PAB listings in user profiles

[The Dude]

I thought it would be a good idea for everyone to be able to see who is PABing and who isn't. The reason is two-fold: it'll help me and Max to track PABs better - as you know there is a limit to how many times you can PAB for non-accredited casinos, and quite few members disregard this.

It will also give the members a reality check on PABs. (like putting a clock on the wall of a casino).

Plus it's an interesting thing to track

We'll be implementing this in the course of the next few days. When or if you have PABd, an image will appear under your user name. It will show everyone whether it was successful or not - and what sort of PAB it was. Cool eh?

Here is a legend for the images:

[maxd says: whoopsy, looks broken. a new version is here: PAB badges, revisited]

 

[silcnlayc]

as you know there is a limit to how many times you can PAB

Ok, now I have a serious inquiry, about those that have never did a PAB. Do we get some kind of pass for an extra PAB after years of no PAB'ing? Like vacation time being accrued? You know, you haven't used up your lifeline in x amount of years so you get 1 extra life thing (something like that..) Hope you can read between the lines and figure out what I am trying to say ! Thanks!

.

 

[Antonia1953]

You are getting warmer...

 

[KasinoKing]

Will the casinos involved be named too?
I hope so!

KK

 

[The Dude]

Will the casinos involved be named too?
I hope so!

KK

Unfortunately no. Ideally it would be great for the icons to be hyperlinked to a brief summary, but this is the ranking system in vBulletin that's being used. No hyperlinked images, and I'd have to create a secondary user group for each casino......no thank you.

We'll just have to accept "accred, non-accred, rogue" for now

 

[just play]

What if someone didn't want to share that info?

I have never PAB before, and I am not sure I would want the whole world to know (depending on the circumstances I guess)

I also thought knowing the casinos would help players see which casinos are getting PAB. is a good idea.

 

[The Dude]

What if someone didn't want to share that info?

I have never PAB before, and I am not sure I would want the whole world to know (depending on the circumstances I guess)

I also thought knowing the casinos would help players see which casinos are getting PAB. is a good idea.

The only info they share is that they have PABd - it's still rather anonymous.

I think what is good info is to see which PABs are resolved.

Another thing in the works is a "no can do" page which should be up early next week. We are running into a few casinos that just don't want to be bothered with complaining players, so we're placing these casinos on a no PAB list.

 

[Antonia1953]

Are any of these "just can't be bothered" casinos accredited?

 

[The Dude]

Are any of these "just can't be bothered" casinos accredited?

No way in hell. They'd be booted off of the site.

 

[Antonia1953]

No way in hell. They'd be booted off of the site.

I think listing them is a great idea because I can't be bothered with playing at any casinos with that disposition.

 

[The Dude]

Just to add - I think you'll be surprised just how many senior and meister members there are who have never PABd. Most of our recent PABs are from one-hit-wonders. They've never posted in the forum - or perhaps made one or two posts never to be heard of again.

Not that there is something wrong with PABing, it's just that experienced players are savvy enough not to get themselves into a PAB situation IMO. And that's a good thing.

 

[Antonia1953]

I suspected as much, Bryan. For the last several months, I've been making a mental note of the number of new members that come in, post a complaint, get help, reply to a couple of threads and then we don't hear from them again. I know newbies are potential business for affiliates (slightly potential), but I do not believe they bring enough of a return, to justify the time, cost and concern that is invested in them.

 

[lots0]

I don't really like the idea.

I get a big fat PAB under my name...

I have been labeled and categorized... and am now a 2nd class citizen of meisterland... and I don't really like it.
(If I had known before hand I would be getting "Labeled" with this PAB tag... I would have thought twice before I filed a PAB and I never would have recommended others file a PAB.)

FYI - I have NEVER had to PAB a casino for non-payment of gambling money...

Now I feel like I need to explain that the PAB under my name is not really a PAB like most everyone else's is around here.

Just a suggestion, instead of putting the PAB under the name, how about only putting it on the members personal page?

 

[The Dude]

I don't really like the idea.

I get a big fat PAB under my name...

I have been labeled and categorized... and am now a 2nd class citizen of meisterland... and I don't really like it. (If I had known before hand I would be getting "Labeled" with this PAB tag... I would have thought twice before I filed a PAB and I never would have recommended others file a PAB.)

FYI - I have NEVER had to PAB a casino for non-payment of gambling money...

Now I feel like I need to explain that the PAB under my name is not really a PAB like most everyone else's is around here.

Just a suggestion, instead of putting the PAB under the name, how about only putting it on the members personal page?

I thought that these would be a "badge of courage" - something to write home about

Point taken - I'll look into this.

 

[maxd]

Must say, I'm a little surprised at the reactions here. How does having done a PAB make one a "2nd class citizen of meisterland"? What's the shame in having done a PAB? You needed help, we helped you, end of story, no? I'm gob-smacked that it would be taken or interpreted in a negative way.

 

[zebedy]

Just to add - I think you'll be surprised just how many senior and meister members there are who have never PABd. Most of our recent PABs are from one-hit-wonders. They've never posted in the forum - or perhaps made one or two posts never to be heard of again.

Not that there is something wrong with PABing, it's just that experienced players are savvy enough not to get themselves into a PAB situation IMO. And that's a good thing.

But if they did it might be a bit embarrassing to suddenly find a crossed red PAB sign under there name, it may actually put some seasoned posters off PABing,
maybe members with x number of posts could be exempt , just an idea

 

[lots0]

I can understand your point Max. However there seems to be some negative stigma involved in some cases.

If I am not "savvy" enough then the inference is that I must be naive and I don't think anyone likes it when it is inferred they are naive.

A lot of regulars have that attitude/opinion, that is why I feel like I have to now explain to everyone all the time the details of my PAB and no one wants to hear that repeated...

Not that there is something wrong with PABing, it's just that experienced players are savvy enough not to get themselves into a PAB situation IMO. And that's a good thing.

Please don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your help and I often volunteer the fact I have filed a PAB here. So it's not you guys disclosing the information that bothers me.

But I do feel like I have been labeled in a negative way with that big PAB tag under my name.

 

[KasinoKing]

Just a suggestion, instead of putting the PAB under the name, how about only putting it on the members personal page?

I agree with this.
I don't think it's nice to have it displayed under people's names in the open forum.

My 2c.

 

[Swede]

A thorny one for true. I, personally, don't mind the PAB's being displayed below the user name. It's not a measure of the amount of trouble you have gotten yourself in.

PAB's are a corner stone of CM and I've personally been helped by it(thanx max). I wouldn't mind having my whole ordeal enclosed on the forum, perhaps it'll help others in a way, presenting your case, which actions to take/language to use and so forth.

My 2 re(for the Witch to babel )

 

[maxd]

I hear what you're saying lots0 but I think you may be taking Bryan somewhat out of context. Yes, the 'regulars' are generally savvy to the trouble casinos etc, but I don't think B ever intended to imply that if you have had a PAB then there's something 'unsavvy' about you.

It's like drivers: good drivers generally have much fewer accidents than lousy ones, but just because you're in an accident doesn't mean you're a lousy driver.

Since I earn my bread and butter doing PABs I can tell you that there are three categories of PAB that I see:
- the 'one shot wonders': people who pop in, PAB, and run, never to be seen again (these are often crooks and fraudsters hoping to catch a break).
- the 'first timers': folks who PAB because they're new to the game and got into trouble.
- experienced players who got in a jam: sometimes these PABs are from very experienced players who've had troubles with the most reputable casinos.

VERY VERY few of these folks are fools -- some are inexperienced -- but (aside from the first group) a very good percentage of the time the issue is legit and attention did need to be drawn to the situation. There is no shame in it if you ask me.

Another thing, the players that have been in the game a good while usually have a wee bag of tricks of their own when it comes to getting things smoothed out. In other words their often able to pull strings of their own to get trouble dealt with. That's another reason why we don't see a lot of PABs from that end of the player spectrum.

That said I can respect that others have a different view on the situation. It had just never occurred to us that it would upset anyone.

 

[lots0]

I hear what you're saying lots0 but I think you may be taking Bryan somewhat out of context. Yes, the 'regulars' are generally savvy to the trouble casinos etc, but I don't think B ever intended to imply that if you have had a PAB then there's something 'unsavvy' about you.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pick on Bryan, his was just the first example at hand.

Now I feel like I have to explain myself again...
My PAB doesn't fall into any of those categories you listed Max.

I was owed money as an affiliate... The program decided not to pay me a small amount because a powerful affiliate and the owner of CAP was angry with me and told the affiliate program in question not to pay me. The affiliate program did not pay me until the affiliate program wanted to be on the approved section here at CM and I saw the opportunity to pressure them by using CM into paying me.

The only bad decision I made was attempting to do business with crooks, thinking they were honest business people.

[added] I guess I also don't understand... Swede says he's had a PAB but he does not have a tag??? Whats up with that?

 

[vegetagirl2008]

I would suggest instead of using all 3 syllables just use the letter P instead. It wouldn't be so obvious and the member won't feel embarrassed.

 

[maxd]

My PAB doesn't fall into any of those categories you listed Max.

Ok ... I was generalizing. I expect you're not the only one that didn't fit into the three categories ... but that's what generalizations do, the exclude the rare and unusual cases.

The only bad decision I made was attempting to do business with crooks, thinking they were honest business people.

Right, which is why the PAB process was a good thing for you, no? Seriously though, you've got to let go of this 'PAB is for bad people' thing, it's rubbish.

Swede says he's had a PAB but he does not have a tag??? Whats up with that?

I've got to go through and update people's database records by hand. It's a process, it takes some time. You got your's done before I got to him ... it'll work out in the end. Chill man, we're not trying to persecute you.

 

[Boris303]

Well your safe with me, because i don't know what a PAB is? I have read through all of this post and still don't understand, so to me PAB maybe a good thing for all i know.

BTW, im off to do a search to find out what a PAB is, thanks.

 

[jas2587]

Well your safe with me, because i don't know what a PAB is? I have read through all of this post and still don't understand, so to me PAB maybe a good thing for all i know.

BTW, im off to do a search to find out what a PAB is, thanks.

PAB FAQ https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

just look at Maxx'x links in his post Good Luck

Cindy

 

[maxd]

PS. PAB = 'Pitch-A-Bitch', our 'formal' complaint process.

As mentioned above the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ is the place to learn more.

As you may suspect from my avatar (above) and the links in my signature I'm the PAB Manager guy, it's my main activity here.

 

[Boris303]

Gotcha, thanks for the information, i can't remember a single time when i have needed something like that, but its sure nice to know its there

 

[classymom]

I think the PAB process is the best thing to happen to online gaming, but I do see Lotso point. I think his suggestion to put past PAB to members page is a good idea. I think there are questions that get raised when you see the PAB tag on someone's name - whatever the reason may be. I myself was close to filing one, but the casino eventually fixed the issue, and I would not have liked to see the PAB under my name either.

 

[The Dude]

Thanks for the input everyone. What I've done is moved it to the right side and placed it under the rep points. This way it's not so "in your face". Hopefully this is a good middle-ground.

 

[WagerWitch]

Just to add - I think you'll be surprised just how many senior and meister members there are who have never PABd. Most of our recent PABs are from one-hit-wonders. They've never posted in the forum - or perhaps made one or two posts never to be heard of again.

Not that there is something wrong with PABing, it's just that experienced players are savvy enough not to get themselves into a PAB situation IMO. And that's a good thing.

Uhmmmm....

Nope... LMAO!

We just know that there are some kicks that aren't worth the problems that could develop from PAB'ing a casino.

I've only had one major issue with a casino that wasn't eventually resolved - and they aren't members here.

Only ONE casino that has been annoying and had the worst customer service I've EVER seen.

Other than that - I won't usually play at the online casinos that aren't here or at GG.

Most of those casinos don't cause too too many problems.

Glitches, occasional misunderstandings and some interesting reasons why certain things are done a certain way... But most of the two sites list the better online casinos - and there aren't THAT many problems.

Maybe that is the difference?

 

[maxd]

Just a footnote here on the PAB tags:

Some of you may wonder why a PAB tag will suddenly appear or be changed even though it may have been some weeks (or longer) since your PAB was completed. The reason is that I do the PAB tag updates in batches -- a whack of recent and/or old PABs at a time -- so the tags will only appear then.

Sorry for any confusion this may cause, but no need to worry. It's just me eventually getting around to doing what needed to be done.

Regards,
Max, Player Complaints (PAB) Manager
Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[chayton]

I have a question about the one free shot rule. As you can see, I've got a big blue PAB under my name, although it was actually Ray's PAB. I mostly play at accredited casinos but I do play at a few who aren't accredited; they're not rogued or on the no-can-do or not recommended list - they're just floating in limbo. So if I have trouble with any of them I'm screwed?

 

[maxd]

.... So if I have trouble with any of them I'm screwed?

Um, no. Just remind me of the circumstances and you should be good to go.

 

[WyldGirl]

Ok, now I have a serious inquiry, about those that have never did a PAB. Do we get some kind of pass for an extra PAB after years of no PAB'ing? Like vacation time being accrued? You know, you haven't used up your lifeline in x amount of years so you get 1 extra life thing (something like that..) Hope you can read between the lines and figure out what I am trying to say ! Thanks!

.

Oh now that idea could backfire! Non- PABers could get a "past the point of passive" icon for not filing! Cus everone has a a problem at one time or another! LOL
just had to give up that 2 cents!

 

[maxd]

Can't recall if this has been documented elsewhere but a while back Bryan added a new badge:



So yeah, it's a grey PAB badge. In essence it means that a PAB is in progress, no final status as yet assigned.

Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[dionysus]

what is meaning of PAB

pitch a bitch - CM's handy dandy help tool/process when the casino screws ya....er, when you have a problem with the casino

 

[pmutts]

I'm perplexed, "STIGMA" ????

I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the original plan Brian was going to go with. It is indeed interesting. But, everyone does not think like I do of course.

There sure seems to be a lot in the Forum about PABs tonight. I recapped my PAB experience in this thread tonight:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rialto-casino-calling-me-at-home.59863/

It is true that my ridiculous "beef" over a $100 payment (see my post if you are interested) led me to CM--and I am so glad I found the site when I did. I was certainly no PAB and run person! Had I not found CM, there is no telling how much money I would have thrown away at countless rogues that pander to the uninformed American OLG public.

OMG! I just realized how ancient this thread is!