Playing at one of the rogues...

I played at a couple of rogue casinos with no idea they were rogues. Never won (just like many legit casinos) so never had any big hassles. Just a spam legacy.

Now, I'm not saying everywhere you play needs to be on CM's accredited list, but there are always good reasons casinos land in the rogue pit.

You don't have to make every mistake for yourself, you can learn from other peoples.

You've been very upfront about your deposits being larger than your withdrawals. Mine are too. But a rogue casino will bite you in the behind if you get lucky enough, or get smarter about the cashout button.

Chances are the platforms you like to play at are at a CM accredited casino as well.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum. We can all learn from each other.
 
This is really my first real post in awhile as im in the midst of moving and without a computer and using the public library.

To the original poster, i cant stress how much Pina makes sense and she is right, i used to be one of those peeps and wished i would have followed so many other wise peoples advice on here , including Pina's, its your money granted but there are hundreds of newbies that read about someone winning at a rogue casino and they get hook , lined and suckered into spending money, by any means possable including over the top bonuses ect.

I ask that you sit back and reflect on what you want out of gaming online? If its entertainment with getting paid if you should win, then you need to play at casinos listed under C.M Casinos.

If one person is spared from losing their ass at a rogue casino, cause Pina ruffled someones feathers, so be it. I wish she would have been harder on me in the distant past...................laurie
 
I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

I think the Casinomeister Rouge List is a good orientation but it is not perfect. There are IMHO dangerous casinos missing and there are casinos on this list I wouldn't call roguish.

Same thing with the Accredited Casino List, most of these casinos are really good but with a few of them I already had some smaller problems.
 
I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

*heavy sigh*

Please shoot me now....I give up. :sob:

So as long as they pay you......who cares if they screw over 100 other people right? :rolleyes:
 
*heavy sigh*

Please shoot me now....I give up. :sob:

So as long as they pay you......who cares if they screw over 100 other people right? :rolleyes:
Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

I'm not even support these casinos by giving them my money it's the other way round because of my advantage play.
 
Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

Okay, let's try this as an analogy then.

Every month, at the end of the month....there's a mugger who waits outside the bank and robs little old ladies of their pension cheques. You know who this guy is, and could report him to the authorities....but he's promised he won't rob you personally if you just "look the other way". So as long as your money (and you) are safe, you would just look the other way, and let this guy continue to take advantage of these other people?

Ya know...I'm gonna leave this, cause I just get so pissed off, I really do. But it's a true commentary on today's society and humankind in general. Always looking out for number one, and as long as something doesn't affect you personally, why let it bother you, or take any action against it? People don't care if other people get ripped off on a regular basis, as long as they get taken care of. I find it all really sad.

Your comment that the only one at risk is you really sums it all up. You and the thousands of others who continue to play at these places are the ones who ALLOW them to stay in business. Imagine if every player just refused to play at any casino who doesn't treat EVERY player fairly. What would happen? They would either go out of business, or they would be forced to re-assess their business model and make some serious changes. If players would only realize that they are not powerless in these matters, but it takes solidarity. I am finally realizing that people (in general) just don't give a shit about other people.

People think that I should chill out....well, my response is that I think others should get more fired up about this stuff. Complacency should be a sin.
 
Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.
 
Where is the problem? I don't harm anyone else if I play in a casino labeled as a rogue. I'm the only one who is taking the risk.

I'm not even support these casinos by giving them my money it's the other way round because of my advantage play.


Okay that's all fine and dandy, but what about the next player do you think everyone has such a strategy as yours? No they don't. So this is why this site warns people of such casinos.

Just a quick scenario
Okay put yourself in this scenario say you really won a fantastic hand. You make a withdrawal, then oops they need certain documents from you that you have already provided them. Okay that's done another week goes by. Now they come back, oops they cannot read you documents can you fax them over again. Another week goes by. Then they send a e-mail telling you they received your documents and they are currently awaiting word from the accounting department.

Okay three days go by nothing. You get frustrated and you send an e-mail to them. They don't respond right away then 2 days later they tell you they still waiting to hear from the accounting dept. Now its going on 2 weeks and some days.

Now they come back via e-mail from them stating the matter is now being investigated. Wow you thought they was waiting news from the accounting dept. Now it got escalated to the investigations dept. Why? Because of your play history. Another 2 weeks goes by. Now they closed your account because they felt you did not meet their play requirements. During this time you went through chat, e-mails and phone conversations because this casino refused to pay you.

Now do you see why we have the rogue list. Bryan and the staff went to great lengths to make sure that players can now have the upper hand.
 
I also play in a few rogued casinos regularly because they have good bonus offers and always pay me. And in all of them I'm ahead, so they don't only pay be because for being a losing player.

I think the Casinomeister Rouge List is a good orientation but it is not perfect. There are IMHO dangerous casinos missing and there are casinos on this list I wouldn't call roguish.

Same thing with the Accredited Casino List, most of these casinos are really good but with a few of them I already had some smaller problems.

I actually have to agree. Not all the casinos in the rogue section are there because of nonpayment. And there are many shady places missing.

While Im not an advantage player myself I understand that you have to go to the "dark" side, otherwise you just give up too much EV.

I would target unethical affiliates before advantage players. They are happy to send uninformed players to the slaughter as long as they get their $. Advantage players knows the risks in opposite to new players. I just dont buy it that you keep a casino alive by taking their money.


Shouldn't RTG be stepping in when casinos don't pay their winners?

It's their name on the casinos too.

They are just the software provider. No other software does it either, why should they?
 
They are just the software provider. No other software does it either, why should they?


Because if one or two RTG casinos don't pay those casinos get a bad name. If many casinos don't pay RTG gets a bad name.

I've pretty much given up on RTG slots anyway. Pumping money into RTG slots is starting to seem like beating a dead horse.
 
Because if one or two RTG casinos don't pay those casinos get a bad name. If many casinos don't pay RTG gets a bad name.

I've pretty much given up on RTG slots anyway. Pumping money into RTG slots is starting to seem like beating a dead horse.

RTG's name can't get any worse than it already is. #1 they don't look out for the players at all #2 they allow rogues to continue to operate without yanking their license #3 they allow rogue operators to consistently spam everybody and yet do nothing about trying to stop it...#4, #5, #6, do I really need to continue? :rolleyes:
 
So you call the members of casinomeister for little old ladies now:p

Hey, whatever works. :D

I actually have to agree. Not all the casinos in the rogue section are there because of nonpayment. And there are many shady places missing.

While Im not an advantage player myself I understand that you have to go to the "dark" side, otherwise you just give up too much EV.

I would target unethical affiliates before advantage players. They are happy to send uninformed players to the slaughter as long as they get their $. Advantage players knows the risks in opposite to new players. I just dont buy it that you keep a casino alive by taking their money.

I've said it before.....while I certainly don't take Bryan's accredited list as gospel, it's an extremely good starting point, especially for newbies. There are a couple of places on there, while I may not classify them as rogue, I myself would have them on a not recommended list. But that's personal preference. And at least with his casinos, while you may not have a guarantee....he will stand behind what he offers, and go to bat for you...IF you have followed all the T&C's, etc. He still does a better job than most out there when it comes to being a "responsible" webmaster. I've said before to other people that I probably agree with around 90% of what he says/does in relation to this site. I can't say that about alot of other affy sites/gambling sites, and I am extremely picky. Bryan knows I respect him...he also knows we don't agree on everything, and I've really tried to learn to not take things so personally in the last year or two.

Regarding your comment about going after the affies.....oh trust me, I do. I'm not going to search up my own posts, but they are there. And I agree with you, they are the ones I blame for sending the "unsuspecting" player to play at some of the real shitholes ie. Virtual. Their websites permeate the internet like a goddamn virus, that's out of control. I have come close to getting myself suspended/banned here and other places with some of the scathing remarks I've made to affiliates who defend their "right" to promote whomever they like. Bryan tends to give me a bit more leeway here (I think), because he knows me well enough to understand my intentions are in the right place.

These rogue affiliates who promote the worst places out there, IMO, deserve every scathing comment that I, and others, can throw at them. But much like the drug dealer who peddles his wares on the streetcorner, and the user who buys them....both have to take some responsibility for their own actions. The dealer needs to be shut down, and the user needs to stop, period.

I see no reason to give the players who know better a free pass. They are to blame for keeping these places in business as well. I don't mean the newbie who comes here and posts that he got ripped off by Coolcat, POC, etc. Those people I feel somewhat sorry for. Yes, they should have done some research prior to playing...but okay, everyone makes mistakes. I am referring to the players who give these places their business, knowing full well that the money they are being paid with, has probably come out of the pocket of some, poor unsuspecting newbie whom they first strung along for a month or two...and then decided not to pay them. Yes, I have just as much problem with those players as I do with the affiliates who sent the others there in the first place. Fair is fair. No excuse for going to the dark side Spider. You know for the most part, I think that you and I are on the same page in many industry related matters. But on this subject, we'll have to disagree. It happens.

Players do have power to change things...they really do. The Jackpot Factory media campaign from a few years ago, the English Harbour cheating scandal, the MG white label mess......just a few examples of what players can accomplish if they apply enough pressure in large enough numbers. I'm not sure that any of us had any true effect on the white label thing....but we sure made them sit up and take notice of us, and hopefully at least rethink their business model. But I'll say it again....complacency won't get the job done. People need to get fired up about things, and work together. That goes for the player AND the affiliate.

Can I go have my coffee now? :oops:
 
RTG's name can't get any worse than it already is. #1 they don't look out for the players at all #2 they allow rogues to continue to operate without yanking their license #3 they allow rogue operators to consistently spam everybody and yet do nothing about trying to stop it...#4, #5, #6, do I really need to continue? :rolleyes:

Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.
 
Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.

I personally think that ALL software suppliers should stand behind their licensees. And if they're not willing to do that, then they should be alot more discerning in who they allow to market their product. I have to wonder how many of the new casinos that spring up all the time, actually have "sufficient" funding, and how many open with a shoestring budget.
 
I have to post this.....a friend of mine read this thread this morning, and while he prefers to not get involved in it, he wanted me to know that he understood where I was coming from. Especially in reference to the analogy I posted yesterday, and the complacency issue. He sent me a quote, which I had heard before, but not thought of in years. Yes, it relates to an extreme issue, but just proves my point of how dangerous complacency can be. It is appropriate, and for those of you who wonder why I get so worked up about this stuff....this sums it up.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Pastor Martin Niemller


Okay, so we're talking about online gaming, not the Nazis and the Holocaust. But the premise is the same....and it just goes to show that we all need to look out for each other, no matter what the issue.
 
Exactly the same as any other software provider. At least they dont (not anymore) have any phony "regulatory body" like MG IMO.

Well, there is the Central Dispute System. Which is an entire website that apparently consists of a title page and a blank form. Where you give all your personal information and then type the details of your claim into a box the size of a postage stamp and then you never hear from them again even though the casino you have the dispute with begins answering every question with "All complaints have to be made through the Central Dispute System now." :rolleyes:
 
I guess it doesn't matter what software you use. I made a deposit at Vegas Joker instead this time. 473 spins from deposit to bankrupt and not a single bonus feature anywhere to be found. Not even one free spin. Of course it's all just bad luck.
 
I also just noticed that Vegas Joker does not offer live support. I didn't think there were any online casinos that didn't offer live support.
 
You all have it wrong.

You are all wrong and right...many many rogue listed casinos are there not because they didn't pay ANYONE but because they didn't pay a few people,usually progressive jackpots or large winnings while paying smaller withdrawals with no problems,if you do play in rogue listed casinos make sure you don't cash out too much at a time...try always cashing out under 400$ at a time.
 
You are all wrong and right...many many rogue listed casinos are there not because they didn't pay ANYONE but because they didn't pay a few people,usually progressive jackpots or large winnings while paying smaller withdrawals with no problems,if you do play in rogue listed casinos make sure you don't cash out too much at a time...try always cashing out under 400$ at a time.

So I'm playing at one of these places and I get a really good run and I'm up $4000.00, but I'll be OK if I just cash out $400 or less at a time? :eek:
Give me some of what you are smoking.
Oh and after reading the responses you've received, you are still justifying that it's OK to play at these places, right? Just as long as you don't cash out too much at one time....:eek: Give me another toke of that stuff, it must be awesome!
 
So I'm playing at one of these places and I get a really good run and I'm up $4000.00, but I'll be OK if I just cash out $400 or less at a time? :eek:
Give me some of what you are smoking.
Oh and after reading the responses you've received, you are still justifying that it's OK to play at these places, right? Just as long as you don't cash out too much at one time....:eek: Give me another toke of that stuff, it must be awesome!

I'll take some too Bonita. :laugh:

They're in the rogue pit because they just didn't pay "some" of the players.

I've heard it all now. That means it's okay to just not pay some people right? Screw em...why should they get paid anyway? Do you not realize that those small amounts you're cashing out and getting paid, is money stolen from those players who didn't get paid when they won? It's okay with you that they can pick and choose who they pay....long as you're looked after. Gotcha!!

My God.....it just gets better and better. Sad, sad people. All I know is that I'm so happy I don't have that attitude of me, me, me. :rolleyes:

NON PAYMENT OF LEGITIMATE WINNINGS TO JUST ONE PERSON IS NOT OKAY!!!
 
As bloody hard as it is to win these days at any given casino and you're going to play at one that probably isn't even going to pay?

You'd be better off with Minesweeper. "Start, Programs, Games"... You'll find it.
 
They're rare, but there are some software providers that DO stand up for their players.

Look at Gale Wind, in the case of WB vs. Heroes Casino. Gale Wind was the one that footed the $50,000+ bill when Heroes denied WB his winnings. And then they yanked the carpet out from under Heroes and kicked them to the curb.
 

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