Q&A for Casino Club and "Real Player" concerning the confiscations of winnings

[NASHVEGAS]

It seems the Jackpot has already been won. There is this message at Casino Club lobby:

Gavin cracked the Jackpot of Jackpot Poker and won 234 231€.

The jackpot has been reset to 25875.29€ at 25€ per hand.

It doesn't come as a suprise to me that the jackpot was won so fast. Video poker analyzer says that with this high a payout for royal the game had 118.5830% return percentage with perfect play. However the variance is huge with 25€ per hand. On average a player would expect to lose 69 785€ before hitting the royal. There has probably been a few well-bankrolled advantage players who have immediately tackled this opportunity when the jackpot was reinstated.

How quickly was the Jackpot won after being restored, ftr?

I understand your reasoning but expectation (assuming your numbers are correct as I am not checking them) had been positive before RP originally won the Jackpot. How long (days) it took the previous reset seed (negative expectation) to build to the/a positive expectation total and then to continue accruing to the Jackpot total upon RP's win would be interesting to know also. Then I could decide ,fwiw (nothing really), if I am surprised at however quickly the restored Jackpot (restored amount was ?, needs confirming) plus was won.

 

[realplayer]

How quickly was the Jackpot won after being restored, ftr?

after 2,5 hours

 

[vinylweatherman]

after 2,5 hours

Could be coincidence, but CC didn't believe YOUR play was "coincidence", they assumed that because you played well (perfect strategy) there was NO innocent explanation, you were using a bot to play for you.

They may well be thinking that you will NOT go ahead with court proceedings, so call their bluff, and get your lawyer to book a date & issue a summons. THIS might bring them to the negotiating table, or at the very least make them triple check the evidence now that they think a court will be looking at it.

If you ever get PROOF that corruption and bribery were involved in killing off your initial attempt to go to court, sue for damages as well. You might even be able to sue the LGA if they failed to follow proper procedure in handling your complaint, to the effect that you were wrongly stripped of this progressive win.

We would also like documentation supporting the allegation that CC used the legal loophole of gambling debts being unenforceable in order to justify non-payment. This would have far reaching considerations for ALL players who play at ANY LGA regulated operations.

 

[realplayer]

Could be coincidence, but CC didn't believe YOUR play was "coincidence", they assumed that because you played well (perfect strategy) there was NO innocent explanation, you were using a bot to play for you.

I played the correct blackjack basic strategy, for 6 deck.The bot accusations
concerns BJ not Video Poker.

 

[heador112]

I wouldnt be surprised if the player who won Realplayers JP money is indeed involved in things they accuse Realplayer of .

In this particular case it is important CC publish material . Until now its just a accusation without prooves and this is not enough to confiscate so much money .

 

[NASHVEGAS]

after 2,5 hours

Thanks RP, fwiw or giggles, will attempt to research all or as much as is available regarding the prior history of this "Jackpot" pursuant to past frequencies of time (or averages) between Jackpot hits (in days, not hours, lolol ) , total monetary amounts of prior Jackpots won at least in total monetary credits as who knows what portions are ever paid to the winners, totals or an average of the previous reset seed monetary amounts of the Jackpots, etc.!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I played the correct blackjack basic strategy, for 6 deck.The bot accusations
concerns BJ not Video Poker.

That seems to be the basis for their assumption that you used a bot:-

In particular the logarithm of the executed stakes and the handling of the cards confirm the suspicion that you used software to calculate statistical predictions on the possible events of the game. You also did this – amongst other things – to secure a superior playing strategy and thereby to also gain a (financial) advantage.

In layman's terms, you used "perfect strategy" to maximise the RTP of the game. This is ALL this "confirms", it does not show HOW you played "perfect strategy". You COULD have used a bot to play for you, the ONLY thing not allowed in the terms, but you could have played so much Blackjack that you have learned the correct strategy off by heart, and can play both quickly and correctly. To start with, you may have simply printed off the appropriate strategy card from wizardofodds.com and started out using this & gradually learning the best way to play.

To begin to justify their actions, CC must prove this was a bot, and could not possibly be the result of "learn by rote" over many hands of play from a printed strategy card.

The odd thing is that they ONLY noticed all of this after the big jackpot was won on the Video Poker machine, they were quite happy with your BJ play when you were only winning the odd 10K or so

I would have expected CC to have done verification of your playing patterns long before you got as far as winning the VP jackpot. I can only assume they DID, and found nothing wrong, so paid out on all the BJ sessions. Now they are crying foul when a NETWORK progressive is won, not even their money. It WILL be their money though if you succeed in taking them to court and winning.

CC will probably NOT come here to defend themselves, since their legal team may advise them against this whilst there is a risk of civil action based on this sneaky law NOT applying to "authorised" gambling.

 

[Rusty]

We have had 2 very long threads now regarding this case so here is a timeline of the most relevant events (I have tried to be accurate as possible but some inaccuracies may exist)

August 3rd 2008 Realplayer wins Casino Club progressive VP jackpot. €168,000


Decmeber 7th 2008 Realplayer makes complaint about non payment in German forum.

letter dated August 21st to Realplayer from Casino Club point to multiple accounts (Realplayer also registered as a female)


December 9th 2009 complaint appears in Casinomeister.
Realplayer PAB's at Casinomeister

Realplayer lodges complaint with LGA? (this is till unconfirmed but evidence suggests this was the case)

January 7th 2009 PAB put on hold due to allegations of fraud from Casino Club
Casino Club post statement "A player that was found to be, beyond any reasonable doubt, a fraudulent player, connected to a group of BOT and Bonus Abusers."

Realplayer banned from casinomeister forum for misrepresenting his PAB

March 10th 2009 Casino Club post statement "The player has recently lodged a complaint with the LGA of Malta and when they take a stand on this issue I am sure everything will be clearer to all.


March 11th 2009 Realplayers Casinomeister account reopenned.

March 12th 2009 CM confirms CasinoClub contacted by LGA regarding Realplayer (confirming LGA complaint received)

March 12th 2009 Casino Club removed from Casinomeister accredited section for not supplying evidence as promised to CM.

March 14th 2009 Realplayer makes post in forum explaining why his PAB was NOT misrepresented.

March 16th 2009 Casino Club post in CM forum answering questions and confirming the following;

Seizure of realplayers funds including 25,000 euros deposits until resolution of the case. €198,756. 94 Total.
Accusing Realplayer of fraud by "Collusion with other players/Mutiple Accounts and breach of T&C relating to the use of BOT�s for Bonus Abuse."
Explaining that thye have forwarded evidence to the LGA and that should they find in Realplayers favour (highly unlikely- their words) they would release all funds to the player immediately.

Casino club make further post stating they will look into when the LGA is likely to have the case resolved and will repost with information.

March 17th 2009 Realplayer posts explaining he was a member of CasinoClub since 2003 and importantly that he had a telephone conversation with CC VIP manager Miss Weiss encouraging him to play on as "there were more jackpots to be won."
(Is this how Casino Club treat players they believe to be fraudulent?)

March 19th 2009 Realplayer states he has only ever held 1 account with Casino Club




September 11th 2010 Realplayer posts that he has not heard officially from the LGA but they requested Gaming VC (who are gaming VC?) to make a statement which was, "Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore"

September 15th 2010 Realplayer states that he has new lawyer representing him in the case.

September 23nd 2010 Casino Club states the Jackpot funds would soon be reinstalled and insist they are right in all of their accusations against Realplayer. They state they will be happy to have the LGA rereview the case and will report back on this soon.

Jackpot reinstalled and won within (2-5 hours)

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Jackpot reinstalled and won within (2-5 hours)

Thanks Rusty for the summary timeline. Had to take a tremendous amount of your time, well done.

One quick issue that may need to be clarified although granted not a big deal either way. I perceived RP's post to mean that the reset Jackpot was won in ~ 2 1/2 hours and not 2 to 5 hours but my perception may be incorrect.

No real signifcance of which is correct as someone was very very lucky (variance) regardless but when you figure how many VP hands can be played per hour on average by whomever, if 2 1/2 hours then someone had even more luck per se than if it was 5 hours. OK, I am nitpicking except maybe for us nerds, lol...Nah, I always sucked at math, stats., etc., lolol!

 

[The Dude]

@Rusty - that was an extremely helpful post. Thank you.

 

[Rusty]

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[NASHVEGAS]

The "amazing winning hand" aka Royal Flush shows a 3h and a 6d and drew the Js.

 

[refre]

The "amazing winning hand" aka Royal Flush shows a 3h and a 6d and drew the Js.

That was before the draw.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Freddy

 

[NASHVEGAS]

That was before the draw.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Freddy

Thanks Freddy......... I figured that was the initial dealt hand until I read he only held the Ks and Qs implying he drew the Js. Thus, I obviously was confused. Casino Club's error as he was also initially dealt the Js......Got it!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Gavin should not celebrate just yet, wait until CC decide his PREVIOUS play was also legit, and pay up

 

[Rusty]

Thanks Freddy......... I figured that was the initial dealt hand until I read he only held the Ks and Qs implying he drew the Js. Thus, I obviously was confused. Casino Club's error as he was also initially dealt the Js......Got it!!

My fault Nash, the screenshot isn't very clear.
That is in fact the J of Clubs that he discarded not the J of spades - that would of been very fishy.

 

[felicie]

I thought it was the CASINO that did this. This would suggest that they were NOT confident their evidence stood up to INDEPENDENT scrutiny, and feared the LGA ruling against them in the end, so pulled out this "gambling debts are not enforceable anyway" to use as their "get out of jail free" card.

Bots CANNOT change the outcome of the bets they make, they can ONLY make more bets than a human in a shorter period of time. If the bonuses offered are constructed intelligently, it would NOT be possible to gain more with a bot than with a human player. Bots CANNOT be proven either, they are assumed based on length and consistency of play, but ASSUME that the average player plays in a certain manner. This has been DISPROVEN by some scientific studies into other types of comuter based gaming and addiction. Human players CAN indeed reach a state where they will "play like a bot", especially where gameplay is simple and repetitive, such as would be the case with Blackjack and Video Poker. Such players CAN play non-stop for hours, seeming never to eat or sleep. I have heard that dedicated poker players do just this, having several tables open at once, having all they need at hand by their chair (kettle microwave, etc), even a COMMODE!

Collusion - how? It's a casino, not poker, so how would collusion affect the outcome of the games? Players talking to each other happens, but if THIS is going to be called "collusion", then surely ALL of us have been guilty of this when discussing a casino WE play at with another member who also plays at the same casino.

Multiple accounting seems to be the ONLY thing they have a chance of proving, yet they used to "gambling debts are not enforceable" cop-out instead. How good WAS the evidence of multiple accounting? Was this all based on suspicion, and those mysterious "flags" we keep hearing about.


How can the rest of us be certain that this is NOT an innocent player ripped off by an unfortunate set of coincidences, yet unable to get the casino to "see the wood for the trees".

Surely if the casino were confident they were right, they would NOT have kept this progressive jackpot "on ice" for two years, but would have returned it to the pool.

How can we be certain is right. And then someone will come in and tell us in cases of possible fraud they cannot tell us anything because casinos fear other fraudsters will learn from it. (no offense Maxd Clearly we can Never be certain who is the screwer and who is the screwee. Something's gotta give.

 

[realplayer]

Jackpot fake ?

That was before the draw.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Freddy

In my opinion, the CC video poker Jackpot is a big fake of the CC management.

some facts:

1. The stake is $5 and not €
see image zoom Old / Expired Link
All Casino Club accounts and jackpots are held in Euros and not Dollar.


2. The jackpot amount in CC newsletter screenshot is 46,848.00
see here Old / Expired Link

The original account balance is 5100. 5100+46848= 51948
But the account balance make a jump up to 239,341.15


3.different data about the jackpot win

- screenshot in the CC newsletter, an amount of 46,848.00

- in German CC ticker an amount of 234.241
see here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- on the English website and headline of the CC newsletter, an amount of 235,716
see here Old / Expired Link

Last but not least, on the website jackpotgraphs.com an amount of 234,312
see here Link Removed (invalid URL)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think, The cc management made the reset itself, 2 hours after midnight. There is no real winner. The CC management is quite impertinent.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

In my opinion, the CC video poker Jackpot is a big fake of the CC management.

some facts:

1. The stake is $5 and not €
see image zoom Old / Expired Link
All Casino Club accounts and jackpots are held in Euros and not Dollar.


2. The jackpot amount in CC newsletter screenshot is 46,848.00
see here Old / Expired Link

The original account balance is 5100. 5100+46848= 51948
But the account balance make a jump up to 239,341.15


3.different data about the jackpot win

- screenshot in the CC newsletter, an amount of 46,848.00

- in German CC ticker an amount of 234.241
see here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- on the English website and headline of the CC newsletter, an amount of 235,716
see here Old / Expired Link

Last but not least, on the website jackpotgraphs.com an amount of 234,312
see here Link Removed (invalid URL)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think, The cc management made the reset itself, 2 hours after midnight. There is no real winner. The CC management is quite impertinent.

Advantage players are also claiming they did not receive the promo e-mails until after the Jackpot was won.........The probability of this Jackpot win being kosher is like finding a needle in a haystack, jmo.......hell at least Irish Luck took two weeks or so (after being busted and backed into a corner by this forum) for whomever/whatever to supposedly win the restored Jackpot they had originally no intention of paying or restoring.

 

[Pinababy69]

I think we should start a poll, and the question should be.....who believes that Gavin really exists?

Irish Luck, jackpot won 2 weeks after being reinstated (as Nash stated...only after direct pressure from this site). Course it hadn't been won in months previous to that, except by the guy who wasn't eligible for it (via the jackpot specific promo cooked up by Rival).

And now Casino Club. Two years they held onto this money, and within two hours of the jackpot being returned (again, ONLY after negative publicity)...BAM!! We have a winner.

Sure, I'm a believer. And the world is flat. And Elvis is alive and well and living in Hoboken, working at the neighbourhood Burger King, mopping floors to make a living.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I think we should start a poll, and the question should be.....who believes that Gavin really exists?

Irish Luck, jackpot won 2 weeks after being reinstated (as Nash stated...only after direct pressure from this site). Course it hadn't been won in months previous to that, except by the guy who wasn't eligible for it (via the jackpot specific promo cooked up by Rival).

And now Casino Club. Two years they held onto this money, and within two hours of the jackpot being returned (again, ONLY after negative publicity)...BAM!! We have a winner.

Sure, I'm a believer. And the world is flat. And Elvis is alive and well and living in Hoboken, working at the neighbourhood Burger King, mopping floors to make a living.

According to Dave's site, Link Removed (invalid URL) , this Jackpot has been hit a total of 4 times supposedly in the last 365 days (????) with an average time interval between hits of ~ 148 days.

FWIW also, this Jackpot does not appear to monetarily increase very quickly, at least initially after it is hit and the seeded Jackpot resets which is to expected, I assume. (Currently the Jackpot is increasing on average ~ a couple hundred euros per day).

So Gavin, a 25 year old and 5 year member of "C.C." at max. bet (anybody?, anybody?, Bueller??) hits the Jackpot in 15 minutes after 55 hands of play and as previously stated only 2 hours after the 200,000.00 euros (I guess euros as the dollar/euro switching by "C.C", WTF?) was restored to the Jackpot.

Not impossible but........................????????

 

[vinylweatherman]

In my opinion, the CC video poker Jackpot is a big fake of the CC management.

some facts:

1. The stake is $5 and not €
see image zoom Old / Expired Link
All Casino Club accounts and jackpots are held in Euros and not Dollar.


2. The jackpot amount in CC newsletter screenshot is 46,848.00
see here Old / Expired Link

The original account balance is 5100. 5100+46848= 51948
But the account balance make a jump up to 239,341.15


3.different data about the jackpot win

- screenshot in the CC newsletter, an amount of 46,848.00

- in German CC ticker an amount of 234.241
see here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- on the English website and headline of the CC newsletter, an amount of 235,716
see here Old / Expired Link

Last but not least, on the website jackpotgraphs.com an amount of 234,312
see here Link Removed (invalid URL)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think, The cc management made the reset itself, 2 hours after midnight. There is no real winner. The CC management is quite impertinent.

In which case they STILL have the money in case you beat them in court.

This is the ONLY way this whole affair will be open to proper scrutiny. The LGA have made a laughing stock of themselves over their handling (or rather NON handling) of this issue. CC and the LGA have now completely "clammed up", and will not respond to media enquiries. The jackpot gets won even before players are sent the email telling them the missing funds have been put back, and a promotion offered.

It is NOT an uncommon story though, where a player wins something like this after only a few hands or spins.

I have had RF a few times soon after getting onto a VP machine - it's just one of those lucky coincidences. CC would have had no problem getting players to believe this ordinarily, but the aroma surrounding this whole affair makes ANYTHING even slightly out of step with general expectations look like evidence of a dark conspiracy (which incidentally, is what CC accused realplayer of, starting this whole affair).

 

[jod5413]

I have to say, this absolute garbage is becoming more and more frequent. It is completely unbelievable that we are assumed to be so stupid as to believe any of the casino reps BS.

The real killer is that people keep depositing and playing at so many rogue sites. We talk about them and warn against them, and nothing happens.

Until a new "victim" of the casino joins here and posts. Then we are off again.

Pina, Nash, VWM, Rusty, Bryan and Max and a whole bunch of others here (sorry gals and guys, can't mention all of you) keep telling it like it is, they warn, they try to help, they research, and do everything else other than post naked pics of themselves.

Hardly anyone seems to pay attention or believe that they should not play at this or that casino. All the old members here have great knowledge and try to help.

But, it goes on and on. It is sad and pathetic. sigh




Oh, and Pina? Is Elvis really still alive and well?

 

[Pinababy69]

I
Oh, and Pina? Is Elvis really still alive and well?

Course he is....and on weekends, him and Frank Sinatra get together and sing a few ditties. Hell, maybe they even have an anonymous account at Casino Club, and maybe it's one of them who won the JP using the pseudonym "Gavin". Anything is possible right?

 

[jod5413]

Hell Yeah!!!! Him and Frankie!!!

 

[jetset]

Just for s@*&s and giggles I think a poll on the credibility of Gavin's win would be an interesting exercise. I know that personally I find this sudden development and the circumstances surrounding it suspicious.

I continue to believe that the most effective way to get the LGA to respond with a satisfactory explanation of its conduct and findings in this matter is to engage them officially through a lawyer - preferably one on the ground in Malta.

At present both LGA and CC appear content to sit tight in the hope that this storm will blow over with no serious repercussions.

Others before them have had this same mistaken belief....

 

[The Dude]

Just a quick FYI: I've been in contact with the player who won the jackpot - and it's a player I am familiar with - so the win is real. Amazing as it may sound, it truly has been won.

 

[betpartners]

LOL so the win was real and we are back to player v casino with no real proof from either side and nobody is any the wiser.

There really is a very very simple way to resolve this and that is through the courts, its been done before and if the player has a legitimate case and the casino is in the wrong then the courts will find for him.

I just do not understand with this kind of money on the table why the player will not go down this route.

I cannot recall the figure but the player deposited a sizeable amount which leads one to think he can probably afford a lawyer in Malta.

The LGA has been left wanting in this and so has the casino but only from a PR point of view, simply because we still have no idea how the decision was come about, for all we know they were following protocol.

But all that is beside the point, for £200k or whatever it was why wont the player simply let the courts resolve this?

Can you imagine the damage done to the LGA and the casino if the courts did find in the players favour, this sort of case would be perfect to highlight the incompetent LGA, but needs the player to do go after his winnings.

It is very easy to condemn the LGA and the casino but at the same time one can only draw conclusions based on everyones actions or lack of and that includes the players as well.

 

[jetset]

Just a quick FYI: I've been in contact with the player who won the jackpot - and it's a player I am familiar with - so the win is real. Amazing as it may sound, it truly has been won.

A case of truth being stranger than fiction ... has the LGA responded to your enquiry yet Bryan?

 

[ergopro]

3.different data about the jackpot win

- screenshot in the CC newsletter, an amount of 46,848.00

- in German CC ticker an amount of 234.241
see here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's 46848 times the 5 euro/dollar coin nomination.
46848 x 5 = 234240

 

[The Dude]

A case of truth being stranger than fiction ... has the LGA responded to your enquiry yet Bryan?

He's a lucky player with a couple of seriously big wins in the past couple of years.

As for your question...care to guess?

 

[sticaz]

It's 46848 times the 5 euro/dollar coin nomination.
46848 x 5 = 234240

46848 euro = 65587 us dollars

 

[Pinababy69]

46848 euro = 65587 us dollars

What Ergopro was saying is that the win is showing as 46,848 five Euro coins...as opposed to 46,848 Euros. If you multiply the number of coins by the denomination, the figure is correct and matches with the jackpot amount.

Thx for that Bryan....good to know that at least this win is legit.

Still no excuse for Casino Club, nor the LGA. And I feel horrid for Realplayer.

 

[realplayer]

It's 46848 times the 5 euro/dollar coin nomination.
46848 x 5 = 234240

€ or $ that is the question.

Here is the cover of the German CC magazine from 2002.
The (translatet) headline is :
"Farewell from the US dollar. Since 1 December 2002, CC is a euro-casino."

screenshot see here: Old / Expired Link

Why used Gavin u.s.dollar coins?

 

[betpartners]

Realplayer give it up about the jackpot win by Gavin mate, CM has confirmed it was genuine.

RealPlayer can i ask you, are you taking legal action in Malta, it really is a lot of money at stake

 

[realplayer]

are you taking legal action in Malta

yes I do, but it goes very slowly forward.

I see you are from Gozo. Do you have experiences with lawyers or the court in Malta? My impression, it runs very slowly.

 

[betpartners]

Legal process tends to be slow almost anywhere you are based, i dont find Malta/Gozo any slower than the UK or any other country, but then that is more assumption than anything else based on what i have read etc.

In better words, no idea

 

[jetset]

He's a lucky player with a couple of seriously big wins in the past couple of years.

As for your question...care to guess?

Errrr....I'm guessing no response?

This must be deliberate - I've had not a peep from the LGA despite my original enquiry and two chasers.

Perhaps Realplayer's Malta lawyer will have more success in a head-on challenge.

 

[The Dude]

Errrr....I'm guessing no response?

...

Bingo! You're today's winner!

Today's winner will receive a bag of empty promises and a NEW CAR*

(*the new car prize is not applicable for residents of planet Earth - sorry)

 

[realplayer]

Errrr....I'm guessing no response?

This must be deliberate - I've had not a peep from the LGA despite my original enquiry and two chasers.

Perhaps Realplayer's Malta lawyer will have more success in a head-on challenge.

Here's the link to the LGA website/News (from 6/October/2010): Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

So much for theory, but the authority does not act.

quote:
Maltese Law on Gaming Debts
This Public Notice is being issued in order to clarify a legal issue which has been circulating various blogs and news headlines in relation to Player Winnings and Gaming Debts, thereby creating unnecessary concerns and mere speculation.

Kindly note that the provisions being invoked in relation to Gaming Debts, are extracts from the Civil Code, refer to Chapter 16 of the Laws of Malta (refer to articles 1713-1717A) which are not applicable to Games which are authorised/licensed under the Gaming Act, Chapter 400 of the Laws of Malta (refer to article 34) and to Games authorised/licensed under the Lotteries and Other Games Act, Chapter 438 of the Laws of Malta (refer to articles 48 and 49) and the Regulations issued there under, which include the Remote Gaming Regulations.

The Lotteries and Gaming Authority's interpretation is that the Civil Code articles above captioned are applicable to gaming debts arising out of unauthorised/unlicensed games, which in any case are considered as illegal and tantamount to a criminal offence.

 

[Eagle]

Very interesting!

So that should close the loophole that they wanted to use, right?

 

[jetset]

Here's the link to the LGA website/News (from 6/October/2010): Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

So much for theory, but the authority does not act.

quote:
Maltese Law on Gaming Debts
This Public Notice is being issued in order to clarify a legal issue which has been circulating various blogs and news headlines in relation to Player Winnings and Gaming Debts, thereby creating unnecessary concerns and mere speculation.

Kindly note that the provisions being invoked in relation to Gaming Debts, are extracts from the Civil Code, refer to Chapter 16 of the Laws of Malta (refer to articles 1713-1717A) which are not applicable to Games which are authorised/licensed under the Gaming Act, Chapter 400 of the Laws of Malta (refer to article 34) and to Games authorised/licensed under the Lotteries and Other Games Act, Chapter 438 of the Laws of Malta (refer to articles 48 and 49) and the Regulations issued there under, which include the Remote Gaming Regulations.

The Lotteries and Gaming Authority's interpretation is that the Civil Code articles above captioned are applicable to gaming debts arising out of unauthorised/unlicensed games, which in any case are considered as illegal and tantamount to a criminal offence.

These guys really are a piece of work, aren't they - not even the professional business courtesy of responding to enquiries, instead whacking up a notice on their website, and one that sidesteps the real issues to boot.

It merely confirms what the new Malta lawyer told Realplayer regarding the inapplicability of the gambling debt enforcement loophole...but it does not address the real elements in the enquiries sent to the LGA.

These were on what grounds the LGA based its ruling in favour of Casino Club, whether they considered the evidence provided by the casino, and what that evidence was...and on what basis did they find Realplayer at fault.

Man, these people are irritating

 

[The Dude]

These guys really are a piece of work, aren't they - not even the professional business courtesy of responding to enquiries, instead whacking up a notice on their website, and one that sidesteps the real issues to boot....

These were on what grounds the LGA based its ruling in favour of Casino Club, whether they considered the evidence provided by the casino, and what that evidence was...and on what basis did they find Realplayer at fault.

Man, these people are irritating

I'd like to know who trained their public relations personnel. I am less than inspired with this garbled lawyer-speak, it took me three read-throughs to attempt to figure out what they are trying to say - and I still don't get it.

How about addressing the gaming community with language that speaks to us? This impresses me not and has driven home the opinion that the LGA is totally alienated from player needs.

 

[Simmo!]

This impresses me not and has driven home the opinion that the LGA is totally alienated from player needs.

Maybe the LGA just saw a great opportunity to raise revenue but want to re-invest as little as possible of the money raised on the resources needed to tackle the responsibilities that come with it? Wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

 

[jetset]

I'd like to know who trained their public relations personnel. I am less than inspired with this garbled lawyer-speak, it took me three read-throughs to attempt to figure out what they are trying to say - and I still don't get it.

How about addressing the gaming community with language that speaks to us? This impresses me not and has driven home the opinion that the LGA is totally alienated from player needs.

What public relations personnel ?

Such reluctance to communicate can only increase suspicion.

 

[jetset]

For fairness - have just received a rather belated response to one of my chasers.

However, there is little that is new in the response from the Acting Director of Legal Affairs for the LGA, which merely points to the website comment already posted here, and does not address the questions surrounding the finding against Realplayer.

My reply points this out to the legal director and urges a more communicative apporoach if the regulator really wants to put this issue to bed.

 

[CasinoClub]

Statement from CasinoClub

We were recently informed of an allegation by a poster that Gaming VC lawyers had attempted to rely on a legal loophole to avoid payment of a jackpot. Specifically, the words were:

“The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one: „Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “ ”

Nobody from our organisation made any such statement, and we agree with the LGA’s recently published view on this issue.

Our attention was also drawn to a recent article published on the website www.Online-Casinos.com, where the article (the reporters details are unknown) stated that:

“a Casino Club spokesperson said they were justified in taking the action and that the LGA had been supplied with all the details, finding in favour of the casino with regards to this issue”.

Nobody from our organisation made any such statement. We understand that the LGA is still looking into the relevant complaint.

 

[LHofsdal]

We were recently informed of an allegation by a poster that Gaming VC lawyers had attempted to rely on a legal loophole to avoid payment of a jackpot. Specifically, the words were:

“The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one: „Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “ ”

Nobody from our organisation made any such statement, and we agree with the LGA’s recently published view on this issue.

Our attention was also drawn to a recent article published on the website www.Online-Casinos.com, where the article (the reporters details are unknown) stated that:

“a Casino Club spokesperson said they were justified in taking the action and that the LGA had been supplied with all the details, finding in favour of the casino with regards to this issue”.

Nobody from our organisation made any such statement. We understand that the LGA is still looking into the relevant complaint.

That post was made on 9/11 and a month later your coming here to say no one in "your organization" made that statement?

I have been reading up on this situation, you claim that RealPlayer is in a group that are bonus abusers, bot users and whatever else. But the fact of the matter is that you still TOOK his money while you "WATCHING" him. What if he lost? Would you just let it go? Wait for his next deposit and see what happened? Please, tell me what you would have done if he lost?

I see this situation is on alot of other forums, and to be quite blunt here, CasinoClub does not look good in any of the other forums either. But hey lets try to improve the image of the casino by letting someone else hit the jackpot only hours after it was reset. But lets not tell the "ADVANTAGE" players that the jackpot was reset. What the hell is up with that?

Look, CasinoClub, you can come in here and post what you want, skirt around the issues that are put infront of you claiming "We can not comment because of the investigation". In my eyes, (and I am pretty sure I am not the only one) you made a big mistake with RealPlayer. Even if your claims are true that he is in this so called "group" of bonus abusers and bot users, you took his money. No questions asked. Even gave the player a bonus on the deposit. He was lucky enough to win and the casino pulls this crap. What kind of "organization" are you trying to run? What you did to this player is WORSE in my eyes than what he is being accused of doing. What makes you think you did the right thing in taking his deposit, with a bonus even and then come on here and tell the CM community he is a "bonus abuser and uses bots".

At the point he made his large deposit, did you tell this player, sorry we can not accept your deposit because we (the casino) feel you are part of group that are considered "bonus abusers and bot users." NO YOU DID NOT!! So tell me does that make you (the casino) engaging in any type of "FRAUDULANT" behavior? I believe it does.

You can come on here and try pumping sunshine up your own butts, to look brighter than the sun, but trust me your only making this casino look more of joke than the LGA.

LH

 

[jetset]

"That post was made on 9/11 and a month later your coming here to say no one in "your organization" made that statement?"

Busted!

Well done LHofsdal.

That post (apparently made by someone from the casino) was made right here at CM, too.

This is the sort of statement that does little to assuage the suspicions that are mounting on this issue imo..

Does anyone else think there may be a belated damage control action kicking in here?

And we still have no clear statement on exactly what the LGA had to say about the charges made against Realplayer by CC. Why is it so difficult to get clarification on this?

 

[LHofsdal]

Damage Control

Yes, Jet, I agree, they are doing some damage control. Hell, they will be needing to alot more and I mean alot more of it. It "gets my panties in a bunch" so to speak when this casino calls some a fraud, and they go and commit fraud themselves.

In my eyes, taking this players money and jerking him around like this is fraud to me. Because if it were some Joe Blow from down the street doing this to me he would meet me and and my blackbelt in karate when I went to get my money.

LH