NE hacked, CON wont repay me although they got my money($4700)

[bpb]

See below

 

[bpb]

bpb - you know, as well as I do - if you know anything about the casino industry - that Casino On Net would never let your friendly madman cashout. They would "notice" the duplicate account, and promptly confiscate the winnings.

Who said anything about duplicate accounts? Your accomplice is playing on your account, just from a different IP. I've never heard of a non-rogue casino refusing a cashout because they did a traceroute on the IP and saw that the play originated from a different city/state/country from your home address.


In my opinion, this is very much about a casino protecting itself. But it has been made very clear to me by many posters that I know absolutely nothing about the casino industry

 

[dominique]

Devil's Advocate here

If CON returns these funds, then anyone could do the following

1) Give a friend who likes across the country, or preferably, on the other side of the world, the necessary info to transfer $10,000 to the casino from Neteller. That friend does this from an internet cafe or other anonymous location.

2) That friend gambles like a madman to try to hit $50,000 or bust. If he hits $50,000, he withdraws, and you split the profit.

3) If you go busto, the original account holder contacts the casino after a few days and claims fraud. Any investigation into the play will reveal that it took place many thousands of miles away, and that the gambling pattern was very erratic and consistent with a nutjob hacker blowing 10 grand in an effort to screw over the original account holder.

If the casino pays out, it gives scammers a freeroll at making a large score. Casinos need to protect themselves from fraud, and the only way to do so, is unfortunately, to take a hard line stance in instances like this. It sucks when someone gets legititimately hacked and taken to the cleaners, but ultimately it is up to the individual to protect their online finances.


The argument that "The money was lost directly to the casino so they're not losing anything by giving it back" just isn't true.

While I am anything but a friend of 888, I have to agree with this.

 

[jetset]

chris_d: I repeat - submit a PAB and Bryan will use his senior contacts at Neteller to confirm this and find out exactly what happened. He needs the PAB from you authorising his involvement before he can act, and this could be a fast route to putting this matter to rights once and for all.

888.com may claim that they will not enter into correspondence with you, but they are required to respond to eCOGRA if you submit a complaint to the Fair Gaming Advocate, so that avenue of exploring a solution is still open, too.

Then there is the 888.com licensing jurisdiction, which fortunately is one of the better ones and will give you a hearing.

Start with the 'Meister and work your way down the list until you have cracked this.

 

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

silcnlayc, you said

they didn't get a dime out of my Neteller for it was declined due to a note posted in my account saying anything over a certain amount, do not honor.

so I wrote NETeller requesting the same, here is what I received back

I believe the only thing we can do is to lower your Instacash Limit so there would be a lower limit that can be withdrawn from your account.

Thanks

Joe Bella
Account Representative

VIP Member Services

could you please tell me how you went about putting a "note" on your account to limit withdrawals?

thanks in advance.

 

[bb1webs]

... just wanted to add that neteller's response made little sense to me.

to what extent does limiting my instacash amounts protect the amount that a hacker could withdraw from money already in the account?

further to worry me is now I realize even if I keep my balance at a small amount; that apparently the hacker could use the instacash option to steal money from me that I don't even have in the account.

 

[silcnlayc]

In another thread I explained what happened (can't remember which thread) when I contacted all individuals concerned about the attempted breach on my Neteller account.

First, I changed my passcode and closed my Neteller account (called them personallyand e-mailed them) and told them to keep it closed until further notice (which they did for about a week)

Then I wiped my hardrive clean

Then I called Neteller and spoke PERSONALLY on the phone and by e-mail (always get it in writing the meister says) to a CS and had them MANUALLY write in my account under no certain terms will anything above a certain limit be honored.

Called them back 2 days later and requested them to check my account (testing them) to see if anything was posted and they read verbatim what I told them to write and asked them to edit this and put another limit down which they said they would.

Called another few days and asked again if any notice was posted on my account and they again said yes..and told me what was there.

So, I know they will post a notice on the account for I checked and double checked and they passed with flying colors. I also spoke with DIFFERENT CS's every time including the fraud department.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Devils advocate part 2

Devil's Advocate here

If CON returns these funds, then anyone could do the following

1) Give a friend who likes across the country, or preferably, on the other side of the world, the necessary info to transfer $10,000 to the casino from Neteller. That friend does this from an internet cafe or other anonymous location.

2) That friend gambles like a madman to try to hit $50,000 or bust. If he hits $50,000, he withdraws, and you split the profit.

3) If you go busto, the original account holder contacts the casino after a few days and claims fraud. Any investigation into the play will reveal that it took place many thousands of miles away, and that the gambling pattern was very erratic and consistent with a nutjob hacker blowing 10 grand in an effort to screw over the original account holder.

If the casino pays out, it gives scammers a freeroll at making a large score. Casinos need to protect themselves from fraud, and the only way to do so, is unfortunately, to take a hard line stance in instances like this. It sucks when someone gets legititimately hacked and taken to the cleaners, but ultimately it is up to the individual to protect their online finances.


The argument that "The money was lost directly to the casino so they're not losing anything by giving it back" just isn't true.

The owner is not the ONLY one responsible, the casino, or more likely a crooked employee, may also be able to gather enough information to extract a deposit from Neteller. In the casino interface, both Neteller account and PIN are used, this is enough to deposit at a casino, the Neteller passcode is not needed, and the Instacash digits are only needed if instacash is to be used.

With the number of "accidents" that happen with Neteller, they really need to start taking this seriously and invest in a redundancy algorithm or two, the main one needed is for preventing multiple withdrawals from taking place when errors occur at the merchant/casino banking interface.

If deposits are made by credit card, this would not be a problem as the card company would cover the funds in the event of fraud - it'll cost the casinos more, but it is one way players can protect themselves in an environment somewhat free of protection.
If the situation worsens to the extent that the financial security of online gambling is exposed as worthless, casinos risk scaring away all but the most "professional" of gamblers.

 

[Linus]

... just wanted to add that neteller's response made little sense to me.

to what extent does limiting my instacash amounts protect the amount that a hacker could withdraw from money already in the account?

It doesn't. But it does protect your bank account. Also, it keeps them from bouncing checks off your account, which could create even more problems.

further to worry me is now I realize even if I keep my balance at a small amount; that apparently the hacker could use the instacash option to steal money from me that I don't even have in the account.

Yes. That's why you need to make Neteller disable the "Instacash" feature.

Credit cards would be infinitely better - since you're protected against fraud if you use a credit card. But you can't use a credit card if you're an American.

 

[Linus]

bpb - Casino On Net accepted the deposit, declined the withdraw, but allowed the hacker to gamble away all the money he had stolen.

The only one freerolling in this situation is the casino.

 

[bpb]

bpb - Casino On Net accepted the deposit, declined the withdraw, but allowed the hacker to gamble away all the money he had stolen.

The only one freerolling in this situation is the casino.

I have no idea how anything you are saying relates to my post. Did you read what I wrote?

 

[Linus]

If your post doesn't relate to this thread, I have no idea why you posted it.

 

[WagerWitch]

I will just reiterate:

It's a legal issue. Someone using your credit card - for whatever purpose - without your permission is a POLICE Matter.

Directly go to your police department and hand them all the necessary paperwork to show the transactions. Provide them with the information from Neteller - and the Casino.

If you're not willing to go to the Police Department, then chances are you are SOL on getting any return.

Sorry - but that's the thick and thin of it.

In the division I work in, we see an average of 3 - 5 fraudulent credit card actions occur every month. I live in a small town. So - I'm assuming with a larger population - you will have more points of theft.

If you're not willing to report the theft - then you will have to suffer the consequences.

If it is illegal to gamble in your area and you are breaking the law - then those are consequences you will have to deal with as well.

IF you want gambling to be legal in your area - then make the effort to contact your representatives and change the laws or advise them how you choose to have them vote.

Those are your choices - and I'm afraid the casino is 100% in the right.

 

[chris_d]

Yes, I have allready talked to the police and hopefully they will start the investigation soon. Gambling is not illigal here in Sweden so thats no problem. But was is the next step if the confirm that this is fraud but they can´t get the thief? Am I totaly lost then? Is my only hope to see if the police can catch the thief here?

Some how this case feel so wierd, neteller can´t keep my (or somebody elses) money safe, CON and Betcris(the other gamingsite who have $1700) take stolen money and at least CON don´t consider for one second of giving the money back. And then this security that they say has no breach what so ever, then how is it possible to open two accounts in the same name? Sorry for whining about this but the fact is that $6400 is gone, and it looks like I won´t get it back...

 

[Linus]

Chris, I hope the police can do something for you. Unfortunately, 888 is based in Gibraltar, not Sweden. I am glad, though, to hear that Betcris did the right thing.

Since you're in Sweden, where it's legal - you ought to consider using a credit card from now on. (If you decide to keep gambling.) The great thing about a credit card, is that you're not responsible for unauthorized charges.

If you'd used a credit card, Casino On Net would not have been in position to blow you off, the way they have.

 

[Linus]

WagerWitch - you might consider making your disclaimer on your website a little more prominent.

Wager Witch accepts NO liability for any losses you may incur from using the information or links provided on this or any website. Use at your own risk!

You wouldn't want people to think it's safe to play at the casinos you promote, just because you promote them. Especially considering the casinos you're affiliated with.

 

[spearmaster]

WagerWitch - you might consider making your disclaimer on your website a little more prominent.

You wouldn't want people to think it's safe to play at the casinos you promote, just because you promote them. Especially considering the casinos you're affiliated with.

That was uncalled for, Linus. Not only is your post off topic, she didn't ask for your opinion of her site.

 

[WagerWitch]

WagerWitch - you might consider making your disclaimer on your website a little more prominent.



You wouldn't want people to think it's safe to play at the casinos you promote, just because you promote them. Especially considering the casinos you're affiliated with.

ROFLMAO!!

Nah - It's quite alright Spear.

I choose which casinos offer Freebies mostly - and a few that offer good incentives. That's the ones I've enjoyed.

I make no guarantees that anyone is going to win - just that those casinos are offering deals that might be fun for online players.

So far - I haven't found any horrid items from them... YET - and IF I should, I'll pull them.

I happen to have liked the way I've been treated by the casino reps - the cashouts and the way they've handled me personally.

However - if you've got some skinny you want to share - please, by all means - without addressing it here on the CasinoMeister Forum - feel free to PM me or drop me a line. I'm all about learning, understanding and listening.

But if you're just being rude well then you can KMA.



And I don't accept responsibility for anyone else's gambling choices... Just like Jack Daniel's doesn't accept responsibility for idiotic people driving drunk after consuming Alcohol. I do promote responsible gaming - and have an article, specifically aimed at that.

If ya have an issue with me - PM me - don't be a snark on the boards.

 

[Linus]

Joyland & Casino Classic were the ones I was thinking of, but Maxima probably ought to be included in there as well.

I bugs me that - too often - players can't rely on affiliates to recommend good, reliable casinos, but we can - too often - rely on them to take the casino's side in a dispute.

Please don't think I'm specifically talking about you. It's just that your disclaimer struck me as a particularly egregious example. If you (2nd-person, plural) can't stand behind your casinos - I have to ask - why are you promoting them?

Anyway, I don't mean to derail the thread. I still think that Casino On Net can't - or at least shouldn't - get away with taking deposits willy-nilly from anyone with a debit card number, no matter how ill-gotten, while simultaneously waiting for a withdrawal, before performing any security. What it shows is that they don't care where the money's coming from, as long as it's coming in, and that the only security they're interested in, is its own.

I'm not just arguing it's immoral - which it is. Or that it's hypocritical.

It's also bad business. When (if) America gets serious about stopping CON, and other offshore operations, from soliciting Americans, these kinds of things will be part of the reason why it happens.

 

[WagerWitch]

Could you PM or email me your reasons why you believe those companies should be rogued?

I don't see them listed here nor did I find any complaints based on them - anywhere.

If you have information of a specific nature that includes Joyland, Casino Classic or Maxima - I would certainly like to be in the know.

However, as I have said - I haven't found negs on them that would discredit them on a massive basis (for example Golden Palace type of stuff, Mapau stuff, etc.)

If you have firm evidence in hand and/or can point me in the direction of those particular casinos having treated multiple players innappropriately - then I'd certainly love to hear it.

wagerwitchad at yahoo dot com is a good addy for me checked at least every other day.

I will admit those casinos that you've listed have treated me fairly, with excellent customer service and I have not found them in the negatives either here or through google.

I stand by my disclaimer - I'm not responsible for your choices in casinos.

If you click on a link - either at my site or any other link - I'm not going to take responsibility for your actions.

I also expect every player to read the TCs and to understand that the casinos are out to make a buck and the players are out to win... And I know there are cheaters on both sides.

So with that said - AGAIN - if you have direct information... not heresay... share it. I'm interested.

EDITED: Noted Joyland in Rogue Casino Listing - Will remove Joyland from my list - I obviously missed that one. It will take 24-48 hours to remove it - tho - just letting you know haven't been able to get into Blogspot for 4 hours - sometimes they go down... Sigh...

 

[WagerWitch]

If you (2nd-person, plural) can't stand behind your casinos - I have to ask - why are you promoting them?

Uhm... Linus... Affiliates are out to make monies based on players sent to the casinos and based on the amount of clicks per link, and... based on amounts wagered against amounts won.

So basically affiliates are there to make money by sending customers to the casinos.

They are nothing more than billboards.

I hope most of us are responsible billboards - but we are not responsible for the speeders on the highway... Yanno?

And No - I don't take it personally. There are few places such as CasinoMeister, GoneGambling that have enough following to get deals on advertisement space... and not per customer brought in.

I take it you don't know what affiliate agreements are and stuff? If you'd like I'd gladly teach you or share with you what info I have - just email the addy above and I promise to answer that which I can.

Luckymeki
WagerWitch

PS - Now - Back to the thread - LMAO - carry on.... *Grin*

 

[vinylweatherman]

Neteller

Chris, I hope the police can do something for you. Unfortunately, 888 is based in Gibraltar, not Sweden. I am glad, though, to hear that Betcris did the right thing.

Since you're in Sweden, where it's legal - you ought to consider using a credit card from now on. (If you decide to keep gambling.) The great thing about a credit card, is that you're not responsible for unauthorized charges.

If you'd used a credit card, Casino On Net would not have been in position to blow you off, the way they have.

Seems CON have got it in for Neteller users! They also have huge WR on anything they get compared with Credit card users, yet with Neteller they can't suffer chargebacks, this is all back to front! Maybe they have had this experience before with a lot of Neteller fraud compared to credit card fraud.

With these two factors in mind, it would seem best to only use credit cards here, or not play at all. This will cost them more in the long run, as US players find it hard to use cards, and European players have their cards debited in Dollars, costing extra. No wonder they have to advertise on the Urinals at Motorway services (Taking the P*** no doubt ).

 

[Linus]

Uhm... Linus... Affiliates are out to make monies based on players sent to the casinos and based on the amount of clicks per link, and... based on amounts wagered against amounts won.

So basically affiliates are there to make money by sending customers to the casinos.

They are nothing more than billboards.

Well, many of them are billboards, but they'd be insulted if you called them that.

 

[chris_d]

Hello. I PAB for about 2month ago and havent heard anything. I must say that Im very disapointed. I have sent like 3-4 reminder mails to casinomeister also sent a few private massages. He doesnt reply to anything and I wrote that its okay for me if he dont have the time but at least tell it to me. The police havent started their inverstigation yet and it feels like it is almost to late to do anything. I have already realized that I wont see the money again but offcourse I still hoping for a solution...
Casinomeister if you read this please tell me your decision in this case.

 

[frufrugirl]

It is a very scary thing to happen especially when it is through a poker site (Paradise Poker was where I got caught with a keylogger) and Neteller which is a very tightly held site where this is where my funds were trying to be with drawn also.


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