[RESOLVED] playersclub refuses to pay 4700 GBP

[maxd]

Your deposit should be refunded back to the deposit options which you've made the deposit too.

If not possible then I will be in touch in regards to getting an alternative option from you.

I think we all agree that there's a problem with telling players in the T&C that they can't play off-currency and then allowing them to do so anyway. We'll all be happier when the transaction processing systems enforce that rule and thereby prohibit players from getting themselves into difficulty as bedita has.

That said we all know that the T&Cs are what both casino and player fall back on when there's a dispute so it behooves the player to read and understand the terms before they deposit and proceed. In general it's not the casino's responsibility to babysit everyone and keep them from doing something that they'll wish they hadn't done later, though in the case of the currency issue we all agree that it's reasonable to expect the casino to be more diligent.

I'm sorry to say it bedita but if you can't understand the T&C and you know you can't understand the T&C then (a) ask for clarification or (b) don't play there. Ignorance isn't much of a defense when the T&Cs tell you how it is supposed to be. Would you expect a judge to look kindly upon you if you were caught driving the wrong way down the freeway and your defense was "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to drive the wrong way down that part of the freeway!" No, I reckon not. The bottom line here is that the T&Cs lay out the course of action in case of this problem occurring and, as Mario has indicated, the original deposit should be refunded.

My question is has that been done? Has bedita received her deposit back?
If not, why not?

 

[Casinomeister]

first of all, what is wrong with GBP.
I have been to London before and I just like the currency.
...

In my nearly ten years of dealing with casino bonus issues, this is absolutely the best excuse I've heard - ever. I think bedita is up far a Casinomeister Award this year

"I didn't know I wasn't supposed to drive the wrong way down that part of the freeway!" ...

Ha ha - made my morning

 

[satchmo]

I still wonder why people think, they can make easy money.
Many have tried and about 99.99% of them failed.

And when they get snortified, they tend to not know they werent suppose to do that.

Maybe i should PAB Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) couse i cant cash out.
I havent made any deposits tough, but i have money in my account it sayes so. And maybe i should complain about that whenever i try to cashout in any currency i want to, the cashier is not aviable. Lousy support.

But on the other hand it aint so har to filther the countries when you register, so you can only choose certain currency, based on the country choosen.


So i guess this is a both way problem. People not reading terms, or money hungry people and lazy programers.


Satchmo the man the myth the man who wants to play in casinomeister currency...

 

[ugaboga]

Ah yes... but the difference is that some casinos make an effort on their side, so as to not mis-lead the consumer once they have made a deposit in GBP.

I think it was Golden Reef Casino, who offered a bonus of $100 USD, but if you were to deposit in GBP, the bonus value would be 50.

The onus is on the Casino to create a fool-proof system for players, Player's club should've had a system in place to disallow player's from selecting a currency which is not the official currency of their residence.

Instead, they choose to have it mentioned in the T&C's. To me, it just looks like a way of cheating unsuspecting players out of their winnings.

I have played at Willhill (Casino & Sportsbook) in GBP and have been paid, the same applies to Betfred etc. It seems to be only Mario's casinos that have this restriction.

This is probably the most transparent and stupid excuse I've seen a bonus abuser use for playing in instead of their native currency. Congratulations are in order.

Bottom line, you played in because the bonus is worth more in than in any other currency, and you were playing the bonus in a profitable manner. The terms clearly do not allow it. You got your money confiscated in accordance with their terms and conditions.

Open and shut case. If you are a bonus abuser who operates on the margins of being a transparent advantage player, you should expect that any and all winnings are immediately going to be taken from you when you violate the published terms and conditions of a casino website.

Next time, read the terms twice.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm afraid this does not wash. While THIS player took a bonus as well as playing in the strongest currency available, there is another case where a player took NO BONUS WHATSOEVER and STILL had their winning confiscated because of this currency issue.

I've heard "it's in the terms....", HOWEVER, while coming down on players 100% with the most draconian measures possible, they treat their AFFILIATES who are caught spamming with "kid gloves".

In their terms and conditions, which affiliates are expected to read and abide by, it states that any affiliates found to have been involved in spamming will have their accounts disabled and their revenue confiscated. But what happens, I caught a spammer for one of these "white label" outfits, surely more serious a breach that the "wrong currency without any bonuses", yet the casino is NOT going by it's stated terms and conditions, it is just "talking to the affiliate", presumably to allow them the opportunity to stop spamming after the fact and by promising to mend their ways be allowed to keep their revenue, or "winnings". Suddenly, when AFFILIATES are involved, they can be oh so flexible in interpreting their terms, but for a player - well, just throw the book at them because they are clearly no good.

What has happened in the past with this softly softly approach to spammers, the spam has GROWN, not diminished.

 

[maxd]

In principle I don't disagree with you V'man but let's come back to planet Earth for a second. We want the casinos to handle their money matters better (primarily) because it's good for the player. One certainly should ask that the casinos deal with affiliate matters a little more even-handedly ... but let's not forget that the affiliates are good for the casino as in the players they bring in who make them money.

It's no news that money-makers get handled "special" while punters mostly just get handled, that's just human nature and as old as the hills. No I don't think anyone is applauding that but who really wants to spend all their energy chasing that windmill?

Ya, maybe some day the casinos will go the extra distance on this but I'm not holding my breath. I think it's more realistic to try to get players paid as per the T&Cs and count ourselves lucky when we do. "Grub first, then ethics" as the old saying goes.

 

[bedita]

well, looks like you guys have a problem with the GBP.
Nobody answered to my question, why they gave me a bonus in GBP so.
I asked for the bonus in an email, and they credited it.
IN GBP!!!
and later on I cannot play in GBP.
But I can get a bonus in GBP.
They are just a cheap rip of casino and I cannot believe they are acredited.
and to casinomeister, why dont you take it serious what I say, that is no excuse, why should it be one. WHats your problem with the UK- currency????
Really not very helpfull these people here in the forum.
I lost a lot of money because of a silly rule hidden somewhere in huge terms.
And you even acredit these casinos so people think they are serious casino operators.

 

[BBKPoker]

well, looks like you guys have a problem with the GBP.
Nobody answered to my question, why they gave me a bonus in GBP so.
I asked for the bonus in an email, and they credited it.
IN GBP!!!
and later on I cannot play in GBP.
But I can get a bonus in GBP.
They are just a cheap rip of casino and I cannot believe they are acredited.
and to casinomeister, why dont you take it serious what I say, that is no excuse, why should it be one. WHats your problem with the UK- currency????
Really not very helpfull these people here in the forum.
I lost a lot of money because of a silly rule hidden somewhere in huge terms.
And you even acredit these casinos so people think they are serious casino operators.

No one is taking you seriously because you are an obvious bonus abuser who is pissed that you didn't read the terms correctly, and now are having your money confiscated. You agreed to that rule when you registered your casino account.

That being said, while I have absolutely no sympathy for you, I do agree with the posters that say he should never have been given a bonus in the first place. A number of Microgaming casinos are able to exclude players from bonuses when they signup in their non-native currency (I'm not sure if they do this via automation, or they are manually issuing bonuses). I do know from personal experience where I accidentally signed up in Canadian dollars instead of US dollars, that if you signup at a MiniVegas property in anything other than your native currency (I think USD is fine if your currency isn't supported by the casino), you are not issued a bonus unless you open a new account in the correct currency, and request them to close the incorrect first account.

That is the ideal standard that casinos ought to gravitate towards.

It doesn't mean Bedita should get anything back but their deposit though.

Tough luck.

 

[ugaboga]

I don't get it. How is the player a bonus abuser?

His deposit is of a higher value in GBP then a deposit in USD, so why doesn't he deserve to receive the bonus in GBP?

The casino has no excuse in this case; as such behaviour seems to be limited to Playshare casinos.

William Hill, Betfred, Unibet in my experience have had no issues with me playing in GBP and receiving bonuses, when I'm based in Australia.

 

[kakata]

He /she would have kept losing they wouldnt have told Bedita.......ohhhh please do not make any more deposit .................are you guys for real or what?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Despite being asked, Mario has flatly refused to justify this "wrong currency" issue when applied to players who take NO BONUSES. Where players DO take bonuses, the motive is normally that of getting a bigger bonus. If the player has some tactic then risking a bigger deposit dur to a higher valued currency is not a higher risk, but a lower one when averaged over many accounts.
Since other casinos are OK with non-UK players using the Pound, this is nothing more than an individual casino's decision. While they take this line, they are making it harder for their affiliates to convert visits to registered players, and is this why they have resorted to spam?

Because of the very serious implications for playing in the wrong currency, and the fact the software does not trap this error, and support don't notice, surely placing this term at the base of a long list is NOT "in the player's interest", but facilitates the unwise player making this mistake, who would expect an error message should they do something not allowed.
If it is up to Microgaming to get this sorted, then the casino has to wait, BUT, it is wholly within the casinos abilty to feature this rule in the most prominent manner possible, such that any player will see it even if they do not go through all the terms and conditions.
Many players believe that common sense prevails with terms and conditions, and expect that little can go wrong if they are honest with their details and play. It used to be said that it was only BONUSES that lead to these problems, and that if players didn't want to get tangled up with these, to just play with their own funds. This does NOT apply to this casino, as players who don't even use bonuses are hit by this currency rule.
Because there is no common sense involved for players whose OWN currency is unsupported, they have no idea that the US Dollar is somehow the "magic" currency with which to register, and are likely to take anything the software offers. While "bonus abusers" will go for the UK Pound, other players will opt for the Euro, seeing it as better than the US Dollar in many ways. The US has made the player community fearful of the Dollar because of the hard line attitude they have taken to online gambling. This has sometimes lead to non-US players running into problems with dollars, along with some scare stories. The most recent one being that Neteller will no longer process Dollar transactions, which means that non-US players who are allowed to have a Neteller account had better not have one in Dollars, but one of the other currencies, with the Euro being the most obvious choice for a non-UK player. This may not be true, or may be a misinterpretation of Netellers withdrawal from accepting US and Canadian ACCOUNTS, not the currency.
If all this makes it harder to play in dollars, then such rules will work against the casino in the long term, given how much competition still exists outside of the US and Canadian markets.

 

[bedita]

hey casinomeister, how much do playshare pay you to keep them acredited.
They are a ridiculous bunch of mafiosi, wake up!!!
I cannot take these forum serious anymore if they are not taken from the acredited list.
go take a look at some serious casinos like 32red, or intercasino.
Or they do not offer GBP, or they are fine if you play in the currency.
Everything else I cannot take it serious, and I think nobody can, if he has some brain cells left.
and beer is the living proof god and the devil wants us to be happy

 

[chuchu59]

hey casinomeister, how much do playshare pay you to keep them acredited.
They are a ridiculous bunch of mafiosi, wake up!!!
I cannot take these forum serious anymore if they are not taken from the acredited list.
go take a look at some serious casinos like 32red, or intercasino.
Or they do not offer GBP, or they are fine if you play in the currency.
Everything else I cannot take it serious, and I think nobody can, if he has some brain cells left.
and beer is the living proof god and the devil wants us to be happy

Look, Bryan doesnt get a dime for the accreditation he gives to the casinos otherwise there will be no integrity left. While I do not think that this group (playshare) should be confiscating winnings for those playing in the wrong currency, your rather 'lame' excuse for playing in GBP also leaves a lot to be desired.

Frankly, I doubt whether you will find a forum with members as serious as this one.

Excuse me.

 

[Edward D. Wood]

well well well...emotions...BUT.

I played lately al Ladbrokes....made a deposit and I was "asked" in which currency so I paid in Swiss francs. I played all the while and I wanted some more winnings...clicked on a progressive Slot. But I was refused to play there because of the wrong currency.

WHAT THE HELL?

YES...Beditas Bonus fairy tale is funny - a matter of greyshading situation. but YES. Why the heck are the users allowed to pay in a stupid currency when the result is a conflict between the management and the customers???
This is just another line of code in the software.
check: Customer country => allow the following currency.

My two cents before getting a coffee and a cigarette

 

[ugaboga]

Look, Bryan doesnt get a dime for the accreditation he gives to the casinos otherwise there will be no integrity left. While I do not think that this group (playshare) should be confiscating winnings for those playing in the wrong currency, your rather 'lame' excuse for playing in GBP also leaves a lot to be desired.

Frankly, I doubt whether you will find a forum with members as serious as this one.

Excuse me.

Whilst there is no charge on receiving accreditation status, please do remember that the Playshare group do run banner advertising campaigns on this site. (Grand Mondial comes to mind)

I'm not suggesting that there is anything suspicious here, just clarifying that at least one Playshare casino is a paid advertiser on this site.

What do you mean "lame" excuse? Does he even need a reason for playing in GBP?

 

[chuchu59]

Whilst there is no charge on receiving accreditation status, please do remember that the Playshare group do run banner advertising campaigns on this site. (Grand Mondial comes to mind)

I'm not suggesting that there is anything suspicious here, just clarifying that at least one Playshare casino is a paid advertiser on this site.

What do you mean "lame" excuse? Does he even need a reason for playing in GBP?

He went to London and liked the currency. That's why he played.

 

[Edward D. Wood]

I once flew to Newzealand and had a lame 5 hour stopover in Singapur....
it was funny at the airport...so from now on..I want to play with Singapur-Dollars

 

[ugaboga]

I would still like to know how it qualifies as bonus abuse?

He is still depositing a greater amount then he would be, if he was depositing in USD.

It all evens out in the end. So it really shouldn't matter what currency you use... C'mon guys, it's a lame term from Playshare.

 

[casplayer]

even if he is a bonus abuser, he risked more of his funds by playing in GBP and he won. If he lost there would NOT have been ANY refund. This is a lose-lose situation for the player which can not be tolerated.

The least I would expect from playshare would be a cash-out of the chips in USD as it has already been proposed.
If the hit has been a progressive jackpot it is important, that the money goes back to the global bossmedia jackpot and not in pc's pocket.

 

[BBKPoker]

I don't get it. How is the player a bonus abuser?

His deposit is of a higher value in GBP then a deposit in USD, so why doesn't he deserve to receive the bonus in GBP?

The casino has no excuse in this case; as such behaviour seems to be limited to Playshare casinos.

William Hill, Betfred, Unibet in my experience have had no issues with me playing in GBP and receiving bonuses, when I'm based in Australia.

If casual gamblers actually did this, and gambled above their heads in the wrong currency, losing more than they were intending, then the phenomenon of playing in GBP regardless of your country wouldn't be a problem.

Too bad they don't.

And Playshare has a perfect excuse. It's in their terms and conditions, and they are enforcing them. That is their perogative.

His deposit and action are of a greater LOSS to the casino, not value, if he decides to play the bonus in a profitable strategy, and no matter how many thinly-veiled and righteously indignant excuses you and he make for him, it's an obvious and open and shut case of a bonus abuser violating the posted terms of the site, and trying to use this site to browbeat the casino into getting paid.

 

[chuchu59]

even if he is a bonus abuser, he risked more of his funds by playing in GBP and he won. If he lost there would NOT have been ANY refund. This is a lose-lose situation for the player which can not be tolerated.

The least I would expect from playshare would be a cash-out of the chips in USD as it has already been proposed.
If the hit has been a progressive jackpot it is important, that the money goes back to the global bossmedia jackpot and not in pc's pocket.

From Mario's replies, I understand that even if the player had lost there would still be a refund of the deposit. Can Mario please give clarification on this.

 

[tntster]

His deposit and action are of a greater LOSS to the casino, not value, if he decides to play the bonus in a profitable strategy, and no matter how many thinly-veiled and righteously indignant excuses you and he make for him, it's an obvious and open and shut case of a bonus abuser violating the posted terms of the site, and trying to use this site to browbeat the casino into getting paid.

Interesting reading.....I've not read anywhere that the casino has accused the player of a "bonus abuse" Have I missed something? I don't get it, if the player met all the playthru requirements of the bonus x deposit....etc. etc. etc. and has not been accussed of cheating, how is it an advantage especially if they deposited in one currency and requested a withdrawl in the same?

If I play with Jelly Beans and a casino accepts them, I would expect to get paid with Jelly Beans.......not Gummy Bears!! Oh but wait......I played with Black Jelly Beans and thats a T&C no no........

Boo Hoo casino.....open your books and lets see how many times you've forgotten to "pay back" patrons who have "slipped thru the cracks" when they've lost a shit load of GBP's and had no clue! And why on God's Green Earth did the casino continue to pay the player with GBP's on bonus requests? Provides just as much inuendo for the casino as the player. Call a spade a spade if the player cheated......state it, don't beat around the friggin bush! If not pay the player! Fix the glitch and move on!

In the interm, I'm semi snowed in so I think I'll go and read as many T&C as I can and WTF make some up for my own amusement!!

 

[winbig]

Since this is such a major issue, how about moving the "wrong currency" clause up to #1 from #15 in the T&C? And putting it in BIG BOLD TEXT. Burying any sort of clause that will cause you to forfeit winnings is just an excuse to screw the player IMO.


But, when you think about it, since the deposit is being returned anyways, WHO WINS? Nobody. The casino is the one that's losing money! Do you think ANY player will re-deposit once they have winnings void? NOT! They lose money both from future deposits as well as the man hours it took to "investigate" this BS.

 

[ugaboga]

Why not pay out the winnings in USD?

Sorry, but this clause looks like a get out of jail card for the Casino, hoping that people don't read the T&C's thoroughly and if they do win, the casino has a safeguard against paying the player.

I think we should test them out anonymously, if they really do return deposits playing in the wrong currency, somehow I highly doubt this is the case.

 

[loganberry]

Originally posted by BBKPoker...
'.... it's an obvious and open and shut case of a bonus abuser violating the posted terms of the site, and trying to use this site to browbeat the casino into getting paid.'

Excuse me? I have to agree with tntster who says...

I've not read anywhere that the casino has accused the player of a "bonus abuse"

BBKPoker, what an outpouring of venom you have subjected not only the OP, but the rest of us to! But you go ahead - never let the facts get in the way of a good old vitriolic rant and rave.

I just hope you never see service on a jury which requires measured and logical thinking....you are so black and white you probably only come across grey when you need to do your washing...