Playing at one of the rogues...

[4 of a kind]

I recently became a member here. Been playing online poker and casinos for a good ten years. After the UIGEA most of all the good online casinos disappeared for U.S. players. I became a platinum vip player at one of the casinos I was playing at and still excepted U.S. players. While looking for another one or two good casinos that excepted U.S., of course I eventually came across this forum.

While checking the rouge list I found the casino I play at (wont mention the name here) was on the list. I was rather surprised and felt nervous at first. Any cash outs were always a long time, and actually thought it was the norm. Since I became a platinum vip their about 2/3 years ago, I automatically receive a 250% bonus on my deposits of $200.00 dollars or more, with no play through and no max cash out, with any game they offer. If I loose I then get a 100% deposit match insurance, with 10xs play and 10xs max cash out.

Here is a list of recent pay-outs with time to receive money.

Date cashed out: Amount: Date Approved: Date Received
11/02/09 2500.00 11/19/09 12/05/09 - 33d
12/07/09 1200.00 12/22/09 01/06/00 - 30d
01/11/00 700.00 01/29/00 02/06/00 - 20d
02/16/00 1100.00 02/25/00 03/13/00 - 25d
02/21/00 1000.00 03/16/00 04/06/00 - 44d
03/15/00 2570.00 03/28/00 04/22/00 - 38d
03/29/00 1900.00 04/13/00 still waiting...

I agree the time to receive the money is long but it always came. I have tried 3 of the accredited casinos here taking sign-up bonuses, never once completing the play through requirements. I even tried depositing and not excepting any bonus, still no luck.

Of course I also understand where I receive the vip treatment, if I were having my way with them, I certainly wouldnt be receiving that type of bonuses. As good as the cash-outs look, I lost more then I cashed out. But endless entertainment.

I certainly don't recommend to anyone reading this to even consider playing at a listed rouge casino. If I read this forum before I started to play their of course I would of never made a deposit.

But as long as I'm getting paid, and the money eventually gets here, I'm still okay with it. Just can't seem to get any type of action any where else, regardless of the size of my deposits.

When things get cold, I like to try other casinos. Guess I'll keep trying.

Not sure why the list didn't stay in proper order. Looked good when I typed it.

 

[LaurieJim]

A rogue is a rogue is a rogue............ casino!!!!!!!!!! Its your business, but id count my lucky stars and money and get the hell away from there,they dont call them rogues for nothing................laurie

 

[Pinababy69]

It's people like you that keep these assholes in business. And what's worse is that some poor newbie will come here and read this thread, and say "hey, see it's okay to play there....this person always gets paid".

When you get screwed over, and you will....you deserve it.

BTW, it's roGUe, not rouge....and you don't lOOse your money, you lose it.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

Hey, 99.9% I agree with what you all say but jeez...give this guy a break! Do your best to impart the wisdom but can you not scare him to death? I'd run and never look back....he obviously is looking for some input here not ridicule. If he learns the hard way so be it...he knows the rogue list and any newcomer has to weigh all the options out there. Start screaming if you want I have thick skin but all I'm saying is maybe he is looking for a little guidance. IMHO....this is my opinion only doesn't amount to a hill of beans but there it is......have a good day


P.S. Not everyone runs spellcheck all the time

 

[4 of a kind]

Sorry to offend you so much Pinababy69, just from sharing my experience with the forum. When I started to play there several years ago I didnt even know casinomeister existed until about 6 months ago.

Also, very sorry to have misspelled ROGUE, and for using the word loose instead of lose. Could be from all the poker I play. I was very happy to see you were still able to figure out what I was trying to say.

If you IM me on all the topics you dislike, I will certainly avoid writing about them in the future.

Hope you can accept this post as my apology.

 

[winbig]

03/29/00 1900.00 04/13/00 still waiting...

9 years for a withdrawal?

How about the flipside....you've listed your withdrawal amounts, but now how about listing how much you've deposited over the lifetime of your account? Maybe that's why they want to keep paying you in order to extract even more money from you over the long run.

 

[chayton]

IMO waiting for 48 hours for a payout is plenty long enough - waiting for over a month to get paid would move a casino to the top of my own personal rogue list and I doubt I'd play there again. But that's just me...!

 

[chayton]

it's funny though - the OP has a point, I played a free chip at a rogue casino and won and won and won....I actually made playthrough several times over but since I hadn't ever deposited and didn't want to send them my info I treated it as play money and eventually lost the lot. But it did seem like their slots were a little looser than at the accredited RTGs - maybe it was coincidence or maybe it's the old "bait and switch" routine.

 

[4 of a kind]

9 years for a withdrawal?

How about the flipside....you've listed your withdrawal amounts, but now how about listing how much you've deposited over the lifetime of your account? Maybe that's why they want to keep paying you in order to extract even more money from you over the long run.

LOL I see I entered 00 instead of 09 several times on the list. Damn, nothing gets by here.

Of course I'm a loser overall. The dollar amount is not important. It's what I'm comfortable with losing. I love the action, and occasionally withdraw large amounts.

Every casino I play at, including live, is way ahead of me. Only from playing poker I'm way ahead, and that's from coming second in a million dollar tourney.

 

[Rebel2k5]

It's people like you that keep these assholes in business. And what's worse is that some poor newbie will come here and read this thread, and say "hey, see it's okay to play there....this person always gets paid".

When you get screwed over, and you will....you deserve it.

BTW, it's roGUe, not rouge....and you don't lOOse your money, you lose it.

I use to think this was one of the last forums where all the users were laid back and nice.

You proved my thinking to be wrong. Thanks

 

[vegetagirl2008]

I use to think this was one of the last forums where all the users were laid back and nice.

You proved my thinking to be wrong. Thanks

You have to understand we cannot be "laid back" when it come to rogue casinos. We look out for each other on this forum and for someone to say that a rouge casino has been paying, well good for them, others haven't been so lucky. If you look around this forum and see for yourself then you will change your perception of the members here.

 

[vinylweatherman]

LOL I see I entered 00 instead of 09 several times on the list. Damn, nothing gets by here.

Of course I'm a loser overall. The dollar amount is not important. It's what I'm comfortable with losing. I love the action, and occasionally withdraw large amounts.

Every casino I play at, including live, is way ahead of me. Only from playing poker I'm way ahead, and that's from coming second in a million dollar tourney.

The bonus and insurance structure looks like a Virtual Group RTG casino. If you are a loser overall, they WILL pay you (slowly). Another member here fell into this trap, playing there and getting paid. Once they managed to get ahead though, the attitude changed, they didn't seem so keen to pay, but by this time forum members were warning her this would happen, and when it did, she saw the light.

Rogue casinos obviously have to pay SOME players, otherwise they would not have any. It is WINNERS they don't like paying, and will often stall payment, or try other tricks, in the hope they will lose it back and never realise that they were getting screwed over.

 

[4 of a kind]

Rogue casinos obviously have to pay SOME players, otherwise they would not have any. It is WINNERS they don't like paying, and will often stall payment, or try other tricks, in the hope they will lose it back and never realise that they were getting screwed over.

I totally agree with this statement. I've been playing there for years before becoming a member here. I've had many large cash-outs over the years, but can assure you, I am a much larger depositor. With no doubt I fall into the players bracket.

After reading several posts here, I'm confident if one day I really spike them, I'll be hung out to dry.

Trying hard to find a new casino home, one of the reasons I'm at this forum. But not getting a bang for my buck anywhere I try to this point, but certainly not going to stop trying.

The information here along with the refreshing posts about straight up sites, makes this the obvious place to be while shopping for a new one: and a good place to share experiences...

 

[jas2587]

Sorry to offend you so much Pinababy69, just from sharing my experience with the forum. When I started to play there several years ago I didnt even know casinomeister existed until about 6 months ago.

Also, very sorry to have misspelled ROGUE, and for using the word loose instead of lose. Could be from all the poker I play. I was very happy to see you were still able to figure out what I was trying to say.

If you IM me on all the topics you dislike, I will certainly avoid writing about them in the future.

Hope you can accept this post as my apology.

she only spanked ya wait till she cracks that whip of hers on ya then look out

Cindy

 

[winbig]

The bonus and insurance structure looks like a Virtual Group RTG casino. If you are a loser overall, they WILL pay you (slowly). Another member here fell into this trap, playing there and getting paid. Once they managed to get ahead though, the attitude changed, they didn't seem so keen to pay, but by this time forum members were warning her this would happen, and when it did, she saw the light.

omg, I remember this, but I can't remember who it was!!!!! It was like every post was PRAISING this rogue group, and then one day when she won a little too much, they spanked her and sent her on her way with her money.

Then every post after that, this same group she was praising was then the epitome of all evil, and all of their games were RIGGED...after she started losing of course....lmao

now I remember who it was!!!

debbiek.

Everyone kept telling her that she was going to get burned, but she just ignored us and kept playing at that group. What happened? She got burned. It's not good that she got burned, but it just made matters worse that she was bitching about it, and had no right to, when everyone was telling her it would happen, sooner or later.

hmm, she's banned now. "Charge backs at Rushmore."

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[Pinababy69]

Gee, so sorry I'm not Mary Poppins......and that some were offended by what I had to say.

You don't like it, put me on ignore. FTR, Bryan himself has said a whole lot worse to posters who come on here bragging about how they play at a rogue, and gosh golly gee whiz.....they've always been paid.

Do you not realize that it's people like you who keep these shitholes in business? AND allow them to rip off the unsuspecting player? There is NO excuse for people like the OP, none. They are fully aware that they are playing at a rogue clip joint....they can't claim they didn't. Why even come to this site, if you're not going to listen to advice given to you.

Some may view this site as "laid back".....maybe that's the problem. Too many hugs and kisses and pats on the back, and less attention by posters on some pretty serious issues.....ie. rogue casinos just for one. How about a few less threads on "I lost again playing slots" or "Gosh golly, Louise is wonderful"....and more discussion on things like Malta and different gaming jurisdictions, the Tusk/Microgaming issue that has millions of player dollars tied up, the Casino Club mess and Malta's inactivity on that one....the list goes on. But I know.....very few want to be bothered actually reading the "boring" stuff and getting involved in issues that matter. They'd rather look at pretty winning screenshots, spin slots and whine when they lose.

I'm not here to make friends, and if I offend you....ignore me. Simple as that. And if you KNOWINGLY play at rogue casinos, especially places like Virtual....you not only deserve to get burned.....I hope you do. Maybe that will "cure" you of your fascination with these places, and how wonderful you think they are.

Bryan must just shake his head and wonder why he bothers making a rogue list when he reads posts like this.

EDIT: For those people who think I'm so awful for pointing out the obvious.....here was one of Bryan's responses to a two year member of this forum who got burned by Cool Cat, yet another Virtual shithole.

Um...you're a member here for over two years and you haven't visited the Rogue section?

Cool Cat Casino has been listed there for years.

What's wrong with you?

What is wrong with these people for sure? The poster in that thread wasn't even aware of a Rogue List, so whether that's an excuse or not...I don't know. But to make a thread like this, when you are FULLY AWARE that you are playing at one of the worst places there is.....is so wrong. It gives the wrong impression to newbies who may come here and read, that they do indeed pay, at least some people.

The first person who posted after the OP, Lauriejim...also used to play at rogues ie. Virtual. And she used to defend posters who came on here posting threads like this...saying we should "take it easy" on them. You might wanna give this thread a read. This pretty much cured Laurie of her fascination with Virtual. And yes, she was one of those who always got paid, just like the OP.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...secrets-behind-palace-of-chance-casino.26678/

There was another poster who came on here shilling for Virtual a couple years back, I think it was Club Player....and in that case, Bryan asked him if he was brain dead, or brain damaged. I think what I said was mild in comparison. There are no holds barred when it comes to the rogues...especially Virtual. You are playing with fire and you're going to get burned. When you do, don't come whining...don't want to hear it.

 

[RobWin]

I use to think this was one of the last forums where all the users were laid back and nice.

You proved my thinking to be wrong. Thanks

Hey now...I'm wayyyy laid back and nice too most of the time, actually wayyyy too nice for my own good you could say..

 

[same_old]

It's not just that 4 of a kind, these guy's take a mafia approach to there customers. if you read over casinomeister ealrier posts you would see some horiffic things that these guys did..

One client went to Costa rica and went to one of the establsihments and was escorted out of the building by security guards etc.

One of the managers for these rogue outfits also has a bloody gun when he is on shift at work and shoots the computer monitors when he is angry..

as you say they have to pay SOME people and you seem to be that SOME person, I bet you have given so much more than you have taken..

Basically at the end of the day give your money to the peoplpe that want your business and give you peice of mind and A1 class service. go play at somewhere like 32Red or 2Dice.. they make sure the player experince is top notch so you should be giving your play time there...

Seriousle those massive bonuses and insurance etc etc you get is not that big of a deal at the end of the day.

Regards

Same_old

 

[4 of a kind]

Gee, so sorry I'm not Mary Poppins......and that some were offended by what I had to say.

You don't like it, put me on ignore. FTR, Bryan himself has said a whole lot worse to posters who come on here bragging about how they play at a rogue, and gosh golly gee whiz.....they've always been paid.

Do you not realize that it's people like you who keep these shitholes in business? AND allow them to rip off the unsuspecting player? There is NO excuse for people like the OP, none. They are fully aware that they are playing at a rogue clip joint....they can't claim they didn't. Why even come to this site, if you're not going to listen to advice given to you.

It's obvious you have a problem understanding what you read. I certainly didn't post anything, bragging about a rogue. My posts are pure fact, and explain how I ended up at one.

But I would like to take some of your advice. Can you please explain to me where and how to activate that ignore button you mentioned.

With the amount of posts you made, I'm not certain I could take much more of you.

 

[same_old]

4 of a kind, sorry matey if you have been offended here, some of us are old ducks at this site and have seen SOOO many posts about these rogue outfits most of them being complaints, when you have been here for a few years you see the type of tactics they pull on people and you become so shocked at how they can stay in operation.

They are truly the worst of the worst in the online gambling world, no different to 419 scammers etc...

You have come to the forum in the last few day's and posted about one of these rogues and honestly kudos to you if you are happy there and dont see a problem with the times when you get your money but you get beautiful peoplpe like pina who is a very good natured person from what I know of her, she likes to look out for the little guy/gal such as yourself.
I hope you can see what she was saying from a different popint of view or take it with a grain of salt because at the end of the day she was just trying to look out for you.

Us old ducks just cringe when we see a thread about rogue casino's is all, this is one of the mains reasons for this site- to out bastards such as the prism outfit and the likes of them, we will scream to the hills to make anyone and everyone who wants to know that they are bad bad bad.

Regards

Pete

 

[chayton]

Only from playing poker I'm way ahead, and that's from coming second in a million dollar tourney.

Wow, that's incredible...how much did second pay?

 

[4 of a kind]

Just finished reading the whole thread about the Lauriejim and Mystic issue with a Virtual casino back in 08. Very interesting and sad.

Once again I would like to remind the cm family here, that I am a new member.

When I started playing online poker in 1998, I eventually started to play at online casinos probably around 2000. Before 1998 and to the present I still am a frequent visitor to land based casinos. With the endless hours and money I invested into online poker and live action, along with the endless grind of waiting for long-term, good play to be rewarded, it was becoming boring just trying to keep my bankroll above water and in the green. Yes, I did come in second in a million dollar tournament online and won $117,000.00 dollars. (11/26/06) at party poker. Ive concluded whats best for me after 11 years of playing online poker, that cash games online unless being played for crazy dollars, the long-term expected outcome requires way to much time to be effective. Making an occasional visit and having a great time with a couple hundred bucks is one thing. But to really try and squeeze out a profit from cash games is a huge task. If I were working for someone and getting paid for the amount of hours invested in online poker, I would be way ahead. This of course relates to the cash table grind. After spiking the big bucks in a tournament, I now only concentrate on playing big purse tournaments, and satellites trying to get into them for cheap. In two and a half years after my win, I have given back to online poker about 22k, which also includes several smaller wins between 2k and 6k. Trying to win another big online tournament is also a huge task. I will give it another two and a half years, willing to lose the same amount I already lost before I pull the plug on this strategy. This strategy requires a big bankroll to try, and thanks to my lucky win I can give this a shot. Hopefully spiking a big pay seat in a big tournament once in every five years, should keep anyone way ahead.

Being a new member, I just wanted to give some of my background here and do understand there is a separate place for poker chat. So now Ill get back to the online casino stuff.

During and between the years of 2000 to 2007, I became a vip player at 3 well known casinos. Never once experiencing problems with cash-outs from any of the three casinos I played at, other then some taking longer then others. But always received my money and never had a reason to pursue new sites. Was happy with the three sites and had no problems. After the new U.S. law in 2007, two of the three casinos I was playing at withdrew from the U.S., including my favorite poker site Party Poker. Of course leaving me with one VIP site, which turns out to ROGUE.

Had I not been searching for new U.S. accepting sites recently, I still would have never known that where I was playing was ROGUE.

Although I read the ROGUE list here and saw the casino I play at listed, I wasnt sure what to make of it. I obviously missed all the bad news posted about this site, and certainly wasnt reading anything about it as it is old news here to the veterans.

This thread I started was just sharing my present experiences with the site, and after reading whats really up with them of course I will pull the plug their. Its obvious I get paid from them, because the long-run is good for them. But if I catch the big one, how could I expect to get paid after reading all this crap.

Becoming a member here has no doubt saved me allot of heartache in the future, when I probably would have been thinking I finally got them.

Thanks for your input.

P.S. Pinababy69 you need to chill a little

 

[spearmaster]

Ok everyone... chill.

No more warnings - just vacations.

Thanks.

 

[The Dude]

Hi 4 of a Kind - and welcome to the forum.

As you have found out, some of us get riled when we see good money being thrown to the bottom feeders, but you're a new member here, and admittedly didn't know what was up in rogue-land.

At least you didn't name the casino, that was a good move on your part since you'd be hammered by the members for being a shill. Now that would be an experience you'd want to forget.

Since you're new, please check out the "Spot the Rogue" section, and please peruse the "Accredited Casino " section which lists casinos that are US friendly. And pleeeease subscribe to our newsletter so you can keep up to date on what's happening in Casinomeisterland.

And in defense of Pinababy - sure, she gets riled up at times, she's one heck of a fire-cracker, but her postings are the outspoken ying to our mellow yang. You'd be missing out on a lot of good content by ignoring her - she's really in touch with what is going on in the players' realm and has a lot to offer here.

 

[skiny]

I played at a few rogue casinos before I knew what a rogue casino was. I hit a $4000 jackpot at one once and was paid in two installments. Of course I didnt receive the first payment until I hounded them on a daily basis every way I knew how for about 6 weeks. The second didn't come till quite a while after that. I think I quoted their payment policy to them so many times I learned it by heart. They were politely being jerks about the whole thing but I can be a bit of a jerk sometimes too. And when someone owes me money I can be endlessly stubborn as well. Getting my money from them had become sort of a hobby.

Do yourself a favor and just use the casinos in the accredited list. At least if theres a problem you wont be sitting alone in the dark. At the very least you wont be the only one looking for an answer. If you have a problem with a rogue casino all youre going to get is I told you so. (If you're lucky.)

 

[Jasminebed]

I played at a couple of rogue casinos with no idea they were rogues. Never won (just like many legit casinos) so never had any big hassles. Just a spam legacy.

Now, I'm not saying everywhere you play needs to be on CM's accredited list, but there are always good reasons casinos land in the rogue pit.

You don't have to make every mistake for yourself, you can learn from other peoples.

You've been very upfront about your deposits being larger than your withdrawals. Mine are too. But a rogue casino will bite you in the behind if you get lucky enough, or get smarter about the cashout button.

Chances are the platforms you like to play at are at a CM accredited casino as well.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum. We can all learn from each other.

 

[LaurieJim]

This is really my first real post in awhile as im in the midst of moving and without a computer and using the public library.

To the original poster, i cant stress how much Pina makes sense and she is right, i used to be one of those peeps and wished i would have followed so many other wise peoples advice on here , including Pina's, its your money granted but there are hundreds of newbies that read about someone winning at a rogue casino and they get hook , lined and suckered into spending money, by any means possable including over the top bonuses ect.

I ask that you sit back and reflect on what you want out of gaming online? If its entertainment with getting paid if you should win, then you need to play at casinos listed under C.M Casinos.

If one person is spared from losing their ass at a rogue casino, cause Pina ruffled someones feathers, so be it. I wish she would have been harder on me in the distant past...................laurie

 

[Markus]

I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

I think the Casinomeister Rouge List is a good orientation but it is not perfect. There are IMHO dangerous casinos missing and there are casinos on this list I wouldn't call roguish.

Same thing with the Accredited Casino List, most of these casinos are really good but with a few of them I already had some smaller problems.

 

[Pinababy69]

I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

*heavy sigh*

Please shoot me now....I give up. :sob:

So as long as they pay you......who cares if they screw over 100 other people right?

 

[Markus]

*heavy sigh*

Please shoot me now....I give up. :sob:

So as long as they pay you......who cares if they screw over 100 other people right?

Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

I'm not even support these casinos by giving them my money it's the other way round because of my advantage play.

 

[Pinababy69]

Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

Okay, let's try this as an analogy then.

Every month, at the end of the month....there's a mugger who waits outside the bank and robs little old ladies of their pension cheques. You know who this guy is, and could report him to the authorities....but he's promised he won't rob you personally if you just "look the other way". So as long as your money (and you) are safe, you would just look the other way, and let this guy continue to take advantage of these other people?

Ya know...I'm gonna leave this, cause I just get so pissed off, I really do. But it's a true commentary on today's society and humankind in general. Always looking out for number one, and as long as something doesn't affect you personally, why let it bother you, or take any action against it? People don't care if other people get ripped off on a regular basis, as long as they get taken care of. I find it all really sad.

Your comment that the only one at risk is you really sums it all up. You and the thousands of others who continue to play at these places are the ones who ALLOW them to stay in business. Imagine if every player just refused to play at any casino who doesn't treat EVERY player fairly. What would happen? They would either go out of business, or they would be forced to re-assess their business model and make some serious changes. If players would only realize that they are not powerless in these matters, but it takes solidarity. I am finally realizing that people (in general) just don't give a shit about other people.

People think that I should chill out....well, my response is that I think others should get more fired up about this stuff. Complacency should be a sin.

 

[skiny]

Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

 

[bb28]

Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

This point has been proven many times....they don't really give a rat's ass!

 

[vegetagirl2008]

Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

I'm not even support these casinos by giving them my money it's the other way round because of my advantage play.

Okay that's all fine and dandy, but what about the next player do you think everyone has such a strategy as yours? No they don't. So this is why this site warns people of such casinos.

Just a quick scenario
Okay put yourself in this scenario say you really won a fantastic hand. You make a withdrawal, then oops they need certain documents from you that you have already provided them. Okay that's done another week goes by. Now they come back, oops they cannot read you documents can you fax them over again. Another week goes by. Then they send a e-mail telling you they received your documents and they are currently awaiting word from the accounting department.

Okay three days go by nothing. You get frustrated and you send an e-mail to them. They don't respond right away then 2 days later they tell you they still waiting to hear from the accounting dept. Now its going on 2 weeks and some days.

Now they come back via e-mail from them stating the matter is now being investigated. Wow you thought they was waiting news from the accounting dept. Now it got escalated to the investigations dept. Why? Because of your play history. Another 2 weeks goes by. Now they closed your account because they felt you did not meet their play requirements. During this time you went through chat, e-mails and phone conversations because this casino refused to pay you.

Now do you see why we have the rogue list. Bryan and the staff went to great lengths to make sure that players can now have the upper hand.

 

[WonderingSpirit]

Every month, at the end of the month....there's a mugger who waits outside the bank and robs little old ladies

So you call the members of casinomeister for little old ladies now



On a serious side: good point!

 

[Tengil]

I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

I think the Casinomeister Rouge List is a good orientation but it is not perfect. There are IMHO dangerous casinos missing and there are casinos on this list I wouldn't call roguish.

Same thing with the Accredited Casino List, most of these casinos are really good but with a few of them I already had some smaller problems.

I actually have to agree. Not all the casinos in the rogue section are there because of nonpayment. And there are many shady places missing.

While Im not an advantage player myself I understand that you have to go to the "dark" side, otherwise you just give up too much EV.

I would target unethical affiliates before advantage players. They are happy to send uninformed players to the slaughter as long as they get their $. Advantage players knows the risks in opposite to new players. I just dont buy it that you keep a casino alive by taking their money.

Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

They are just the software provider. No other software does it either, why should they?

 

[skiny]

They are just the software provider. No other software does it either, why should they?

Because if one or two RTG casinos don't pay those casinos get a bad name. If many casinos don't pay RTG gets a bad name.

I've pretty much given up on RTG slots anyway. Pumping money into RTG slots is starting to seem like beating a dead horse.

 

[winbig]

Because if one or two RTG casinos don't pay those casinos get a bad name. If many casinos don't pay RTG gets a bad name.

I've pretty much given up on RTG slots anyway. Pumping money into RTG slots is starting to seem like beating a dead horse.

RTG's name can't get any worse than it already is. #1 they don't look out for the players at all #2 they allow rogues to continue to operate without yanking their license #3 they allow rogue operators to consistently spam everybody and yet do nothing about trying to stop it...#4, #5, #6, do I really need to continue?

 

[Pinababy69]

So you call the members of casinomeister for little old ladies now

Hey, whatever works.

I actually have to agree. Not all the casinos in the rogue section are there because of nonpayment. And there are many shady places missing.

While Im not an advantage player myself I understand that you have to go to the "dark" side, otherwise you just give up too much EV.

I would target unethical affiliates before advantage players. They are happy to send uninformed players to the slaughter as long as they get their $. Advantage players knows the risks in opposite to new players. I just dont buy it that you keep a casino alive by taking their money.

I've said it before.....while I certainly don't take Bryan's accredited list as gospel, it's an extremely good starting point, especially for newbies. There are a couple of places on there, while I may not classify them as rogue, I myself would have them on a not recommended list. But that's personal preference. And at least with his casinos, while you may not have a guarantee....he will stand behind what he offers, and go to bat for you...IF you have followed all the T&C's, etc. He still does a better job than most out there when it comes to being a "responsible" webmaster. I've said before to other people that I probably agree with around 90% of what he says/does in relation to this site. I can't say that about alot of other affy sites/gambling sites, and I am extremely picky. Bryan knows I respect him...he also knows we don't agree on everything, and I've really tried to learn to not take things so personally in the last year or two.

Regarding your comment about going after the affies.....oh trust me, I do. I'm not going to search up my own posts, but they are there. And I agree with you, they are the ones I blame for sending the "unsuspecting" player to play at some of the real shitholes ie. Virtual. Their websites permeate the internet like a goddamn virus, that's out of control. I have come close to getting myself suspended/banned here and other places with some of the scathing remarks I've made to affiliates who defend their "right" to promote whomever they like. Bryan tends to give me a bit more leeway here (I think), because he knows me well enough to understand my intentions are in the right place.

These rogue affiliates who promote the worst places out there, IMO, deserve every scathing comment that I, and others, can throw at them. But much like the drug dealer who peddles his wares on the streetcorner, and the user who buys them....both have to take some responsibility for their own actions. The dealer needs to be shut down, and the user needs to stop, period.

I see no reason to give the players who know better a free pass. They are to blame for keeping these places in business as well. I don't mean the newbie who comes here and posts that he got ripped off by Coolcat, POC, etc. Those people I feel somewhat sorry for. Yes, they should have done some research prior to playing...but okay, everyone makes mistakes. I am referring to the players who give these places their business, knowing full well that the money they are being paid with, has probably come out of the pocket of some, poor unsuspecting newbie whom they first strung along for a month or two...and then decided not to pay them. Yes, I have just as much problem with those players as I do with the affiliates who sent the others there in the first place. Fair is fair. No excuse for going to the dark side Spider. You know for the most part, I think that you and I are on the same page in many industry related matters. But on this subject, we'll have to disagree. It happens.

Players do have power to change things...they really do. The Jackpot Factory media campaign from a few years ago, the English Harbour cheating scandal, the MG white label mess......just a few examples of what players can accomplish if they apply enough pressure in large enough numbers. I'm not sure that any of us had any true effect on the white label thing....but we sure made them sit up and take notice of us, and hopefully at least rethink their business model. But I'll say it again....complacency won't get the job done. People need to get fired up about things, and work together. That goes for the player AND the affiliate.

Can I go have my coffee now?

 

[Tengil]

RTG's name can't get any worse than it already is. #1 they don't look out for the players at all #2 they allow rogues to continue to operate without yanking their license #3 they allow rogue operators to consistently spam everybody and yet do nothing about trying to stop it...#4, #5, #6, do I really need to continue?

Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.

 

[Pinababy69]

Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.

I personally think that ALL software suppliers should stand behind their licensees. And if they're not willing to do that, then they should be alot more discerning in who they allow to market their product. I have to wonder how many of the new casinos that spring up all the time, actually have "sufficient" funding, and how many open with a shoestring budget.

 

[Pinababy69]

I have to post this.....a friend of mine read this thread this morning, and while he prefers to not get involved in it, he wanted me to know that he understood where I was coming from. Especially in reference to the analogy I posted yesterday, and the complacency issue. He sent me a quote, which I had heard before, but not thought of in years. Yes, it relates to an extreme issue, but just proves my point of how dangerous complacency can be. It is appropriate, and for those of you who wonder why I get so worked up about this stuff....this sums it up.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Pastor Martin Niemller

Okay, so we're talking about online gaming, not the Nazis and the Holocaust. But the premise is the same....and it just goes to show that we all need to look out for each other, no matter what the issue.

 

[skiny]

Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.

Well, there is the Central Dispute System. Which is an entire website that apparently consists of a title page and a blank form. Where you give all your personal information and then type the details of your claim into a box the size of a postage stamp and then you never hear from them again even though the casino you have the dispute with begins answering every question with "All complaints have to be made through the Central Dispute System now."

 

[skiny]

I guess it doesn't matter what software you use. I made a deposit at Vegas Joker instead this time. 473 spins from deposit to bankrupt and not a single bonus feature anywhere to be found. Not even one free spin. Of course it's all just bad luck.

 

[skiny]

I also just noticed that Vegas Joker does not offer live support. I didn't think there were any online casinos that didn't offer live support.

 

[NewOrleans]

You all have it wrong.

You are all wrong and right...many many rogue listed casinos are there not because they didn't pay ANYONE but because they didn't pay a few people,usually progressive jackpots or large winnings while paying smaller withdrawals with no problems,if you do play in rogue listed casinos make sure you don't cash out too much at a time...try always cashing out under 400$ at a time.

 

[bb28]

You are all wrong and right...many many rogue listed casinos are there not because they didn't pay ANYONE but because they didn't pay a few people,usually progressive jackpots or large winnings while paying smaller withdrawals with no problems,if you do play in rogue listed casinos make sure you don't cash out too much at a time...try always cashing out under 400$ at a time.

So I'm playing at one of these places and I get a really good run and I'm up $4000.00, but I'll be OK if I just cash out $400 or less at a time?
Give me some of what you are smoking.
Oh and after reading the responses you've received, you are still justifying that it's OK to play at these places, right? Just as long as you don't cash out too much at one time.... Give me another toke of that stuff, it must be awesome!

 

[Pinababy69]

So I'm playing at one of these places and I get a really good run and I'm up $4000.00, but I'll be OK if I just cash out $400 or less at a time?
Give me some of what you are smoking.
Oh and after reading the responses you've received, you are still justifying that it's OK to play at these places, right? Just as long as you don't cash out too much at one time.... Give me another toke of that stuff, it must be awesome!

I'll take some too Bonita.

They're in the rogue pit because they just didn't pay "some" of the players.

I've heard it all now. That means it's okay to just not pay some people right? Screw em...why should they get paid anyway? Do you not realize that those small amounts you're cashing out and getting paid, is money stolen from those players who didn't get paid when they won? It's okay with you that they can pick and choose who they pay....long as you're looked after. Gotcha!!

My God.....it just gets better and better. Sad, sad people. All I know is that I'm so happy I don't have that attitude of me, me, me.

NON PAYMENT OF LEGITIMATE WINNINGS TO JUST ONE PERSON IS NOT OKAY!!!

 

[skiny]

As bloody hard as it is to win these days at any given casino and you're going to play at one that probably isn't even going to pay?

You'd be better off with Minesweeper. "Start, Programs, Games"... You'll find it.

 

[winbig]

They're rare, but there are some software providers that DO stand up for their players.

Look at Gale Wind, in the case of WB vs. Heroes Casino. Gale Wind was the one that footed the $50,000+ bill when Heroes denied WB his winnings. And then they yanked the carpet out from under Heroes and kicked them to the curb.