CM Announcement New forums for non-Accredited casino promotions

[maxd]

As many readers will know a long-standing rule at Casinomeister has been that only Accredited casinos are allowed to promote on the site. With new ownership and the pressures of keeping up to date in an ever-evolving industry we are now changing that promotions rule effective immediately.

There are clear rules posted at the top of each of those new forums and the casino reps that post there are expected to respect and comply with those. For example:

To go along with all this we’ve now got Forum Rules specifically for the iGaming Reps:

Forum Rules for iGaming Reps

We fully expect there to be a few bumps along the way as we adapt to this new way of doing things.
So, if you see anything that doesn’t seem right please help us by flagging suspect or offending posts to our attention.

Last thoughts: I thought I should mention that we consulted a number of the senior casino reps here on the forums to get their input on these changes. As ever, many thanks for them for helping us focus in on what was most important.

Regards,

Max Drayman
Senior Forum Moderator

 

[Jono777]

Promotions from non accredited casinos, hmmm.....

Like to try and remain focused and positive but feel it a case of crossing those fingers super tight with this one.

Hope there is plenty of extra space available on your PAB desk

 

[goatwack]

You'd think 26 years curating an expert list of reputable Accredited casinos was all for nought!

All aboard the money train choo choo!

 

[maxd]

Fact is guys Gentoo has shareholders they need to please and they didn’t buy Casinomeister to make it a museum. Casinomeister can and should make more money than it has been and Sales is just a necessary reality.

We’re working hard to do this in the least intrusive, least destructive way possible and this is what we’ve come up with. If you have suggestions please share them.

- Max

 

[Kroffe]

Neat.
Finally i can advertise Kroffe Casino and its awesome sign-up bonuses.

First deposit: 1000% deposit bonus up to €100k, all deposit bonuses on Kroffe Casino are wager free.
10 Freespins on Starburst on sign-up, bonus money won will be converted to real funds after fulfilling the 150x wagering.


Hope to see you there!

 

[bamberfishcake]

Interesting....

 

[greylady]

Oh dear! Down the slippery slope we go

 

[maxd]

Guys, come on! Look at that Del Oro thread from a while back. Gaffes aside, it WAS a very active thread from a totally non-Accredited casino and a lot of people were into it, obviously thanks to the eager rep but that’s kind of the point. Having more activity on the casino side of things is not NECESSARILY a bad thing. Give us some credit for being aware of the risks, for having learned a few things from Bryan over the past decade or so, and trying to do this the best possible way.

Seriously, moaning and sh*t-casting the future isn’t going to help anyone. Let’s take this seriously and work together on getting it right. Your constructive input is very much welcomed and I can tell you for a fact that the corporate overlords are very much interested in this going well, meaning NOT torpedoing Casinomeister, meaning your input and opinions matter. But doom-saying it all is not going to cut it, that’s just back-pressure that we have to endure as we struggle to find a workable way forward.

- Max

 

[jasonuk]

Guys, come on! Look at that Del Oro thread from a while back. Gaffes aside, it WAS a very active thread from a totally non-Accredited casino and a lot of people were into it, obviously thanks to the eager rep but that’s kind of the point. Having more activity on the casino side of things is not NECESSARILY a bad thing. Give us some credit for being aware of the risks, for having learned a few things from Bryan over the past decade or so, and trying to do this the best possible way.

Respectfully, I'm not sure this is a good example - actively trying to recruit UK players, misleading players about RTP, withdrawal fees (and uncapped at that), misleading terms and conditions, a strong whiff of fake reviews on other platforms, credit cards and debit cards deposits for jurisdictions that cannot legally provide them, and now a player in the thread being targeted by (undisclosed) sister casinos when they activated the time out feature on Del Oro... and that's in seven weeks.

I appreciate the enthusiasm and activity, but if the casino has that many flags then are they a good fit for CM?

I do appreciate it's going to be more difficult - particularly taking a more positive stand in contrast to the hives of discord, telegram and whatsapp groups flooding people with "vetted" promotions from casinos with no reputation and/or no ethics. Times have changed for the industry, and I guess we'll see how that applies to CM in the coming months.

 

[maxd]

Yes, clearly the Del Oro case is not a shining example of how we want to be bringing new casinos onto the site. Please remember, I did say “gaffes aside”, and I’m fully aware there were plenty, some were ours, and even some I’m not at liberty to discuss. My point was that there is obviously still enthusiasm out there for discussing, debating and if necessary "holding feet to the fire” on new (to us) and non-Accredited casinos. That, at least, the Del Oro case proved.

The bottom line is that Casinomeister’s traditional model for reviewing and hosting debate and discussion on non-Accredited casinos has now morphed somewhat. Whereas the previous model was “no one but Accredited casinos can promote” we’re now into “unvetted casinos with a rep available can promote (within strong limits) until such time as they prove themselves unworthy of that privilege”.

Clearly that change can be percieved as lowering the bar a bit in that unvetted casinos can now have a (limited) voice here at Casinomeister. Whether that change will prove to be a good thing or not for the site remains to be seen, IMO. Others have obviously made up their mind already so yeah, YMMV. Frankly, as someone with 20+ years of online casino forum management under his belt I think the jury is still out.

I do know this though, Casinomeister needs to reach a wider audience and engage that audience more fully in order to have the bright future we all want it to have. I am personally of the opinion that broadening the playing field to include these non-Accredited casinos for discussion and debate might be a constructive part of the strategy to do that, and I’m throwing my weight behind that in order to give it a go. So far the new owners are giving us the freedom to do this our way and for that I am grateful. That gives us an honest chance to do it the Casinomeister way -- straight up, no BS, no white-washing and open to debate. My educated guess is that once we accept that some change is necessary and unavoidable doing it the Casinomeister way is exactly what most of us would want.

- Max

 

[Sonict]

This will be an interesting change and I am behind it for one reason: The "Accredited Casinos Promotions" isn't used enough as it is currently!

This will help and as the reps pretty much have to follow very similar rules to accredited casinos, it should get some more action in here.

I get a lot of us dislike changes once new owners come in as we see with lots of casinos and all, but I have high hopes that whatever changes we get won't affect the bottom line of why we like this site in my opinion.

So much negativity nowadays and I want to change that outcome. For the better!

 

[greylady]

Casinomeister was/is the backbone of trust, casino's tried and tested by players for the players - I am assuming that will remain for those non accredited?

I am not adverse to change, we all have to do this to keep up with the current trends and as a business I understand why Casinomeister is looking to move forward this way.

I just see accredited casino's as offering protection to the player due to regulation. Otherwise we have seen it all, abuse of responsible gambling limitations, delayed payments in the hope the player will 'play it back' , unwanted and solicited spam, even the security of our information being abused and so much more.

We have seen accredited casino's heading down the slippery slope so we can but see how this works out.
My concern was that Casinomeister could lose the trust of the player but hopefully you will prove me wrong.

 

[Webzcas]

Casinomeister was/is the backbone of trust, casino's tried and tested by players for the players - I am assuming that will remain for those non accredited?

Well I for one as I am sure the rest of the forum staff will continue to ensure any negative aspects of any casino are highlighted. Of that you can rest assured!

 

[mulven]

Well I for one as I am sure the rest of the forum staff will continue to ensure any negative aspects of any casino are highlighted. Of that you can rest assured!

And an optimistic outlook is perhaps with the opening of the borders to unaccredited promotions, more reps from casinos will join the forums to push their promotions but also in turn be present to deal with any issues and those who don't respond to player issues can be dealt with.

 

[Webzcas]

And an optimistic outlook is perhaps with the opening of the borders to unaccredited promotions, more reps from casinos will join the forums to push their promotions but also in turn be present to deal with any issues and those who don't respond to player issues can be dealt with.

Exactly that. The more active reps for casinos we have on the forum, the better for the community. No doubt it will also help resolve any issues players may encounter.

 

[dunover]

This will be an interesting change and I am behind it for one reason: The "Accredited Casinos Promotions" isn't used enough as it is currently!

This will help and as the reps pretty much have to follow very similar rules to accredited casinos, it should get some more action in here.

I get a lot of us dislike changes once new owners come in as we see with lots of casinos and all, but I have high hopes that whatever changes we get won't affect the bottom line of why we like this site in my opinion.

So much negativity nowadays and I want to change that outcome. For the better!

Yes, something that I particularly observed recently is the fact that forum interaction and CM promos from the accredited list are becoming rare compared to the heyday, something I expected to see improve with December upon us and Christmas calendars etc.

As some have pointed out there are non-accredited sites that are reliable and honest, providing good transparent service and promotions. At the same time, I can appreciate the consternation of forum members concerning this move as it may be perceived that the traditional CM safety net has been holed.

It is worth reiterating that those non-accredited casinos will furnish CM admin with contactability and cooperation the same as accredited ones do. They will not be given an easy ride or protected in any way from criticism or questioning. And will be expected to respond too.

The fact remains that the gambling world has changed significantly in the last few years. Defined jurisdiction is welcome but due to the dynamics of the modern world with easy cross-border money movement, crypto transactions and mass availablility of common gaming software it has become easier to create and operate new casino businesses and we are seeing the evidence of that fact. So the site has to move with the times and accept this.

The fundamental issue remains the same regardless - it's all about trust and the caveat here is that by being on CM they are open to public scrutiny by you all and therefore any bad actors will be quickly identified as will any other undesirable aspects of their operations and they know this.

Don't forget that this can also play a role in eventual accreditation too and surely it's preferable to have the plethora of new sites out in the open where we can see them and test their perfomance in house?

This is not a move taken lightly and as some have hinted those accredited sites with promo privileges could interpret this negatively as the new sites didn't have to jump through the same hoops to earn that right. Reality though is that accredited sites are a tiny minority of those available to players and their scope for offering player goodies in their fiercely regulated and competitive markets is very limited. Sadly, that's how it is.

If you think about it logically, we are effectively back to 15-20 years ago when the industry first became prominent and licensing was non-existent or in its infancy and new casinos were everywhere, some very suspect. The scene was a minefield and that is the main reason sites like CM came to the fore. So it makes sense to work with them on the inside rather than out. Like it not, that's the reality of 2024 and going forward.

 

[jasonuk]

Yes, clearly the Del Oro case is not a shining example of how we want to be bringing new casinos onto the site. Please remember, I did say “gaffes aside”, and I’m fully aware there were plenty

Indeed, and Kwiff was a thing so it's not unique to the new owners or non-accredited casinos.

I guess the takeaway message from something like Del Oro is the initial quality of vetting - the onboarding was messy, but subsequent discoveries raise question marks why they were onboarded at all.

Clearly that change can be percieved as lowering the bar a bit in that unvetted casinos can now have a (limited) voice here at Casinomeister. Whether that change will prove to be a good thing or not for the site remains to be seen, IMO. Others have obviously made up their mind already so yeah, YMMV. Frankly, as someone with 20+ years of online casino forum management under his belt I think the jury is still out.

The jury is still out for me, I guess my main concern is going to be whether the sites being onboarded as non-accredited are exhibiting behaviour consistent with not recommended or even rogue outfits. If that line starts to blur then I expect that'll tip the balance of opinion pretty quickly.

If you think about it logically, we are effectively back to 15-20 years ago when the industry first became prominent and licensing was non-existent or in its infancy and new casinos were everywhere, some very suspect. The scene was a minefield and that is the main reason sites like CM came to the fore. So it makes sense to work with them on the inside rather than out. Like it not, that's the reality of 2024 and going forward.

It does feel that way - particularly as providers and operators alike can move faster than any regulator ever will, and that will lead to some positive behaviours and some negative behaviours.

The biggest question will inevitably be whether providers and operators are willing to step up to the CM standard of old (and make the industry better as a whole), or whether the CM voice is lost in the sea of snakes and shysters.

 

[Webzcas]

The biggest question will inevitably be whether providers and operators are willing to step up to the CM standard of old (and make the industry better as a whole), or whether the CM voice is lost in the sea of snakes and shysters.

Well all of the current existing forum team were taken on personally by Bryan and have known him for many years. Case of Max and myself 20 plus years for example. I'd like to think we all hold and value the same standards that Bryan does and did.

Whilst Casinomeister may now be in new hands as far as ownership goes. I have seen nothing untoward as to how the forum should be policed. Indeed, it is business as usual as far as I can tell. We mods will call out any casino, as will the membership, should it be required.

But by having these newly created forums for Non Accredited Casinos to showcase their promotions, it will hopefully be in the main a good thing. Whereby we have more reps of casinos contributing to the forum and thus being a point of contact for players.

Plus the membership of this community get many more exclusive offers.

A win / win if handled correctly IMO

 

[satchnz]

Respectfully, I'm not sure this is a good example - actively trying to recruit UK players, misleading players about RTP, withdrawal fees (and uncapped at that), misleading terms and conditions, a strong whiff of fake reviews on other platforms, credit cards and debit cards deposits for jurisdictions that cannot legally provide them, and now a player in the thread being targeted by (undisclosed) sister casinos when they activated the time out feature on Del Oro... and that's in seven weeks.

I appreciate the enthusiasm and activity, but if the casino has that many flags then are they a good fit for CM?

I do appreciate it's going to be more difficult - particularly taking a more positive stand in contrast to the hives of discord, telegram and whatsapp groups flooding people with "vetted" promotions from casinos with no reputation and/or no ethics. Times have changed for the industry, and I guess we'll see how that applies to CM in the coming months.

Without the presence of Del Oro on these forums their shortcomings may not have been identified so soon, given the very active and experienced membership here. So maybe we can look at this as a positive?

 

[jasonuk]

Without the presence of Del Oro on these forums their shortcomings may not have been identified so soon, given the very active and experienced membership here. So maybe we can look at this as a positive?

It's an interesting thought.

Arguably there were enough flags already to give them a wide berth, but similarly the experience has exposed even more flags and not all of those were documented previously. The one about shady responsible gambling practices I expect review sites to turn a blind eye to, but most of them didn't mention the withdrawal fees either!

Also a mountain of conflicting information across the various review portals - outdated or misleading claims they're licensed in Curacao (it's Anjouan), the high withdrawal limits (they can restrict players to $1000 at a time, once per 24h with two pending at any time, with withdrawal fees).

This is absolutely where CM can continue to be a valuable resource - so it's disappointing that the CM review also got a number of these points wrong!

 

[geordiecolin]

Sorry but it seems to me like Casinomeister is being bastardized like a prostitute.
I will never touch these less than what casinomiester was all about casinos

 

[Jono777]

Sorry but it seems to me like Casinomeister is being bastardized like a prostitute.
I will never touch these less than what casinomiester was all about casinos

So "Jonosexgodcasino" is not for you then Col?

 

[geordiecolin]

So "Jonosexgodcasino" is not for you then Col?

No but Jonomakesyouspewmoneyfromyourmouthfrombehind dot com makes perfect sense to me m8

 

[maxd]

While I get that some will be terminally sceptical of these non-Accred changes the fact is that we don’t have a lot of choice here, so making the best of it is the task we have at hand. That said, the Gentoo people have been pretty understanding insofar as our wishes for how this be done so … so far so good from our point of view.

So, how is this to be done? From what we understand the process is something like this (work in progress here, numbers are for convenience but nothing more):

1. Sales establishes a relationship with Casino X, including verification that they are licensed and establishing a point of contact at the casino. That contact results in a new rep for Casino X being added to Casinomeister’s iGaming Rep roster.
2. Sales runs the Casino X people — including the rep — through a Welcome Package with contains the necessary links and references to get them up to speed with Casinomeister, know the basics of what’s expected and what’s verbotten, etc.
3. The Content people do a new review for Casino X which usually includes the Max’s Desk comments from me. FTR I write these personally and I check to ensure that what I’ve said is what ends up in that section of the review. I have no control or influence over anything outside of the Max’s Desk section of the review. Webzcas will announce the new review on the forums.
4. The casino starts off in the Neutral Zone, where they go from there depends entirely on how they behave, the feedback we get from the forum readership, and any first-hand information we gather directly through things like the PAB process, etc.
5. Unless it is specifically stated otherwise the casino has not been vetted any further than what has already been stated. Their presence on the forums is what will allow them to be tested, questioned, etc.
6. At this point the new rep hits the forums and is expected to fully comply with the General Forum Rules AND the Forum Rules for iGaming Reps .
7. From that point forward the casino is in play and their fate will largely depend on how they conduct themselves.

Obviously the above refers to the new casinos Gentoo is introducing to Casinomeister. Rules and procedures for reps and their casinos that pre-date the Gentoo era will differ somewhat.

So there you have it, the plan as it currently exists and as we currently understand it. Needless to say this will be an evolving process as we learn what works and what doesn’t and Sales learns how we do things and how best to go about their business at Casinomeister.

I’ve said it before a couple times already but it’s worth repeating: if you have suggestions, advice, constructive criticism, or anything of that nature please feel free and welcome to speak your mind. If you want to tell us we’re stupid and this is all bullshit feel free to say that too but please keep it brief and to the point.

- Max

 

[maxd]

Brief footnote on the above: I’ve heard now from the key people we are dealing directly with in Gentoo and they have more or less given the “thumbs-up” to what I’ve said there. I think we can take that as a general nod that I’ve described the situation fairly and without major omissions.

- Max