North Korea and US politics

[slotplayer]

My gut feeling (again) tells me that he is being allowed to pull off these economically beneficial measures, firstly to keep the public happy, but more importantly, to build a momentum and a 'feel good factor', much as Hitler did for the Germans back in the 1930s, in order to get the US ready for the final lunge at creating the One World Order; Syria and Iran remain independent.

After which the US shall probably be on her knees, and the baton will be passed to China to police the world. This is more or less what happened to Great Britain after WWII, when they handed the baton to the US.

I'm not just taking wild stabs in the dark here. It is apparently 'the plan'.

The plan is Vlad, Donald and Kim teaming up - that's the plot for world domination. Get the bunker ready.

They had an assault rifle ban in 1994, it expired in 2004, Bush/congress did not renew it nor did Obama when he had veto proof control of congress in 2010.

 

[ed skull murphy]

The plan is Vlad, Donald and Kim teaming up - that's the plot for world domination. Get the bunker ready.

Vlad's a very clever bloke, I have a lot of respect for Vlad, but I think he is playing a false game. He is pretty thick with the Israelis. The other two are a pair of jokers, very entertaining though.

 

[mack341]

Actually, the secret space programme is very real, but it is not there for the benefit of the plebs, unfortunately.

Whether they have managed to cross the Van Allen radiation belt is doubtful. I know that Neil Armstrong never did, the moon landings were filmed in London by Stanley Kubrick, on his set for 2001, A Space Odyssey.

watched the film capricorn one earlier this week, good movie, hal holbrook is brilliant in it. When you start to read up about the moon landings it does seem we may have been misled:

 

[mack341]

Vlad's a very clever bloke, I have a lot of respect for Vlad, but I think he is playing a false game. He is pretty thick with the Israelis. The other two are a pair of jokers, very entertaining though.

Trump has given more chuckles than many other leaders even if some of its been unintentional like in that clip where he says 'she would like to go to mars very quickly' he is not a boring leader but a showman although I do understand why some people loathe him even if a lot of the criticism is whipped up by the hysterical press coverage.

Vlad and russian elite/military always try to buy themselves time as they did in ww2, I think the intervention in syria must have caught the west out and caused a major upset to their plan of regime change, russia hasn't flexed its muscle abroad for decades and never directly in the middle east, Israel would definitely not have welcomed the russian military saving assad and the syrian govt.

Ultimately putin will talk and try to get on with everybody, he's patched up relations with erdogan even after the russian jet was shot down by turkey, he meets the saudis etc.. Vlad is happy as long as russia maintains its influence and status in world matters and not walked over and ignored like it was in yeltsin's time.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Trump has given more chuckles than many other leaders even if some of its been unintentional like in that clip where he says 'she would like to go to mars very quickly' he is not a boring leader but I do understand why some people loathe him even if a lot of the criticism is whipped up by the hysterical press coverage.

Vlad and russian elite/military always try to buy themselves time as they did in ww2, I think the intervention in syria must have caught the west out and caused a major upset to their plan of regime change, russia hasn't flexed its muscle abroad for decades and never directly in the middle east, Israel would definitely not have welcomed the russian military saving assad and the syrian govt.

Ultimately putin will talk and try to get on with everybody, he's patched up relations with erdogan even after the russian jet was shot down by turkey, he meets the saudis etc.. Vlad is happy as long as russia maintains its influence and status in world matters and not walked over and ignored like it was in yeltsin's time.

You make some very good points there, Mack, can't say I disagree with any of that... but, don't forget that MO of Freemasonry is always to use 'duality' to bring about change, the black and white chequered floor of Freemasonic halls is representative of that.

You always need two opposing sides, to create a 'market', but they are both ultimately controlled by the same puppetmaster. I believe that Putin's mother was of the Jewish faith.

 

[mack341]

You make some very good points there, Mack, can't say I disagree with any of that... but, don't forget that MO of Freemasonry is always to use 'duality' to bring about change, the black and white chequered floor of Freemasonic halls is representative of that.

You always need two opposing sides, to create a 'market', but they are both ultimately controlled by the same puppetmaster. I believe that Putin's mother was of the Jewish faith.

Maybe... the freemasonry role in world matters is definitely under researched, why are they so secretive if they've nothing to hide? It is very sinister that no freemasons ever break rank.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Maybe... the freemasonry role in world matters is definitely under researched, why are they so secretive if they've nothing to hide? It is very sinister that no freemasons ever break rank.

They are the administrators of this whole thing.

They have plenty to hide.

 

[mack341]

They are the administrators of this whole thing.

They have plenty to hide.

I think you might have misunderstood the masons, there just totally normal people who like doing things for charity:

 

[ed skull murphy]

I think you might have misunderstood the masons, there just totally normal people who like doing things for charity:

The lower degrees are fairly normal, the blue lodge, but they provide a respectable cover for the more nefarious actions of the higher degrees, for example, Tony Blair, George Soros, Henry Kissinger.

I believe that the organisation was fairly benign in it's earlier days, but has for a long time been infiltrated and co-opted by malignant forces.

 

[mack341]

Going back to Trump, I'd forgotten about his tearing up of the Iran nuclear deal, which I think was stupid and short sighted and makes the prospect of a new major conflict in the middle east more likely. It could be he is trying the same tactic he has used with North korea, but as many have pointed out that hasn't really achieved much yet other than a symbolic meeting.

Also on the fracking he has made short sighted decisions which will harm the environment, saying " Fracking will lead to American energy independence. With price of natural gas continuing to drop, we can be at a tremendous advantage." Advantage for what, the US Govt is pissing money up the wall every day, he probably means the fracking industry can make a tremendous profit.

So for me the verdict is still out on Trump, I give him credit for not being another grey politician afraid to voice his opinion but I'm not sure his judgement on all issues is sound.

 

[slotplayer]

Going back to Trump, I'd forgotten about his tearing up of the Iran nuclear deal, which I think was stupid and short sighted and makes the prospect of a new major conflict in the middle east more likely. It could be he is trying the same tactic he has used with North korea, but as many have pointed out that hasn't really achieved much yet other than a symbolic meeting.

Also on the fracking he has made short sighted decisions which will harm the environment, saying " Fracking will lead to American energy independence. With price of natural gas continuing to drop, we can be at a tremendous advantage." Advantage for what, the US Govt is pissing money up the wall every day, he probably means the fracking industry can make a tremendous profit.

So for me the verdict is still out on Trump, I give him credit for not being another grey politician afraid to voice his opinion but I'm not sure his judgement on all issues is sound.

I think he's talking about this Forbes article.

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[ed skull murphy]

I think he's talking about this Forbes article.

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It's all a big con, there is plenty of oil underneath the USA. I think the drive for fracking is mainly intended to move rural dwellers off of the land and into the urban agglomerations, soon to be known as mega-cities, by poisoning their way of life.

 

[ed skull murphy]

'Dark Side Of The Moon', Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Haig et al. admitting that the moon landings were filmed in a studio.

But then they say that it was because they didn't have the technology to transmit moving pictures back from the moon. Yeah, right!

 

[Steviedoo]

'Dark Side Of The Moon', Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Haig et al. admitting that the moon landings were filmed in a studio.

But then they say that it was because they didn't have the technology to transmit moving pictures back from the moon. Yeah, right!

Where in this very carefully edited video with curated excerpts do they say the moon landings were filmed in a studio?

And the video makes it seem like they are all in one room for an interview. Where is what they call in the film industry the establishing shot? The shot where you show everyone who is in the room. And from there you cut to the individual shots Of the people in the room. There is none because they are not all in one room. And Kissinger, Rumsfeld, hang et al...have been edited carefully to make it seem they are talking about this.

 

[ed skull murphy]

This is just a segment of the full documentary, which is available to rent on Amazon, I did watch the full thing before, but it has since been removed from YT, for copyright breach, which is fair enough.

What I got out of it was that this was an attempt at sussing the growing rumour that the moon landing was a hoax. The people interviewed, with one or two exceptions, come across as a bit fake, as if they were following a script, rather than recounting their actual memories.

 

[slotplayer]

It's all a big con, there is plenty of oil underneath the USA. I think the drive for fracking is mainly intended to move rural dwellers off of the land and into the urban agglomerations, soon to be known as mega-cities, by poisoning their way of life.

you could just buy the rural dwellers out or use eminent domain.

 

[ed skull murphy]

you could just buy the rural dwellers out or use eminent domain.

It wasn't my idea, these people are psychos, they don't care about any of us. It's how they operate... have always operated.

It's from United Nations Agenda 21, basically a land clearance to get everyone off of the land and living on top of each other, where they can monitor our every move, a bit like "1984"

 

[slotplayer]

It wasn't my idea, these people are psychos, they don't care about any of us. It's how they operate... have always operated.

It's from United Nations Agenda 21, basically a land clearance to get everyone off of the land and living on top of each other, where they can monitor our every move, a bit like "1984"

I didn't know it was a real thing. I think they're succeeding.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Back to the original title of this thread:

Bolton today: "We have developed a program. I’m sure that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will be discussing this with the North Koreans in the near future about really how to dismantle all of their WMD and ballistic missile programs in a year”.

Quote from Siegfried Hecker, a nuclear scientist and Stanford University professor, who visited the heart of North Korea’s nuclear program in Yongbyon in 2010. He predicted it would take around 10 years to dismantle and clean up a substantial part of that site.

And that is just one site! I mean, on what planet or what fantasy world are Mr. T and his team living?

 

[ed skull murphy]

I didn't know it was a real thing. I think they're succeeding.

I wish it wasn't. The only reason I keep banging on about this stuff, is because the only way to stop it is by making people aware of what is going on behind their backs, pretty much everything is part of a huge con-trick.

These megacities are essentially 21st century gulags, loosely speaking. The thick fog of microwave radiation from the cell-phone towers, the wi-fi, the smart meters etc, will make longevity a thing of the past.

I'll leave folk to do any further research themselves, rather than derail this thread any further.

 

[slotplayer]

I wish it wasn't. The only reason I keep banging on about this stuff, is because the only way to stop it is by making people aware of what is going on behind their backs, pretty much everything is part of a huge con-trick.

These megacities are essentially 21st century gulags, loosely speaking. The thick fog of microwave radiation from the cell-phone towers, the wi-fi, the smart meters etc, will make longevity a thing of the past.

I'll leave folk to do any further research themselves, rather than derail this thread any further.

They're already trying to age us faster via the weather, the water and things like ciggs.

 

[mack341]

Back to the original title of this thread:

Bolton today: "We have developed a program. I’m sure that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will be discussing this with the North Koreans in the near future about really how to dismantle all of their WMD and ballistic missile programs in a year”.

Quote from Siegfried Hecker, a nuclear scientist and Stanford University professor, who visited the heart of North Korea’s nuclear program in Yongbyon in 2010. He predicted it would take around 10 years to dismantle and clean up a substantial part of that site.

And that is just one site! I mean, on what planet or what fantasy world are Mr. T and his team living?

I don't think bolton and pompeo get on, sounds like he knows pompeo hasn't got a chance of getting the north koreans to dismantle all their weapons. Not sure why he doesn't say 'nuclear weapons' as I thought that was the core issue, why are ballistic missiles now in the mix I wonder?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I don't think bolton and pompeo get on, sounds like he knows pompeo hasn't got a chance of getting the north koreans to dismantle all their weapons. Not sure why he doesn't say 'nuclear weapons' as I thought that was the core issue, why are ballistic missiles now in the mix I wonder?

If any at all. What I see happening now is an exact replica of what happened in the past. The North Koreans playing along to get relief, be seen as a cooperating (so they can play the victim card later) etc.

China within hours after the photo-OP in SIN ran to the UN to ask for sanctions relief. And they started doing it without even waiting for a decision from the UN because they know the US can't speak against it since NK agreed to "work towards denuclearisation of the KP". Emphasis on KP, not just NK. Very smart how they slid that into the text of the declaration. Because now they have leverage to say that they won't do much until the US starts retracting the nuclear shield from South Korea.

So funny how the people around Mr. T are always running around to explain his bragging statements, e.g.:

Mr. T straight after the photo-OP: "NK is no longer a nuclear threat, you can sleep calm tonight!" A few days later: "They started the denuclearisation already."
Pompeo a few days ago: "The president meant that the nuclear threat has reduced."

Eerm, no. .....Fact is that both statements are complete fantasies, if not outright lies. NK hasn't done anything so far except ramping up the trade with China. In contrary, Kim got world-recognition by meeting Mr. T who traveled a lot further than Kim to meet him (for Asians that is an important visual) and the US suspended the military exercises.

The mid- and long-range ballistic missiles can reach Japan/Guam/South Korea and the US mainland, hence, why the US wants to see them gone too. Similar to the drumbeat with Iran. However, the UN charter states that every country has the right to build its own defense, so it won't be that clear-cut that NK will let go of those.

 

[mack341]

If any at all. What I see happening now is an exact replica of what happened in the past. The North Koreans playing along to get relief, be seen as a cooperating (so they can play the victim card later) etc.

China within hours after the photo-OP in SIN ran to the UN to ask for sanctions relief. And they started doing it without even waiting for a decision from the UN because they know the US can't speak against it since NK agreed to "work towards denuclearisation of the KP". Emphasis on KP, not just NK. Very smart how they slid that into the text of the declaration. Because now they have leverage to say that they won't do much until the US starts retracting the nuclear shield from South Korea.

So funny how the people around Mr. T are always running around to explain his bragging statements, e.g.:

Mr. T straight after the photo-OP: "NK is no longer a nuclear threat, you can sleep calm tonight!" A few days later: "They started the denuclearisation already."
Pompeo a few days ago: "The president meant that the nuclear threat has reduced."

Eerm, no. .....Fact is that both statements are complete fantasies, if not outright lies. NK hasn't done anything so far except ramping up the trade with China. In contrary, Kim got world-recognition by meeting Mr. T who traveled a lot further than Kim to meet him (for Asians that is an important visual) and the US suspended the military exercises.

The mid- and long-range ballistic missiles can reach Japan/Guam/South Korea and the US mainland, hence, why the US wants to see them gone too. Similar to the drumbeat with Iran. However, the UN charter states that every country has the right to build its own defense, so it won't be that clear-cut that NK will let go of those.

I think maybe the US will let NK keep their current stockpile of missiles but must not carry out any more research and development to improve upon them. I can't see NK destroying all their defensive deterrents unless the US leave the korean peninsula, and that is very unlikely ever, unless somehow the South koreans force them to go.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I think maybe the US will let NK keep their current stockpile of missiles but must not carry out any more research and development to improve upon them. I can't see NK destroying all their defensive deterrents unless the US leave the korean peninsula, and that is very unlikely ever, unless somehow the South koreans force them to go.

Nah, that would be then a worse than the deal with Iran he ripped apart just a few weeks ago. Not something Mr. T would agree to, after all he wants to be better than Obama at everything. .... But he probably will agree to something because, remember, that Nobel Peace Prize has to get somehow into his hands. All the other stuff is just peripheral for Mr. T because without the Nobel prize he is not outdoing Obama. IMO, opening a T hotel and golf course in NK would have higher priority than complete denuclearisation.

The big problem is that nobody really knows what exactly NK has and on top, how many hidden sites they have scattered around the country. Until today, they never reported all sites in any of the previous agreements. You have then Mr. T's praise choir (Bolton, Pompeo et al) shouting out loud on all channels: "Mr. T is is different and better than previous presidents and he won't fall for the tricks". Yeah, sure!

Keeping the troops in SK has two reasons. One, the US has a foot on the continent right in front of China, two, SK is paying around 50% of the cost for the troops, hence, it is much cheaper for the US to keep them there.

One day, NK just might destroy all their nukes but i highly doubt it will be in my lifetime.

 

[slotplayer]

Its too early boys.

 

[mack341]

Nah, that would be then a worse than the deal with Iran he ripped apart just a few weeks ago. Not something Mr. T would agree to, after all he wants to be better than Obama at everything. .... But he probably will agree to something because, remember, that Nobel Peace Prize has to get somehow into his hands. All the other stuff is just peripheral for Mr. T because without the Nobel prize he is not outdoing Obama. IMO, opening a T hotel and golf course in NK would have higher priority than complete denuclearisation.

The big problem is that nobody really knows what exactly NK has and on top, how many hidden sites they have scattered around the country. Until today, they never reported all sites in any of the previous agreements. You have then Mr. T's praise choir (Bolton, Pompeo et al) shouting out loud on all channels: "Mr. T is is different and better than previous presidents and he won't fall for the tricks". Yeah, sure!

Keeping the troops in SK has two reasons. One, the US has a foot on the continent right in front of China, two, SK is paying around 50% of the cost for the troops, hence, it is much cheaper for the US to keep them there.

One day, NK just might destroy all their nukes but i highly doubt it will be in my lifetime.

I wonder where we'll be in a year's time, will the media still be asking pompeo et al about the progress or lack of regarding NK or will it just all be put to oneside and forgotten? And what is going to happen regarding Iran and the nuclear deal, now the US sanctions are reimposed will the EU follow the washington line and renege on the agreement?

 

[slotplayer]

I have CNN on, God help me.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I have CNN on, God help me.

It's no different than Fox on the other side.

 

[slotplayer]

It's no different than Fox on the other side.

What I noticed from watching both over the years is Fox is not afraid to report an unfavorable story when its someone they support, sometimes CNN is afraid to cover it when its someone they support.

CNN also beats a story to endless death. CNN is good at covering big stories because of their large global network.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I watched neither extensively but my impression was that both sides have good reporting and both have hyperbole.

You can't call judge "whatever her name is", Hannity, Tucker, Inhagram journalists when they call for a purge in the FBI, Hillary to jail, Comey is a leaker, investigate the crooked Obama administration, etc. etc. etc. .....all with no proof of crimes being committed, none, not a shred.

And the constant fawning at Mr. T is just disgusting, IMO. E.g. Fox and Friends --> it just can't get any more hilarious.

Journalistic work / reporting at Fox seems to come only from a few select hosts, e.g. Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace. The rest is with their heads up Mr. T's *ss.

CNN on the other side tramples most subjects/events to death to fill the 24hrs of a day. But I have not heard anyone screaming: Throw Mr. T into jail, Purge the EPA, etc......

 

[slotplayer]

Hannity, Pirrio, Inhagram are "opinion journalist". We know they're "T" supporters upfront.

I'm pretty sure Comey admitted he passed on his memos to his professor buddy and told him to leak them to the press. That did not happen?

I'll stick with watching the Fox people, I find them less hysterical.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Hannity, Pirrio, Inhagram are "opinion journalist". We know they're "T" supporters upfront.

I'm pretty sure Comey admitted he passed on his memos to his professor buddy and told him to leak them to the press. That did not happen?

I'll stick with watching the Fox people, I find them less hysterical.

I am pretty sure I managed to watch overall an entire day of Fox News, not in one shot but in bits and pieces. My impression is that some 90% are fawning at Mr. T like teenagers at their first love and are even more hysterical than CNN.

Fact is that the only news channel calling constantly for people to be locked up, purged, etc without any proof of a crime whatsoever is Fox.

Plus, the only channel I have watched in the past four weeks praising to the moon and back the "show agreement" between Mr. T and Kim is Fox News. Absolutely hilarious. Everyone else sees it as what it is in reality, a tiny chance that something might happen on the KP.

Last but not least, the only channel playing down the family separation issue, comparing the detention centers to "summer camps" etc is again Fox News.

Overall, a shambolic attempt to turn everything Mr. T related into something positive.

As for Comey, he passed on non-classified memos, so it is not a leak. So far neither the DOJ nor the FBI indicted him or found him guilty, I think he is not even under investigation about it, hence, there was no wrongdoing, nothing illegal and no leaking....but Fox and Mr. T plus his "praising boys choir" are riding on it day in, day out. Should he be prosecuted and sentenced then yes, you can call him a leaker. Until then --> Innocent until proven guilty, isn't it?

 

[slotplayer]

I am pretty sure I managed to watch overall an entire day of Fox News, not in one shot but in bits and pieces. My impression is that some 90% are fawning at Mr. T like teenagers at their first love and are even more hysterical than CNN.

Fact is that the only news channel calling constantly for people to be locked up, purged, etc without any proof of a crime whatsoever is Fox.

Plus, the only channel I have watched in the past four weeks praising to the moon and back the "show agreement" between Mr. T and Kim is Fox News. Absolutely hilarious. Everyone else sees it as what it is in reality, a tiny chance that something might happen on the KP.

Last but not least, the only channel playing down the family separation issue, comparing the detention centers to "summer camps" etc is again Fox News.

Overall, a shambolic attempt to turn everything Mr. T related into something positive.

As for Comey, he passed on non-classified memos, so it is not a leak. So far neither the DOJ nor the FBI indicted him or found him guilty, I think he is not even under investigation about it, hence, there was no wrongdoing, nothing illegal and no leaking....but Fox and Mr. T plus his "praising boys choir" are riding on it day in, day out. Should he be prosecuted and sentenced then yes, you can call him a leaker. Until then --> Innocent until proven guilty, isn't it?

Fox is a conservative new channel, they back the Republican agenda of small government, lower taxes, etc.., nothing wrong with that. CNN backs the Democratic agenda, now hijacked by the far left, you know the people that want to get rid of ICE, wants a 'nanny state' with higher taxes and open borders. That's the civil war Sherwood posted about.

No doubt separating the kids was a major f-up but aren't the kids in same detention centers Obama used?

The picture you posted and the one used on CNN/Time mag cover was not even of a child being separated. Before that some other tool posted pics of kids in the fenced centers, but the pics were from 2014. Its all in an effort to take "T" down.

This was totally glossed over by the left wing media.

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[Harry_BKK]

Fox is a conservative new channel, they back the Republican agenda of small government, lower taxes, etc.., nothing wrong with that. CNN backs the Democratic agenda, now hijacked by the far left, you know the people that want to get rid of ICE, wants a 'nanny state' with higher taxes and open borders. That's the civil war Sherwood posted about.

No doubt separating the kids was a major f-up but aren't the kids in same detention centers Obama used?

The picture you posted and the one used on CNN/Time mag cover was not even of a child being separated. Before that some other tool posted pics of kids in the fenced centers, but the pics were from 2014. Its all in an effort to take "T" down.

This was totally glossed over by the left wing media.

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I am speechless after reading your post. It is full of misleading statements, leading me yet again to ask you whether you do it deliberately or are just badly informed.

Please show one quote from a democrat (senator, member of congress, governor etc) that says only "abolish ICE" and not "abolish ICE and replace it with something else". Even ICE officials are asking to have it abolished/re-organized. Further show me one quote where a democrat says "we want open borders" or "higher taxes". I have not read or found any of those quotes. These are all items Mr. T has been repeating again and again until his base actually believes it.

Separating the kids was not a major f-up as you put it, it was carefully and heinously planned to the last detail, that is what actually makes it so shameful for a country like the US:

- Mr. T's administration tested the policy in a pilot last year
- To show pictures of teen boys only was specifically planned so it could be argued that they will be the next MS13 member. Has more impact on the people's opinion
- They made no plan whatsoever to reunite the kids with the parents
- Contacting the child is purposely made difficult and complex
- It was just as carefully planned to spread the kids all over the country as far as possible away from the parent (according to DHS they separated just over 2,000 kids along the 2,000+ mile border, they can't house that relatively small number close to their parents? Amazing, isn't it! )
- CBP agents are standing right at the border line to Mexico and turning people away at points of entry, driving them into the hands of "coyotes" and leaving them little choice but to try to cross in between
- list not complete

All of the above points to an exact plan and not a coincidental f-up. Of course Mr. T was trying to blame the Democrats for the mess, for something he personally signed.

According to Mr. T, he is the deporter-in-chief, he does the job so much better than Obama. But yes, Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other president before him, which is of course according to the law, nobody questions that. However, seeing that it was not the best way to use the resources, he changed the policy in 2014 and focused on those who committed crimes etc. Plus he gave immigration courts and ICE latitude to make the decision whether to deport based on whether the immigrant was in the country for a long time, they had family, contributed to the community etc.

Mr. T on the other hand signed an EO just days after his inauguration where they abolished that policy and now everyone will be arrested and deported.

Hence, not really comparable between Obama and Mr. T.

 

[slotplayer]

I am speechless after reading your post. It is full of misleading statements, leading me yet again to ask you whether you do it deliberately or are just badly informed.

Please show one quote from a democrat (senator, member of congress, governor etc) that says only "abolish ICE" and not "abolish ICE and replace it with something else". Even ICE officials are asking to have it abolished/re-organized. Further show me one quote where a democrat says "we want open borders" or "higher taxes". I have not read or found any of those quotes. These are all items Mr. T has been repeating again and again until his base actually believes it.

Separating the kids was not a major f-up as you put it, it was carefully and heinously planned to the last detail, that is what actually makes it so shameful for a country like the US:

- Mr. T's administration tested the policy in a pilot last year
- To show pictures of teen boys only was specifically planned so it could be argued that they will be the next MS13 member. Has more impact on the people's opinion
- They made no plan whatsoever to reunite the kids with the parents
- Contacting the child is purposely made difficult and complex
- It was just as carefully planned to spread the kids all over the country as far as possible away from the parent (according to DHS they separated just over 2,000 kids along the 2,000+ mile border, they can't house that relatively small number close to their parents? Amazing, isn't it! )
- CBP agents are standing right at the border line to Mexico and turning people away at points of entry, driving them into the hands of "coyotes" and leaving them little choice but to try to cross in between
- list not complete

All of the above points to an exact plan and not a coincidental f-up. Of course Mr. T was trying to blame the Democrats for the mess, for something he personally signed.

According to Mr. T, he is the deporter-in-chief, he does the job so much better than Obama. But yes, Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other president before him, which is of course according to the law, nobody questions that. However, seeing that it was not the best way to use the resources, he changed the policy in 2014 and focused on those who committed crimes etc. Plus he gave immigration courts and ICE latitude to make the decision whether to deport based on whether the immigrant was in the country for a long time, they had family, contributed to the community etc.

Mr. T on the other hand signed an EO just days after his inauguration where they abolished that policy and now everyone will be arrested and deported.

Hence, not really comparable between Obama and Mr. T.

See how you give Obama a pass, but are outraged over everything "T" does and says. I'm not like that, I let "T" be "T" and Obama be Obama.

Trump ran on being really tough on immigration. It's no mystery. Like it or not that's one of the reasons why he was elected.

I know the whole story. I knew about the pilot program. I know about one division of ICE not wanting to take the heat for the other. I have it on all day long here and watch all the various stations and listen to both sides but tbh its too damn hot here to get in to another debate with you.

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[Steviedoo]

Between Fox News...and Donald trump. The liberals are fighting a campaign of misinformation.

Liberals do not want open borders.
Nor do they want to take your guns.
Nor do they want to abolish ice.
Nor do they want higher taxes.

These are lies that are being repeated by mr trump and Fox News.

 

[slotplayer]

Between Fox News...and Donald trump. The liberals are fighting a campaign of misinformation.

Liberals do not want open borders.
Nor do they want to take your guns.
Nor do they want to abolish ice.
Nor do they want higher taxes.

These are lies that are being repeated by mr trump and Fox News.

stevie, its too hot to get into it but here are two

really

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Seattle did not try an implement a head tax on businesses, only to rescind it after.

 

[Harry_BKK]

See how you give Obama a pass, but are outraged over everything "T" does and says. I'm not like that, I let "T" be "T" and Obama be Obama. Trump ran on being really tough on immigration. It's no mystery. Like it or not that's one of the reasons why he was elected. I know the whole story. I knew about the pilot program. I know about one division of ICE not wanting to take the heat for the other. I have it on all day long here and watch all the various stations and listen to both sides but tbh its too damn hot here to get in to another debate with you.

You are right, it is none of my business on how you run your country. I can only express my opinion about what I see or e.g. my disgust regarding the shameful child separation.

And no, I do not give Obama a pass. I criticized him at the time just as well, albeit not in this forum (only joined CM late 2015). The reason for those pictures from 2014 was a sudden surge in unaccompanied minors, you don't have that today, at least not of the magnitude as back then. Plus, he was not separating toddlers from their mothers instead they applied the "catch&release" policy.

What Mr. T is doing has a totally different dimension, with his "zero-tolerance" policy he is knowingly and intently damaging small kids, the weakest in our society. Only after massive protests did he halt the policy (he did not abolish it) and plans now to indefinitely incarcerate the kids, even toddlers, with the parents (his DOJ is trying to get Flores overturned). Show me one country which does that and a major part of that country actually being proud of it!

As for your link "Democrats Embrace....", please do a quick search and you will find that quite a few Californian Republicans (state senators, mayors and other officials) supported / embraced the tax increase as well. They just didn't show their support publicly.

And you have seen where the typical Republican tax cuts a la Mr. T's liking are leading to:

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Nobody likes to pay taxes nor tax increases but at the end of the day that is how our governmental system has been set-up since the Romans and even before that. The major issue with Republican tax cuts is that they have repeatedly favored the upper classes and that does not apply only to the US. The "everyday-normal-Joe" hardly ever sees any benefits from them.

With an aging society, increased demands for modern infrastructure (roads, communications etc), higher costs for virtually every part of government but especially for social programs (health care, pensions etc) and other stuff, increasing taxes over time is just about the only option for a country to cover those raising costs unless you want to increase your debts up to the point where you can't borrow more money.

Give it one or two years, and you will see the result of Mr. T's tax cut. He and his administration are still dreaming and insisting that it will not just pay for itself but also eliminate part of the deficit when everyone else is saying exactly the opposite. Your kids and grandkids will be "thanking Mr. T" for the mess as they will have to pay for it one way or another.

 

[slotplayer]

You are right, it is none of my business on how you run your country. I can only express my opinion about what I see or e.g. my disgust regarding the shameful child separation.

And no, I do not give Obama a pass. I criticized him at the time just as well, albeit not in this forum (only joined CM late 2015). The reason for those pictures from 2014 was a sudden surge in unaccompanied minors, you don't have that today, at least not of the magnitude as back then. Plus, he was not separating toddlers from their mothers instead they applied the "catch&release" policy.

What Mr. T is doing has a totally different dimension, with his "zero-tolerance" policy he is knowingly and intently damaging small kids, the weakest in our society. Only after massive protests did he halt the policy (he did not abolish it) and plans now to indefinitely incarcerate the kids, even toddlers, with the parents (his DOJ is trying to get Flores overturned). Show me one country which does that and a major part of that country actually being proud of it!

As for your link "Democrats Embrace....", please do a quick search and you will find that quite a few Californian Republicans (state senators, mayors and other officials) supported / embraced the tax increase as well. They just didn't show their support publicly.

And you have seen where the typical Republican tax cuts a la Mr. T's liking are leading to:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Nobody likes to pay taxes nor tax increases but at the end of the day that is how our governmental system has been set-up since the Romans and even before that. The major issue with Republican tax cuts is that they have repeatedly favored the upper classes and that does not apply only to the US. The "everyday-normal-Joe" hardly ever sees any benefits from them.

With an aging society, increased demands for modern infrastructure (roads, communications etc), higher costs for virtually every part of government but especially for social programs (health care, pensions etc) and other stuff, increasing taxes over time is just about the only option for a country to cover those raising costs unless you want to increase your debts up to the point where you can't borrow more money.

Give it one or two years, and you will see the result of Mr. T's tax cut. He and his administration are still dreaming and insisting that it will not just pay for itself but also eliminate part of the deficit when everyone else is saying exactly the opposite. Your kids and grandkids will be "thanking Mr. T" for the mess as they will have to pay for it one way or another.

The picture:

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The catch and release policy was the problem, afaik most did not show up for their hearing.
I know liberals think their helping people by encouraging illegal immigration but the truth is they end up with limited opportunity due to their undeclared status.

Or you can lower taxes to incentivize businesses to expand and grow & increase the tax base & get revenue that way.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher

Am I misreading this article:
Sen. Anthony Cannella of Ceres, whose district covers Merced and San Benito counties, was the only member of the GOP to cast a 'yes' vote for the 12 cent increase in the state's gas tax, the first increase in 23 years, plus a 20 cent increase in diesel.

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Gov. Brown says the plan will cost the average California driver about $10 a month. Half of the revenue raised will go toward fixing state highways and transportation projects, while the other half will go toward repairs to local projects. The state Assembly approved the bill on 54-26, with no Republican support.

interesting read here

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I could go on but its late and humid.

 

[mack341]

I think mexico should be coming in for the most criticism, why do the people want to leave in the first place? If I was a liberal in the US I would want to get to the root causes, putting in place sticking plaster policies is pointless.

What is blocking reform of central and south america so the corruption and drugs crime can irradicated? There seems to be a lack of will to sort these things out, is it that the UN should be doing more, or maybe the CIA etc is deliberatly undermining the countries so they can control them via the corrupt politicians. It reminds me of africa, where the corrupt leaders are helped to stay in power by the west, so we can sell them weapons and in return get our hands on their natural resources.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The picture:

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The catch and release policy was the problem, afaik most did not show up for their hearing.
I know liberals think their helping people by encouraging illegal immigration but the truth is they end up with limited opportunity due to their undeclared status.

Or you can lower taxes to incentivize businesses to expand and grow & increase the tax base & get revenue that way.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher

Am I misreading this article:
Sen. Anthony Cannella of Ceres, whose district covers Merced and San Benito counties, was the only member of the GOP to cast a 'yes' vote for the 12 cent increase in the state's gas tax, the first increase in 23 years, plus a 20 cent increase in diesel.

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Gov. Brown says the plan will cost the average California driver about $10 a month. Half of the revenue raised will go toward fixing state highways and transportation projects, while the other half will go toward repairs to local projects. The state Assembly approved the bill on 54-26, with no Republican support.

interesting read here

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I could go on but its late and humid.

Catch & Release

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Tax Cuts
Quote: "Or you can lower taxes to incentivize businesses to expand and grow & increase the tax base & get revenue that way."

You do know that exactly that has been tried in the past and failed, not just in the US. Do you think there is now less greed and companies are turning into welfare organizations just because it is Mr. T's tax cut? No, they will still fight tooth and nail to get their tax burden as much as possible towards "zero" while letting their employees have a few crumbs which will see the US deficit increasing every year. I'll kowtow to Mr. T if by 2020 the US total deficit has decreased even by just one single dollar.

Gas Tax
Search a bit more about the tax gas and you'll find that the GOP started being against the tax increase to have a political agenda for the 2018 elections, it is their major focus. If you look at the early deliberations and discussions about increasing the gas tax, you'll see that they do know exactly that more money is needed for infrastructure but as always are not talking, let alone offering an alternative (ACA is a good example, where is the beautiful health care that was supposed to be so much cheaper and better?). Well, none that I have read about.

 

[slotplayer]

Catch & Release

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Tax Cuts
Quote: "Or you can lower taxes to incentivize businesses to expand and grow & increase the tax base & get revenue that way."

You do know that exactly that has been tried in the past and failed, not just in the US. Do you think there is now less greed and companies are turning into welfare organizations just because it is Mr. T's tax cut? No, they will still fight tooth and nail to get their tax burden as much as possible towards "zero" while letting their employees have a few crumbs which will see the US deficit increasing every year. I'll kowtow to Mr. T if by 2020 the US total deficit has decreased even by just one single dollar.

Gas Tax
Search a bit more about the tax gas and you'll find that the GOP started being against the tax increase to have a political agenda for the 2018 elections, it is their major focus. If you look at the early deliberations and discussions about increasing the gas tax, you'll see that they do know exactly that more money is needed for infrastructure but as always are not talking, let alone offering an alternative (ACA is a good example, where is the beautiful health care that was supposed to be so much cheaper and better?). Well, none that I have read about.

I don't have time (or desire), but didn't this all get discussed in the "Trump" thread. Why rehash it all again?

However, I think there are some association style healthcare plans small businesses and sole proprietors (like pizza shop owners, variety stores, etc.) will be able to join to lower health insurance premiums.

 

[slotplayer]

I think mexico should be coming in for the most criticism, why do the people want to leave in the first place? If I was a liberal in the US I would want to get to the root causes, putting in place sticking plaster policies is pointless.

What is blocking reform of central and south america so the corruption and drugs crime can irradicated? There seems to be a lack of will to sort these things out, is it that the UN should be doing more, or maybe the CIA etc is deliberatly undermining the countries so they can control them via the corrupt politicians. It reminds me of africa, where the corrupt leaders are helped to stay in power by the west, so we can sell them weapons and in return get our hands on their natural resources.

Its all a big sellout, Libs want them cuz the offspring born in the US will vote for them. The Repubs like the cheap labor.

Mexico likes the remittances.

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[mack341]

Its all a big sellout, Libs want them cuz the offspring born in the US will vote for them. The Repubs like the cheap labor.

Mexico likes the remittances.

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but what about the actual people what makes them so desperate to get out of mexico/south america; crime, unemployment, general despair?

surely the compassionate thing to do is to try and resolve these at source, no matter how difficult or complex.

edit: sorry, just read that article, thats a huge amount of money sent back to mexico, 26 billion in 11 months, surely this can't all be earned through cheap labour jobs.

 

[slotplayer]

but what about the actual people what makes them so desperate to get out of mexico/south america; crime, unemployment, general despair?

surely the compassionate thing to do is to try and resolve these at source, no matter how difficult or complex.

edit: sorry, just read that article, thats a huge amount of money sent back to mexico, 26 billion in 11 months, surely this can't all be earned through cheap labour jobs.

yes, the amount is correct. I don't think its all through cheap labor. They earned it fair and square so they can do whatever they want with it.

I think they give aid but can't find the dollar amount. Who knows where that money goes.

Both crime/corruption and unemployment, but people are going back to Mexico. Now people are fleeing Central America.

 

[mack341]

They earned it fair and square so they can do whatever they want with it.

Yeah, it shows they're doing it to hopefully get a better life in mexico.

There is an interesting background article on the bbc regarding the mexican cartels, [

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] this part surprised me:

"The legalisation of marijuana in parts of the US has driven Mexico's cartels to push harder drugs like methamphetamine, heroin, and fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid.

This has fuelled an epidemic north of the border, with

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, up 21% from the previous year."

Mexico's cartels are notorious for their extreme violence. Beheadings and torture have become commonplace over the past decade. Victims are sometimes hung from bridges or dissolved in barrels of acid. Some cartels post graphic execution videos on social media to intimidate their enemies.

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in two decades, with more than 25,000 murders, official figures suggest.

edit: Interesting I see mexico has a new president:

"Corruption is... the result of a decadent political regime. We are absolutely convinced that this evil is the main cause of social and economic inequality, and also that corruption is to blame for the violence in our country," he said.

He has insisted that no-one involved in corruption will be spared, not even those he calls "brothers-in-arms".

Sunday's election followed one of Mexico's deadliest campaigns in decades with more than 130 political candidates and party workers killed.

He's got his work cut out but I hope he succeeds.

 

[slotplayer]

Yeah, it shows they're doing it to hopefully get a better life in mexico.

There is an interesting background article on the bbc regarding the mexican cartels, [

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] this part surprised me:

"The legalisation of marijuana in parts of the US has driven Mexico's cartels to push harder drugs like methamphetamine, heroin, and fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid.

This has fuelled an epidemic north of the border, with

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, up 21% from the previous year."

Mexico's cartels are notorious for their extreme violence. Beheadings and torture have become commonplace over the past decade. Victims are sometimes hung from bridges or dissolved in barrels of acid. Some cartels post graphic execution videos on social media to intimidate their enemies.

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in two decades, with more than 25,000 murders, official figures suggest.

edit: Interesting I see mexico has a new president:

"Corruption is... the result of a decadent political regime. We are absolutely convinced that this evil is the main cause of social and economic inequality, and also that corruption is to blame for the violence in our country," he said.

He has insisted that no-one involved in corruption will be spared, not even those he calls "brothers-in-arms".

Sunday's election followed one of Mexico's deadliest campaigns in decades with more than 130 political candidates and party workers killed.

He's got his work cut out but I hope he succeeds.

yes, I heard about the murders and the candidates/party workers being murdered.

I hope he succeeds to, good for both countries.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Mr. T considers North Korea already as "problem solved" and he deserves not just all credit but also the Nobel and any other prize the world can think off.

This weekend has shown what fantasies and lies Mr. T, Pompano (Pompeo), Nauert, Bolton et al have dished out to the world in the weeks since the photo-OP in Singapore.

P after his weekend in NK (note: he was there for less than 36 hours):
- "We had many hours of productive conversations. These are complicated issues, but we've made progress on almost all the central issues. Some places, a great deal of progress. Other places, there's still more work to be done."
--> reading between the lines of diplomatic speak and in clear English --> "We achieved nothing"!
--> many hours of.... - does he really think 36 hours are many hours for such a negotiation?

- "‎We talked about what the North Koreans are continuing to do and how it's the case we can get our arms around achieving what Chairman Kim and President Trump both agreed to, which was the complete denuclearization of North Korea."
--> is Pompano clueless or unable to read? Because the correct text of the agreement is actually: "Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula." --> Emphasis on Korean Peninsula!!! So either P. can't read or he is living in a fantasy world just like Mr. T.

Did he really think, that after the Singapore photo-OP, he would march into NK and Kim would have his nukes readily prepared on a golden platter? It is mind blowing to see this coming from somebody who is supposed to be the TOP US diplomat, it sounds more like a school boy, something like "Oh yeah, we played together for hours, great fun."

Then we have the NK statement:
"We expected the US to bring constructive measures to build confidence in accordance with the spirit of the US-NK Summit. However, the attitude of the US in the first high-level talks held on the 6th and 7th were indeed regrettable. The United States is fundamentally mistaken to think that the demands that reflect their 'robbery mentality' are acceptable to our patience."
--> again reading between the lines of diplomatic speak, well, in this case NK speak: "The US brought nothing to the table that would make us even consider to start giving up our nukes."

 

[Harry_BKK]

This pic says it all. Being the second day, you would think that if they are in serious negotiations then the table would have some materials on it, like maps, folders with records for the nuclear sites..... maybe not that detailed but something that shows that they actually interact. Especially, since Nauert said "resumes", hence they probably had a short break. You would expect something on the table but it is squeaky clean.

From my countless meetings in over 3 decades, something like that would signal me that my potential customer sitting against me is not interested at all and will be most happy to see the back of me. I used to call this kind of meetings: "face showing sit-downs with a stale tasting coffee".