Q&A for Casino Club and "Real Player" concerning the confiscations of winnings

[rupih]

New Informations out there now?

I don't understand at all, Casino Club claims they have Evidence against Realplayer, if so why is it taking so much time?

2nd thing which i don't understand is whats wrong with Bot playing?
I mean you will lose in the long run...with bot or without bot it doesnt make sense

 

[kmay87]

Lawsuit = years to formulate and go through the courts

Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it. If you do, be prepared for the worst.

But let's not derail this thread into bot use any more. It's all in this and the other thread if you desire to read more into it.

 

[thelawnet]

Lawsuit = years to formulate and go through the courts

Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it. If you do, be prepared for the worst.

But let's not derail this thread into bot use any more. It's all in this and the other thread if you desire to read more into it.

"Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it"

Actually it wasn't there in black and white. It was added long after the player joined. Even if he did use a bot (which I doubt), they would have to show they took steps to inform him of the change to their contract.

 

[Casinomeister]

I spoke with the rep in Amsterdam, and like it was mentioned before, they are awaiting the results from the LGA. So that's where this is at the moment.

 

[kmay87]

"Bot use = against casino's terms and conditions = more than a slap on the wrist.

If it's there in black and white, you don't do it"

Actually it wasn't there in black and white. It was added long after the player joined. Even if he did use a bot (which I doubt), they would have to show they took steps to inform him of the change to their contract.

Maybe so, but it has still been part of their terms for a year or more. Provided they displayed words to the effect of these being changed on their website, this would be a suitable defence.

 

[deltoid]

I've been waiting to jump into this

Bot use is complete and utter poppycock. How do you detect bot use? Interval between bets/actions taken? A seasoned gambler can click so fast you'd think it's a machine playing. They can play for hours and hours on end, non stop (heck, I've played for 7 hours non stop before). Perfect play? Again, a seasoned gambler can do it. Detecting if the players bets were increased just as the game got 'hot' ? UTTER NONSENSE. If this were at all doable, then the casino is admitting that their games are predictable. The casino, and the software, would have been out of business a month in, no doubt. Besides all this, a bot could be programmed to be indistinguishable from a human with random delays between actions, and timed 'rest periods'.

No, after reading this and the other thread, it's clear to me that the casino is absolutely full of it in this case. If the player HAD been connected to someone else in a non-kosher manner, it was their responsibility to lock the account immediately, not allow the person to deposit and win .. or LOSE (which is what the casino wants) and then cry foul when the player cashes out.

Realplayer I wish you the best of luck, and until this is resolved I wouldn't just not play progressives at this "casino", I wouldn't even consider logging into it, or any casino running the same software, or casinos 'licensed' in the same jurisdiction!

Delts

 

[bluewhale]

so whats the deal here. i played 2v1 blackjack back last year and won over 20k euro which was completely voided. is there anyway i can get that paid out or what? if theres a bunch of us in the same boat a joint suit would be much easier on all of us to run right? has anyone got payment or heard back or in the middle of something here? thx.

 

[heador112]

Im sorry to bump this old Threat .


What was the result could Casino Club prove Real Player was a fraudster ?

 

[Zodiac]

Im sorry to bump this old Threat.
What was the result could Casino Club prove Real Player was a fraudster ?

I believe there is no any result and how one can see it give also no more advertising here. (or i have not seen)

And also no more rep here.

On the accredited section you will find only Gold Club and Sunset under Boss Media.

My opinion is that Bryan doing well on that and will let it also so.

There are incapable management and responsible persons in the background.
(please note that this is my personal opinion)

Fact is that they have lost so much of good reputation and they can't make it again good to get back a respectable reputation.

Many users will always keep it in their mind.

Should i am thinking wrong here please feel free to correct me or to post your opinion.

 

[Casinomeister]

Im sorry to bump this old Threat .


What was the result could Casino Club prove Real Player was a fraudster ?

As far as I know the player never went forward with his claims. He had all of the contact information to deal with this appropriately and effectively. I believe I offered to connect the player with another law firm in Germany that specializes in Gaming Law. (if not, I still have the info for him) He could have easily hired someone from that firm to pursue this. But nada - zilch.

So I think it's fair that everyone can make his own conclusion on this.

 

[uungy]

Any idea whats happened to the JP then?

 

[Casinomeister]

Any idea whats happened to the JP then?

No idea.

Obviously, this issue has fallen off of the radar. I've PMd the casino rep to see what's up. He hasn't visited the forum since last March, so don't hold your breath on any answer.

As for their listing here, this was dropped after they showed brazen reluctance to deal with this issue, and a number of others. Obviously, they did not value the relationship they had with Casinomeister members, and with being listed as an Accredited Casino. More than once Casino Club left me in the middle instead of tackling player issues directly. If a casino can't effectively stand up on it's own, I have no use for them here.

 

[uungy]

Strange! I have had and have, very good experiance with them. I dont personally think they are shady in any way at all, neverless they still have to be upfront and explain whats hapened to the JP.

 

[nitro]

I agree. realplayer, if you are being honest believe me this is the best place for you to come. You are making a big mistake if you are telling the truth and dont come onto this forum. People here will help you if you are legit!!!!

But if he isn't being honest but a gnome and if a casino is 100% sure on that but not willing to acknowledge & prove that there is such a thing as gnoming the result will be that the player in question will not show up because he is afraid of facing the truth and that the casino will leave CM after a while because despite being "right" on the issue people over here are not very helpul to prove that they are "legit" but constantly cause a lot of "hassle" instead.

 

[realplayer]

I think the most important issue that arises from all interventions is the following
a. The JP money is being held by Casino Club pending resolution of this case.
b. Casino Club has no intention to pocket this money unlawfully.

6) Has Casino Club submitted any evidence to the Maltese licensing authorities?
a. Indeed we have

Casino Club

@all

a brief summary

On the 3rd of August, 2008 I was lucky to win a jackpot (Videopoker) in the amount of about 168,000 €. Before I won this time, I already had about 30.000 € on my casino account. After that, the balance of my Casino Club account was at €198,756. 94.

I wanted to apply for a payout, but it did not come so far, because two weeks later my account was blocked. The customer service explained to me that it was a safety check which would last for some time. It turned out that my account was blocked permanently. On request, the customer service only gave the information that they could not help me.

I had the hope that a complaint at the LGA in Malta could help (filed in December 2008), but it did not. Unfortunately, I have never received an official answer by LGA. After more than a year (which means in 2010) I received an answer verbally. In March 2009 the LGA had begun to work on my complaint and requested Gaming VC to comment on the issue. The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one:

„Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “

There were no further references to the alleged accusations and evidence against my person. Instead, there was only the reference to the legal loophole.
There is no doubt the money is in the pockets of Casino Club.

realplayer

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Did you take legal action against them in Malta or the UK? They are a publicly quoted company so it's not like they can hide away from you. VC Gaming have a full UK stockmarket listing. You could buy shares and go to the AGM for example.

 

[realplayer]

You could buy shares and go to the AGM for example.

Good idea, but probably the next AGM in May 2011.

CC is registered and licensed in Malta under Gaming VC Corporation Limited and under the laws of Malta.

That is the loophole

This is an excerpt:
Article 1713 Malta Civil Code

(1) The law grants no action for a gaming debt, or for the payment of a bet.
(2) Nor does it grant any action -
(a) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person who
knew that such sum was intended for gaming;
(b) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person
interested in the game, for the payment of money lost
at such game.

 

[Rusty]

That is truly disgusting.
They steel your money and then quote law(or lack thereof) to vindicate it.

You must feel so bad about this and I can only sympathise with you and suggest you keep shouting about this and don't let it drop.
You may not ever see that money but you can at least make the bastards squirm and have a negative effect on their business.
I know that if this was pulled on me I would ensure it cost them.

You might like to try the Department for culture media and sport and ask them to look into this.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Since they are the department that sanction which jurisdictions are whitelisted.
If you can find what provisions need to be made by them when granting a gaming jurisdiction whitelisted status you may have some legal arguments to back a case that those provisions were either not made or inadequate.

At the very least you can kick up a real shit storm for them and the LGA.
I would also consider contacting the media for some leverage if they try to ignore you.
I don't know which mainstream publication/s would be interested in this scandal but I am sure there are some.

I don't know if there is anyone here who is qualified to give you appropriate legal advice on whether the avenues I have suggested are worth pursuing, could you sue the Dcms for example?

 

[Pinababy69]

Another shining example of the LGA/Malta's utter lack of interest, balls, teeth or anything else. Just collect those annual licensing fees and move along. Eff the player.

And let's not forget that it wasn't only Realplayer who got screwed over here. The 167K (right figure?) was a progressive jackpot, and had they LEGITIMATELY ruled that he wasn't eligible, that money should have been returned to the progressive pool. Judging by Realplayer's post....I'm assuming it never was. So yet another instance where a casino snags progressive funds that they have no business in touching. They have ripped off each and every player who ever contributed to that progressive fund.

Thanks for coming back Realplayer, and posting. I am so sorry it wasn't a better result for you. It is exactly stuff like this that makes me personally want nothing to do with this industry. Slimy, sleazy, dirty...and absolutely CRIMINAL.

I would absolutely contact my local media....nothing to lose.

 

[GrandMaster]

Good idea, but probably the next AGM in May 2011.

CC is registered and licensed in Malta under Gaming VC Corporation Limited and under the laws of Malta.

That is the loophole

This is an excerpt:
Article 1713 Malta Civil Code

(1) The law grants no action for a gaming debt, or for the payment of a bet.
(2) Nor does it grant any action -
(a) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person who
knew that such sum was intended for gaming;
(b) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person
interested in the game, for the payment of money lost
at such game.

Not hiding behind this law should be the first condition of the licence.

 

[Rusty]

Another shining example of the LGA/Malta's utter lack of interest, balls, teeth or anything else. Just collect those annual licensing fees and move along. Eff the player.

And let's not forget that it wasn't only Realplayer who got screwed over here. The 167K (right figure?) was a progressive jackpot, and had they LEGITIMATELY ruled that he wasn't eligible, that money should have been returned to the progressive pool. Judging by Realplayer's post....I'm assuming it never was. So yet another instance where a casino snags progressive funds that they have no business in touching. They have ripped off each and every player who ever contributed to that progressive fund.

Thanks for coming back Realplayer, and posting. I am so sorry it wasn't a better result for you. It is exactly stuff like this that makes me personally want nothing to do with this industry. Slimy, sleazy, dirty...and absolutely CRIMINAL.

I would absolutely contact my local media....nothing to lose.

This is the real shame.
Most remote gambling regulatory bodies are just glorified affiliates with the pretence of being official but when it comes to actually cleaning up the industry or ensuring the player gets a fair game they turn their backs on their responsibilities.
It really is a mess and I don't absolve the UK or US governments from blame either. They have contributed to this lack of protection for their citizens in their own ways.

Perhaps we deserve it for enjoying gambling as means of entertainment.

 

[newjam]

Outrageous,this makes a mockery of the LGA as a licensing body, any non-paying casinos have a catch 22 get-out clause. I'm sure if you contacted the media there would be a journalist who would take this up. it's a 'good story' and it would show the LGA up as a sham. Widespread bad publicity is probably the only thing that can hurt them.

 

[jetset]

How Malta retains DCMS white-listed status absolutely defeats me - the LGA appears to be all smoke and mirrors with little real concern over the conduct of licensees vis-a-vis the players.

 

[jetset]

@all

a brief summary

On the 3rd of August, 2008 I was lucky to win a jackpot (Videopoker) in the amount of about 168,000 €. Before I won this time, I already had about 30.000 € on my casino account. After that, the balance of my Casino Club account was at €198,756. 94.

I wanted to apply for a payout, but it did not come so far, because two weeks later my account was blocked. The customer service explained to me that it was a safety check which would last for some time. It turned out that my account was blocked permanently. On request, the customer service only gave the information that they could not help me.

I had the hope that a complaint at the LGA in Malta could help (filed in December 2008), but it did not. Unfortunately, I have never received an official answer by LGA. After more than a year (which means in 2010) I received an answer verbally. In March 2009 the LGA had begun to work on my complaint and requested Gaming VC to comment on the issue. The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one:

„Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “

There were no further references to the alleged accusations and evidence against my person. Instead, there was only the reference to the legal loophole.
There is no doubt the money is in the pockets of Casino Club.

realplayer

Surely CC should now be asked to comment further?

How can a gambling company use a 'not obliged to pay a gambling obligation' to deny a player his winnings. It's plain crazy.

This is just not a satisfactory explanation for a listed gambling company that has denied this player a very substantial win.

 

[GrandMaster]

How Malta retains DCMS white-listed status absolutely defeats me - the LGA appears to be all smoke and mirrors with little real concern over the conduct of licensees vis-a-vis the players.

Malta is not whitelisted, but rather because it is in the EU, any company licensed there is allowed to operate in the UK.