP, but the rest of us to! But you go ahead - never let the facts get in the way of a good old vitriolic rant and rave.

I just hope you never see service on a jury which requires measured and logical thinking....you are so black and white you probably only come across grey when you need to do your washing...

Touch

 

[vinylweatherman]

Since this is such a major issue, how about moving the "wrong currency" clause up to #1 from #15 in the T&C? And putting it in BIG BOLD TEXT. Burying any sort of clause that will cause you to forfeit winnings is just an excuse to screw the player IMO.


But, when you think about it, since the deposit is being returned anyways, WHO WINS? Nobody. The casino is the one that's losing money! Do you think ANY player will re-deposit once they have winnings void? NOT! They lose money both from future deposits as well as the man hours it took to "investigate" this BS.

Moving the term to a prominent position would be the best solution while the software cannot enforce this rule at registration, a shortfall admitted by Mario, but this stopgap solution has already been suggested, read by Mario, but not been implemented as the casino would rather rely on players having the good sense to read all the way down to #15 and see it clearly there, and not breach it.
It seems that this white label issue HAS lead to the group experiencing more problems that other MG casinos. Nowhere else are winnings voided for playing in the wrong currency UNLESS a "bonus abuse" situation was involved. Most casinos will simply refuse players bonuses if they choose to play in a high value currency such as the UK Pound, but will pay out if they play their own funds.
Each time they do this to a player, they have alienated one more customer from the industry. If they put off the "bonus abuser", all well and good, but when they start clobbering casual players as well, the damage starts - these are the people the casinos REALLY want, but more and more they end up with the "bonus abusers", the best of which would NOT have made this fundamental error while trying to abuse a bonus, they would have read ALL the terms and conditions, made sure they understood them, and would have then looked for subtle loopholes that they might get away with, and playing in GBP is hardly "subtle". "Bonus abusers" also have their own forums, where they share information about "loopholes", and playing WITHOUT a bonus simply does not feature, this is not 2006!!!!!!

 

[aka23]

hey casinomeister, how much do playshare pay you to keep them acredited.
They are a ridiculous bunch of mafiosi, wake up!!!
I cannot take these forum serious anymore if they are not taken from the acredited list.
go take a look at some serious casinos like 32red, or intercasino.
Or they do not offer GBP, or they are fine if you play in the currency.
Everything else I cannot take it serious, and I think nobody can, if he has some brain cells left.
and beer is the living proof god and the devil wants us to be happy

I believe there is only 1 Playshare casino on the accredited list, and it is not Player's Club. They may have been accredited in the past when they were with Boss.

 

[BBKPoker]

"BBKPoker, what an outpouring of venom you have subjected not only the OP, but the rest of us to! But you go ahead - never let the facts get in the way of a good old vitriolic rant and rave."


The facts?

He signed up because "why not sign up in GBP, I've been to London and I just like the currency...."

I mean, if you don't think he's an obvious bonus abuser if that's the best he can muster as an excuse, then you are completely clueless as to how bonus abusers operate.

There is literally no legitimate reason for a player who is not from the UK to sign up in rather than their native currency other than they are trying to maximize the amount of the bonus they can receive. Ask any casino rep on here what percent of players who signup using as their currency and are not from the UK are bonus abusers. I don't think you'll find one that thinks it is any less than 80-90%.

And why are you making comments about my laundry? Been digging in my underwear again?

 

[chuchu59]

The lack of a 'valid' reason for playing in GBP does provide a pointer that the player in question was trying to take advantage of the higher value of the GBP to maximise his winnings. While many of us here, including myself, do not agree with the confiscation of winnings, we cannot fault the casino if they do return deposits to all affected players, whether winners or losers. If we were to say that the winners should be paid in GPB, which I personally believe should be in USD, then we should also take the stand that players who lost should not have their deposits returned.

The best way forward now, as highlighted by Winbig, is to make this condition prominent so that unwary players do not fall into the trap.

 

[loganberry]

He signed up because "why not sign up in GBP, I've been to London and I just like the currency...."

I mean, if you don't think he's an obvious bonus abuser if that's the best he can muster as an excuse, then you are completely clueless as to how bonus abusers operate.

Pure speculation on your part relating to the bonus abuser bit. You have decided the OP fits into this category, based so far on very little evidence, other than the fact that the OP decided to play in GBP.

There is literally no legitimate reason for a player who is not from the UK to sign up in rather than their native currency other than they are trying to maximize the amount of the bonus they can receive.

Why not play in a strong currency if it means your winnings are higher? You risk more, but you eventually win more. So please explain exactly what is wrong with that strategy? I always registered my accounts in US$ when it was still alive and kicking. Why? Because I liked the currency! Oh wait...that must mean I am a bonus abuser, even though I never took bonuses.

Ask any casino rep on here what percent of players who signup using as their currency and are not from the UK are bonus abusers. I don't think you'll find one that thinks it is any less than 80-90%.

Pure speculation again, based if anything on hearsay, not on facts. Perhaps you should change your career and become a speculator. You seem to have the right mentality...

What really gets to me about your postings is this utter conviction that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Personally, I have no idea if the OP is a bonus abuser or not, but I try to make my judgement based on the facts which have been presented, not simply construct them out of thin air because I think I know best!

And why are you making comments about my laundry? Been digging in my underwear again?

Yup. Better than digging through your rubbish. And besides, I needed a laugh......

 

[ugaboga]

Why not play in a strong currency if it means your winnings are higher? You risk more, but you eventually win more. So please explain exactly what is wrong with that strategy? I always registered my accounts in US$ when it was still alive and kicking. Why? Because I liked the currency! Oh wait...that must mean I am a bonus abuser, even

Key point in bold.

Works both ways for player and casino. Either you eventually win more or you eventually lose more. This is how it evens out and this is the exact reason other casinos allow players to play in the currency of their choice (not necessarily their native currency).

 

[vinylweatherman]

We must not forget that this stance by this casino is NOTHING TO DO WITH BONUSES. While THIS player both used GBP and took a bonus, the former Brazillian player who had winnings confiscated played ENTIRELY with their own funds, ignoring the offer of a sign-up bonus. This is the first time I have seen a casino take this fight to non-bonus players, so whatever reason this one casino has for pre-empting the software and enforcing the rules RIGHT NOW has sod all to do with bonuses.

What is HAS to do with we just don't know, as the rep has refused to answer this question in both this thread, and the other.
Other MG casinos that have currency rules, use them only to prevent "bonus abuse", they do NOT go gunning for players who just use their own funds.
The native currency of Brazil is NOT an option, so the players are FORCED to choose a foreign currency for their play, so there is no reason for a non bonus player to be punished for selecting one over the other.
This rule also PREVENTS players from the UK choosing the dollar to keep their gambling in check, which they would do so that when they have to play 2.25 on the older 9-line slots, it is only $2.25, and not 2.25.
Most MG casinos prevent players from making low bets on many games by implementing higher minimum coin sizes. This is usually 25p on the 3 reel slots and older video slots. A UK player would choose the dollar if they didn't want to play that much, yet still be able to play all lines of the slot, as it should be played (and we have recently discovered the older video slots are weighted, and playing fewer lines drops the expected payout considerably - pretty much "cheating", since the player is lead to believe they are getting the same payout whatever the size of their wager - clearly NOT the case with these older games, and something MG have kept hidden for many years).

The best this casino can expect is acceptance that this term be used to fight "bonus abuse" by targeting high value currency. It cannot be acceptable to punish non-bonus players for what "bonus abusers" have done in the past that has lead to these tighter rules being thought up.

 

[aka23]

Key point in bold.

Works both ways for player and casino. Either you eventually win more or you eventually lose more. This is how it evens out and this is the exact reason other casinos allow players to play in the currency of their choice (not necessarily their native currency).

Choosing a strong currency is a good point. If a non-US player makes a deposit in $ and doesn't play much such that they roughly break even, then they will likely lose money over time due to the decreasing value of the $. Another non-bonus reason a player might choose GPB, is to have higher jackpots and higher max bet limits.

Regarding Playshare's policy of confiscating winnings, I think the ideal solution is to make the pop-up menu only list the allowed currencies when signing up based on the country the player selected. This shouldn't be difficult to program.

For the current players who choose the wrong currency, I think anyone who didn't claim a bonus should be paid their full winnings. And players who did claim a bonus should be paid winnings with the reduced value of their native currency. For example, 100 GPB of winnings becomes 100 USD of winnings. While these players did violate the T&C, in some cases it was likely an innocent mistake, as term #15 is easy to miss.

 

[Mario]

Mario has indicated, the original deposit should be refunded.

My question is has that been done? Has bedita received her deposit back?
If not, why not?

Yes I can confirm that this players deposits all been refunded back to him.

 

[maxine]

How in the hell is it bonus abuse? It's no different from a European converting there currency to the USD
and coming over here to buy cheaper goods. So is this European a Sellout? Did he/she do anything wrong by buying more
for his/her money? NO! This is a bunch of Bullshit and you know it. MARIO PAY THIS PERSON!!!

 

[Mario]

Nobody answered to my question, why they gave me a bonus in GBP so.
I asked for the bonus in an email, and they credited it.
IN GBP!!!
and later on I cannot play in GBP.
But I can get a bonus in GBP.

To answer your question the process of crediting players are all automated with no human intervention.

Yes we can go the route where a player needs to wait for their bonus let’s say 24 hours while all the checks are done and that you are playing in the correct currency or that you don’t have a duplicate account but we believe in instant gratification.

Mario

 

[Mario]

From Mario's replies, I understand that even if the player had lost there would still be a refund of the deposit. Can Mario please give clarification on this.

Correct

 

[Mario]

Mario why don't you just sent this person a check in GBP? This currency issue is a poor lame excuse. You should be ashame of yourself for stooping so low! How can you take this person winnings when they played with no bonus? It doesn't matter what currency it balance out in the end. PAY THIS PERSON MARIO!!! Returning this person deposit isn't going to cut it. This person is OWED WINNINGS!!!

YOU and YOUR WHITE LABEL CASINOS are nothing but TROUBLE MARIO! You are becoming the Oliver's and Cloud's of the industry. People be warned of Playshare. They are hurting because of the US ban and are trying anything to stay afloat. Leave this Character Alone he is NO GOOD!!!

Yes do beware, I am trouble. I might just 'let the cat out of the bag...'

Sorry bad joke!

 

[Mario]

How in the hell is it bonus abuse? It's no different from a European converting there currency to the USD
and coming over here to buy cheaper goods. So is this European a Sellout? Did he/she do anything wrong by buying more
for his/her money? NO! This is a bunch of Bullshit and you know it. MARIO PAY THIS PERSON!!!

If this player can send us documentation that he is a UK citizen and or residency then we would gladly pay him.

 

[Mario]

Hi all,

Great read as always...

We do refund players win or lose and please do put us to the test.

So this means that it is not just limited to bonus abuse or not, and personally I do agree with almost everyones comments that yes either way the player and the casino looses not just in the short term but in the long terms as well.

If a player can proof that he/she is allowed to player in that particular currency with the valid documentation that there would be absolutely no reason why we would not payout the players winnings.

Yes we all agree that the terms and conditions should be more visible and also one should be denied from even being allowed to register in the wrong currency.

The fact of the matter is that it is not very hard to code it in but this is not done by us as we do not write the software and only ask for an implementation like this on your wish list.

However I do agree that this should be stopped even before one proceeds to make a deposit and in the intern believe that the quickest and the easiest way would be once a player attempts to makes a deposit by simply rejecting it there and then.

This is not perfect but we are working on it.

Best regards
Mario

 

[BBKPoker]

Re: Logan Berry. It's not pure speculation at all, you just are completely in the dark as to how bonus abusers operate, and being a player, you automatically assume that all players are ZOMG being taken advantage of by a casino!!!!!!11one

So you are telling me that the excuse they gave for playing in GBP is enough for you to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are a legitimate player and not a bonus abuser, despite the fact that this is a newly registered poster on Casinomeister, who has an obvious shill poster supporting them (maxine) who also registered less than a month ago, and both posters have under ten posts.

Right.

I'm just going to stop arguing with you, you're utterly clueless in how bonus abusers operate (believe me, it's in wherever possible), and how they post inflammatory threads on Casinomeister to try and get paid.

 

[loganberry]

...being a player, you automatically assume that all players are ZOMG being taken advantage of by a casino!!!!!!11one

huh?!!

So you are telling me that the excuse they gave for playing in GBP is enough for you to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are a legitimate player and not a bonus abuser, despite the fact that this is a newly registered poster on Casinomeister, who has an obvious shill poster supporting them (maxine) who also registered less than a month ago, and both posters have under ten posts.

huh?!!

I'm just going to stop arguing with you, you're utterly clueless in how bonus abusers operate (believe me, it's in wherever possible), and how they post inflammatory threads on Casinomeister to try and get paid.

huh?!!

Forgot to take your medication today, did you?

And as far as I can see, the only inflammatory thread is coming directly from you. Why don't you do us all a favour and take your bile and your total inability to comprehend written English over to Winneronline where you will have a bosom buddy by the name of Caruso.

 

[The Dude]

Admin Note

Chill please - this is not Christmas cheer.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi all,

Great read as always...

We do refund players win or lose and please do put us to the test.

So this means that it is not just limited to bonus abuse or not, and personally I do agree with almost everyones comments that yes either way the player and the casino looses not just in the short term but in the long terms as well.

If a player can proof that he/she is allowed to player in that particular currency with the valid documentation that there would be absolutely no reason why we would not payout the players winnings.

Yes we all agree that the terms and conditions should be more visible and also one should be denied from even being allowed to register in the wrong currency.

The fact of the matter is that it is not very hard to code it in but this is not done by us as we do not write the software and only ask for an implementation like this on your wish list.

However I do agree that this should be stopped even before one proceeds to make a deposit and in the intern believe that the quickest and the easiest way would be once a player attempts to makes a deposit by simply rejecting it there and then.

This is not perfect but we are working on it.

Best regards
Mario

Quite, but it is YOUR CHOICE to have this nasty rule apply to non-bonus players. There is absolutely NO VALID REASON why you should believe that confiscating winnings is somehow made good because you also refund the deposits of losing players. This is exactly what rogue casinos do, they find excuses not to pay winners, but if pressed they will refund the deposits of losers. It is an unfair contract term, and would NEVER get past a UK court, but you get away with it because of how this particular industry works.

There is some justification for having this rule to prevent bonus abuse, but NOWHERE have you EVER come up with a reason why this rule is NECESSARY in order to protect the business from players who DO NOT TAKE BONUSES.
What is worse, you have bulldozed this rule through NOW, even though the software will soon have the capability to accommodate this automatically, and ensure that NO PLAYER would get caught out, whether having read the terms of not.
You agree that the terms should be more visible, so why haven't you done it from the first incident which raised this point (the player who played without a bonus).

I challenge you DIRECTLY to answer the simple question (which has been asked before).

Why is is NECESSARY (not merely desirable) to have this term for players WHO TAKE NO BONUSES, and it has been IMPOSSIBLE to hold off from doing this until the software can be upgraded to support it.

As far as some of us here are concerned, player's club is no better than Crystal Palace. This will also reflect badly on Grand Mondial, and will only serve to support the view that your white label initiative will only cause trouble for the player community. This tale is evidence of that.

If I were looking to play at a casino, and saw this tale (and the other one), I would avoid Player's Club like the plague. I would also avoid any casino that was associated with it.

This inflexible "jobsworth" approach to this rule has severely damaged the reputation of your group. The rule was designed to be applied with discresion to fight off forum based bonus abusers, but the impersonal approach of using it for every case, whatever the circumstances, innocent mistake or calculated advantage play, makes your business look like an uncaring, untrustworthy, and cold entity. Other businesses have been damaged by this kind of approach, and theb online casino industry is particularly at risk because it is based, for the most part, on trust, not legislation.

I have already drawn a comparison with how you can show understanding and flexibilty with the spamming affiliate, even though the terms THEY have signed up to are equally as clear as term 15 for players about currency.
WHY is this spamming affiliate being let off the hook by the rules being waived that require IMMEDIATE closure of their affiliate account, yet you are totally incapable of showing any flexibilty for PLAYERS by looking into the circumstances before imposing such a nasty rule.

In short, THIS player used a bonus, so you have reason to believe this was an attempt to manipulate the system on the balance of probabilities.

The former player had no interest in bonuses, but was just careless in selecting their currency, something the software allowed without offering any kind of advisory, and further the player was allowed to play with the problem only being picked up later. This is where the flexibilty and understanding you were so happy to show a spamming affiliate should be extended to a player, who is after all the CUSTOMER, and who pays your wages - the affiliate doesn't - they just recruit customers who MAY end up paying your wages if they are happy with the product.

 

[bedita]

Yes I can confirm that this players deposits all been refunded back to him.

heyyy,
strange, it took them 3 month to pay me my deposit back.
Strange, before I was not complaining in this forum, they would not even answer e-mails.
If I wouldnt have found this forum, never, but never they would have paied me my deposit.
Very easy to pay me now, after you start getting trouble with the casinomeister forum.

 

[bedita]

To answer your question the process of crediting players are all automated with no human intervention.

Yes we can go the route where a player needs to wait for their bonus lets say 24 hours while all the checks are done and that you are playing in the correct currency or that you dont have a duplicate account but we believe in instant gratification.

Mario

automated?? so a computer read the e-mail I had to write, and than credited my account.
Cannot believe how many more excuses you ll bring.
So u as a casino have not the time to spend 10 sek, to verify if I, as a client, can play this bonus, but I must spend hours to go through all your T&C.
It is so obvious that you rip people of.
hey fellas,
why is this casino not on the rogued list???
and WHYYYY, is their sister casino acredited,(Grand Mondial) when there was a player even playing without bonus, and they treated him the same way???

 

[bedita]

Re: Logan Berry. It's not pure speculation at all, you just are completely in the dark as to how bonus abusers operate, and being a player, you automatically assume that all players are ZOMG being taken advantage of by a casino!!!!!!11one

So you are telling me that the excuse they gave for playing in GBP is enough for you to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are a legitimate player and not a bonus abuser, despite the fact that this is a newly registered poster on Casinomeister, who has an obvious shill poster supporting them (maxine) who also registered less than a month ago, and both posters have under ten posts.

Right.

I'm just going to stop arguing with you, you're utterly clueless in how bonus abusers operate (believe me, it's in wherever possible), and how they post inflammatory threads on Casinomeister to try and get paid.

OK, first of all, do you know where the biggest community outside of brazil lives???
exactly: in LONDON.
I vistited severall friends there, and its the best known strong currency in my country.
second I have no idea whoi that maxine is, but he seems to be a bit more objective than u.
3.: I like to play slots, I am just a slots player.
If I tried to abuse bonuses, I would not play slots, that is for sure

 

[vinylweatherman]

automated?? so a computer read the e-mail I had to write, and than credited my account.
Cannot believe how many more excuses you ll bring.
So u as a casino have not the time to spend 10 sek, to verify if I, as a client, can play this bonus, but I must spend hours to go through all your T&C.
It is so obvious that you rip people of.
hey fellas,
why is this casino not on the rogued list???
and WHYYYY, is their sister casino acredited,(Grand Mondial) when there was a player even playing without bonus, and they treated him the same way???

It's not quite that simple. The accreditation for Grand Mondial was granted when it was an independent casino, then called Grand Monaco. It was then bought by Playshare, and absorbed into the portfolio.
Accreditation tends to stand until the casino itself, not it's new sisters, fail to meet the standards. This fate has befallen FastWin after it was sold off by Christchurch casinos and began to fail players.

Your own case for payment is a good deal weaker than that of the other player who took no bonus, but it seems the casino will not budge for either of you. It will have to live with the resultant publicity these cases have given them.

 

[bedita]

Ok Mario

now that you finally confirmed you pay people back who loose their deposit in the wrong currency I really have to tell the community sth.
Me, myself and I, I played at Grand Mondial in September and lost everything, and I never got any penny back.
And I played as always in my favourite currency, in GBP

and Mario dont tell me you pay me tomorrow.
This is the final proof they are just a cheap rip of casino and should be put on the rogued list, not on the acredited.
for god s sake, take this casino of your list!!!!!

 

[The Dude]

hey casinomeister, how much do playshare pay you to keep them acredited.
They are a ridiculous bunch of mafiosi, wake up!!!
I cannot take these forum serious anymore if they are not taken from the acredited list.
go take a look at some serious casinos like 32red, or intercasino.
Or they do not offer GBP, or they are fine if you play in the currency.
Everything else I cannot take it serious, and I think nobody can, if he has some brain cells left.
and beer is the living proof god and the devil wants us to be happy

Then go away and don't bother us when YOU screw up and not abide by their terms and conditions. It was clear that you were not to play GBP. You made the choice to deposit and request a bonus in this currency. If you had read the Ts&Cs (which you claimed you did for 30 minutes) then you should accept the consequences when you break them.

I believe there is only 1 Playshare casino on the accredited list, and it is not Player's Club. They may have been accredited in the past when they were with Boss.

They weren't. Never dealt with them - only Pharoahs.

This is all so ridiculous, and I really think they should be put on the rogued list.
What kind of behavior is this, to offer currencies, and then hide the terms in the middle of pages, a normal person does not even understand what these terms mean.
This has nothing to do with fair gambling, and everybody should be warned to avoid this casino

Then don't play online - you knew what you where doing. Don't blame others for your own screw-up.

They are just a cheap rip of casino and I cannot believe they are acredited.
and to casinomeister, why dont you take it serious what I say, that is no excuse, why should it be one. WHats your problem with the UK- currency????
Really not very helpfull these people here in the forum.
I lost a lot of money because of a silly rule hidden somewhere in huge terms.
And you even acredit these casinos so people think they are serious casino operators.

I live in Europe and have never ever ever played in GBP unless at a B&M casino in London. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT MY CURRENCY!

Don't be such a crybaby. You were wrong.

How can you take this person winnings when they played with no bonus? It doesn't matter what currency it balance out in the end. PAY THIS PERSON MARIO!!! Returning this person deposit isn't going to cut it. This person is OWED WINNINGS!!!...

This person lives in Brazil - deposited in GBP and received a bonus. The player broke the terms - all bets are off.

We can debate whether or not currencies should match the residency of a player until the cows come home. That's fine. But what is clear is that this player is in the wrong, and to insist on roguing a casino or attacking my integrity because of this is way out of line.

-15 rep points for the OP. If you don't like it - take a hike.

 

[odair]

no bonus issue

Hello,

I am the other user that wasnt paid by Grandmondial. I was not playing with a bonus. But also I played with the wrong currency.
I since in the other thread Mario stated that they would pay deposits back to players that loose, I didnt believe and asked my neighbour to open an account in GBP. She depoisted and lost. Guess: no refund
After some weeks she wrote an email asking to get the lost money refunded. No answer. After 7 more emails and for weeks answers like "You will be contacted within 24 hours with feedback on this issue" (which I never was) she really got the monay back. I was very surprised on that. But on the other hand: this was yesterday. After weeks of writing emails. And for some coincidence exactly the day that mario shouts out in the forum that players can make the test.
I gave up on hoping for my money. They also didnt go in the trap. But it stinks to hell!

Bye

 

[BBKPoker]

3.: I like to play slots, I am just a slots player.
If I tried to abuse bonuses, I would not play slots, that is for sure

That is absolute fiction.

Let's take a look at the terms of their bonus structure:

Games as they count towards the wagering requirement.

* Slots and Parlor Games - 100%
* Table Poker, Roulette - 25%
* Video Poker, Casino War - 5%
* All versions of Blackjack, Power Poker, Craps, Baccarat, Sicbo, Progressive Slots and Games, Red Dog, Paigow Poker, All Aces and Jacks or Better Video Poker - 0%

Microgaming house edge for slots is variable on the slot, but generally range from 3.5-4.5 percent. If you question this, go look at any Microgaming slots payout, I've looked at 32red's entire year of slots payouts in the past and know that they have not paid out less than 95% ever, and frequently payout much higher, often around 97%. Since Microgaming does not allow their slots payouts to be changed by the operator, I think its a fair assumption that players club will more or less mirror their payouts over time.

So, I'm going to go ahead and be exceedingly generous and use a house edge that is obviously much higher than they have as a way of showing how fictious your argument is. We'll call Microgaming Slots at 5% HA, they count 100% for a HA of 5%.

We don't have to calculate any of the excluded games.

Roulette: According to the Wizard of Odds, the lowest HA of any roulette game on the internet is Microgaming's French Roulette, who's outside bets (red/black, odd/even, high/low) payout at 1.35% due to the La Partage rule where you get half back if you spin a zero. Bets at roulette count 25% towards the WR for an adjusted HA of 4*1.35% or 5.4% HA, which is higher than slots.

Jacks or Better has a HA of .46% counts at 5% for an adjusted HA of 20 * .46% or 9.2% again, higher than the HA of slots.

Casino War has a HA of 2.33% counts as 5% for an adjusted HA of 20 * 2.33 or 46.6% again, higher than the HA of slots.

The lowest edge table game is the Pair Plus bet on 3 card poker at 2.32% counts at 25% for an adjusted HA of 4*2.32 or 9.28% HA.

So every game has at least a .4% HA edge or higher when clearing the wagering requirements of this particular bonus.

I'll bet you the exact amount that you had confiscated that I can name two specific bonus abuse strategies and Mario can confirm that you used one of those two strategies I named by looking at your Playcheck history.

Still want to play stupid? Take me up on my bet, and I'll find an escrow service for it.

 

[BBKPoker]

Forgot to take your medication today, did you?

And as far as I can see, the only inflammatory thread is coming directly from you. Why don't you do us all a favour and take your bile and your total inability to comprehend written English over to Winneronline where you will have a bosom buddy by the name of Caruso.

Nope, I had multivitamin this morning. I'm sorry you feel it necessary to attack me while I'm pointing out obviously nonsensical comments the OP has made. Again, it's clear that you have no idea how bonus abusers operate. Then again, maybe the OP will take me up on my bet, I'll somehow magically lose, and you'll get vindicated.

I'd guess "no", though.

 

[aka23]

We do refund players win or lose and please do put us to the test.

Me, myself and I, I played at Grand Mondial in September and lost everything, and I never got any penny back.

I since in the other thread Mario stated that they would pay deposits back to players that loose, I didnt believe and asked my neighbour to open an account in GBP. She depoisted and lost. Guess: no refund

Is the currency choice audit not done until a withdrawal is made, so players do not get their deposit refunded on a loss unless they make a withdrawal?

 

[loganberry]

Originally posted by BBKPoker.....
Nope, I had multivitamin this morning. I'm sorry you feel it necessary to attack me while I'm pointing out obviously nonsensical comments the OP has made. Again, it's clear that you have no idea how bonus abusers operate. Then again, maybe the OP will take me up on my bet, I'll somehow magically lose, and you'll get vindicated.

It's not what you are saying, it's the way that you are saying it which comes across as infuriating. You may be right. You may be wrong. But because you yourself are attacking everyone who disagrees with your bonus abuse comments, it is difficult to take you seriously.

And for the record, I have never attacked you. I have commented on your comments, which is what apparently you find difficult to accept.

And thus endeth the lesson.

BTW: Can I borrow your vitamins? I really need a pick-me-up.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ok Mario

now that you finally confirmed you pay people back who loose their deposit in the wrong currency I really have to tell the community sth.
Me, myself and I, I played at Grand Mondial in September and lost everything, and I never got any penny back.
And I played as always in my favourite currency, in GBP

and Mario dont tell me you pay me tomorrow.
This is the final proof they are just a cheap rip of casino and should be put on the rogued list, not on the acredited.
for god s sake, take this casino of your list!!!!!

That's three accounts then - you are only making your case worse, as now it seems to imply you are hopping from casino to casino and taking GBP bonuses. It is this kind of exploit this term was designed for, my objection is the way in which non-bonus players are also being made to suffer. If you have been only playing the SUB in GBP at a number of casinos, then this does indeed fit the profile of a bonus hunter, and using GBP simply ensures you get noticed and caught. The art of whoring bonuses involves keeping a low profile, and not letting greed make it too obvious.
Skilled bonus players would have done their research, and factored in the risk involved in attempting to breach this term and not be noticed. If so skilled, you would have been well aware of this term, as you would have gone through them inch by inch looking for any weaknesses.
It has been a long while since such obvious ploys went unnoticed by casino audit departments, probably even back to before the big initial bet strategy became widespread.
You are also bringing this to the attention of other casinos, who might be on the lookout for your accounts.

 

[chuchu59]

Is the currency choice audit not done until a withdrawal is made, so players do not get their deposit refunded on a loss unless they make a withdrawal?

If the currency choice audit isnt done until a withdrawal is made, there could literally be dozens of players that have suffered losses and not have deposits refunded and that's simply because they didnt know there would be refunds. Mario, I think you should take a look at this otherwise the integrity of the casino is questionable.

Meanwhile, is Bedita saying that he opened 3 accounts at Grand mondial and obtained bonuses on all of them. If so, there should be no recourse fpr complaints and can really be described as 'bonus abuse'.

 

[loganberry]

Originally posted by chuchu59...
Meanwhile, is Bedita saying that he opened 3 accounts at Grand mondial and obtained bonuses on all of them.....

Just a quick question....'me, myself and I' is a phrase (as well as the name of a film) which is now in common usage when speaking about yourself (singular). Is this what you and VWM are basing your assumption that Bedita has opened 3 accounts on? She may not have meant anything more than that. Just asking....

 

[bedita]

If the currency choice audit isnt done until a withdrawal is made, there could literally be dozens of players that have suffered losses and not have deposits refunded and that's simply because they didnt know there would be refunds. Mario, I think you should take a look at this otherwise the integrity of the casino is questionable.

Meanwhile, is Bedita saying that he opened 3 accounts at Grand mondial and obtained bonuses on all of them. If so, there should be no recourse fpr complaints and can really be described as 'bonus abuse'.

sorry for the confusion, that is just a brazilian expression, of course I have only one account at Grand Mondial.
I played in September, and lost.
I cannot make a withdrawal if I lost everything.
So people who loose, Grand Mondial keapes the money, and people who win , they do not get paied.
They are really to be taken of the acredited list

 

[chuchu59]

Just a quick question....'me, myself and I' is a phrase (as well as the name of a film) which is now in common usage when speaking about yourself (singular). Is this what you and VWM are basing your assumption that Bedita has opened 3 accounts on? She may not have meant anything more than that. Just asking....

Yup, I know the meaning of the term but it does seem strange that Bedita had not used this as a counter-argument to press for his winnings. If he only had one account at GM and played in GBP some time ago, its a completely different story. Unless, it's another fallen thru the cracks excuse, then the player has every reason to retrieve the winnings, and in GBP also. I think Mario has some explaining to do as to why the deposit was never refunded until the player posted in the forum. If no plausible reason is guiven, then the integrity of the casino is highly questionable.

 

[maxd]

In terms of the original issue the bottom line is that the player violated the T&Cs, the casino rep has made themselves available and has participated in the discussion, and in the end the player received their original deposit back. I believe that resolves the original issue and I'm flagging the thread accordingly.

There's obviously still an open debate here -- the change of status isn't meant to reflect on it one way or the other -- so let that continue as required. If it becomes necessary we can split the debate off from the main topic so it can stand on it's own.

 

[maxine]

This person lives in Brazil - deposited in GBP and received a bonus. The player broke the terms - all bets are off.

We can debate whether or not currencies should match the residency of a player until the cows come home. That's fine. But what is clear is that this player is in the wrong, and to insist on roguing a casino or attacking my integrity because of this is way out of line.

-15 rep points for the OP. If you don't like it - take a hike.

Take a Hike? Ha! You're the one that is acting like you got something stuck up your butt. You used to be cool Meister. Now you just a lonely man (Evening with your family). You have become worst than eCogra. I bet they have paid you off also. It doesn't matter your board isn't what it used to be and never will be. You can ban anyone you choose. But you know and I know that you are no longer effective like you "USED" to be. Hey if you can't beat'em might as well join'em, huh meister?

 

[chuchu59]

No personal insults please. Make your point with reasons. Or dont you have anyone to share your X'Mas with you? Everytime someone is not happy with Bryan's actions or views, they say he is paid. If you have proof, show it or shut up.

This is still the best casino watchdog site by a mile.

 

[maxd]

... Now you just a lonely man ....

No matter how you look at it this is a pretty low-class way to go about stating your opinion. Of course I'll leave it to CM to speak for himself but my opinion is that it's trouble makers, not contributing members, that make posts like this.

And while we're at it I suggest you have another look at the Forum Rules, namely:

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended.

 

[bedita]

Maxine, why dont you make your own thread to complain, instead of insulting peobple in mine.
So now it is cleared, that playshare does not pay back deposits when you loose.
I wanted the community to know that.

 

[The Dude]

Take a Hike? Ha! You're the one that is acting like you got something stuck up your butt. You used to be cool Meister. Now you just a lonely man (Evening with your family). You have become worst than eCogra. I bet they have paid you off also. It doesn't matter your board isn't what it used to be and never will be. You can ban anyone you choose. But you know and I know that you are no longer effective like you "USED" to be. Hey if you can't beat'em might as well join'em, huh meister?

Ho ho ho - say, that's not Christmas cheer.

Nothing wrong spending time with my family - and I am far from lonely

Worse than eCOGRA - hmmm. I'll have to think about that one.

Paid me? Who? Where? Show me the money!

Board not what it used to be? That's an odd thing to say - especially coming from a newbie poster that has ONLY posted in this thread since he/she signed up, and who shares the IP of one other member who was banned for player fraud <gasp>.

Seems like you've got a major chip on your shoulder

As for the board, it has increased in strength and reach by leaps and bounds since this time last year. I know this, but you probably don't. Hell, I hired Max from WOL this past month to help out.

Not effective? Like they say, sticks and stones...

So Maxine, if you have nothing to contribute to this forum besides a bunch of verbal spewage - go take your ball and play somewhere else, okay?

 

[The Dude]

...You used to be cool Meister. Now you just a lonely man (Evening with your family)...

Come to think of it, I'm not going to take this kind of crap - be it me or any other member of this forum these insults are directed at. These comments were way out of line for a newbie poster.

Bye.

 

[cyprean]

Ho Ho ho..

Dear CM

What is your take on accredited casinos' currency policies? If a player registers at an Accredited casino with a "non-allowed" currency, say GBP when he is not from the UK, shouldn't the casino just return the player's deposit whether the player loses or wins or even plays at all?

I know atleast one Casino (Group) in the Accredited lists which goes to steal-city if the player wins, and won't return a pound if the player loses. I won't name them for now.

I like Mario's stance that they return the deposit whether or not the player won or lost.

Best Regards
Cyp

 

[bedita]

Dear CM

What is your take on accredited casinos' currency policies? If a player registers at an Accredited casino with a "non-allowed" currency, say GBP when he is not from the UK, shouldn't the casino just return the player's deposit whether the player loses or wins or even plays at all?

I know atleast one Casino (Group) in the Accredited lists which goes to steal-city if the player wins, and won't return a pound if the player loses. I won't name them for now.

I like Mario's stance that they return the deposit whether or not the player won or lost.

Best Regards
Cyp

hi,
like I told before, Mario is lying.
I played at Grand Mondial, lost, and they didnt give me my deposit back.
fellas, you really think they deserve to be accredited???

 

[paul02085]

hi,
like I told before, Mario is lying.
I played at Grand Mondial, lost, and they didnt give me my deposit back.
fellas, you really think they deserve to be accredited???

So you initially signed up and deposited in the wrong currency and lost it all. Did you receive a bonus on the first deposit?

Later you deposited again in the wrong currency and received a bonus. Was this bonus a sign up bonus? If so, how did you get it on your second deposit?

 

[maxd]

like I told before, Mario is lying.

Bedita, I caution you to avoid this kind of personal and libelous attack. In particular please note the following excerpt from the Forum Rules:

1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts. Do not make posts that could be considered libelous, defamatory, or posting merely to cause harm to another's business.

From my point of view your attacks on Mario seem intended to do exactly that, harm his business, and it won't be tolerated.

 

[chuchu59]

While I agree that Bedita should control his language, I believe Mario has to address the issue of why Bedita was not refunded his deposit at Grand Mondial for 3 months. This is contrary to what he says on returning deposits to players who played in an 'undesirable' currency.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Bedita, I caution you to avoid this kind of personal and libelous attack. In particular please note the following excerpt from the Forum Rules:



From my point of view your attacks on Mario are intended to do exactly that, harm his business, and it won't be tolerated.

Hi Max, did you ever read the white label thread and Mario's comments? You will find Mario speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He has some serious credibilty issues in that thread as he continues to say one thing and members see another similiar to the most recent Spam situation w/Vinyl et al iirc. Not saying you are incorrect in this thread re respecting Mario but check out the referenced threads if you have not when you get time........you seem to be a big asset and making a valuable contribution to forum members,thanks for your persistence and diligence,I am impressed,fwiw!