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Number 41

Discussion in 'Sports Talk' started by Daffy, Jan 4, 2006.

    Jan 4, 2006
  1. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    There are two Hall of Fame members who sported #41...

    Tom Seaver-Mets
    Eddie Matthews-Milwaukee

    I would like to guess Seaver.

    Let's see what Johnsteed guesses.

    the dUck
     
  2. Jan 5, 2006
  3. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    I think I got it!!!

    ***


    Spearmaster






    Daffy




    Wow, impressive duck!

    I was too busy catching some ZZZZZZZ's...


    I'd have to imagine that Daffy is likely correct. But, I'm going to go in another direction.

    This is what I came up with...


    "Player's who wore #14" would include:


    - Kenty Hrbek (there's no way you're a big Hrbek fan...)


    - Ken Boyer (maybe...)


    - Gil Hodges (possibly, he was a player and manager... but he's generally overlooked in baseball lore)


    - Larry Doby #14 (the first African-American to play in the AL... though in some circles, they'll say that it was in fact Babe Ruth!)


    - Ernie Banks #14 (hmmm...) :thumbsup:


    "Players who wore #4" would include:


    - Duke Snider #4 (could be...)


    - Ralph Kiner #4 (doubt it...)


    - Lou Gehrig #4 (another strong candidate...)


    "Players who wore double-4's" would include...


    - Hank Aaron (HUGE candidate...)


    - Reggie Jackson (Big maybe...)


    - Willie McCovey (possibly...)


    Something a tad more esoteric...


    - My being a HUGE Barry Bonds fan, I'd be quick to think that he's presently 41-years old. Born in July of 1964. But, there aren't many of us Lamar Bonds fans left these days... I'll pass. :rolleyes:


    - Rafeal Palmeiro is also born in 1964, making him 41-years old as well. But... literally after being showered with praises from the media and fans alike, after reaching 3,000 hits, just 2 weeks later, it was all forgotten about after the "steroid" debacle came about... :oops: I'll pass.



    "Going out-of-box a little further" with...


    - Don Wilson wore #40 and Pee Wee Reese wore #1, add them together and you get "41"? (it's a trick question, because you like 2 players... pass) :what:


    - Jackie Robinson wore #42 and subtract Pee Wee Reese's #1 from his and again... you get "41" (pass...) :confused:


    - Albert Pujols slugged 41 HR's this past year... (pass)


    ***

    Okay, I was leaning with someone from the trifecta of (as Daffy said) Tom Seaver, Eddie Matthews, or an (my guess) Ernie Banks.


    But... :what: I'm going to say that it's "Jack Chesbro". The only modern-day (although not so modern anymore) 41-game winner. Mr. Chesbro did this in 1904 with the New York Highlanders. That's my guess.


    Sidenote: I was going to guess Ernie Banks because I'm guessing that Spearmaster was once a native of Chicago... Just a hunch that's way-out-there...



    Steed


    ***
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2006
  4. Jan 5, 2006
  5. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Do I seem that old to you? ;)

    Daffy was right on the mark, and I bet you knew it too but decided to make it more interesting :)

    "Terrific Tom" aka "The Franchise" happened to be wearing the uniform number which was on my door. As unlikely a coincidence as any that he would turn out to be a Hall of Famer, since this was way back in 1971 when he was still in the early but devastatingly effective stages of his career.
     
  6. Jan 5, 2006
  7. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    Darn-it, I was wrong...

    ***


    Spearmaster



    Well, I'll give him this much, the duck knows his baseball. :thumbsup:


    I wouldn't have gone with Eddie Matthews in the end because he wasn't overly likeable. Nothing wrong with him, great numbers that grab one's attention, considering he was manning the hot corner.


    I was thinking Ernie Banks, because he's likeable (and there are a lot of Cubbies fans out there). I find him annoying as hell, but others love his upbeat persona.


    Tom Seaver also makes sense (but since it was taken, I decided to go in a completely opposite direction), playing a major role on that "Miracle Mets" team of '69 (frankly, he WAS the team that year) and again in '73. He's by far, the best of that incredible crop of pitchers who came up through the '60s (like F. Jenkins, S. Carlton, J. Palmer, D. McLain, J Kaat, V. Blue, D. Sutton, L. & P. Neikro, J. Marichal and B. Gibson).


    Alas, your pick was Seaver.



    Question: Who would rank as being greater, Seaver or Clemens?


    cont...




    Hey, I'm a Lou Gehrig fan, and he passed-away WAYYYYY before I was born. I thought you were testing my baseball I.Q. with that one. :D I went a little too esoteric on this one... my bad. :oops:


    Is it safe to say, that prior to living in Heaven, you once lived in N.Y.?



    Steed


    ***
     
  8. Jan 5, 2006
  9. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Tough call. Plus I'd probably add Bob Gibson to make this a trio...

    Seaver, like you said, WAS the team quite often, even with Nolan Ryan around. He never truly had a super team to support him.

    Clemens was great - no question about that - and he still is. But he was also surrounded by stars most of his career.

    Gibson - never made the most of his talent and didn't always have a good supporting cast. But he was arguably one of the best pitchers of his time.

    Ryan - same - going to Anaheim ruined his career.

    Given this set of circumstances, I would have to take Seaver over the rest of them, with Clemens about an inch behind.

    I was born in New Jersey :) But I ain't NEVER going back again - ever since the casinos arrived, the state has gone straight to hell.
     
  10. Jan 5, 2006
  11. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    You mean, there was a time when New Joisy wasn't hell? :D :lolup:

    Maybe back around 1787, but I think that descent happened even before your time, spear. :thumbsup:
     
  12. Jan 5, 2006
  13. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Wow...can't believe I got that one...lol.

    I was torn too...my first bat was an Eddie Matthews.

    I did think it would be a Hall of Famer since Spear has very high standards.

    Oustanding research again Mr. Steed.:notworthy

    *******************************************************
    Top of the "Looney Toons" avatar list would be great...:D

    *******************************************************
    More trivia...

    As a child, my favorite player played centerfield in New York...

    He has been named in a least one popular song that I know of...

    Keep in mind that I am a Grandpa (4 times over)...that should give you an approximate time frame.

    the dUck
     
  14. Jan 5, 2006
  15. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    The suspense...

    ***


    Okay Duck, I'm up to the task. ;)


    It ain't Mickey Mantle (N.Y. Yankees)... no song... next...


    It ain't Willy Mays (New York Giants)... no song either...


    It ain't Bernie Williams (N.Y. Yankees)... he creates songs... but no one sings about him...


    It ain't Duke Snider (Brooklyn Dodgers)... no song...


    But it sure as hell has got to be "Joltin' Joe DiMaggio"... who's been in at least 2 songs.


    Okay, so I wanted it to be a little dramatic. It's got to be Joe DiMaggio. "The Greatest Living... oops... :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy


    Sidenote: Joe and brothers Dom and Vince, were ALL excellent centerfielders. In fact, some baseball aficionados will say that Dom (seemingly least likely by appearance) was in fact the best defensively.


    I love these questions Daffy! :thumbsup:

    Keep 'em coming...

    ***


    Spearmaster




    Wow, solid point on Gibson. Viewed as one of the meanest pitchers to have ever played (he had that Michael Jordan intensity when he pitched... a sport assassin). Hard having to play in the same era as Sandy Koufax and Juan Marichal (although Marichal is certainly underrated).

    With Ryan, ask lots of baseball fans, and more than likely, he'll be RIGHT at the top of their lists. No arguments here with his being considered a great pitcher, but in the same class as Seaver, Jenkins, or a Carlton... nope. Lots of heat behind his pitches, lots of K's, and lots of mediocrity that came with it.

    Sidenote: I believe Jack Chesbro had been inducted into Cooperstown.



    Steed

    ***
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2006
  16. Jan 5, 2006
  17. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Joltin' Joe, alias Mr. Marilyn (LOL) would definitely be my choice as well :)

    Now, does anyone remember who "gifted" the Mets their last World Series? :D
     
  18. Jan 5, 2006
  19. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Bruce Grobelaar?

    No wait...i know this one! Golden Palace bought them the trophy on the understanding they all named their first-borns "Golden Palace"?
     
  20. Jan 5, 2006
  21. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Joltin' Joe is incorrect...sorry...although I did like Marylyn...

    There was a song a few years ago and one line went "Willie, Mickie, and the Duke"...I think the song name was "Talking Baseball" (or something like that). Might have just been popular in the US.

    First line of my trivia is the major clue...

    That's probably too many clues...lol...

    the dUck
     
  22. Jan 5, 2006
  23. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    Billy B...

    ***

    Bill Buckner.


    Unfairly put on him though. :cool: Why?


    a) He shouldn't have been in the game, he was injured at the time.

    b) Others were making critical mistakes, as well.


    Poor 'ol Billy Buckner (a very solid player for a good number of years) will forever be dubbed a loser. :(


    Do I get that free dinner again? :D


    Steed


    ***
     
  24. Jan 5, 2006
  25. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I'm not so sure it was unfairly pinned on him, though he definitely didn't belong in the field at the time. And I felt really, really sorry for him, and even more so for the Red Sox... which is why I was actually elated when they finally claimed the Series.

    Buckner was definitely a solid player and surely does not deserve his "loser" tag however. It's sad that this one moment will define his career - but he, in good grace, has even signed a whole bunch of pictures of that moment :)

    Daffy, surely you aren't talking the Bambino, are you? :)

    Simmo - nice one... LOL... must admit he was a definite character - but that's the REDS, not the METS :)

    Macgyver - once upon a time, New Jersey was the playground of the East Coast - keep that in mind everytime you get an "Advance to Boardwalk" Chance card in Monopoly :) But since 1977, the year I left, it has gone nothing but downhill, save for when Bill Bradley was senator.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2006
  26. Jan 5, 2006
  27. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    I'm laying down my cards...

    ***


    Guess I've been in Korea for too long. :oops:


    There was a song a few years ago and one line went "Willie, Mickie, and the Duke"...I think the song name was "Talking Baseball" (or something like that). Might have just been popular in the US.



    (Steed is thinking to himself...) "Okay, my guesses are off. I'm down to my last few poker chips here..." :(


    (...still thinking...) "Duke Snider, naw only a select few would take him first. Wait, he... naw. It ain't him." :cool:


    (...narrowing down the final two in his head...) "Hmmm, Mickey or Willie. Willie? Everybody loves Willie Mays. But... The "Mick" and what could have been if he weren't always injured? The "Say Hey Kid" could do it all, but so could Mickey. Mickey was a winner, but Mantle was a Champion... what-to-do... what-to-do... :cool:


    Okay duck, I'm all in. I'm pushing all my chips forward, because I'm not going to go 3-and-0 in this thread. It's the "Commerce Comet"...


    "Mickey Mantle!!!"
    :oops:


    What's the verdict, do I win the Jeep Cherokee or what? :confused:


    To be continued...


    Steed



    ***
     
  28. Jan 5, 2006
  29. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    If it's not Mickey, I don't know who it is...

    ***


    Wait! If Spearmaster is right, the Bambino, I'm going to throw a "hissy-fit". I don't think Babe Ruth played any other positions BUT right-field or left-field
    (AND he also pitched). I'd think that while Ruth was more agile than people give him credit for, but I can't see how he was able to man center.


    Hmmm, if you're as "finely-aged" as much as I think you are, could it be one of the following...


    - Zack Wheat

    - George Burns (not the comedian)

    - Duffy Lewis

    - Earle Combs

    - Edd Roush

    - Max Carey


    Whew... I'm out of people.


    ***


    Spearmaster




    Now, you see... Why can't they turn make that a casino game? And someone has GOT to make "'UNO" a casino game as well.


    Spearmaster


    Hmmm, "Knicks" fan by any chance "Spearmaster"?


    Steed


    ***
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2006
  30. Jan 5, 2006
  31. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Spear posted...
    "Ryan - same - going to Anaheim ruined his career."

    Won 20 games twice and 19 twice with Anaheim.

    7 no-hitters...12 one-hitters...

    All-time strikeout leader...

    3.19 lifetime era...

    27 years in the majors...

    I believe he had a decent career after leaving the Mazing Mets...lol.

    I will admit he pitched two extra unsuccessful years in Texas 'cause the Rangers begged him to stay. He was their gate...an automatic sellout. They even gave him a life time service contract at one million per year. (He opted out of this contract just last year...his choice.)

    I remember when he was in Anaheim pitching those twi-light games (sunlight to shadow)...he was untouchable...bookies wouldn't even put a line on the game.

    the dUck
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jan 5, 2006
  33. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    And what kind of teams did he face? :) Leaving the National League at that time was like going to an inferior league... LOL...

    Ryan is a Hall of Famer for a reason - no questions about his qualifications either :) And don't forget he never had to lift a bat again... and Terrific Tom hit a few homers in his heyday!

    As for the Bambino, I'm not entirely certain either - but did he not at one time man the deep end?

    Monopoly is a favorite slot in Vegas... just ask the Meister... but can't recall having seen Uno yet.

    Need I mention who my favorite basketball player of all time is? Or team, for that matter?

    As for football - 12, and Navy. No more clues.
     
  34. Jan 5, 2006
  35. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    As a child in the 50's, my primary form of entertainment was baseball...

    Only tv was black and white...just three available channels...

    Only baseball available was on Saturday afternoon...Dizzy Dean and Peewee Reese...Game of the Week...Hamms beer was the sponser(loved those little bears)...

    I hated the YANKEES...

    I said my favorite player played centerfield in New York...not for New York...

    That leaves Willie and the Duke...last chance John Steed.
    *******************************************************
    I believe the bambino played right and pitched as JS has posted.

    the dUck
     
  36. Jan 5, 2006
  37. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    As for football - 12, and Navy. No more clues.


    Captain America-Roger Staubach:D


    the dUck
     
  38. Jan 5, 2006
  39. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    Some thoughts on Ryan...

    ***

    Wow, I'm loving this.

    It's been a LONG time since having a "real" baseball discussion without having to talk about Chan Ho Park or Byung-Yun Kim. :rolleyes:




    In some ways though, it did hurt him for a while. While I'll agree that he needed to get out of New York (pitching behind Seaver), he played on a lot of bad Anaheim teams.

    Great points about his accomplishments, and they're all great, but, you know what, if you look at every team he's been on, he's never "clearly" been the teams best pitcher.

    - Seaver with the Mets.

    - Frank Tanana is not a HOFer, but, he was considered better than Ryan while both were pitching with the Angels (say for Ryan's first year or two... which would coincide with Tanana learning the ropes...). That is, gradually through the '70s.


    - Joe Niekro with the Astros.


    - Bobby Witt/Kevin Brown with the Rangers.

    Sure, he's had a greater career than these other pitchers, but they were generally his equal in the years that he played with them (say for Seaver... who was so much better at that time).

    It's odd though, that Ryan never did win a Cy Young Award, and only led the league in ERA twice. He struck-out the most players in the history of baseball, AND he also walked the most players in the history of baseball. For every brilliant thing he did, there was an equally unimpressive flaw that got overlooked.


    Nevertheless Daffy, great points (and prompt)! :thumbsup:


    Steed

    ***
     

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