Reefclubcasino don't pay

[luanwang]

Today I've received an email from Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd, which informed me, that they has closed my account because of my "abusing their generosity". I don't want to argue with them about it. But I've over $3000 in my account and they don't refund my deposit which I've made BEFORE their emai!!!!!

 

[mikepipe]

that seems a bit strange - if i m not totally wrong, they belong to 888 - and if you like them or not - they seemed to be honest to me.
I m afraid you should reveal some more details if possible - or PAB with all the details needed.

 

[paul02085]

Grief Club has been known to pull a few stunts in the past.

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[mikepipe]

ok- i read all that, but luanwang says, the keep his deposit - and that seems a bit more "criminal" (excuse my poor english please).

 

[luanwang]

Post the email from ReefClubCasino

as following:

Dear X,

I am Stuart from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises
(Gibraltar) Ltd., and I am writing in response to your email relating
to
your Casino-on-Net account with the username "xxxx".

X, I have reviewed your Casino-On-Net accounts. I have found a
pattern
emerging with your accounts in our systems which indicate you are
abusing our generosity.

X, please review the following passage which has been quoted from our
terms and conditions which you agreed to upon opening your account.

"(ii) In the event that the Company believes a user is abusing or
attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is likely to benefit
through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming policy adopted by the
Company, then the Company may, at its sole discretion, deny, withhold
or
withdraw from any user any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy
with respect to that user, either temporarily or permanently, or
terminate that user's access to the Service and/or block that user's
account."

In light of the manner in which you have been conducting your account I
must inform you that I have today closed the account. Please refrain
from opening any further accounts as these too will be blocked and no
deposits refunded.

Your understanding and cooperation is duly appreciated.

Regards,

Stuart
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
operations@cassava.net

 

[paul02085]

I am sure they will give back your deposit. If they dont watch out for major fireworks!

 

[luanwang]

I hope

I am sure they will give back your deposit. If they dont watch out for major fireworks!

I hope they could do so. But they haven't replied me yet. I'm waiting for it.

 

[mikepipe]

thanks luanwang for quoting the mail . As a (nearly) newbie i cant understand such behaviour. They need a very good reason for confiscating your deposit, i guess.
They might be right in locking your accounts - but what they do looks not absolutely clean (to me).

 

[Slotmachine]

In the event of a dispute, not refunding a deposit is just about the worst a casino can do. Unless you have really done something stupid, e.g. downright player fraud, there should be no reason not to refund a deposit.

"Abusing our generosity" is a really vague term. Luangwang, what did you do? You said you're not going to argue that decision - so is there something you'd like to tell us? I have a feeling something is not right here. Obviously either the player or the casino is pulling a fast one here.

I'm willing to give 888.com the benefit of the doubt here, as they are a reputable group.

I hope they monitor this board and provide some explanation! I'm putting my deposits with them on hold until this matter is cleared. Come to think of it, I've taken advantage of their sweepstakes bonuses almost as much as I've deposited - will they confiscate my next deposit?

Cheers,
SM

 

[The Dude]

Please refrain from opening any further accounts as these too will be blocked and no deposits refunded.

In other words, they have warned this player that he is no longer welcome there and any attempt to regain entrance would constitute player fraud on his part.

Looks like somebody is on Santa's naughty list. What did you do?

 

[luanwang]

That's also what I want to know.

SM:
I also want to know, what is the real meaning of "Abusing our generosity". I'm playing at ReefClubCasino everday for almost 2 years and no any problem. So I have made very big deposit ($200-2000) every time at reefclubcasino because of the good reputation. But SUDDENTLY they told me yesterday they has closed my accounts, that has over $3000 deposit!!!!!!

I said I don't want to argue the decision, only because I want to get my money at first. I can't image they have heisted my money just after they told me I "abused their generosity".

PS: I've sent cassava an Email yesterday and no reply yet.
I've called ReefClubCasino and they let me contact Cassava.
Then I've called Cassava and they said they don't know. Let me contact Operation department but only per email. So I can only wait now!!!!

 

[caruso]

In other words, they have warned this player that he is no longer welcome there and any attempt to regain entrance would constitute player fraud on his part.

Looks like somebody is on Santa's naughty list. What did you do?

You can be sure that if there'd been the slightest whiff of ACTUAL fraud, they'd have mentioned it. They didn't - all they came out with was the usual "abusing our generosity" speel. They're unhappy he's been grabbing too many bonuses are now want to make him sweat his 3K deposit.

Can't say as I'm overly shocked.

Anyone with time to spare would do a lot worse than reading this thread. Might make you think twice about going anywhere near CON's lil' black-sheep brother, a.k.a Grief Club.

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[Slotmachine]

Anyone with time to spare would do a lot worse than reading this thread. Might make you think twice about going anywhere near CON's lil' black-sheep brother, a.k.a Grief Club.

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Hi Caruso,

To me that thread (2 years old BTW) looks just like a few bonus-hunters bashing a casino. OK Reef club was stupid and generated a lot of bad publicity by handling the issues poorly, but while I understand that some people are out to make a profit playing bonuses only, and it's their right to do so, I have no sympathy for the bonus-hunters complaining when they get burned because they're just making life harder (by way of forcing the casinos to implement all sorts of complicated T&C's and delays and overloading their CS) for ordinary gamblers such as myself who actually work for a living and play for fun.

I do agree Caruso that retroactive implementation of new T&C's is completely wrong, but it looks like Reef club paid everyone their winnings and just withheld the bonuses from the alleged bonus-abusers. It was already there in their T&C's so it's their right to do so.

Anyway, it seems that Reef Club has the eCogra seal, so I expect that they've done something right, and if luangwang has a legit case, he should get his money back by complaining to eCogra and by leaving a PAB with the meister. If not, he's probably just a bonus hunter trying to bash a casino he didn't profit from.

Now I'm not accusing Luangwang of anything, just thinking out loud.

A side note: Judging by the general quality of the posts at the WOL forum, I must say I'm really impressed at the quality of the posts here at the Meister forums. Much more civilized, less abusive, and well thought-out posts here. The WOL thread was 90% redundant ranting. Don't see that here too much. And Caruso I value your posts here at the CM forum a lot.

Kudos to Bryan for the quality forums!

Cheers,
SM

 

[Macgyver]

To me that thread (2 years old BTW) looks just like a few bonus-hunters bashing a casino. OK Reef club was stupid and generated a lot of bad publicity by handling the issues poorly, but while I understand that some people are out to make a profit playing bonuses only, and it's their right to do so, I have no sympathy for the bonus-hunters complaining when they get burned because they're just making life harder (by way of forcing the casinos to implement all sorts of complicated T&C's and delays and overloading their CS) for ordinary gamblers such as myself who actually work for a living and play for fun.

As a "bonus-hunter" (just check out my signature), I'm going to have to take issue with the latter part of the above quote.

Personally, I do have sympathy for people (like me) who play with a bonus, but follow all the rules and T&C to the letter. Yes, there are those who will create multiple identities and flood a casino's userbase to wrongfully take advantage of an offer.

On the other side, there are some casinos who will use stalling tactics or outright deception to not hold up their end of the bargain. To tar "bonus-hunters" with such a broad brush ignores the fact that there are casinos out there with incompetent CS and terrible business practices that have nothing to do with bonuses.

Just as not all casinos are "rogue", all "bonus-hunters" are not in some seperate class from "ordinary gamblers." We're still gambling just like you are, we just prefer to get as much of an advantage as we can.

 

[amandajm]

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(and You Should Too)

 

[Macgyver]

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(and You Should Too)

:notworthy to amandajm for listing that article ... makes me wonder if the author is the "mary" who posts here, but that may just be my mind trying to make connections. Just like trying to find patterns in blackjack play to exploit ...

Only thing I don't like about it?

I didn't write it!

 

[Slotmachine]

On the other side, there are some casinos who will use stalling tactics or outright deception to not hold up their end of the bargain. To tar "bonus-hunters" with such a broad brush ignores the fact that there are casinos out there with incompetent CS and terrible business practices that have nothing to do with bonuses.

I agree completely

Just as not all casinos are "rogue", all "bonus-hunters" are not in some seperate class from "ordinary gamblers." We're still gambling just like you are, we just prefer to get as much of an advantage as we can.

..and I have absolutely no problem with that. I take all the bonuses I'm offered, and I even refuse to play at Sands of the Caribbean because they refuse to give me the loyalty bonus just because of my nationality.. (because of the "abusers" ) I also play without bonuses, and I don't hunt sign-up bonuses at all.

I was referring to the.. what should I call them... bonus-punters?... who are hell bent on making a profit and if they get burned, they flood the forums and flood the casino CS with all sorts of threats, and can even give an entire nation a bad name... and make life harder for ordinary gamblers, also for the bonus-users.

I agree that it's kind of absurd to accuse someone of bonus abuse if they adhere to the casino's own T&C's. Go figure.. The competition is fierce, and the casino business is often shady...

But there are casinos who can handle their own T&C's. For instance (again), I've never heard a bonus-related complaint about 32Red.

Maybe I expressed myself in a somewhat black-n-white manner earlier, but hope this cleared things up a bit

Cheers,
SM

 

[caruso]

:notworthy to amandajm for listing that article ... makes me wonder if the author is the "mary" who posts here, but that may just be my mind trying to make connections.

Yes, it's the same Mary.

I do agree Caruso that retroactive implementation of new T&C's is completely wrong, but it looks like Reef club paid everyone their winnings and just withheld the bonuses from the alleged bonus-abusers. It was already there in their T&C's so it's their right to do so.

Indeed it is. Crooks only invoke that "rule" - and the crooks did, on this occasion. Imagine what would happen if Intercasino or 32red tried this.

Anyway, it seems that Reef Club has the eCogra seal, so I expect that they've done something right.

ReefClub was granted an Ecogra seal because they are Cassava. Cassava - along with Microgaming - are financial backers of Ecogra, ostensible "independence" of the Ecogra directors notwithstanding.

Rather like me granting myself the "Caruso Seal Of Approval". I suppose nobody else will.

 

[Slotmachine]

Indeed it is. Crooks only invoke that "rule" - and the crooks did, on this occasion. Imagine what would happen if Intercasino or 32red tried this.

Yes, it would be odd to say the least.

ReefClub was granted an Ecogra seal because they are Cassava. Cassava - along with Microgaming - are financial backers of Ecogra, ostensible "independence" of the Ecogra directors notwithstanding. Rather like me granting myself the "Caruso Seal Of Approval". I suppose nobody else will.

So you're questioning the integrity of eCogra and saying they're biased because of their financial backing. As I'm not familiar with the deeper goings-on in the business, I can't argue your point one way or the other. I'll just say I'd be very disappointed if eCogra gave their stamp automatically to any casino that's affiliated with one of their backers.

I've always wondered why 32Red does not have the eCogra seal, or actually I've wondered why they don't want it. Somewhere on this forum one of the top guys at 32Red quite clearly said that 32Red has nothing to do with eCogra, and the tone was such that between the lines it could be read that they might not desire such a connection. Personally I'd rather have the "32Red seal of approval" than eCogra seal of approval, although I'm not questioning the bona fide intent of eCogra (further evidence of bias pending)

Caruso, which casinos would you give the "Caruso seal of approval"? I'd be interested to know, as I'm sure you have strict conditions. Thanks,

SM

 

[caruso]

So you're questioning the integrity of eCogra and saying they're biased because of their financial backing. As I'm not familiar with the deeper goings-on in the business, I can't argue your point one way or the other. I'll just say I'd be very disappointed if eCogra gave their stamp automatically to any casino that's affiliated with one of their backers.

I've always wondered why 32Red does not have the eCogra seal, or actually I've wondered why they don't want it. Somewhere on this forum one of the top guys at 32Red quite clearly said that 32Red has nothing to do with eCogra, and the tone was such that between the lines it could be read that they might not desire such a connection. Personally I'd rather have the "32Red seal of approval" than eCogra seal of approval, although I'm not questioning the bona fide intent of eCogra (further evidence of bias pending)

Caruso, which casinos would you give the "Caruso seal of approval"? I'd be interested to know, as I'm sure you have strict conditions. Thanks,

SM

The Ecogra subject is a long and thorny one. The directors are ostensibly independent - this fact is always the first port of call for the Ecogra backers, and it cannot be disputed on the face of it.

Look at it this way: Caruso employs Slotmachine to oversee some project of his. Since Caruso pays for the overseeing, without a little ostensibly independent corroboration the validation is clearly worthless, so Caruso empowers Slotmachine to hire an "independent" party to validate SM's overseeing; of course, Caruso's money is also paying the independent third party insofar as SM pays them from his pocket, whose pocket is lined by Caruso. And even if they were not, SM and Third Party are friends, colleagues and generally thick as thieves (no pun intended), so Third Party is hardly going to do the dirty on SM, are they they? Caruso's project is indeed validated by said Third Party.

How should an investor in Caruso's little project feel about this "validation" job, at this point? How should they feel about this "self-regulation"?

Let's cast the net wider still: Caruso joins a trade organization on the back of his little project; the two of them shake hands, do all the right PR and tell the world how mutually beneficial this alliance is and how generally wonderful they both are; unfortunately, Caruso's little project does, in fact, violate just about every recommended guideline that this trade organization advocates in its charter. Apparently, neither Caruso nor said organization have a problem with this.

Ah, and let's not overlook the technical side. This is also validated by a third party. Sadly, Caruso will not tell you who this third party is nor how they reach their conclusions; neither will any of this information ever be made public - Caruso wants you to take this on good faith, based on his good character as evinced up to now.

How is Caruso's little project doing now, Mister Investor?

My list? That's a tough one. It's got slowly wittled away to almost nothing.

Intercasino: used to be unscathed, but then there was the little Double Bonus episode. They fell off the throne at this point. I can't recommend casinos that behave like this (which doesn't mean I won't play there - hypocritical or what??), but they're otherwise as solid as a bank.

Ritz: pretty clean actually. That's it for the Cryptos. I used to go for Sands, but they pulled a stunt on me, so that's them on the slag heap.

Inetbet: clean. That's it for RTG.

Bet365 and Acropolis: no stunts I know of, and backed by UK corporations. That's it for Playtech.

Spin Palace / Ruby Fortune: pretty clean, but a recent promo rethink, uncommunicated to either players or CSRs, left players without promised bonuses.

Trident: actually, the only MG operation I can think of with a clean bill of health. Out of about 100 licensees, there had to be one! That's it for Microgaming.

Boss? Forget it. Don't even get me started. Remember those 100K jackpots they filched?

Harrods: no issues I can think of.

That's a hastily put together list, which would require much tweaking to ever be remotely comprehensive.

 

[caruso]

Back on track:

Today I've received an email from Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd, which informed me, that they has closed my account because of my "abusing their generosity". I don't want to argue with them about it. But I've over $3000 in my account and they don't refund my deposit which I've made BEFORE their emai!!!!!

Clearly, this player must be refunded his deposits and winnings.

 

[Aindreas_Daoc]

Could the original poster (luanwang) come out and explicitly state that he/she does not have multiple accounts at Reef Club?

 

[Slotmachine]

Trident: actually, the only MG operation I can think of with a clean bill of health. Out of about 100 licensees, there had to be one! That's it for Microgaming.

Thanks Caruso for the list. I'm sure it's well researched

Out of curiosity, why did 32Red not make your list?

Cheers,
SM

 

[mikepipe]

Aindreas Daoc:
To me it seemed clear that he has more (several?) accounts at Cassava, i quote the casino Reps mail:

Dear X,

I am Stuart from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises
(Gibraltar) Ltd., and I am writing in response to your email relating
to
your Casino-on-Net account with the username "xxxx".

X, I have reviewed your Casino-On-Net accounts. I have found a
pattern
emerging with your accounts in our systems which indicate you are
abusing our generosity.

Maybe there is a - still - hidden key - but anyway, the deposits should be refunded unless the accuse him of players fraud, which they obviously dont do.

 

[largeeyes]

Aindreas Daoc:
To me it seemed clear that he has more (several?) accounts at Cassava, i quote the casino Reps mail:

Dear X,

I am Stuart from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises
(Gibraltar) Ltd., and I am writing in response to your email relating
to
your Casino-on-Net account with the username "xxxx".

X, I have reviewed your Casino-On-Net accounts. I have found a
pattern
emerging with your accounts in our systems which indicate you are
abusing our generosity.

Maybe there is a - still - hidden key - but anyway, the deposits should be refunded unless the accuse him of players fraud, which they obviously dont do.

If you have an CON and a Reef Club account, don't you then have multiple cassava "accounts"?