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Daffy
Glaring ommissions on both lists are Tony Gwynn, Paul Molitor, and Brooks Robinson.
Those are three great ambassadors of the game (ignoring Molitor's earlier addictions, Robinson's financial problems, and Tony Gwynn eating EVERYTHING in sight). All 1st or 2nd ballot HOFer's, but not amongst the elite of the elite in performance. Sure, Molitor and Gwynn were especially gifted hitters, for average, but not secondary averages (like slugging %, OBP which is combining walks, hit-by-pitches with batting average). I'll say this, maybe had Molitor not lost so much time in the first half of his career to injuries, and had played 3rd base (because, he was a pretty good defensive player at various positions) for his entire career, I'd think that he could have come close to 4,000 hits and surely would have made my list. But, at which position would you put Molitor under? He played so many, and he went into the HOF as a DH. He's certainly the greatest DH if you ask me (if we include that on our lists).
Gwynn, was once an exceptional fleet-a-foot fielder and baserunner. But he didn't draw many walks, and he could have done so much more in his later years had he just took better care of his body. I would never take Gwynn over Frank Robinson. Robinson was on par with Aaron and Mays in many ways, but is often forgotten about (probably because he missed reaching 3,000 hits).
Brooks Robinson, like Ozzie Smith, is considered one of the greatest defensive specialists to have played the game. I'm not so sure he deserved EVERY one of his Gold Gloves, but nevertheless, he was the best at his position... for defense. His hitting though, not better than Boggs, Schmidt, Brett, or Matthews. And it's often said that Schmidt was just as good defensively as Robinson. Actually, though I do like Brooks Robinson, and he is a HOFer, aside from a couple very good years with the bat, he really wasn't a very good hitter.
A few guys I had left off the list, were Tris Speaker, Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas, Grover Alexander, Craig Biggio (who's still quite good), Greg Maddux, and although he's far from finished, Pedro Martinez (who's the best I've seen with my eyes to date). And I could go with Yaz over Henderson, but Rickey is Rickey!!!
Although it may look like I inserted Seaver for Spear, nope. Seaver was statistically the best pitcher of his era, and he didn't play for very good teams. Carlton, it can be argued, was just as good. And maybe that's true, but I think that Seaver is amongst the greatest ever.
It's difficult comparing players of different eras, because of the changes in the rules, or the mound. While Joe Morgan might agree with this, today's pitcher have MAJOR disadvantages compared to the pitchers from the '60s with the raised mound (hello Sandy Koufax and spacious Dodger Stadium), and although they aren't thought of to be as good as those from the '60s, I would disagree. But getting back to Seaver, he's amongst the elite (some will argue he's the greatest EVER). Nolan Ryan, great K's, great heat, played for a LONG time (which fans and sportwriters love), but IMO, not in the inner-circle of the elite. He may have been popular, and exciting, but I think he was overrated.
George Brett, personally, was greater for his team than Schmidt was for his. I know that may sound ridiculous, because I (and many people) think that Schmidt was THE best 3rd baseman. Why?
- Schmidt wasn't always easy to deal with. Moody, but it's hard not to be playing in Philadelphia (toughest crowd in sports... yes, moreso than Boston fans).
- Brett was the face of the KC Royals, Schmidt is just one of the faces of the Phillies.
- They both won Championships, but Brett's World Series dominance is far more memorable. He almost hit .400 in the early '80s!!!
- They were both drafted the same year, and Brett was actually picked ahead of Schmidt.
- Brett was a great leader. At least, that's the general perception.
But...
While Brett was a very good all-around hitter, Schmidt had exceptional power and plate discipline. Brett was a solid defensive player (Gold Glove level at various times), but he was notorious for looking-off and losing focus during a game, despite being ultra-competitive. Schmidt is compared to Brooks Robinson for being
THE best defensive 3rd-baseman. It's often viewed that Schmidt and Morgan were the best players of their generation (in their respective leagues) between the Mays and Bonds eras. Hey, I like Brett over Schmidt myself, but I think that Schmidt was slightly better.
Okay, dUck, great feedback.
Spearmaster
Actually, he passed away on Jan 6th (yesterday)... another great man for the books.
My mistake, but we're both incorrect (lol). You're off by one lousy day. I'm off by over a month.
He had a stroke on December the 2nd, and he passed-away on the 5th of this month, in Glendale. I just checked-it-up at the
USC site, your old stompin' grounds.
cont...
Will take issue with Rickey because, although a fantastic player, he had a bad attitude, especially when he was with the Mets I'd definitely have Yaz in his place.
I suppose at times, only Rickey likes Rickey. I get a kick out of him though. He's still trying to get back into the game. It must KILL him that Julio Franco signed a 2-year contract to play with the Mets this coming season. By the time his contract is through, he'll be 49!!! Like Rickey, great physical condition
STILL... the Braves will miss him.
Spearmaster, c'mon, we can overlook one bad year with the Mets. It was towards the end of his career (assuming that he IS finished), and 1-year doesn't make a bad career. His first year, he was very good for them. Think of Willie with the Mets, or as you mentioned ealier, Duke Snider at the end of his career. Bobby Valentine wasn't showing Rickey any
love...
Steed
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