Casino Complaint Question for Mysticjoz...

[mojo]

It's not funny but at this rate we'll see mystic getting paid around Christmas. Really, I am getting upset about this and I dont even know the parties! Sorry, I'll be quiet now.

 

[RobWin]

It's not funny but at this rate we'll see mystic getting paid around Christmas. Really, I am getting upset about this and I dont even know the parties! Sorry, I'll be quiet now.

Not according to Bryans post...he said she is not getting paid !!

 

[mojo]

Could you direct us to Bryans post saying she will not be paid? Thank You.

 

[mojo]

Nevermind, I found it! Thank you Rob for all your help.

 

[Casinomeister]

Bryan, did Todd state any particular reason why Mysticjoz would not be getting paid regarding her issue ??

Well, she was playing with a free chip that has limits on the payout. She also had a history of receiving more free chips than deposits which according to the terms and conditions limits the player's winnings as well. J.Todd didn't have to tell me this - I knew this from when the complaint was first lodged here.

I have the feeling that Mysticjoz doesn't like the fact that it seemed that she had won. She became ecstatic and spent the money in her head before the casino had a chance to audit her account and remove the percentage of winnings they weren't going to pay. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

 

[mojo]

Well, she was playing with a free chip that has limits on the payout. She also had a history of receiving more free chips than deposits which according to the terms and conditions limits the player's winnings as well. J.Todd didn't have to tell me this - I knew this from when the complaint was first lodged here.

I have the feeling that Mysticjoz doesn't like the fact that it seemed that she had won. She became ecstatic and spent the money in her head before the casino had a chance to audit her account and remove the percentage of winnings they weren't going to pay. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

I usually agree with you CM but in this case the above just doesn't cut it. JMO. I feel Mystic got lucky. If this player had a 'history' of free chips, perhaps the free chip offer shouldn't have been in place. The casino offered it and it was taken. No harm no foul.
Could you please elaborate on this:

She also had a history of receiving more free chips than deposits which according to the terms and conditions limits the player's winnings as well.

And this:

She became ecstatic and spent the money in her head before the casino had a chance to audit her account and remove the percentage of winnings they weren't going to pay

Audit her account? Remove the percentage they weren't going to pay? What does that mean? I have to ask!

Thanks for your help.

 

[KasinoKing]

I usually agree with you CM but in this case the above just doesn't cut it. JMO. I feel Mystic got lucky. If this player had a 'history' of free chips, perhaps the free chip offer shouldn't have been in place. The casino offered it and it was taken. No harm no foul.
Could you please elaborate on this:

Audit her account? Remove the percentage they weren't going to pay? What does that mean? I have to ask!

Thanks for your help.

When you accept any bonus at any casino you have to accept the T&C's attached to it.
The casinos can have any rules they want. Whether you, I or anyone else likes those T&C's is a separate issue.
If you don't like them - don't take the bonus.
1st rule of playing casinos; always read the T&C's first.

(Not having a go at Mystic or anyone else - I've even done it myself. Lesson learned).
KK

 

[RobWin]

When you accept any bonus at any casino you have to accept the T&C's attached to it.
The casinos can have any rules they want. Whether you, I or anyone else likes those T&C's is a separate issue.
If you don't like them - don't take the bonus.
1st rule of playing casinos; always read the T&C's first.

(Not having a go at Mystic or anyone else - I've even done it myself. Lesson learned).
KK

Yea, I agree KK...that's the same way my free chips also work that I receive from Clubworld, 10X max cashout on the free chip...

 

[lee_bumble]

sorry to butt in!!

The problem here is the fact that the random jackpot was won on a free chip. free chips from these casinos have limits. I'll explain.
1.you can only cash them out if the last transaction you made was a deposit.
2.if the chip was for say $50. you would only be able to cash out probably x2 the chip value. so that would be $100. that is if you meet the wagering requirements which is usually x20 or x25 x$50
personally i would only use those chips just for a bit of fun. the chances of getting paid from these casinos seems to be a bit of a mine field.
if you are going to play then i would suggest you use the coupons with no restrictions on the amount you can cash out. then if you do get lucky and hit the random jackpot you would be within your right to claim the full amount.
if you do have trouble getting paid then contact the central dispute system and they will help you. a little slow but hey, it worked for me.

 

[anniemac]

The T&C's on a free chip are XXtimes the chip. Yes, that is true. I have no problem with that as I play on free chips myself.

But if the party that brought all this mess up in the first place knew what was going on as was stated in the original post, then why was it brought up for in the first place? It wasn't Mysticjoz. Why dredge up something that evidently was handled when it happened? If you want your problem brought to light, then do so. Just don't drag someone else in it with you.

Personally, the whole mess just stinks. And yes, I am a friend of Mysticjoz but that's not the point. I would feel the same way if it was anyone else.

 

[chuchu59]

Mystic,

Get well soon. Are you on physiotherapy now? I just hope the situation doesnt deteriorate.

I couldnt follow this thread. Did they pay you anything at all? Or were you given the value of x amount the free chip?

 

[anniemac]

Just for informations sake, I went back a read Mystic's original post on this. According to the post, she was playing with her own money, $25 deposit, no bonus. According to the OP on the POC thread, she had personal knowledge that the RJ was won fair and square and that MJ should have been paid.

Now, what is the truth?

If a casino withholds payment on a win because a player has gotten free chips, then I am screwed too. At one time Rivals were throwing out free chips like they were candy. POC gives more free chips than any casino I have ever seen. Only stipulation I ever saw was that you had to deposit in between free chips.

I stand by my statement that this whole things smells worse than an outhouse in the summer.

 

[winbig]

Just for informations sake, I went back a read Mystic's original post on this. According to the post, she was playing with her own money, $25 deposit, no bonus. According to the OP on the POC thread, she had personal knowledge that the RJ was won fair and square and that MJ should have been paid.

Now, what is the truth?

If a casino withholds payment on a win because a player has gotten free chips, then I am screwed too. At one time Rivals were throwing out free chips like they were candy. POC gives more free chips than any casino I have ever seen. Only stipulation I ever saw was that you had to deposit in between free chips.

I stand by my statement that this whole things smells worse than an outhouse in the summer.

IIRC, they threw out the FU clause, which in this case was lifetime bonuses = more than a certain % of deposits. The problem is, it's their word against hers.

 

[Casinomeister]

I believe she was mistaken, but even if it were her own money, the casino pointed at this in their terms and conditions:

Lifetime Max Cash-out Rule: When a players total amount of bonuses received over the lifetime of their account is greater than or equal to the total amount of deposits made, the maximum cash-out will be ten times the deposit from which the player hit their win.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If I recall correctly, she had deposited $1000 at this point but had received $3000 worth of "free" chips. She won $2500 and the casino paid her $250.

Disclaimer: I'm basing this off of my memory since I'm dealing with several projects at the moment and haven't looked anything up.

 

[LaurieJim]

i just know what was said to me, mystic won her r/j on what i was told was a 20.00 deposit not 25.00 and that "he" was not going to pay her, she got lucky after having a few free chips before, made a deposit with no bonus and hit, pissed them off and he didnt want to pay, so do you take the word of that casino or a player who has the chats as proof of her wins," yes we are gonna pay you", "no we are not"? i also believe that VWM also assisted in mystics case by showing that she didnt go over her life time free chips? correct me if im wrong.if they didnt owe her, why did they pay her a small amount of it, over the 10X amount if im not mistaken, had it been a free chip? that shows to me that they were taking advantage of someone who needed the money at the time and they gave her what they wanted to not what she was entitled to, and yes it does stink annie but dont be placing the blame or implying blame on my part, you wanna get mad at someone get mad at poc and at dean newhouse the manager at the time, they make up rules as they go along and if you will look if they havent taken it out of their t/c,all final decisions is up to the manager .........................laurie

 

[Pinababy69]

Personally, the whole mess just stinks.

Hey Annie, of course it stinks.....Virtual is involved. Anything to do with them always has a stench about it. I'm gonna keep it brief, cause I don't wanna go off on one of my eyeball poppin', foaming at the mouth rants.

I doubt when the OP brought this case up again, that they knew the whole story. Probably just going on "gossip" from the casino, and how reliable is that, given the source. But when it did come up, I remember thinking to myself.....this is not one of the Virtual cases that I would dredge up in hopes of recovering payment. I remember the original thread very well, and I was personally never convinced one way or another what the facts were. Last I had heard was that Vinylweatherman was taking all of Mystic's records, and going to sort them into some sort of order, and perhaps put them on a spread sheet or something. That was the last we ever heard about any actual "facts or figures".

While I know it's a terrible thing to do, I think at least some of us assumed that perhaps that meant that Mystic had indeed "violated" this lifetime deposit to bonus ratio rule (which I think is bullshit by the way).

I "think" she won over 8K altogether between Blackjack and a RJ? And if I remember correctly, PoC WU'd her around $1000 or so? Mystic can clarify that. I remember at the time thinking that she was lucky to get that even, and I also posted that.

That lifetime deposit to bonus ratio rule I don't think is exclusive to Virtual, but I could be wrong. Pretty sure you won't find it at ClubWorld or Inetbet, but if you play any RTG, it's worth checking their T&C's with a fine tooth comb. Why do you think that Virtual throws so many free chips at players like they're candy? For exactly this reason....so that even if someone ever wins big off a straight deposit, the casino has this to fall back on. Most players would never dream they wouldn't be able to cashout their full winnings off a straight deposit.

This whole experience is just another reminder why no one should ever play at a Virtual casino, and why no affiliate should ever promote them, period. No excuses, and no exceptions. If I could obliterate them off the online gaming map, they'd be gone today!!

DON'T PLAY AT VIRTUAL.

 

[Pinababy69]

Oooops, lol. I just saw Lauriejim's post. I'd have to go back and look at the thread, but I think the reason they paid her anything at all Laurie was because she threatened to charge back all the deposits she had made with them up to that point? Or have her bank investigate them? Something like that..... Can't say that I blame her either. They took her for a ride, no doubt about it. And I'm sorry if she got some false hope from Laurie's original post....but I seriously doubt there was any malicious intent on her part. Again, just sharing info that a casino gave her. A casino which couldn't be trusted to pay their elderly grandmother legitimate winnings.

Like Annie said, it stinks. But nothing to be done about it.

 

[RobWin]

I "think" she won over 8K altogether between Blackjack and a RJ? And if I remember correctly, PoC WU'd her around $1000 or so? Mystic can clarify that. I remember at the time thinking that she was lucky to get that even, and I also posted that.

I believe she was mistaken, but even if it were her own money, the casino pointed at this in their terms and conditions:

If I recall correctly, she had deposited $1000 at this point but had received $3000 worth of "free" chips. She won $2500 and the casino paid her $250.

Disclaimer: I'm basing this off of my memory since I'm dealing with several projects at the moment and haven't looked anything up.

So there was an original settlement offered and accepted by Mystic back then ??

Mystic can you clarify this for us please...

 

[mysticjoz]

Pina.. your amounts are correct. EXCEPT the free chips. The final numbers did come out and showed that my deposits did exceed the amount of free chips recieved. When they refer to the OP. I think they are talking about this thread https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...secrets-behind-palace-of-chance-casino.26678/ as this is the one that started it all over again.

CM.. If you reread my original thread .. Andre repeatedly changed the amount of free chips I recieved, I believe he changed it 3 or 4 times in 2 chats. from $1000 and in the end he was saying $3000. And I won on a cash deposit. No bonus taken.

No one wants to remember that the unauthorized withdrawals from my bank account were reimbursed via "free chips"... which with the way POC operates would put any player into the lifetime bonus/deposit clause.

VWM DID do the numbers (there were 72 pages of transactions).. I have requested repeatedly that this info be forwarded back to me and it has not.
BUT regardless of these facts...
I never asked for this can of worms to be opened back up again. Yes, Pina..like you said "I was lucky to get that" (at the time). but like I said. I never asked for this to be brought back up. What I see right now is once again members want to question my integrity ("if she was telling the truth"... "I hope we all know her better than that") .. Which again leads me to wonder why was this whole issue brought up again because it was NOT brought up by me.

There is only one point I want you ALL to see .. which is..I have nothing to hide and no reason to defend myself, because I have done no wrong and told no lies. I am not the one who opened this whole thing back up. I certainly had already resolved myself to the fact that I was not paid a legit win on a cash deposit. I did not come back and kick and scream again and say "why don't they just pay me now".., it was brought back to light by someone else... NOT ME!
I have just spent the past month biting my tongue and wondering why this whole thing was brought back out into the open. Yes, it may have been "good intentions" on the OP's part (of dirty secret), but to be honest I was raised that actions speak louder than words. So far any info provided to me has been bogus (ie: email addy's were returned by mailer damon)
But Please don't make it seem like I am a greedy soul who just wants to be paid an illigitimate win, I did NOT start all this back up again. I did NOT admit to knowing "dirty little secrets" or however you want to categorize it, ("bribery", "extortion", "hush-money" "money-laundering") I have heard all of these when referring to "IT".. .

SO .. can we please point the spotlight where it needs to be pointed to resolve the issue?? OR just do the easiest thing and LET IT GO IF the only intention in the beginning was an ulterior motive than "doing what was right"

IMO it's easier for the higher ups to say "mysticjoz did this wrong and that wrong" for two reasons.
1) they don't have the person who claimed to fight for what was right .. up there fighting.
2) it's easier than fighting with a rogue casino to pay a player.
FYI.. JTodd did NOT tell me I would not be paid. Last I heard he asked me a couple questions regarding the situation and that was that.

rob there was no "original settlement" there were unauthoried charges to my bank account when I was playing with a reversed cashout.
when I won and they would NOT pay after calling my house and telling me I would be paid I was told by members HERE to threaten charge backs Which I did... this only got me $1000, but it was better than nothing.

 

[mysticjoz]

Rob.. that "$250.00 was $250.00 of unauthorized withdrawals from my back account which POC paid BACK to me via FREE chips"...

Can I ask why I am being asked to clarify ANYTHING at all....

I am NOT the one who brought this all back up again... In case we all forget.
Or..Was this the real reason it was brought back up?? To have forum members question ME?? Like I was asking to be paid? or question my honesty and integrity?? because I have yet to see any actions showing the OP's declared intent.

well they say to rid yourself of guilt will make one feel better, we are gonna find out now!!! i used to play at palace of chance long before i was a regular on casinomeister and i spent many many thousands of dollars there, enough to buy a home with(small). where to start hum? i won alot of money back last year when dean was manager and i kept getting jerked around left and right, some money did come in after christmas but out of that i had to send dean 500.00 for helping me get paid faster, i also sent an employee there 500.00 so that he could go home and also 250.00 more for medication, im too friggin kind hearted.i also was told a secret and had to promise not to tell(breaking promise, something i dont do) mysticjoz you know that jackpot you won, well you did win it fairly but they didnt want to pay cause you won on a 20.00 deposit..i am no longer v.i.p there and had them close all my accounts even though i do get a 500.00 free chip a month 10x playthru 1 times max cashout, got bored today and have they changed the rules lol, its not worth the 500.00 a month to keep all that inside. i will say that cindy is a sweet person and i mean her no ill will but to many lies to many secrets and i feel so much better now, hope you guys will forgive me for holding in all this info........please for the sake of your sanity and money do not play at any of those casinos, close out your accounts and fast, just as i have done.....another bridge burnt behind me.......................and if that person i sent that money to is reading and they do read this forum, i want my 750.00 back ,i dont really expect to get it back, just a life lesson learned the hard way.............laurie(a soul cleansed)

I am already dealing with enough.. (medically).. so please direct all your questions in the right direction because it was NOT me who dug this one out of the past.

 

[RobWin]

rob there was no "original settlement" there were unauthoried charges to my bank account when I was playing with a reversed cashout.
when I won and they would NOT pay after calling my house and telling me I would be paid I was told by members HERE to threaten charge backs Which I did... this only got me $1000, but it was better than nothing.

Mystic, nothing personal..I was just trying to get a couple of facts straight as Bryan & Pina both mentioned different settlement or payoff amounts, I have no ulterior motive other than just trying to understand this with clarity since I got involved on your behalf over at Todd's forum...

Just to be crystal clear...I ain't got no dog in this hunt !! I just wanted to see you get paid what was rightfully yours and I was not aware you had already been paid $1,000 of your winnings there, and I am thinking that POC must have looked upon this payout as settlement in full and case closed judging by what Todd told Bryan...is that correct ?

 

[LaurieJim]

Rob.. that "$250.00 was $250.00 of unauthorized withdrawals from my back account which POC paid BACK to me via FREE chips"...

Can I ask why I am being asked to clarify ANYTHING at all....

I am NOT the one who brought this all back up again... In case we all forget.
Or..Was this the real reason it was brought back up?? To have forum members question ME?? Like I was asking to be paid? or question my honesty and integrity?? because I have yet to see any actions showing the OP's declared intent.



I am already dealing with enough.. (medically).. so please direct all your questions in the right direction because it was NOT me who dug this one out of the past.

have i questioned your integrity? NO!!! i didnt start this thread, as i told you what info i have has nothing to do with you directly, i gave you the facts of what was known to me and i think i have said im sorry enough to last a freaking lifetime, i really was hoping that you would get your money mystic, i had asked for that thread to be closed and it was and yet you post it again, so whats the point? want to make someone who tried to help look like they are not being honest, i dont owe you nothing, the casino prolly does, , i dont have to declare a damn thing to anyone about any intent on my part as that was already posted, i was told something, decided that this group of casinos needed to be brought down and gave you some info and tried to help get your money , i thought and still think your owed, so dont be going there with me sister your not the only one that has bad issues facing them in life, we all have them and i was trying to help, atleast steer people away from that casino group...........i wish you well in what ever life hands you but dont bash on this girl...................l/j

 

[mysticjoz]

Mystic, nothing personal..I was just trying to get a couple of facts straight as Bryan & Pina both mentioned different settlement or payoff amounts, I have no ulterior motive other than just trying to understand this with clarity since I got involved on your behalf over at Todd's forum...

Just to be crystal clear...I ain't got no dog in this hunt !! I just wanted to see you get paid what was rightfully yours and I was not aware you had already been paid $1,000 of your winnings there, and I am thinking that POC must have looked upon this payout as settlement in full and case closed judging by what Todd told Bryan...is that correct ?

Rob I do appreciate your help, I see it as sincere as I know you have no ulterior motive here. :notworthy
I believed I shed light on the $1000 payment I did recieve in LJ's thread, I am sorry if you missed that, and I also stated the only thing I signed stated that the payment recieved ensured POC that I would not proceed with any "chargebacks" regarding POC.

LJ.. your post is extremely harsh IMO. I did nothing here to deserve that type of disrespect. I forgave you and you keep bringing that up. It is a complete derail. So is the fact that many of us have bad issues facing them in life. I am more than aware of that!!. I have never sought pity but I will not allow you to minimize what I am going through. BTW.. In your thread you repeatedly say how you started the whole thing "to get me paid" " to right a wrong"

like i said dont care about my part but this is my mission to right what i know was being done to a fellow forum member and keeping a secret for so long, im sorry mystic even as we have never seen eye to eye on every issue, i still pray for your health and by god, im gonna get your money back, or go down still fighting...........laurie.....p.s this mgr. said he is a friend of j todds and glad hes onboard with this..................

i was told that about mystics win and had to promise not to say anything after i kept hounding dean about it, he said she had won on a 20.00 deposit but had several free chips before that and that he wasnt going to pay her as it was a 20.00 deposit, just like i told roger on the phone last night when he called, should i have come forward sooner? yes and i regret not doing so, now all i want to do is help get mystic her money back she won fair and square by bringing this out in the open, she would not have gotten it before thru p.a.b and we all know that, now the new management to save face must do the right thing and pay her, and the 500.00 free chip is kinda hard to play anymore when you have closed your accounts, so thats not the issue at hand, its holding this company responsable for screwing so many people around and now that my proof is in hand and they want to save what face they still may have, they need to pay mystic and all that have been screwed over by them.................laurie

These are ONLY 2 of your quotes... there are many, many more...
but here IMHO you did a 180 and you are treating me as if I have done or said something wrong. All I did was believe you. I emailed the addy's you gave me and they came right back to me. and then...... I didn't hear from you anymore.
I repeat.. I did not start this whole issue up again. So I honestly think you are being overly harsh toward me.

 

[RobWin]

Rob I do appreciate your help, I see it as sincere as I know you have no ulterior motive here. :notworthy
I believed I shed light on the $1000 payment I did recieve in LJ's thread, I am sorry if you missed that, and I also stated the only thing I signed stated that the payment recieved ensured POC that I would not proceed with any "chargebacks" regarding POC.

Thanks Mystic, and I also appreciate you clarifying that for me as I guess I did miss reading about that earlier...

 

[jas2587]

here is what VWM had to say about her
deposits to bonus

Number Crunching

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since this is now "public", yes, I am working on the numbers. What Mystic has provided are actual screenshots of the transaction records on her account. It is a "swine" to process as being images I cannot simply cut & paste the 74 pages into the spreadsheet.
I have already raised the point about the large number of "denied" coupons, and Mystic has replied to me with the same reason, the software routinely denies them, but CS grants them. If Mystic were not allowed these coupons, CS would have said NO!

Chris has specifically stated that Mystic has already received back more than was deposited, this may well be the easiest thing to prove or disprove, whereas analysing the bonuses may be harder due to this denied coupon business - much of the 74 pages are "padding" rather than figures, but I want to make note of it all.

Mystic has only made small deposits, but they have been frequent. She has by no means maxed out a coupon by depositing the amount needed to get the biggest bonus, and this pattern shows no signs of change toward the end (denied Random Jackpot).

Since I have the actual screenshots, there will be no accusations that Mystic "made up" the figures, so forget it Chris
__________________




Good Luck

Cindy