Q&A for Casino Club and "Real Player" concerning the confiscations of winnings

[thelawnet]

Now that is very interesting.
If this is provable I think it could help your case.

Your argument would be that if you had found a way to defraud or otherwise gain an advantage over a Boss media Casino then why would you perpetuate that behaviour at just One Casino when the natural and obvious thing to do would be to copy the process at other Casinos thus increasing your profit and decreasing the likelihood of detection.

That to me is quite a powerful argument as it would show that much of Casino Clubs claims are counterintuitive unless they have very strong evidence that proves otherwise.

I agree. It would be hard to show, though if the player used a web wallet such as Neteller, the logs from there would be some evidence.

I also find the fact that he played the blackjack sidebet game at 1 main and 75 sidebet, even though the sidebet only paid 98% (much less than the main game) to be a factor pointing towards him being a genuine gambler.

 

[realplayer]

I would like to answers some questions as best I can:

What happened after 3 August?

I dont have a moneybookers or neteller account. I paid in by bank transfer and paysafecard. I did not make a request for the money to be paid out, but I was planning to do so. I enquired with WebDollar as to whether the winnings could be transferred to my bank account and if there would be any problems due to the level of the amount. CC (the VIP manager, Ms Weiss) encouraged me on the telephone to continue playing on the grounds that there are still other jackpots which I can win on CC. There was only one email from 17 August in which a copy of my personal ID card was requested. I scanned in my personal ID card and sent it to CC by email. I received confirmation by email that the copy was received. On the same day I noticed that my account was blocked. I was told by telephone (support) that it is a security check and I dont need to worry about the money. Later this became your account is remaining closed and nobody can tell me why.
There was no official statement stating your winnings are not going to be paid out. I could have made an additional thousand phone calls, but that wouldnt have changed anything. For me it was clear: there is no money.

@thelawnet
In my initial post on the German forum I wrote Sie sind bei mir an der falschen Adresse. This is a German expression and simply means I cant do anything for you. It appears that you directly translated the sentence which resulted in a misunderstanding. It has nothing to do with an incorrect residential address.

continuation

As announced today, CC will not release any evidence in this forum. Based upon this statement, I have decided not to disclose any further details. I also cannot make any comments on other persons or players. These games (e.g. video poker) can only be played alone. I will make a statement on the current CC statement at a later date.

 

[thelawnet]

I would like to answers some questions as best I can:

What happened after 3 August?

I dont have a moneybookers or neteller account. I paid in by bank transfer and paysafecard. I did not make a request for the money to be paid out, but I was planning to do so. I enquired with WebDollar as to whether the winnings could be transferred to my bank account and if there would be any problems due to the level of the amount. CC (the VIP manager, Ms Weiss) encouraged me on the telephone to continue playing on the grounds that there are still other jackpots which I can win on CC.

This makes CC's claims of fraud sound less credible. Why would they tell him to lose the money on other jackpots if they were genuinely monitoring him?

And with the money coming via bank transfer from his own account, it's hard to see how any alter egos could be involved.

 

[Jufo]

CC (the VIP manager, Ms Weiss) encouraged me on the telephone to continue playing on the grounds that there are still other jackpots which I can win on CC.

Lol at "please do not withdraw so that you can lose it all back to us". Could they be any more transparent?

 

[kmay87]

Realplayer is going about this in a very professional way.

If he did everything Casino Club accused him of, I don't think this scenario would have occurred. More likely, he would have responded to every question without thought, perhaps in an attempt to win us over, and also to defame the casino. We've seen this happen plenty of times in the past.

I also admire that he doesn't seem put off by the potential legal fees Casino Club will impose on him, should he be unsuccessful. In my opinion, if he turns out to be a 'fraud' then these fees are justified. However, I don't think it would be fair for him to pay these if the only 'illegal' activity he partaked in was using a bot.

But with Casino Club seemingly conducting investigations, gathering reports and using solicitors, they too must be pretty confident in their approach. I think the one thing we can be certain of is this is going to end rather badly for one of the parties. Guessing at which one, however, is beyond me.

 

[paul02085]

I would guess it will end badly for the player. I think the "judge" has more incentive to side with the people paying them. Just my opinion but I dont like the smell of this at all.

 

[realplayer]

Letter of the CC Lawyer

There are many more questions as you are all aware, some quite delusional, like the supposed claim by Casino Club that the players BOT has predictive powers, well allow me to refrain from answer such ridiculous claims as we are not going to be dragged into a situation in which a respected and long-standing Online Casino such as Casino Club will have to comply with every whim within an online forum debate.
Casino Club

letter of the CC lawyer, read here:
"In particular the logarithm of the executed stakes and the handling of the cards confirm the suspicion that you used software to calculate statistical predictions on the possible events of the game".

or here:

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[uungy]

Am i the only one thinking this is part 2 of https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtgs-caribbean-21-lie.3458/ (this time without the bots or again without bots.... I dunno, I'm all confused now )

If there is a bot involved or not, its impossible for me to say, as I have no proof. Has Realplayer lied once? sounds like no. Either he has a very good alibi everytime, or he is not talking porkies.

Facts seem to be, CC have claimed that he recieved the docs, and he claimed he had, but at a different date, and interestingly no one has commented about that. CC claim he used a bot and if all transelations are correct, then thats absolute nonsense, as I find it hard to believe there is a software on this planet that cas read the future. The wizard has bet 20K on this, and would be prepared to pay it if anyone has any program to guarentee an outcome.

CC have claimed that other accounts have joned up together to play BJ and and take advantage of the bonus, however it strange it took them so long to close accounts, if the player had 30K in his account.

From the facts I have seen, which I understand CC are bnot prepared to disclose much,m however facts which are on the table seem to be pointing in one direction.

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

from the CC lawyer's letter:

Because the winnings from the aforementioned actions were used for further various games, your entire gaming account data, your nickname and your password have been deleted. An entitlement to the originally stated sum on your gaming account does not exist.

wow, i am not sure if i understand this correctly but are they (CC) allowed to just wipe out all the players data including transactions history and play logs without even archiving it?

 

[paul02085]

I think if realplayer doesnt have a 2nd account here they owe him the money. Realplayer, do you have a 2nd account as they are saying?

 

[kmay87]

I think if realplayer doesnt have a 2nd account here they owe him the money. Realplayer, do you have a 2nd account as they are saying?

Two problems with the above. Firstly, as I believe others mentioned, once upon a time at Casino Club you were allowed more than one account. Don't ask me why though. And secondly, if he does have a second account, under an apparent female alias, is he really going to admit to that

 

[paul02085]

Two problems with the above. Firstly, as I believe others mentioned, once upon a time at Casino Club you were allowed more than one account. Don't ask me why though. And secondly, if he does have a second account, under an apparent female alias, is he really going to admit to that

Dont know but i am asking anyway

 

[realplayer]

Realplayer, do you have a 2nd account as they are saying?

I have only 1 account, this is sure 100%

 

[thelawnet]

While I can somewhat understand their silence about realplayer, I disturbed that Casino Club have not felt fit to comment on the faulty blackjack game that they are operating.

Very poor behaviour.

 

[realplayer]

from the CC lawyer's letter:

Quote:
Because the winnings from the aforementioned actions were used for further various games, your entire gaming account data, your nickname and your password have been deleted. An entitlement to the originally stated sum on your gaming account does not exist.

My account is not deleted. This statement of the Lawyer is untrue.

an easy test:
If I use an invalid password or user name, come the error message "The user name or password you entered is incorrect. Please try again."

But, If I use my valid password and user name, come the error message " The account is closed....."

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

My account is not deleted. This statement of the Lawyer is untrue.

an easy test:
If I use an invalid password or user name, come the error message "The user name or password you entered is incorrect. Please try again."

But, If I use my valid password and user name, come the error message " The account is closed....."

yeah i am sure they have not, i was just questioning that statement...

 

[Rusty]

yeah i am sure they have not, i was just questioning that statement...

The statement makes no sense whatsoever like several others that come from CC's side of the argument.
They stated they were "watching" the player to find out how he was defrauding them. (forget that is another argument that makes little sense for a moment) so naturally this would be done through his playlogs.

To make an analogy using CC's own statements,
they were playing detective ("watching" the player to find out how he was defrauding them) , found the smoking gun (incriminating evidence in his account), arrested and locked up the player (confiscated winnings,misappropriated players deposit,closed account), charged the player with fraud (legal threats), prepared to present their evidence to the courts (LGA Malta,Legal options) and then promptly and deliberately destroyed every shred of evidence that would prove their case. (Delete all the players logs and account information)

I think it is fair to say their lawyers statement was inaccurate and it seems these inaccuracies are endemic to CC when it comes to this case.

If Casino Club are correct that Realplayer is a fraud or otherwise and the evidence proves conclusive then good luck to them but their handling of this case has been just dreadful.
Whatever the outcome I think some harsh lessons will of been learned.

 

[realplayer]

This i do not know. But i will look into it and come back to this forum as soon as i have an answer.

Obviously there is no answer.

 

[kmay87]

So, realplayer, can you explain just what the current situation is? This thread started promisingly but as of late has gone a bit off track, so we have yet another complex issue.

So, you reported this to the LGA, and you are waiting for a response. The casino contacted you via its lawyers, and has made clear on here that all costs will be brought against you if they win (in court I am presuming).

Just a couple of lines from you explaining this 'simply' would be appreciated.

 

[Pinababy69]

Only thing I'd like to add to this thread at present is.....if we are all sitting here waiting for Malta to respond, please don't anyone hold their breath. It could be a year or more.....and that's IF they even decide to render any decision at all, or reply to anyone.

Just adding that because that's where it seems this case is at....all dependent on a ruling from a regulatory entity that may never give one.

 

[paul02085]

Only thing I'd like to add to this thread at present is.....if we are all sitting here waiting for Malta to respond, please don't anyone hold their breath. It could be a year or more.....and that's IF they even decide to render any decision at all, or reply to anyone.

Just adding that because that's where it seems this case is at....all dependent on a ruling from a regulatory entity that may never give one.

Agree. IMO players should be wary of playing progressives at Casino Club until this is resolved one way or the other. If it turns out the casino is at fault i would hate to see anyone else possibly lose $160,000+. Also as Pina stated who knows if Malta will ever respond and also if they will be fair. Is a good idea to see what country/jurisdiction the casino you are going to play at is regulated by in case of these type issues.

I still think something is fishy in this case and i really hope somehow the whole truth comes out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Either something is getting lost in translation, or CC have made a poor choice of lawyer. All Realplayer has to do is use those lawyers letters in court. CC clearly didn't mean that this was in any way a "clairvoyant bot", but the lawyer seems to have misunderstood what a bot is, and what it does, and made an inaccurate statement of the "charges" in a LEGAL DOCUMENT.

Sometimes, the WRONG party can win a court case due to incompetence on the part of the legal representatives of the RIGHT (honest) party. Many lawbreakers get off on a "technicality" because the prosecution has prepared the case badly, or procedure was not followed.

Simply being one of a number of players from the same town is NOT "collusion", in fact, casinos with these "refer a friend" scheme are MORE likely to have "linked" players simply because a player has referred all their friends, and naturally, they are "linked" to all their friends in many ways.

Fraud would be different, and the use of the word "collusion" means something a little different. It suggests multiple accounts, where the "friends" referred did not actually play their own accounts, or did not even exist.

Moving money between accounts is NOT possible in standard casino games, collusion or not, but the recent trend of having tournaments and live tables has made it conceivable that something similar to "chip dumping" could be worked out in a casino environment.

A model of this would be the Microgaming "sit n go" tournaments that no-one seems to bother with. 5 "colluding" players could buy in, and decide beforehand who is going to win, thus we have, albeit on a VERY small scale, something akin to "chip dumping" in the MGS Viper lobby. IF MGS offered very high stakes and prizes, yet still a limit of 5 to 10 participants, they would be hit pretty hard by "chip dumping" type frauds, so perhaps this is why these tournaments have only ever offered prizes around $10 to $20 so far.
A similar thing could happen with multi player blackjack, assuming the "colluding" players could monopolise a table. It needn't be live Blackjack either, just multi-player.
The purpose of such collusion would be to transfer BONUS chips to a player with no WR on their account from those who have, something that has plagued poker sites for a while. Such collusion does not necessarily mean that fake IDs or multiple accounts were used.

Allowing a fraud to continue under surveillance is a tactic used by many police forces. There is a need to gather enough evidence to make a case stick, however it does carry the risk that this allows the fraudsters to gather in even more money, with no guarantee that they will be "busted" before they figure out they are being watched & run with the money.

Since there IS a bot for Boss Media Blackjack (plays "perfect strategy"), AND with multi-player tables & tournaments within a casino application it IS possible to "collude" in a similar manner as with poker rooms to gain from bonuses, it is entirely possible that CC have been taken by a pretty clever (until now) fraud because they neglected to have a dedicated fraud team until relatively recently.
All they now have to do is PROVE that this case is one of them.

If CC can PROVE fraud, they would be within their rights under UK contract law to recover their costs from the fraudster. This could be argued in a civil court, which would decide what most probably happened, and decide what costs CC would be allowed to recover. Any remaining balance from the confiscated deposit would have to be returned to realplayer. The MOST CC could easily recover is the money they have already seized, if they wante more THEY would have to take realplayer to court for it, and risk the possibility of losing, and the whole judgement going into reverse, having to PAY realplayer the Jackpot AND damages & costs.
IF LGA rule in favour of CC, I believe this is where CC will leave it. Pursuing realplayer further would only make this issue drag on for what could be YEARS more, and with no guarantee of success. It would likely be realplayer that would have to take CC to court should the LGA rule in favour of CC, and there surely would be a legal time limit for taking such action, after which the money could be returned to the pool.

Since CC have now stated on record that they have the money, and what will happen to it for each of the two outcomes of this case, there is little point in insisting they put it in escrow, lodge it with lawyers, etc. They will be held to account by the player community after this affair is resolved.

Advantage players have to realise that the days of "casibot" are up, and it is no longer such a "steal" at $250 or whatever. The casinos KNOW about it, and are watching for it. Hell, even I know about it

 

[realplayer]

CC begins roulette and blackjack tournaments middle of September 2008. See German CC magazine Nr.23, page 6:
Mit Roulette- und Black Jack-Turnieren, der neuesten Innovation im CASINO-CLUB, bieten sich den Gsten ab Mitte September
noch hhere Gewinnchancen und noch mehr Spa am Spiel

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My account was closed in August, 2008.

Let me say loud and clear, blackjack are not a poker game. Everybody plays independent of other players (at the same table or other tables). My stake and my actions (hit, stand, double down, split) are independent of other players.

Since there IS a bot for Boss Media Blackjack (plays "perfect strategy")

Please tell me, who is the provider(website) of this bot software?

 

[thelawnet]

A model of this would be the Microgaming "sit n go" tournaments that no-one seems to bother with. 5 "colluding" players could buy in, and decide beforehand who is going to win, thus we have, albeit on a VERY small scale, something akin to "chip dumping" in the MGS Viper lobby. IF MGS offered very high stakes and prizes, yet still a limit of 5 to 10 participants, they would be hit pretty hard by "chip dumping" type frauds, so perhaps this is why these tournaments have only ever offered prizes around $10 to $20 so far.

A similar thing could happen with multi player blackjack, assuming the "colluding" players could monopolise a table. It needn't be live Blackjack either, just multi-player.

The purpose of such collusion would be to transfer BONUS chips to a player with no WR on their account from those who have, something that has plagued poker sites for a while. Such collusion does not necessarily mean that fake IDs or multiple accounts were used.

Eh?

In multiplayer blackjack players play against the house. Not each other. It's just a slower version of normal blackjack, with more hands on show. Collusion is not possible.

Advantage players have to realise that the days of "casibot" are up, and it is no longer such a "steal" at $250 or whatever. The casinos KNOW about it, and are watching for it. Hell, even I know about it

Some casinos don't seem to be so bothered. Cryptologic have just introduced several autoplay blackjack games, and Microgaming haven't exactly gone out of business.

 

[Rusty]

If CC can PROVE fraud, they would be within their rights under UK contract law to recover their costs from the fraudster. This could be argued in a civil court, which would decide what most probably happened, and decide what costs CC would be allowed to recover. Any remaining balance from the confiscated deposit would have to be returned to realplayer.

If they believe the actual funding of the account was fraudulent they should have notified the proper authorities and explained they would hold the funds until the inquiry was complete.

They have never suggested that the deposit was fraudulent though so it should have been returned to the player when the account was closed.
No matter how vindicated CC feel they are in seizing the deposit they have misappropriated this money plain and simple, some would use stronger language.

They have acted arbitrarily of any lawful judgment or even a judgment by LGA Malta which is plain wrong.
Should they prove their case then they would be perfectly within their rights to pursue the player for all costs including any administration charges etc

That is how things are done in the civilized World but unfortunately this is Cowboy Town we are talking about.

 

[rupih]

New Informations out there now?

I don't understand at all, Casino Club claims they have Evidence against Realplayer, if so why is it taking so much time?

2nd thing which i don't understand is whats wrong with Bot playing?
I mean you will lose in the long run...with bot or without bot it doesnt make sense

 

[kmay87]

Lawsuit = years to formulate and go through the courts

Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it. If you do, be prepared for the worst.

But let's not derail this thread into bot use any more. It's all in this and the other thread if you desire to read more into it.

 

[thelawnet]

Lawsuit = years to formulate and go through the courts

Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it. If you do, be prepared for the worst.

But let's not derail this thread into bot use any more. It's all in this and the other thread if you desire to read more into it.

"Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it"

Actually it wasn't there in black and white. It was added long after the player joined. Even if he did use a bot (which I doubt), they would have to show they took steps to inform him of the change to their contract.

 

[The Dude]

I spoke with the rep in Amsterdam, and like it was mentioned before, they are awaiting the results from the LGA. So that's where this is at the moment.

 

[kmay87]

"Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it"

Actually it wasn't there in black and white. It was added long after the player joined. Even if he did use a bot (which I doubt), they would have to show they took steps to inform him of the change to their contract.

Maybe so, but it has still been part of their terms for a year or more. Provided they displayed words to the effect of these being changed on their website, this would be a suitable defence.

 

[deltoid]

I've been waiting to jump into this

Bot use is complete and utter poppycock. How do you detect bot use? Interval between bets/actions taken? A seasoned gambler can click so fast you'd think it's a machine playing. They can play for hours and hours on end, non stop (heck, I've played for 7 hours non stop before). Perfect play? Again, a seasoned gambler can do it. Detecting if the players bets were increased just as the game got 'hot' ? UTTER NONSENSE. If this were at all doable, then the casino is admitting that their games are predictable. The casino, and the software, would have been out of business a month in, no doubt. Besides all this, a bot could be programmed to be indistinguishable from a human with random delays between actions, and timed 'rest periods'.

No, after reading this and the other thread, it's clear to me that the casino is absolutely full of it in this case. If the player HAD been connected to someone else in a non-kosher manner, it was their responsibility to lock the account immediately, not allow the person to deposit and win .. or LOSE (which is what the casino wants) and then cry foul when the player cashes out.

Realplayer I wish you the best of luck, and until this is resolved I wouldn't just not play progressives at this "casino", I wouldn't even consider logging into it, or any casino running the same software, or casinos 'licensed' in the same jurisdiction!

Delts

 

[bluewhale]

so whats the deal here. i played 2v1 blackjack back last year and won over 20k euro which was completely voided. is there anyway i can get that paid out or what? if theres a bunch of us in the same boat a joint suit would be much easier on all of us to run right? has anyone got payment or heard back or in the middle of something here? thx.

 

[heador112]

Im sorry to bump this old Threat .


What was the result could Casino Club prove Real Player was a fraudster ?

 

[Zodiac]

Im sorry to bump this old Threat.
What was the result could Casino Club prove Real Player was a fraudster ?

I believe there is no any result and how one can see it give also no more advertising here. (or i have not seen)

And also no more rep here.

On the accredited section you will find only Gold Club and Sunset under Boss Media.

My opinion is that Bryan doing well on that and will let it also so.

There are incapable management and responsible persons in the background.
(please note that this is my personal opinion)

Fact is that they have lost so much of good reputation and they can't make it again good to get back a respectable reputation.

Many users will always keep it in their mind.

Should i am thinking wrong here please feel free to correct me or to post your opinion.

 

[The Dude]

Im sorry to bump this old Threat .


What was the result could Casino Club prove Real Player was a fraudster ?

As far as I know the player never went forward with his claims. He had all of the contact information to deal with this appropriately and effectively. I believe I offered to connect the player with another law firm in Germany that specializes in Gaming Law. (if not, I still have the info for him) He could have easily hired someone from that firm to pursue this. But nada - zilch.

So I think it's fair that everyone can make his own conclusion on this.

 

[uungy]

Any idea whats happened to the JP then?

 

[The Dude]

Any idea whats happened to the JP then?

No idea.

Obviously, this issue has fallen off of the radar. I've PMd the casino rep to see what's up. He hasn't visited the forum since last March, so don't hold your breath on any answer.

As for their listing here, this was dropped after they showed brazen reluctance to deal with this issue, and a number of others. Obviously, they did not value the relationship they had with Casinomeister members, and with being listed as an Accredited Casino. More than once Casino Club left me in the middle instead of tackling player issues directly. If a casino can't effectively stand up on it's own, I have no use for them here.

 

[uungy]

Strange! I have had and have, very good experiance with them. I dont personally think they are shady in any way at all, neverless they still have to be upfront and explain whats hapened to the JP.

 

[nitro]

I agree. realplayer, if you are being honest believe me this is the best place for you to come. You are making a big mistake if you are telling the truth and dont come onto this forum. People here will help you if you are legit!!!!

But if he isn't being honest but a gnome and if a casino is 100% sure on that but not willing to acknowledge & prove that there is such a thing as gnoming the result will be that the player in question will not show up because he is afraid of facing the truth and that the casino will leave CM after a while because despite being "right" on the issue people over here are not very helpul to prove that they are "legit" but constantly cause a lot of "hassle" instead.

 

[realplayer]

I think the most important issue that arises from all interventions is the following
a. The JP money is being held by Casino Club pending resolution of this case.
b. Casino Club has no intention to pocket this money unlawfully.

6) Has Casino Club submitted any evidence to the Maltese licensing authorities?
a. Indeed we have

Casino Club

@all

a brief summary

On the 3rd of August, 2008 I was lucky to win a jackpot (Videopoker) in the amount of about 168,000 €. Before I won this time, I already had about 30.000 € on my casino account. After that, the balance of my Casino Club account was at €198,756. 94.

I wanted to apply for a payout, but it did not come so far, because two weeks later my account was blocked. The customer service explained to me that it was a safety check which would last for some time. It turned out that my account was blocked permanently. On request, the customer service only gave the information that they could not help me.

I had the hope that a complaint at the LGA in Malta could help (filed in December 2008), but it did not. Unfortunately, I have never received an official answer by LGA. After more than a year (which means in 2010) I received an answer verbally. In March 2009 the LGA had begun to work on my complaint and requested Gaming VC to comment on the issue. The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one:

„Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “

There were no further references to the alleged accusations and evidence against my person. Instead, there was only the reference to the legal loophole.
There is no doubt the money is in the pockets of Casino Club.

realplayer

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Did you take legal action against them in Malta or the UK? They are a publicly quoted company so it's not like they can hide away from you. VC Gaming have a full UK stockmarket listing. You could buy shares and go to the AGM for example.

 

[realplayer]

You could buy shares and go to the AGM for example.

Good idea, but probably the next AGM in May 2011.

CC is registered and licensed in Malta under Gaming VC Corporation Limited and under the laws of Malta.

That is the loophole

This is an excerpt:
Article 1713 Malta Civil Code

(1) The law grants no action for a gaming debt, or for the payment of a bet.
(2) Nor does it grant any action -
(a) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person who
knew that such sum was intended for gaming;
(b) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person
interested in the game, for the payment of money lost
at such game.

 

[Rusty]

That is truly disgusting.
They steel your money and then quote law(or lack thereof) to vindicate it.

You must feel so bad about this and I can only sympathise with you and suggest you keep shouting about this and don't let it drop.
You may not ever see that money but you can at least make the bastards squirm and have a negative effect on their business.
I know that if this was pulled on me I would ensure it cost them.

You might like to try the Department for culture media and sport and ask them to look into this.

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Since they are the department that sanction which jurisdictions are whitelisted.
If you can find what provisions need to be made by them when granting a gaming jurisdiction whitelisted status you may have some legal arguments to back a case that those provisions were either not made or inadequate.

At the very least you can kick up a real shit storm for them and the LGA.
I would also consider contacting the media for some leverage if they try to ignore you.
I don't know which mainstream publication/s would be interested in this scandal but I am sure there are some.

I don't know if there is anyone here who is qualified to give you appropriate legal advice on whether the avenues I have suggested are worth pursuing, could you sue the Dcms for example?

 

[Pinababy69]

Another shining example of the LGA/Malta's utter lack of interest, balls, teeth or anything else. Just collect those annual licensing fees and move along. Eff the player.

And let's not forget that it wasn't only Realplayer who got screwed over here. The 167K (right figure?) was a progressive jackpot, and had they LEGITIMATELY ruled that he wasn't eligible, that money should have been returned to the progressive pool. Judging by Realplayer's post....I'm assuming it never was. So yet another instance where a casino snags progressive funds that they have no business in touching. They have ripped off each and every player who ever contributed to that progressive fund.

Thanks for coming back Realplayer, and posting. I am so sorry it wasn't a better result for you. It is exactly stuff like this that makes me personally want nothing to do with this industry. Slimy, sleazy, dirty...and absolutely CRIMINAL.

I would absolutely contact my local media....nothing to lose.

 

[GrandMaster]

Good idea, but probably the next AGM in May 2011.

CC is registered and licensed in Malta under Gaming VC Corporation Limited and under the laws of Malta.

That is the loophole

This is an excerpt:
Article 1713 Malta Civil Code

(1) The law grants no action for a gaming debt, or for the payment of a bet.
(2) Nor does it grant any action -
(a) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person who
knew that such sum was intended for gaming;
(b) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person
interested in the game, for the payment of money lost
at such game.

Not hiding behind this law should be the first condition of the licence.

 

[Rusty]

Another shining example of the LGA/Malta's utter lack of interest, balls, teeth or anything else. Just collect those annual licensing fees and move along. Eff the player.

And let's not forget that it wasn't only Realplayer who got screwed over here. The 167K (right figure?) was a progressive jackpot, and had they LEGITIMATELY ruled that he wasn't eligible, that money should have been returned to the progressive pool. Judging by Realplayer's post....I'm assuming it never was. So yet another instance where a casino snags progressive funds that they have no business in touching. They have ripped off each and every player who ever contributed to that progressive fund.

Thanks for coming back Realplayer, and posting. I am so sorry it wasn't a better result for you. It is exactly stuff like this that makes me personally want nothing to do with this industry. Slimy, sleazy, dirty...and absolutely CRIMINAL.

I would absolutely contact my local media....nothing to lose.

This is the real shame.
Most remote gambling regulatory bodies are just glorified affiliates with the pretence of being official but when it comes to actually cleaning up the industry or ensuring the player gets a fair game they turn their backs on their responsibilities.
It really is a mess and I don't absolve the UK or US governments from blame either. They have contributed to this lack of protection for their citizens in their own ways.

Perhaps we deserve it for enjoying gambling as means of entertainment.

 

[newjam]

Outrageous,this makes a mockery of the LGA as a licensing body, any non-paying casinos have a catch 22 get-out clause. I'm sure if you contacted the media there would be a journalist who would take this up. it's a 'good story' and it would show the LGA up as a sham. Widespread bad publicity is probably the only thing that can hurt them.

 

[jetset]

How Malta retains DCMS white-listed status absolutely defeats me - the LGA appears to be all smoke and mirrors with little real concern over the conduct of licensees vis-a-vis the players.

 

[jetset]

@all

a brief summary

On the 3rd of August, 2008 I was lucky to win a jackpot (Videopoker) in the amount of about 168,000 €. Before I won this time, I already had about 30.000 € on my casino account. After that, the balance of my Casino Club account was at €198,756. 94.

I wanted to apply for a payout, but it did not come so far, because two weeks later my account was blocked. The customer service explained to me that it was a safety check which would last for some time. It turned out that my account was blocked permanently. On request, the customer service only gave the information that they could not help me.

I had the hope that a complaint at the LGA in Malta could help (filed in December 2008), but it did not. Unfortunately, I have never received an official answer by LGA. After more than a year (which means in 2010) I received an answer verbally. In March 2009 the LGA had begun to work on my complaint and requested Gaming VC to comment on the issue. The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one:

„Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “

There were no further references to the alleged accusations and evidence against my person. Instead, there was only the reference to the legal loophole.
There is no doubt the money is in the pockets of Casino Club.

realplayer

Surely CC should now be asked to comment further?

How can a gambling company use a 'not obliged to pay a gambling obligation' to deny a player his winnings. It's plain crazy.

This is just not a satisfactory explanation for a listed gambling company that has denied this player a very substantial win.

 

[GrandMaster]

How Malta retains DCMS white-listed status absolutely defeats me - the LGA appears to be all smoke and mirrors with little real concern over the conduct of licensees vis-a-vis the players.

Malta is not whitelisted, but rather because it is in the EU, any company licensed there is allowed to operate in the UK.