North Korea and US politics

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You can't know that for certain, what we do know is he leveraged a billion dollars to get the ukraine's prosecutor fired, the prosecutor appointed by poroshenko and voted in by a majority in their parliament. I think it is a possibility he was trying to help his son's new employers, think of it the other way would he want the ukraine to fire that prosecutor and then hire a replacement who would go after burisma.

For the very last time Mack.

- Hunter Biden was appointed in 2014 as one of more than a dozen foreign board members to provide transparency according to international standards. (very few had any experience in energy)
- Burisma was under investigation for the years 2012 - 2014, more exactly Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma
- Shokin was appointed in 2015
- in Dec 2015, the EU, US, IMF and others as well as domestic protesters demanded Shokin's removal because he was NOT investigating corruption cases. (This is the moment where Biden Sr made his now-famous request. It was in agreement with all other countries and institutions)
- in March 2016, Shokin is finally fired or resigns, your pick.

Then
- in 2019, he says in a sworn affidavit that Poroshenko asked him to shut down the Burisma investigation, which he says he declined. This affidavit was in support of Firtash, the most corrupt oligarch who is now staying in Vienna and fighting extradition to the US for a corruption and money laundering case.
- a few days later, his deputy at the time, said and provided documents that the Burisma investigation had actually been dormant, proving that Shokin was lying.

The three stooges
- Cue in Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, big friends of Guiliani and Mr T, who are associates of Firtash, the exact same corrupt oligarch
- Firtash is feeding them the money (as stated by one of the two) which they funnel to various Republican election campaigns, congressmen, senators and .....drum roll.... Mr T Relection Campaign fund.
- Firtash is also paying the three stooges - Lev, Igor and Rudy

The build-up
- In 2018, Mr T via Guiliani get's to know about Biden Sr demanding the removal and Hunter Biden's position on the board of Burisma
- He is sending in Mr Guiliani to dig up the dirt that he can use for another "Lock him (her) up" chant in his rallies.
- Yovanovitch does not play ball and she needs to go. So in 2019, they start a smear campaign which ultimately leads to her removal. (And that after she was asked to extend her tenure just a few months earlier because..... wait for it.... she was doing such a good job in rooting out corruption)
- Starting April 2019, Lutsenko, the current prosecutor at the time tries to curry favours with the US to show his new boss (Zelensky) that he is worth keeping in the position. He made a statement about Biden in an interview which he later retracted as untrue.

The three amigos
- After the removal of Yovanovitch, Mr T needs a new team to pressure the Ukrainians
- Cue in Perry (who is convinced Mr T is the "chosen one), Volker and Sondland under the direction of Rudy, who gets his orders from Mr T ( do you see the clever construct as it detaches Mr T and provides plausible deniability)
- The first thing Perry presented to the new Ukraine president was a list with buddies to be appointed to the Naftogaz board. One of his best buddies and a big donor to his campaign gets then a 50-year deal with Naftogaz although the bid was more expensive my a big margin than that of a competitor. They cited "more experience" as the reason. Right! :rolleyes:

Zelensky
- Zelensky gets elected and needs support from anyone possible to show that he's standing up to Russia
- Cue in Mr T who now smells blood. White House visit, phone call, meeting at the UN (or some other conference), military aid - all neatly aligned for Mr T to get his "dirt" on Biden.
- The military aid was approved by Congress in Feb 2019. In May 2019, the DOD confirmed that they are happy with Ukraine's progress in the fight against corruption, which is usually the last hurdle before aid is released.
- June 2019, probably earlier - Mr T freezes the aid as he needs it as leverage and ......wait for it..... does not inform Congress as the law requires.

The phone call

- On 25th July 2019, Mr T speaks to Zelensky and clearly states "We would need a favour though". He does not mention once, not a single time, the word "corruption", what he later claims to be caring about. The only things he mentions are Biden and things related to him.
- In the weeks up to the phone call are frenzied efforts by the three amigos, Mulvaney and probably a few others to get the Ukrainians to agree to the demands and announce the investigations. Sondland called it "the deliverable" while Bolton called it a "drug deal".
- The full transcript of the call is immediately hidden on a super-secret server.
- Aug 2019 - Whistleblower files report. IG does his investigation and finds it "credible" and "urgent", hands it over to the next in the line of command who then runs to the White House and DOJ instead of Congress
- Mid Aug 2019 - emails and documents show that Mulvaney, Eisenberg and others in the WH were in a frenzy to find excuses and legal loopholes to justify holding back the aid that they could parade out and show that there was a real reason (caveat: they found none :rolleyes: )
- Aug 2019 - the DOJ decides not to pursue an investigation, saying they saw nothing and there is no there there
- End of Aug 2019 - the first news outlet reports about the whistleblower
- Beginning of Sep 2019 - the IG decides to inform Congress about the whistleblower report as the law requires, although it was objected by the WH lawyers, DoJ and acting DNI chief.
- DNI chief takes another week before he hands it over to congress
- 9th Sep 2019 - Mr T has a phone call with Sondland where he says the famous lines: "I want nothing, no quid pro quo" after he learned that the report is going the Congress
- 11th Sept 2019 - aid is released.

Probably left a few things out but this is the essence mack. Investigate the Bidens to hell and back but it does not change the fact that Mr T committed an impeachable offence by asking a foreign government to interfere in a US election and then tried to cover it up. No excuses you or all other fans of him can come up with will change that fact.

Personally, I am not sure what I should consider being worse. The corrupt build-up or the actual demand for interference.
 
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For the very last time Mack.

- Hunter Biden was appointed in 2014 as one of more than a dozen foreign board members to provide transparency according to international standards. (very few had any experience in energy)
- Burisma was under investigation for the years 2012 - 2014, more exactly Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch behind Burisma
- Shokin was appointed in 2015
- in Dec 2015, the EU, US, IMF and others as well as domestic protesters demanded Shokin's removal because he was NOT investigating corruption cases. (This is the moment where Biden Sr made his now-famous request. It was in agreement with all other countries and institutions)
- in March 2016, Shokin is finally fired or resigns, your pick.

Then
- in 2019, he says in a sworn affidavit that Poroshenko asked him to shut down the Burisma investigation, which he says he declined. This affidavit was in support of Firtash, the most corrupt oligarch who is now staying in Vienna and fighting extradition to the US for a corruption and money laundering case.
- a few days later, his deputy at the time, said and provided documents that the Burisma investigation had actually been dormant, proving that Shokin was lying.

The three stooges
- Cue in Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, big friends of Guiliani and Mr T, who are associates of Firtash, the exact same corrupt oligarch
- Firtash is feeding them the money (as stated by one of the two) which they funnel to various Republican election campaigns, congressmen, senators and .....drum roll.... Mr T Relection Campaign fund.
- Firtash is also paying the three stooges - Lev, Igor and Rudy

The build-up
- In 2018, Mr T via Guiliani get's to know about Biden Sr demanding the removal and Hunter Biden's position on the board of Burisma
- He is sending in Mr Guiliani to dig up the dirt that he can use for another "Lock him (her) up" chant in his rallies.
- Yovanovitch does not play ball and she needs to go. So in 2019, they start a smear campaign which ultimately leads to her removal. (And that after she was asked to extend her tenure just a few months earlier because..... wait for it.... she was doing such a good job in rooting out corruption)
- Starting April 2019, Lutsenko, the current prosecutor at the time tries to curry favours with the US to show his new boss (Zelensky) that he is worth keeping in the position. He made a statement about Biden in an interview which he later retracted as untrue.

The three amigos
- After the removal of Yovanovitch, Mr T needs a new team to pressure the Ukrainians
- Cue in Perry (who is convinced Mr T is the "chosen one), Volker and Sondland under the direction of Rudy, who gets his orders from Mr T ( do you see the clever construct as it detaches Mr T and provides plausible deniability)
- The first thing Perry presented to the new Ukraine president was a list with buddies to be appointed to the Naftogaz board. One of his best buddies and a big donor to his campaign gets then a 50-year deal with Naftogaz although the bid was more expensive my a big margin than that of a competitor. They cited "more experience" as the reason. Right! :rolleyes:

Zelensky
- Zelensky gets elected and needs support from anyone possible to show that he's standing up to Russia
- Cue in Mr T who now smells blood. White House visit, phone call, meeting at the UN (or some other conference), military aid - all neatly aligned for Mr T to get his "dirt" on Biden.
- The military aid was approved by Congress in Feb 2019. In May 2019, the DOD confirmed that they are happy with the Ukraine progress in the fight against corruption, which is usually the last hurdle before aid is released.
- June 2019, probably earlier - Mr T freezes the aid as he needs it as leverage and ......wait for it..... does not inform Congress as the law requires.

The phone call

- On 25th July 2019, Mr T speaks to Zelensky and clearly states "We would need a favour though". He does not mention once, not a single time, the word "corruption", what he later claims to be caring about. The only things he mentions are Biden and things related to him.
- In the weeks up to the phone call are frenzied efforts by the three amigos, Mulvaney and probably a few others to get the Ukrainians to agree to the demands and announce the investigations. Sondland called it "the deliverable".
- The full transcript of the call is immediately hidden on a super-secret server.
- Aug 2019 - Whistleblower files report. IG does his investigation and finds it "credible" and "urgent", hands it over to the next in the line of command who then runs to the White House.
- Mid Aug 2019 - emails and documents show that Mulvaney, Eisenberg and others in the WH were in a frenzy to find excuses for holding back the aid, that they could parade out and show that there was real reason
- Aug 2019 - the DOJ decides not to pursue an investigation, saying they saw nothing and there is no there there
- End of Aug 2019 - the first news outlet reports about the whistleblower
- Beginning of Sep 2019 - the IG decides to inform Congress about the whistleblower report as the law requires, although it was objected by the WH lawyers, DoJ and acting DNI chief.
- DNI chief takes another week before he hands it over to congress
- 9th Sep 2019 - Mr T has a phone call with Sondland where he says the famous lines: "I want nothing, no quid pro quo" after he learned that the report is going the Congress
- 11th Sept 2019 - aid is released.

Probably left a few things out but this is the essence mack. Investigate the Bidens to hell and back but it does not change the fact that Mr T committed an impeachable offence by asking a foreign government to interfere in a US election. No excuses you or all other fans of him can come up with will change that fact.

Personally, I am not sure what I should consider being worse. The corrupt build-up or the actual demand for interference.

Daaamn.
I sure hope i never end up on opposite side of Harry in a discussion. :p

@Steviedoo
That photo was probably taken just after he had spent all that time in the army.
Thats why hes so buff. :)
 
@mack341

Here's another nugget for you to chew on. :D Found it in a US forum.

"Trump is now pushing the “steel slats” wall because the steel company is owned by allies of Putin and friends of the Trump family. EVRAZ is owned by the RUSSIANS!!! As of April 2015, Lanebrook Ltd. held 63.70% of the company's shares, with the ultimate beneficial owners being Roman Abramovich (31.03%), chairman Alexander Abramov (21.59%) and CEO Aleksandr Frolov (10.78%). The contract that Trump wants to upgrade existing barriers in the San Diego area involves 14 miles of steel slat construction by a Texas company SLSCO using EVRAZ steel.

Only 14 miles and the cost to the taxpayer is $147 MILLION dollars!!! You don't have to be a math wizard to figure out that the great deal maker is paying TEN MILLION DOLLARS a MILE for a see through fence.

Here’s another nice tidbit of information: 40 percent of the steel created so far for the Keystone XL pipeline was manufactured in Canada by a subsidiary of EVRAZ. EVRAZ has also actively lobbied against provisions which would mandate that Keystone XL's steel be made in the U.S. Yet, one of Trump’s first actions in office was to sign an executive order on January 24th, expediting the approval of the Keystone XL pipeline!

Who do you think is making big money on the side from these deals???"
 
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mmm I don't know...I think I'll have to wait for more developments re trump's impeachment, it all seems very complicated, the plot is like a house of cards.

You can just tell the from the output of the anti trump media outlets (uk and us) that they're not riding the crest of a wave, it feels more like a damp squib.

I think yesterday there was a cnn article with a title like 'trump is now on rockier ground' I guess it was also a pun too :laugh: on that pic, but a new development yesterday put him on shakier ground, which is an admittance that the hearing didn't damage him that much and new info/testimony is required. And yet you've laid out that timeline already as proved beyond doubt.

I agree these oligarchs are dodgy, firtash etc but they're also not likely thick in the brain cell dept, so it could take time to unravel their schemes, politician's weakness is they always need funding by somebody.

It does seem also Trump is trying to distance himself from giuliani now, saying he's got a lot of clients. I mean the guy's no spring chicken I very much doubt he's an active attorney, representing people. So I think trump is telling a porky there.

Then again trump is proceeding like a man not unduly worried or concerned, that's my impression, if you're rattled it normally shows.

edit: I forget things :laugh: so when you say 'for the very last time' please can you take into account my memory lapses, I don't think the hunter biden angle is quite dead until the republicans stop mentioning it and digging about it, once they move on from that, then okay it's done, but at the moment they smell blood like a shark from a mile off.
 
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@mack341

Here's another nugget for you to chew on. :D Found it in a US forum.

"Trump is now pushing the “steel slats” wall because the steel company is owned by allies of Putin and friends of the Trump family. EVRAZ is owned by the RUSSIANS!!! As of April 2015, Lanebrook Ltd. held 63.70% of the company's shares, with the ultimate beneficial owners being Roman Abramovich (31.03%), chairman Alexander Abramov (21.59%) and CEO Aleksandr Frolov (10.78%). The contract that Trump wants to upgrade existing barriers in the San Diego area involves 14 miles of steel slat construction by a Texas company SLSCO using EVRAZ steel.

Only 14 miles and the cost to the taxpayer is $147 MILLION dollars!!! You don't have to be a math wizard to figure out that the great deal maker is paying TEN MILLION DOLLARS a MILE for a see through fence.

Here’s another nice tidbit of information: 40 percent of the steel created so far for the Keystone XL pipeline was manufactured in Canada by a subsidiary of EVRAZ. EVRAZ has also actively lobbied against provisions which would mandate that Keystone XL's steel be made in the U.S. Yet, one of Trump’s first actions in office was to sign an executive order on January 24th, expediting the approval of the Keystone XL pipeline!

Who do you think is making big money on the side from these deals???"

That is a lot of heavy steel though, as it's not a chain link fence. Does seem a bit expensive but is that also the construction, not just the raw material cost? A million per 160 metres.

I would say owned by russians, rather than 'the russians' which could imply the russian state. And remember russia is supposed to have economic sanctions placed on it, so I doubt this firm, evraz, is viewed as part of the russian economy. Just seen it's on the uk ftse 100, so won't be paying corporation tax to Vlad?...but maybe some large backhanders here and there certainly.
 
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I'm starting to form a broader understanding of the issues here, the deep state want firtash extradicted, where he can spend the rest of his natural behind bars, safe out of the way, for them, of influencing the ukraine's internal affairs with money.

Firtash hired toensing and digenova to see if a deal with trump could be made, [presumably in exchange for dirt on the dems and biden] they spoke to giuliani and they then had a meeting with Barr, but he said no deal [which supports my previous view that barr is no real ally of trump, more there to control things on behalf the deep state/republican establishment, hence these 2016 spying on trump investigations will come to little]

Firtash had previously won a case in austria to avoid extradiction but it was then overturned on appeal, I don't know if he has run out of appeals and will now be extradicted.

It is interesting how often toensing and joe were on Fox a month ago or so, and how now you never see them hmmm...just like rudy :rolleyes:

Almost as if Fox have an inside track to how the story is going to develop, either they've worked it out for themselves or been tipped off. Alternatively they're asked to go on but decline, preferring to keep quiet, and wait for developments :confused:

rudy's twitter today:

NYT #FAKENEWS

I did NOT pursue a business opportunity in Ukraine, as they misrepresented. I could have helped them recover $7B in stolen money, but I didn’t. Was paid ZERO. They attack me because I have exposed their hypocrisy & how they covered up Biden’s massive corruption!

Rudy's got this bad habit of not being clear, like above who is he referring to when he says 'them' :confused: the ukrainians I guess [you can see why he and trump got on so well, they're probably the only two who can understand each other's riddles and lack of explanations :laugh:]
 
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That was amazing! felt sad at 1.22 then great at 1.32. He must've got bitten a few times. I hate blinkin snakes, with their evil fangs :mad:

Unless they were venemous, he is probably fine.
Looks to have pretty thick skin,
Pretty amazing how well made the nature documentarys are nowadays.
 
Unless they were venemous, he is probably fine.
Looks to have pretty thick skin,
Pretty amazing how well made the nature documentarys are nowadays.

Was pondering whether or not to tell you this.

You do know that video is a few years old. And it was made up of many clips edited together to give the final clip.

So it was not actually one Iguana running away from all those snakes. Tho it is a good video.
 
It's one of the few things the bbc still does well, hopefully we'll have plenty of nature and wildlife left but I'm not confident. Too many greedy people making billions, sucking the world dry is more important to them than preserving habitat for the other creatures born on this planet.

Edit: Just seen Paul's post above, it rings a bell now, I think they did do some tricks to get the footage they wanted :(
 
It's one of the few things the bbc still does well, hopefully we'll have plenty of nature and wildlife left but I'm not confident. Too many greedy people making billions, sucking the world dry is more important to them than preserving habitat for the other creatures born on this planet.

You are right about that. They make great nature programmes that are always good to watch. But soon there won't be enough wildlife left to film:(
 
You are right about that. They make great nature programmes that are always good to watch. But soon there won't be enough wildlife left to film:(

Totally agree, I think at the rate we're going, there won't be much wildlife left in 30 years or less. How we treat the other animals, who we have a great advantage and power over is terrible. I think there is an annual seal slaughter in canada and the faroe islanders all come out at certain times and just attack beached whales iirc... 'the grind'...:mad:

Maybe I'm being unfair but these 'traditional folk' events make my blood boil.
 
What were we talking about again?
Oh thats right, Lizards.
They are pretty neat, and heres a pretty neat clip from Planet earth 2.

Better than most action movies. =)

Just happened to have the knight rider theme tune playing on the tv as i watched this. Great experience, would recommend.
However, I like the planet earth, more specifically the blue planet for the deep water goatwacks that it is said apparantly exist within such depths. If that program has been faked too, imma start kicking gum and chewing ass.
 
And in the latest news, the second ex_Deutsche Bank top shot connected to Mr T committing suicide, out of the blue. All coincidence? Just like Epstein? :confused:

Caveat: All three cases were suicide by hanging themselves.

Who is next? Rudy?

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I was just about to post the same story, but my angle would've been slightly different - do the dem supporters still think there is no deep state at work in the US or UK, France etc.. the term is not necessarily important, but I believe Govts do use assassins/killers to remove potential problems, as long as you have a dishonest coroner you're in the clear.

Edit: who was the first banker Harry, all I can find is this latest story?
 
Thought you would come up with another "deep state" theory...

Nope, no deep state, simply just investigators closing the "ring of fire" around them and they decide then that its better to go out with a bang. Nothing else mate, no magic or deep state. You can stop drooling. :D
 
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