Number 41

Little League Mets... LOL... not a chance in hell I would have ever been spotted by the real Mets... :) But it was the one team I wanted to play for even in Little League... and I had gotten my wish only for it to be spoiled by a pair of glasses... then I moved to Hong Kong before I got a chance to play high school soccer or football... the only real remaining hope of being a star athlete was to get to the Olympics one way or another as a Hong Kong representative - sadly, that would also never come true even though I was a HK champ in many disciplines.

But I did get to work at the 1984 Olympics as a security supervisor... hence my meeting with Detlef Schrempf, and in 1983 I appeared on That's Incredible, hence my meeting with Fran Tarkenton and that s..t Cathie Lee Crosby... god, life at USC was fun :)
 
More baseball...

Must set the record straight on some items...

(1)You guys have been very gracious with my Carlton selection...thanks. I put the position players in order...not the pitchers. I posted if one game...Ford gets the ball. A wiley veteran who excelled in the "big" game.

(2) Cal Ripkin Jr. was all business until his last year. After every game his last year...he would find a place to sit in the stands (with two security guards) and use a new pen to sign autographs until it ran out of ink. Only requirements were that the seekers must converse with him and present only one item. I think his previous demeanor was due to the fact that his whole family was in baseball...they never considered themselves celebrities.

(3) Rickey Henderson was one of the first self-promoters...lol. He revealed a standing bet he used to have with Jose Canseco. If Henderson is on third with less than two outs...Canseco wins $100 if he gets him home and loses $100 if he strands him. According to Henderson...Canseco used to keep him in extra pocket money...lol.

The night Henderson proclaimed himself the "greatest"...he got "upstaged" by another player on all the sports channels and the next day in most of the papers. Then, two years later RH was the "goat" for this same player.

Can you name that player???

the dUck
 
***

Got it!

Nolan Ryan


I know why he overshadowed Henderson, because of his "no-hitter" (and if memory serves me right, it was against the Blue Jays... and Robert Alomar was his last out...)

Funny story, Robert Alomar was the final out in Nolan Ryan's 7th "no-hitter", but did you know that Sandy Alomar Sr. was the last out in Ryan's very 1st no-hitter.


Am I right?


***
 
***


HAHAHA, classic. :lolup: :notworthy I guess Spearmaster's internet connection is faster than mine. Damn PC Rooms, clogging-up everything. :mad: Great stuff! :thumbsup:

Hey dUck, what was the second incident involving Ryan? All I can think of was the time Robin Ventura rushed-the-mound, and Ryan started slaughtering him.


Steed

***
 
I don't know what happened two years later, but seven years later Rickey was Nolan's 5000th strikeout :)

oops... don't know where I saw 1998 out of 1993... LOL...
 
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You guys are too good...lol.

Ryan's 7th no-hitter('91)...then Henderson was the 5,000th strikeout('93).

*******************************************************
ESPN Projected NFL draft...

(1)Bush to Houston (already have a QB committment)

(2)Leinart to New Orleans (who are trying to move to Los Angeles because of Katrina)

(3)Young to Tennessee (to eventually replace McNair)

the dUck
 
***


Daffy


(3) Rickey Henderson was one of the first self-promoters...lol. He revealed a standing bet he used to have with Jose Canseco. If Henderson is on third with less than two outs...Canseco wins $100 if he gets him home and loses $100 if he strands him. According to Henderson...Canseco used to keep him in extra pocket money...lol.


That caught my eye. Last year with the whole debacle between Canseco and literally EVERYONE in MLB (concerning steroids and many other wild topics) on the other end of the spectrum, Rickey Henderson said he believed a lot of what Canseco had to said about other players in his book. I do like Henderson, maybe he does have the most SB's, but he doesn't have the most credibility either. I'd have to think that by Canseco only having Henderson's support (if you want to call it that), was not the kind of backing he needed to make yourself look good.


Steed

***
 
spearmaster said:
Is Young really going to declare, or are Tennessee going to waste a pick on luck?

Not yet declared...but all signs point to "yes" according to ESPN insiders. Onlt thing left for him to attain is the Heisman...not worth the injury risk say the experts.

*********************************************************
Canseco has always been the "clown" of baseball. He was ridiculed to no end over his book "Juice". Pro athletes never embrace those "tell all" books. His allegations rocked baseball...some of the users named were potential HOF selections.

Everyone initially denied everything(except maybe Giambi)...called him a promoter...and testified in Congress that his book was a pack of lies.

However, as time goes on, looks like his book is accurate with only a few slight exaggerations. I haven't read it yet.

To Canseco's credit, he has campaigned that Baseball/Congress should get a better grip on steroid testing before accessing penalties to the players.

According to him(with substantial medical backup)...steroids have a "meta-life" that is impossible to detect how recent the useage.

For example...a player could have been given a steroid by a physician 7-8 years ago to promote healing an injury(this was very common) and it still be in the player's chemical makeup today. It would not be possible under current testing procedures to determine if this steroid was from recent usage or a previous(legal) occasion.

Congress/Baseball in their misplaced "witch hunt"...have completely dismissed these facts. I think some innocents are going to be(have been) embarassed and punished.

Funny...Pres Bush called for a steroid cleanup of college/pro sports in his State of the Union address. Who gets busted??? His friend...Rafael Palmero.
Who's the whistle blower??? Canseco. Both played for Texas when Bush was the owner.

the dUck
 
***


Daffy

Funny...Pres Bush called for a steroid cleanup of college/pro sports in his State of the Union address. Who gets busted??? His friend...Rafael Palmero.
Who's the whistle blower??? Canseco. Both played for Texas when Bush was the owner.


That's right. After Palmeiro failed the random testing, I remember a quote from Bush saying that he felt that Palmeiro was his friend (as you had pointed out), and that he believed him, because of his having testified in public. And that was the end of that (with Bush).

In a way, I never fully understood why Bush pushed this thing as hard as he did. What's the hidden agenda? I always wondered if it's because Bonds didn't sign with the RANGERS back in '93 (lol), and that he was looking to get back-at-him with a smear campaign. Seriously though, I seem to recall that it was Bud Selig that beat-out Bush for Commissioner of Baseball, which was the job that Bush really wanted for many years. I guess he was still pissed-off.

It's funny how quickly people will change their perceptions of a player. Two weeks before that, they were talking about how he's a great family man (which, I'd think he still is), a solid teammate, and how wonderful his numbers were. I guess his fans felt cheated, and they literally all turned on him after the steroids debacle was revealed.


cont...

To Canseco's credit, he has campaigned that Baseball/Congress should get a better grip on steroid testing before accessing penalties to the players.


He did do that, and I would have to think that many years from now, he'll be considered some kind of luminary (for cleaning-up the sport). Can't say that I would agree with that per se, because I don't necessarily feel that Canseco stands for justice. He himself has been ticked-off with MLB for quite some time, feeling as though the league was trying to keep him out (when in fact HE was the reason he wasn't in the league any longer).


cont...

To Canseco's credit, he has campaigned that Baseball/Congress should get a better grip on steroid testing before accessing penalties to the players.

According to him(with substantial medical backup)...steroids have a "meta-life" that is impossible to detect how recent the useage.

For example...a player could have been given a steroid by a physician 7-8 years ago to promote healing an injury(this was very common) and it still be in the player's chemical makeup today. It would not be possible under current testing procedures to determine if this steroid was from recent usage or a previous(legal) occasion.

Congress/Baseball in their misplaced "witch hunt"...have completely dismissed these facts. I think some innocents are going to be(have been) embarassed and punished.


(lol) Geez, dUck, I'm starting to wonder if you're a "baseballprimer" member. Too much steroids talk really killed the fun for me, thus I moved-on. Nevertheless, great points. :thumbsup:


Sidenote: This is the first stretch in years where I've not heard boo about Barry Bonds.


Steed

***
 
Thanks JS,

Bush attacks Baseball (using Congress) to get even with Bud Selig...never thought of that.:thumbsup:

His State of the Union was sooooo weird..."stop terrorism"..."weapons of mass destruction"..."let's clean up sports".

I figured this was damage control for Bush from Canseco's book since so many Rangers were implicated.
*******************************************************
Bonds was lead story on ESPN thru the summer..."would he play this year???"

He was rehabbing his knee...but speculation was he was trying to get "cleaned up" from steroid cream/lotion.

Incidently...according to Dr Canseco (lol)...cream is not as potent as mainline shot.

Bonds furor subsided when he came back for the final few weeks of the season....of course by then the Terrell Owens/Eagles soap opera was in full swing.

the dUck
 
***

Daffy

Bonds furor subsided when he came back for the final few weeks of the season....of course by then the Terrell Owens/Eagles soap opera was in full swing.


And thank GOD for that. That's all I was reading/hearing about for a good year. Being a fan of Bonds, I'm glad that there hasn't been much said about him recently lately, he can focus (not that he ever loses it) on preparing, rather than fielding questions. Since the end of the baseball season, I haven't seen one single article on him in any of the major sports sites (ESPN, Fox Sports, S.I.), just a couple of small references pertaining to him and the GIANTS.

***

cont...

Incidently...according to Dr Canseco (lol)...cream is not as potent as mainline shot.


Hahaha, the "Dr." part is right. I loved how he was promoting steroids, saying how if they're properly injected (with the right dossage), it can make your life that much better (I believe he even said "healthy" if used correctly). I'm sure he has some valid points, but he seems to have been ignoring the oh-so-many side-effects that result from using steroids. He focusses too much on the advantages.

Well, I'll give Jose this much, he's most certainly entertaining. :D


***

Hey Daffy, Spearmaster (if he's still lurking in the background somewhere) or anyone else for that matter, I'd love to read about who you'd consider to be the "Top-10" ("20") athletes of "All-Time". Any sport you can think of. I guess in some circles, Poker is considered a sport, but I have a difficult time picturing Doyle Brunson or Annie Duke doing anything other than sitting-down... not exactly athlete material. :D


Steed


***
 
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"Hey Daffy, Spearmaster (if he's still lurking in the background somewhere) or anyone else for that matter, I'd love to read about who you'd consider to be the "Top-10" ("20") athletes of "All-Time". Any sport you can think of. I guess in some circles, Poker is considered a sport, but I have a difficult time picturing Doyle Brunson or Annie Duke doing anything other than sitting-down... not exactly athlete material."

Roger Bannister (first 4 minute mile) and Mark Spitzer (record harvest of Olympic gold for swimming) would have to be on such a list imo.
 
Mark Spitzer: novelist, poet and literary translator (might swim also, but better known as a poet).

Mark Spitz: achieved an Olympic record in 1972 that may never be equaled (seven gold medals). Currently works as a motivational speaker (but does not live in a van by the river). :thumbsup:
 
johnsteed said:
***

Hey Daffy, Spearmaster (if he's still lurking in the background somewhere) or anyone else for that matter, I'd love to read about who you'd consider to be the "Top-10" ("20") athletes of "All-Time". Any sport you can think of. I guess in some circles, Poker is considered a sport, but I have a difficult time picturing Doyle Brunson or Annie Duke doing anything other than sitting-down... not exactly athlete material. :D


Steed


***


Hummm, tough assignment. You have to consider the calibre of amazing athletes who have graced all sports.

Football:

Joe Montana: too bad he's doing so much TV work now.

Jerry Rice: amazing wide receiver; less amazing dancer.

Baseball:

Nolan Ryan: ditto on the TV work.

Hockey:

Wayne Gretzky. Just whisper the name and people pay attention.


Oh well, that's a start.
 
suzecat said:
Mark Spitzer: novelist, poet and literary translator (might swim also, but better known as a poet).

Mark Spitz: achieved an Olympic record in 1972 that may never be equaled (seven gold medals). Currently works as a motivational speaker (but does not live in a van by the river). :thumbsup:

OK, OK, OK - I stand corrected!

What about Lance Armstrong (multiple Tour de France winner)?
 
jetset said:
What about Lance Armstrong (multiple Tour de France winner)?

OK< the doping hoopla has died down...................my former husband is a cyclist...........I guess that particular activity somehow slipped my mind.

Undoubtedly, Lance should be on the list of amazing athletes!
 
Talking of great sportsmen, how come nobody has mentioned Pele, the greatest football (soccer to Americans) player?
 
Some thoughts...

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If we're talking outside of the major sports, I'd have to think that Lance Armstrong would have to rank amongst the top. He may participate again (despite saying that he's retiring), as I recently heard that Sherryl Crow has been urging him to keep pushing.

***

I was thinking about a list for some of the greatest "Female Athletes", and I think it would go like this.


Babe Didrikson Zaharias (1911-1956) - What did she do? She won 3 Olympic medals. Not only that, but she also won 31 LPGA titles!!! And here's a list of some of the other things she did.


- AAU All-American high school basketball player

- In 1932, she single-handedly won the AAU team track and field championship (finishing 5 of the 8 events she had entered)

- '32 Summer Olympics she won 2 gold medals (she broke 2 records that were both hers), and would have won a 3rd had they not ruled her technique in the high jump ineligible (she finished with a silver)

Sidenote: She's from Beaumont, Texas... to which the dUck may know a thing or two about her.


Martina Navratalova (1956- ) - What did she do? She won 167 singles titles!!! She won 18 Grand Slam events (tied with arch-nemesis Chris Evert... whom she held the head-to-head edge at 43-37 in for victories). As far as I know, Navratalova was playing in the tour last year in Doubles... AMAZING!!! I know that Steffi Graf has more Gland Slam titles (22 total), but she didn't have to go up against Chris Evert every other game. You could argue Graf (or Evert for that matter) over Navratalova, but I don't see it.


Sidenote: Did you know that in '88, Steffi Graf won all 4 majors as well as an Olympic gold.


Nadia Comaneci (1961- ) - What did she do? At the '76 Olympics, she scored 7 10s (absolute perfection) in the "uneven bars" in the compulsory round. She'd go on to win 3 gold, 5 medals in total, and another 2 golds in '80, taking her total medal count up to 5 gold, 3 silver, and 1 bronze.


I was also considering Jackie Joyner-Kersee (track-and-field), Steffi Graf (tennis), Chris Evert (tennis), Cheryll Miller (basketball), Sonja Henie (figure skating), Tracy Caulkins (swimming), amongst a host of others.


***


GrandMaster


Talking of great sportsmen, how come nobody has mentioned Pele, the greatest football (soccer to Americans) player?


Most certainly the greatest soccer player of All-Time. He scored 1,280 goals in 1,360 games (which is 2nd All-Time next to another Brazilian by the name of Arthur Friedenreich with 1,329). He set the records for international goals at 97.


Here's a quote from a biography on him:


"He scored an average of a goal in every international game he played--the equivalent of a baseball player's hitting a home run in every World Series game over 15 years."


Well, isn't that something.


***


suzecat

Wayne Gretzky. Just whisper the name and people pay attention.


Most hockey fans and non-hockey fans (heck, isn't that pretty much the world) would pick Gretzky as the greatest in hockey (and maybe in all sports). I would have taken Gretzky in a heartbeat up until a couple of years agok, and I would have probably selected him as being the greatest in all of sports pre-Jordan era (oddly enough, I have a friend who lives in Vegas, and he's seen them hanging-out at the casinos on more than one occasion... gold buddies as well... with Lemieux). Now, I'm not so sure anymore. I don't have a problem with his being the greatest, but there's a compelling argument that a Bobby Orr or a Mario Lemieux are/were just as good.


Both players have suffered from too many injuries that hurt there careers. With Orr, it was the knees, and he was done, when most players are at their peak. Orr had jets, a booming shot, smarts on par with Gretzky and Lemieux, a winning attitude, grace (but he was tough), and not mentioned enough, was that he was exceptionally gifted defensively.


With Lemieux, people always think of his size as being to his advantage, but I think it may have hurt him (like it's hurting Eric Lindros... who should have been the next one... not Sidney Crosby). But his hands and vision are just as great as Gretzky's. They can read plays before they happen. Lemieux used to be quite fast (quick no... but long-stride fast), sneaky like Gretzky, and again, like Gretzky, he slow the game down to a crawl and do wonderful things. Also note, that Lemieux played a great portion of his career in an era that was depressed of goal scoring. Only this year, after roughly 10-years, has scoring been up. Lucky for Sidney Crosby (who's going to be something special).


There's no downside to Gretzky really, but he DID come at a time where goals were scored in bucket loads by the period (never mind the game total). Believe you me, he used to come into the ******** Arena, and destroy my beloved Jets (no more hints about my origins). I know what he could do. Watching the Oilers at that time, it was disappointing if they didn't score at LEAST 6 goals in a game (the league on team-per-team basis could barely muster up more than 2 goals per game... yuck!). But my point is that he played when there were so many players registering 100 points per season.

Had Gretzky played the majority of his career (and at his peak) in the '90s until now (like Lemieux), there's no way he EVER would reached beyond the 200 points in year (he did that 4 times), ditto with his 92 goals. Believe you me, '80s hockey was awesome. The '90s for the most part was garbage. Glad to see it's changing.


***


suzecat

Football:

Joe Montana: too bad he's doing so much TV work now.

Jerry Rice: amazing wide receiver; less amazing dancer.


Those are the two who're at the top of my list of receivers and quarterbacks. I'm not actually from the Bay Area, but I happen to like their teams. I remember seeing Montana at the end of his career with Kansas City, and there was this Monday Night Football game against Denver in '94. The Chiefs made a wonderful comeback, and won the game with 8 seconds left to beat the Broncos (who were a GREAT team at that time). I've seen quite a few NFL games, and that ranks RIGHT at the top of them.

I don't think there are too many athletes who've trained harder than Jerry Rice. He's still in amazing shape, and even in a reduced role, could still have played this year. He's far from what he was 10-years ago, but will always have great hands.


Great stuff :thumbsup:

Steed

***
 
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Boy, this thread has taken on new life!

Never would've believed it would start with an innocent question... LOL...

Babe Didrikson - undoubtedly a fine choice and one I completely agree with - sadly, though, she is barely known outside the US.

Nadia was great too but I wouldn't put her in a top 10 list, I think...

Cheryl *was* my classmate at USC and one hell of an athlete and she would probably make my list - she used to beat Reggie in their backyard - yes *the* Reggie...

Martina - not all that sure. A great athlete too - but Steffi left at the top of her career - if she had continued I think she would have made Martina look rather ordinary... and besides which if you want to nominate Martina, you should nominate one of her former partners Nancy Lieberman as well :) And I'd add Billie Jean King and Evonne Goolagong to the list from tennis as well.

Jackie is not a bad choice either. She too is an exceptional athlete.

Annika Sorenstam would have a good claim too - but just wait for Michelle Wie... time's on her side.

For the men...

Lance must be on the list - can't ignore someone who has won the Tour de France seven times... absolutely incredible.

Michael Jordan is another must. He didn't quite make it in baseball but he sure as hell had the talent.

Jim Thorpe hasn't been mentioned either, but he was a true multi-discpline athlete battling against discrimination as well.

Gretzky may be "The Great One" but he had many other in his sport who could also lay claim to fame - still, he's a good choice.

Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus also deserve consideration.

Baseball - too many greats to count but I'd give Babe Ruth an edge.

Football - hmm. I can't say I'd choose anyone from this lot - Montana and Rice were exceptional athletes, but so were Namath, OJ, Staubach and many others.

Soccer - Pele is a must, as is Maradona - undeniably the two greatest footballers ever. Ronaldinho and Ronaldo may also crack this level, as well as Zidane (sorry Simmo, ain't no British footballer I've ever seen which come anywhere close).

How's that for a start? I'm sure I can think of some other athletes in other disciplines when my head stops aching... LOL...

and btw, as for Spitz - a great athlete indeed - but he can't hold a candle to some of today's swimmers. From Olympic history, I'd have to name Carl Lewis as the most deserving, even if I don't like him all that much.

Oops! Forgot tennis... Bjorn Borg, Andre Agassi, Pete Sampras, Jimmy Connors, Ken Rosewall... Borg probably the most deserving at present - although I think Boris Becker was the most athletic of them all.
 
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***

Spearmaster

Oops! Forgot tennis... Bjorn Borg, Andre Agassi, Pete Sampras, Jimmy Connors, Ken Rosewall... Borg probably the most deserving at present - although I think Boris Becker was the most athletic of them all.


I liked how you threw-in the part about Becker being the most athletic of the bunch. "Boom-Boom" was truly gifted (and I love hearing him scream to himself when something was off with his game), and had an exceptional net game.

I'm going to guess that you weren't a John McEnroe fan (or was it the BIC commercials that did him in?). I can certainly understand why, although I'd have to say he is one of the greatest interviews. My favorite all-time interview was when he was a guest on Charlie Rose (PBS) about 6-years ago. Brilliant stuff, doesn't hold any opinions back, but he knows what he's talking about. I know people dislike him because of his on-the-court shenanigans (which made me howl laughing), but he had the best hands (touch) of the bunch. I think that out of Jimmy Connors & McEnroe, it was McEnroe who gave Bjorn Borg a tougher time.


cont...

Martina - not all that sure. A great athlete too - but Steffi left at the top of her career - if she had continued I think she would have made Martina look rather ordinary... and besides which if you want to nominate Martina, you should nominate one of her former partners Nancy Lieberman as well And I'd add Billie Jean King and Evonne Goolagong to the list from tennis as well.


On second thought, I may rescind about what I had said about Graf. She would most likely have to be considered the greatest women's tennis player (maybe even the greatest in both), so in that sense she trumps Martina. But, it sure as hell would have been more interesting had Monica Seles NOT been stabbed, because she was pretty dominant prior to the incident. With a confident Seles out of the picture, and when your best competition for a good part of the '90s is A. Sanchez Vicario, you're bound to clean-up. Nevertheless, she was the greatest.


Sidenote: I used to get a kick out of Martina calling Graf's matches. In that hush-hush voice the use to commentate on the game, she kept going on-and-on-and-on about Graf's legs. She'd say stuff like,"She's got the most magnificent legs... beautiful... look at the tone... she has the nicest pair of legs I've ever seen..." What made that even funnier, was that the other commentator would just go silent, and all you would hear for 60 minutes (early round opponent... in-and-out job) straight was Martina going on about her legs. Classic. :thumbsup:


With hubby Agassi, I'll say this... Had Agassi had the focus that he has now (in his early years), and that he periodically has had from time-to-time (he goes on-and-off), I'm not so sure that Pete Sampras is better than him. When Agassi is on his game, he's impossible to beat (ignoring the recent domination of the game by Roger Federer). I used to hate Agassi, and think he was just some kind of pretty boy, but he's become truly great (in speaking and in representing the game).

***

cont...

Cheryl *was* my classmate at USC and one hell of an athlete and she would probably make my list - she used to beat Reggie in their backyard - yes *the* Reggie...


That must have been something! :notworthy She'd have to be considered THE greatest women's basketball player. It's unfortunate that she never did play in the WNBA. In the realm of basketball, her star may be brighter than her brothers. Over the last 20-years, if I had go find a way to win at the end of a game, I'm giving the ball to Michael Jordan. But... if it's not him, I'm giving it to Reggie. In a flash. Knick killer (you must have some mixed-feelings about that Miller family Spearmaster?). I love Reggie Miller, but they must have hated him at your school. :mad: When he was with UCLA, EVERYONE hated him (except those at UCLA of course). :icon_twis

Funny that you should mention their backyard, because they always refer to it. I keep hearing that Reggie had to learn the art of launching 3's from his mom's flowerbed. :D


Great stuff...


Steed

***
 
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Oh shit! I forgot Big Mac! :)

McEnroe is also one of the greats, no question about it - and also a great, great athlete, I'd say on a par with Becker. He never gave less than 110% on the court... can anyone ever remember watching a boring match involving McEnroe?

Agassi is one of my all-time favorite athletes, period. He and Sampras are truly class acts - except for that period when Agassi was distracted by Brooke Shields... LOL...

Steffi too is a class act - and let's not mention that she has a great pair of legs... LMFAO... just what I would have expected of Martina :) But wait until little Agassi grows up... I'm sure you've seen the commercials where he's already hitting balls... by the time he's bigger than his racket, he'll be pretty damn competitive...

Back to Steffi's competition - Monica was always great fun to watch, but still not quite on the level of Steffi. If only Jennifer Capriati had realized her potential, things might have been different - Arantxa was never any real competition except on clay (what a surprise) - but even then Steffi had to deal with Martina, who was still pretty solid, Lindsay Davenport (who I also believe never reached her full potential until she started shedding weight - too little too late), a prodigy named Martina Hingis (again, distracted by an overbearing mother and a golfer named Sergio LMAO - though Steffi had to deal with her father, much like Jelena Dokic now ignoring her father).

Speaking of which, we forgot the Williams sisters, who were simply invincible for a time, when they had to beat off each other more often than not... if we're talking athleticism, these two win hands down (and before anyone starts calling them men, they should meet Amelie Mauresmo first).

Federer is still the new kid on the block - and one hell of a player - but he has no competition! Say what you like - but until someone rises to challenge him, he'll never establish his true greatness...

Cheryl was, and may always, reign as the greatest women's basketball player ever - she was nothing short of amazing - and this was because she played against the boys when she was young - and beat their pants off too LOL.

Reggie will always have the brighter star, because he established himself in the NBA with little effort and is a sure Hall of Famer. I don't think there will ever be another Cheryl though - the women's games at USC had a FAR better turnout than the men's games because of Cheryl - and strangely enough, USC actually had a decent men's basketball team during those years...

... and yes, I hated Reggie with a passion when he was in the NBA - but we forgave him for being a Bruin because we had Cheryl and at the time she was a far bigger star :)

Cheryl was my classmate in Freshman Composition 101... and btw she is actually quite bright, especially for an athlete. I only got into that class because I was too lazy to take the waiver exam... and I skipped class way more than the mandatory fail limit, but the teacher, Mr. Holland, who I will always remember, just overlooked my horrible attendance record and sent me on to the exam... where, out of his class of 15, 3 passed the exam - Freshman Comp 101 at the time was regarded as the most difficult Freshman English class in the nation, as only 1% of 2500+ students would be exempted.

What really sucked about that was that those who passed were not told their rank - I had been the first of 2500 students out of the auditorium, followed by another 100 who didn't want to be the first to admit failure... LOL... and I knew without a doubt that I would pass out - and I would like to think I passed 1st in that class LOL but I'll never know.

As I recall, I also had Cheryl in - of all classes - Japanese 101!

The WNBA was formed FOR Cheryl Miller - without her, it would never have worked - and you're right, it's a pity she never played, but she turned out to be a pretty good coach :) The first USC basketball player (male or female) to have her jersey retired... and in 1986, named the best basketball player in the nation (male or female) by Sports Illustrated.

How in the world can anyone eclipse that?
 
johnsteed said:
***




Those are the two who're at the top of my list of receivers and quarterbacks. I'm not actually from the Bay Area, but I happen to like their teams. I remember seeing Montana at the end of his career with Kansas City, and there was this Monday Night Football game against Denver in '94. The Chiefs made a wonderful comeback, and won the game with 8 seconds left to beat the Broncos (who were a GREAT team at that time). I've seen quite a few NFL games, and that ranks RIGHT at the top of them. ***


I was very lucky and lived in the Bay Area from 1984 to 2002 -- just in time for Joe Montana/Dwight Clark "THE CATCH". While Montana enjoyed many more years of glory, Clark seemed to flow by the wayside (sorry Dwight!). Needless to say, Rice caught up the slack in a most amazing way and I was sad sad sad the day Joe left the team and even more surprised that Rice soon followed. Bad day for SF IMHO.
 
Both players have suffered from too many injuries that hurt there careers. With Orr, it was the knees, and he was done, when most players are at their peak. Orr had jets, a booming shot, smarts on par with Gretzky and Lemieux, a winning attitude, grace (but he was tough), and not mentioned enough, was that he was exceptionally gifted defensively.

Ahhh, JS, now I know you are a true Canuck. And we definitely agree!! Bobby Orr, Bobby Orr, Bobby Orr, they don't make em like that anymore.

I gotta get in on this thread, I'm a sports freak, well...used to be til I had a baby five years ago, lol.

How about great racehorses? Don't know how you guys feel, but I consider them athletes as well. And what about the jockeys? Pound for pound, some of the most well-conditioned athletes of all, IMO. Anyone who has ever galloped a thoroughbred can attest to that.

Horses, in no particular order - Affirmed (last Triple Crown winner in 1978), Secretariat, Northern Dancer (Canadian :) ), Cigar (truly amazing specimen, he won 16 consecutive races, different distances, different tracks, different surfaces). He even won the race in Dubai and came back home to race again...most horses who race over there finish their careers there. Actually, my list could be endless, but I'll start with that.

Jockeys - Angel Cordero, Pat Day, Jerry Bailey, Shane Sellers (if you knew what this guy has gone through, you'd be amazed he's still walking), Sandy Hawley (another Canuck) and Julie Krone (before she had her 2nd bad accident and started riding scared). Again, I have an endless list of modern day nominees, but this is a beginning.

I'll have to really ponder this thread and come back with another post. This was just off the top of my head.
 

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