More white labels

[jetset]

MORE ONLINE CASINO WHITE LABELS

Now Total E Soft gets in on the white label action

You could be forgiven for thinking that the online gambling market was already saturated with far too many low-end and unidentifiable white label casinos, and certainly the player community seems unimpressed by the concept, which has its player dangers. But that has not stopped the latest entrant into the market, Total E Soft from pressing ahead.

White labels - providing cheaper, fully serviced and managed gambling websites that leave the owner or affiliate free to concentrate on marketing - have been around for some time, and with mixed results from a player safety perspective. The Gibraltar-based St Minver network, for example generates few complaints and appears to diligently check out and monitor its clients. Other groups have been less successful, wreaking havoc with player trust by relentless spamming and other deceptive and unethical conduct.

Total E Soft is offering a white label deal that includes over 100 games covering all the popular genres. Jonathan Francis of Total E Soft says, "It has taken 18 months of hard work by our dedicated team to produce what we believe is the premier White Label online casino software.

"We are aiming our products at entrepreneurs and small businesses, which may not have hundreds of thousands of pounds [sterling] behind them, but would like to become involved in the online gaming industry for a more moderate investment," he added.

"We are taking the lead in this area by eliminating licensing fees, hosting fees and all annual fees, so the client knows that the price they pay initially is the only money they will ever have to pay. We have taken out all the hassle and worry for the client, so they can concentrate on promotions and marketing, and not have to think about meeting monthly targets," Francis concluded.

 

[Mousey]

wreaking havoc with player trust

I don't like the white label concept, don't appreciate the need for white labels (from a player standpoint), and do not like seeing these damn white label casinos multiplying like flies on a carcass....

 

[goldeninternetc]

white label?

I don't like the white label concept, don't appreciate the need for white labels (from a player standpoint), and do not like seeing these damn white label casinos multiplying like flies on a carcass....

I share your opinion in some way. But I am afraid there is nothing that can be done. (yet)

But, as you all know, I have four white label casinos on four of my domains. I have made all possible efforts to make them the best they can be. I have signed an official and legal binding contract stating that the casinos are operated 100% legal and that the player is FULLY looked after the way they should be. This does not only mean I HAVE TO STICK TO THE RULES, but ALSO THEY HAVE TO.

While the software is powered by Microgaming and regulated by Playshare partners, one could assume this is well looked after. I went further than assuming. I made sure it was by signing the legal contract.

I felt that there would and should be no problem operating a white label casino that is well organized and operated by a certified casino company like for instance Playshare partners.

The casinos I have running on my domains are 100% arranged by Playshare partners and powered by Microgaming as you all know. (See: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...-issue.html?highlight=microgaming+white+label)

Also, I feel like this: If you decide to play today in one of the casinos listed on for instance

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and apply for a welcome bonus, you should be able to get it.

If you want to play in another casino listed on that list the day after, you should once more be able to receive a welcome bonus.

Why? Well, Because for the player point of view, you are playing in another casino. Nobody is able to smell on forehand that you are playing in a casino with just another name... but still is the same casino.

Now, if you do not like the white label concept and do not want to play in them or you refuse to play in them, you should know who is white label and who is not.

This is the info I can share in order to prevent anyone who does not want to play in a white label casino and does not know about them.

Other white label casinos that where offered to me:

Casino project Powerpoint presentation (be the dealer):

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Very easy to sign up with them. No requirements as far as I know. They state all is well organized. I feel that it is not. But this is my personal opinion due to the communication I have received form them. Also, there is no list of partners easy to be found. Maybe Brian can look into getting a list of them and post it on the forum for all to view.

Turnkey gaming (Playunited)

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As it was very easy to sign up for one of these casinos, I assume there are many of them around. I see no list of partner casinos. Maybe Brian can look into getting a list of them and post it on the forum for all to view. They are an earnunited.com company. PlayUnited.com is there platform.

And, furthermore,

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gave me this while entering white label casino

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Outdated URL (Invalid)

Old / Expired Link (Old / Expired Link)

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Old / Expired Link

Parlay tells us on their web site:

As a Parlay Network Partner, your front-end website will join other successful partner sites in aggregating players into a centralized gaming operation. New players registering on your site are immediately exposed to a large prize base created by the critical mass of players across the network.

Enjoy all of the benefits of being an online bingo or casino operator without having to manage technical, business, licensing and operational infrastructure. As a network partner, you will be focusing your talents, efforts and resources on marketing, driving players to your website and driving profits.

I feel like the promotion of these white label casinos are only focusing on profit for the webmaster.

And therefor, one should never forget the core business of the casino industry.

The core business of any casino is to make money. They make this money on the losses of the players.

First there was the casino affiliate program. Webmasters where given the opportunity to promote casinos on their web sites and make a certain commission on players they send down to the casino using banners and other promotions offered by casino companies.

Then, as this seemed not enough, they came up with the white label casino idea. Nothing new really. It has been used for many years.

Old / Expired Link for instance. It is the same product made in one and the same factory but wrapped up with a different wrapper with sometimes different prices. And now, it pops up in the casino industry.

As far as the whole white label casinos issue and the question as to why they are here, my answer is quite simple. They want to make more money. No matter what.

I feel it is time to regulate this line of business asap. Once more, If one casino has namea and the player wants a welcome bonus he or she should be able to get it. If he plays in casino b he or she should be able to get a welcome bonus as well. No matter if it is a white label of the same network.

This is besides the fact you may think twice before applying for a welcome bonus. Some of the rules that apply to those bonusses are to crazy to even have the possibility to win something. Example: I played in one casino some months ago where they offered a nice welcome bonus. I won some money but forgot to read the bonus rules. When I wanted to cash out my winnings and I was not able to, I asked support for some advise. They told me that I had to wager 40 times the bonus amount in order to get my winnings. They told me that even if I had won the jackpot, I still would only receive 10 times the amount my bonus was. The rest would be deposited as playmoney . So, win a $250000 jackpot and still only get $2500 and a stunning $247500 in play money. YEAH right..

My personal opinion on bonusses? Leave them alone if you want to make a fair chance..

If this line of business (white label casinos) is not regulated properly, my vote is to delete them all. Make it illegal for all I care. This may seem a bit strange coming from me, but, I feel that honestly and integrity is on the line here.

If you (OP) state that you do not like seeing these damn white label casinos multiplying like flies on a carcass, I am sure you are not alone. In fact, I feel like that as well.

That is why I posted this and vote for better regulations asap.

Sorry if I offended anyone or any company. It is not my intention to offend anyone but it is to improve there where possible. And preferably asap.

 

[aka23]

But that has not stopped the latest entrant into the market, Total E Soft from pressing ahead.

I don't think Total E Soft is a new entrant into the market. They've operated white labels through Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) for years. Note that TotalESoft posts here, and their situation has been discussed.

 

[Zoozie]

ere offered to me:

Casino project Powerpoint presentation (be the dealer):

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Nice presentation actually. I still laughed at "Dorothys Palace", not that I have anything against gay people at all.

But the picture was just really gay!

Many of the casino front pages are well designed though. But like everyone else here I disprove of white labels casino. There are enough casinos out there and the casino games are the same at all the white label casinos from same provider, so I do not really believe in the marketing plot anyway.

 

[Simmo!]

The way regulation is going maybe this will provide a safety net for players in time to come. When the USA finally gets its head out of its arse and realises a regulated environment is a safer and more sensible (and lucrative no doubt) option for its people, and with the UK regulation from 1st September liley to have an effect on not only casinos, but affiliates too, hopefully more transparency will be present to ensure white label operations are operated properly.

At the very least, the UK legislation will either force the providers into stricter licensing jurisdictions, or cut down on their marketing potential.

"We are aiming our products at entrepreneurs and small businesses, which may not have hundreds of thousands of pounds [sterling] behind them, but would like to become involved in the online gaming industry for a more moderate investment,"

That's what worries me most. When I play a casino I don't want to play, or want to know that I'm playing, some low budget, under-funded operation where I am potentially going to have cashout hassles on any half-decent win.

 

[jetset]

I agree - at least with the Playshare guy he gave an undertaking that Playshare (and by association presumably Microgaming) would stand behind their white labels and safeguard the player in the event that things went wrong.

I wonder if Total E Soft will give the same assurance?

 

[goldeninternetc]

I agree - at least with the Playshare guy he gave an undertaking that Playshare (and by association presumably Microgaming) would stand behind their white labels and safeguard the player in the event that things went wrong.

I wonder if Total E Soft will give the same assurance?

In case you are referring to me as the Playshare guy, I would take the casinos on my domains off line immediately if things where not looked after the way they should.

As I stated before, I would not even have them on my domains if all details where not covered in the legal binding contract I signed with them.

So far, there has been no problems at all. There are players playing in the casinos and we have not received one complaint.

Players have had winnings and have been paid promptly!

 

[Simmo!]

In case you are referring to me as the Playshare guy...

I think he was referring to the rep who came and posted

 

[jetset]

I think he was referring to the rep who came and posted

That's right - if things went pear-shaped the white label owner would likely not be in a financial position to look after his/her players - hence the necessity for the assurance that the companies behind the white label (the "sub-licensor" like Playshare and ultimately the software provider who agreed to its software being used) will support the player if things go awry.

Playshare appears to be a well funded and well managed company, and Microgaming has shown in the past on at least three occasions that it will look after players left unpaid when a licensee goes down - it's the principle I'm talking about - not this specific case.

 

[spearmaster]

I think it should be pointed out that there are different kinds of white labels.

Most white labels are nothing but skins for which a particular party has been given the rights to do the marketing for - but it is still the same operator who is responsible for maintaining the finances. In the case of Playshare and Total E Soft, I believe their white labels fall under this category, even though Playshare is itself the licensee of a software, while Total E Soft is a software manufacturer.

Some white labels, however, apparently sublicense their software where the sub-licensor is responsible for all financial arrangements and must share some of the proceeds with the main licensor. I believe we've seen a few of these in the past (can't remember which off hand) including the one where a college student was allowed to operate a casino and obviously sustained significant losses.

 

[mrracetrack]

spearmaster posted:

I believe we've seen a few of these in the past (can't remember which off hand) including the one where a college student was allowed to operate a casino and obviously sustained significant losses.

I believe that was a Futurebet site.

Futurebet was one of the worst managed companies... and allowed just about anybody to open a casino.

Futurebet became one big "black eye" to the online gaming industry.

 

[jetset]

Definitely agree with you on Futurebet, but the 19 year old casino operator was on the IGS platform (tweaked Futurebet source code, I understand) from Argentina....and it was like getting teeth pulled to get them to do the right thing after the teenaged operator quickly went bust!

There's quite a lot of comment on the incident in the archives here.

Really great DD......not!

 

[goldeninternetc]

I think he was referring to the rep who came and posted

haha, lol woops. I did not notice..

 

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

(remove x's) xxxhttp://ownacasino.co.uk/index2.html why are they using MG game screen caps?

They don't use MG software, do they? (As far as I knew they've always used out of date, old software that you'd be going to get anyone to deposit at).

After finding this (the MG screen caps) I did some digging on xxxhttp://www.totalesoft.com

Found @ least one shill with the possibility of two on their home page.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I couldn't find Pharaohs Casino, but did a whois on CasinoMillionaire.com and found that it's owned by Totalesoft.com and has been since 2000. (all whois info at bottom).

I then did a whois on totalesoft.com which was first registered in 2004.

Hence more proof that CasinoMillionaire.com testimonial on the totalesoft front page is a shill.

Which also stands to reason that the Pharaohs Casino testimonial is also lies as well.

I then found further domain that they own, one was casinotropez.co.uk
The weird thing about this was their using a casino tropez (playtech casino) landing page.

If your casino software is so great, so fantastic, wouldn't you been using your own software? I found that really bizarre.

BTW their offices are in Gibraltar, however their game servers are in Costa Rica. I think I read somewhere that they were claiming to hold an online gaming licence in Gibraltar, however, looking here:
xxxhttp://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/gov_depts/internet_gaming/internet_gaming.htm

Their not on the list!

For those looking at join the ranks of this white label casino group, I'd be cautious.


--------------------

Registrant:
Total E Soft Limited
Suite 2
Portland House
Glacis Road
Gibraltar, Gibraltar NA
GI

Domain name: CASINOMILLIONAIRE.COM

Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 07-Sep-2007.
Record expires on 06-May-2008.
Record created on 06-May-2000.

------------------------------

Registrant:
Total E Soft Limited
Suite 2
Portland House
Glacis Road
Gibraltar, Gibraltar NA
GI

Domain name: TOTALESOFT.COM

Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 29-Sep-2007.
Record expires on 19-Oct-2008.
Record created on 19-Oct-2004.

----------------------------

 

[SlotsWizard]

Don't forget about this thread where we exposed their video poker games as being clearly rigged... in case the 109%-return paytables weren't evidence enough.

After we posted about it they "threw the switch" and reverted their paytables and play mode back to normal, but I wouldn't trust any casino that can make this kind of switch so easily.

I do list their video poker games and paytables on my web site, but you won't ever catch me promoting them.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi SlotsWizard,

Thanks for the link, just took a look at it. What can I say, that hasn't already been said except

Combine the two threads and you've got some serious funky, flaky sh#t going on.

 

[lojo]

Please keep it up trezz. The community needs your expose's, it's just information, and I for one, totally appreciate it.

I've given casinoshare or playshare the benefit of the doubt (is that the group or the affiliate label?) on this issue, because the other two 'current' issues were (or are being) dealt with satisfactorily. (sdaddy bonus terms, uplink from CM)

I do have an issue with white labels (is this the proliferation of Rivals?) because I'm a newby and absolutely do not understand the relationships of marketer - casino - customer

If Mario knows why knock-offs are acceptable to the market I am all ears, but unless they originate from GM, I'm not going to personally ask him what its all about.

Lets find the source, and ask the motive.

It's all yours Trezz, and I back you up from here.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Heh heh ... just for giggles I went and calculated the odds of those two hands in a row that I got.

It wasn't as astronomical as I thought - a mere 1 in 4,979,989,701,006,640.

The formula is (11559/16215)^50 * (32/47)^50

 

[lojo]

fiddy fiddy?

I'm daft

 

[SlotsWizard]

fiddy fiddy?

I'm daft

It was 50-hand video poker.

 

[lojo]

It was 50-hand video poker.

Out of my league.. I go high variance

 

[SlotsWizard]

Out of my league.. I go high variance

Apparently Total E-Soft does too.

 

[totalesoft]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to come on and answer the points raised about our company again. I understand fully when we had an error on our software, that you would want to show that and make sure everyone was aware of it. That's fair enough - I held up my hands, admitted the mistake, we rectified it and compensated every player affected. We made an error and paid severely for it.

I am having trouble understanding how, when someone comes on here and makes an accusation, that we get slaughtered again on the same issue with no thought to the reputation that we have done our best to raise again following that problem.

We have never said that we held a Gibraltar license. If anyone else has, then that is an error.

The CasinoMillionaire.com domain name has been owned by us for quite some time, but not since 2000 - as we purchased it from its former owner. We offered this domain name to the client who purchased the casino from us, as it was a good name, and better than one they could come up with. Our client also asked us to keep it registered to us, which we were happy to do. This is the same for all our casinos, and does not mean that we are using a "shill", but that we are accommodating our customer's requests. Both testimonials were from our bona-fide clients. They would not allow us to put up something that was untrue. They have asked to retain their confidentiality, but have agreed that I can provide their details to Bryan, should he want them to check.

Also, as we have said in the past, there is MG software available on the ownacasino site - a couple of you asked about it and we gave full details. There is nothing odd going on there.

As I asked in the past, it would be helpful if we could be allowed to repair the damage that was done in the summer when our VP problem occured, but bringing it to the forefront and making jokes at our expense does not help us do that. I said that if any new issues were brought up that I would attend to them as quickly as the last time. However, this just appears to be raking over old ground.

From what I can see, nobody has complained of being the victim of "rigged" software, of bad customer service, of not being paid or anything of that nature, so I would ask if we could please be extended the courtesy of being allowed to rebuild our reputation. Please remember that in many years of operation of our company, that other thread was the *only* time - to my knowledge - that we have had complaints about us on this or any other forum. I would like to think that at least counts for something.

I realise that I may well get many more negative posts following this, but it was just something that was difficult to let pass, and get out of hand. The VP problem was a major error. True. We are desperately trying to make up for it. My thanks to aka23 for your post in this respect.

I will be attending the ICEi exhibition in January, and would fully welcome speaking to any concerned person about our business.

 

[SlotsWizard]

I realise that I may well get many more negative posts following this, but it was just something that was difficult to let pass, and get out of hand. The VP problem was a major error. True. We are desperately trying to make up for it. My thanks to aka23 for your post in this respect.

I will be attending the ICEi exhibition in January, and would fully welcome speaking to any concerned person about our business.

I appreciate the well-worded post and your honesty. I promise there will be no more jabs about the VP thing from this peanut gallery!

 

[totalesoft]

SlotsWizard - I appreciate the posting! You are a Gentleman.

 

[lojo]

SlotsWizard - I appreciate the posting! You are a Gentleman.

Actually, he's an ugly monster (kind of an inside joke) but he is a man of his word

I wish yu the best of fortunes in regaining your reputation; from what I recal of the situation you handled it soundly; clarity, transparency, open and forthright... didn't tweak or freak under pressure; That in itself speaks volumes about totalesoft in my opinion.

 

[ugaboga]

Totalesoft, which jurisidiction is your license from?

 

[vinylweatherman]

The problems suffered by TotalEsoft are down to this "white label" business. When looking at the casinos from the player's point of view, it just looks "wrong". That line about being unable to publically disclose their clients is most telling. we are being told that we cannot know WHO is behind the casino we are playing at due to "client confidentiality". This screams "spot the rogue", as does having all gaming take place from the well respected juristiction of Costa Rica, where players have absolutely NO recourse should things go wrong.
Further confusion arises from the labyrinth of companies involved, we have Gibraltar, Costa Rica, UK, and much confusion as to the truth. This makes it easy for even the most tenuous accusation to stick and appear to have credibilty. Often, a rogue casino is identified by what is NOT clear, not what is. This then leads to the VP error situation being looked at in a negative light, where an MG casino could apologise, and could quickly rebuild their reputation because Microgaming provide the software, and they are a known entity, as is the software; a casino with little known software, confusion among players as to who owns it, and where it runs from, will have their error cited as proof that they are rogue, and intended the error to be there until caught. There have been many cases where casinos run from Costa Rica and the likes have used rigged software deliberately.

One way that Total E-Soft could speed up their reputation recovery would be to run all their casinos from juristictions that actually care about player protection, or even Kahwanake, certainly not Costa Rica. Best of all would be an EU one, such as Malta or Gibraltar, with the added benefit of being on the UK whitelist, which would give them the right to freely advertise both here, and to the rest of the EU under EU anti trade barrier rules. The Total E-Soft site should also provide a central list of casinos run under their brand, along with details of who players should contact if there are any queries. This contact must be the entity responsible for the player's money, and who would be held liable for monies owed to players should anything go wrong. If Total E-Soft have their clients register under their name because they want confidentiality, then it is Total E-Soft that will be held responsible for paying players should the casino hit trouble, and letting players down in this respect as Futurebet did, will be a fast track to the trashing of any reputation built up since the summer. With this many white labels around, there WILL be problems, we can be pretty certain of that.

 

[ugaboga]

I always assumed Total E Soft was responsible for paying players of their white label casinos? Whilst the responsibility of the white label / turnkey casino owners was simply marketing?

 

[totalesoft]

Hi again,

Vinylweatherman, I understand your concerns about the client confidentiality. However, with our White Label casinos, the entire responsibility lies with TotalESoft for all gaming and financial matters, including paying players, affiliates etc, so having our company on the domain registration actually gives more information to the player about who to contact should they have any issues. The buck, as it were, stops here. We believe that is the way it should be.

Of course, if the white label client was responsible for all this, we would insist on full transparency. Our clients perform marketing and promotion, and sign a contract with us that they will do this in an ethical manner - in other words: no spam, no shill posting, nothing of that nature at all.

With regards to the jurisdiction - I realise fully that Costa Rica has had its fair share of "bad eggs", but there are also many gaming sites operating that have excellent reputations. Likewise, there are some registered with more "recognisable" entities, such as Kahnawake and others, who are absolutely dreadful. That said, it has been and remains our intention, to "upgrade" in 2008.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi again,

Vinylweatherman, I understand your concerns about the client confidentiality. However, with our White Label casinos, the entire responsibility lies with TotalESoft for all gaming and financial matters, including paying players, affiliates etc, so having our company on the domain registration actually gives more information to the player about who to contact should they have any issues. The buck, as it were, stops here. We believe that is the way it should be.

Of course, if the white label client was responsible for all this, we would insist on full transparency. Our clients perform marketing and promotion, and sign a contract with us that they will do this in an ethical manner - in other words: no spam, no shill posting, nothing of that nature at all.

With regards to the jurisdiction - I realise fully that Costa Rica has had its fair share of "bad eggs", but there are also many gaming sites operating that have excellent reputations. Likewise, there are some registered with more "recognisable" entities, such as Kahnawake and others, who are absolutely dreadful. That said, it has been and remains our intention, to "upgrade" in 2008.

Again this raises questions. What value does the client gain if they are kept "confidential". Surely the whole point of a white label was so that a business could have a visible presence in the online gaming arena without having to go to the trouble of operating an online casino themselves.
If the client wants confidentiality, why not just be an affiliate.
If they gain no publicity because they want confidentiality, and you do all the payments, what's the point for the client? It just seems to add confusion where there needn't be any, and for this reason, logic dictates that an ulterior motive must therefore exist in operating this way.
The ONLY one I can think of is that the "confidential" client can disobey your rules and resort to illegitimate marketing tactics, but those receiving the marketing are not able (or allowed) to know who is behind the marketing they receive.
There is a veritable avalanche of casino spam at present from other casinos, and despite this being against their own affiliate/white label rules, it nevertheless happens, and the casinos concerned seem to be able to do little about it.
If one of your clients resorts to such methods (and no doub't there will be some bad apples), players will have no idea who is behind it other than that the spam is for a Total E-Soft casino, so guess who gets all the blame, and who gets highlighted as the company responsible in all the spam watchdog databases. Your own confidentiality rules will prevent identifation of the "bad apples" leaving ALL Total E-Soft casinos, and their agents/affiliates, lumped in with the underbelly of online gaming. This will have an impact on your ability to gain new players, and may even lead to existing players looking for something they perceive as more transparent.

Perhaps you could explain your connection to Intercasino, or is this just more of that blackhat SEO crap!

 

[lojo]

Vinyl is going teeth and toenail into the whitelabel issue. Bravo! The only other answers we've had to date were from Mario, who eventually assured us that his 'system' would be fully 'insured' by playshare.

Totalesoft is offering the same assurances, and that is good.

No one, to date, has been able to offer a reason or motive for these proliferations that settles with me. I accept the 'Mexican Cattleman' analogy... but in the big picture it doesn't wash.

Smoke and mirrors, opacity, confusion: A ripe playground for potential rogue behavior on a level we haven't seen.

IMO affiliates don't need bushes to hide behind - they need to be held accountable for their actions. Casinos don't need to play in candyland either. They can present their skin, or brand, like Virtual does with their vegasstripcasino dot com at the least (like clubworld did with their affiliate 'skin' in another thread)

But that isn't good enough for me. I want to know the MOTIVE, and I want to know the ORIGINATION of the concept. Only then will the player know what to expect. And only then can we trust it.

This is not directed any more to totalesoft than it is to playshare (informing Mario of this post)

 

[totalesoft]

Intercasino? We have no connection to them. Do you mean Interxcasino? We have no connection to them either. I am not sure why this question has been raised. Somebody also suggested we are connected to Futurebet.

I want to make it clear that we have no connection to any of these entities. It appears that we are being targeted for some reason.

Also, I want to make it clear that we have no ulterior motives of any kind with allowing our clients some degree of confidentiality. Our clients simply perform marketing for the white label casino. They are not allowed to do any kind of "illegitimate marketing". This is a stipulation of the contract and is cause for the termination of it. We have had quite enough negative press over the summer to last a lifetime, so there is no way we will allow underhand marketing tactics by any of our clients.

Has anyone here received something? We will act immediately if that is the case. Also, if anyone has an issue with not receiving payments, or anything of that nature, again I will address it right away.

I do try to answer any question put to me at all times, as I hope you have seen, but it seems that every time I do so, it creates a new posting in which people to question our legitimacy in another way. I certainly do not mind entering into a debate with anyone on this forum, but when every point made is either someone connecting us to this or that, or that I have to defend our company against "ulterior motive" issues, it does get a little disheartening. This is not aimed at you Vinyl, it's just an observation of my experience here. Of course everyone will point at our VP problem in the summer - but if every "connection" to other casinos are going to be accepted by everyone without batting an eye, then it doesn't give us much of a chance. As everyone is aware, people will not give you credit for 4 years of good work if there is one error made.

I could understand if people have come on here saying "I won $1000 and they didn't pay me", or "where are my affiliate commissions for last month" - but that hasn't happened (touch wood) because we make sure it doesn't.

Again - I don't want this thread to run and run with new "connections" or ulterior motive issues, for the reason that it keeps drawing people back to something that happened many months ago. We have been, and are still doing work to try to build our reputation up from that.

And please - if you DO receive any kind of unwanted mail from any of our casinos, let me know at once and it will be dealt with quickly.

 

[totalesoft]

Vinyl - that last posting said, I do take on board your "confidentiality" points and will be discussing with our clients to try to get them listed on the site as marketing/promotion. We do have signed contracts with existing clients, but I hope that we can persuade them that it is the right thing to do.

 

[lojo]

My point is about whitelabels; period. You may address me or not, but please don't mix my questions with his, nor ignore them by crying 'victim' about a software issue. You are on your honor, and not being 'attacked' about that. I have alerted ceo playshare to my last post and made it clear that I did so.

I have no dog in this fight.

I want answers.

If you think that certain affiliates have issues with white labels; please pass the buck. I want answers on open forum.

Who created the concept

Why?

 

[lojo]

If totalesoft ignores me again i will resign and 'lojo' will be green here for ever after.

 

[ugaboga]

If totalesoft ignores me again i will resign and 'lojo' will be green here for ever after.

I really don't see what the fuss is about white labels.


It's quite simple, as long as the licensor/software provider is responsible for payments, there is nothing to worry about. I believe this is the case in 99% of white label programs.

The casino website, software is all hosted on the software providers server, as well as customer service being handled by the software provider. There is no sub-license involved. The more worrying issue is rogue sub-licensors like futurebet then white label programs like that of playshare and Total E Soft.

The key point about white label programs, is that it provides the software provider with a multi-pronged marketing initiative. It allows a broad spectrum of different people, with different marketing assests (various different websites, know-how etc) to be able to market a branded casino. Those involved in white label programs are simply responsible for marketing the casino. White label offerings can be very useful for software providers to provide the capability to those who have access to niche markets to market their product.

Where is the risk to players?

1) Software provider is the main licensor, there is no sub-license involved.

2) Software and websited hosted with the software provider.

3) Payments, transactions and merchant facilities maintained by software provider.

etc.

Now I think our attention should be concentrated towards rogue software providers who then issue sub-licenses to operators who lack professionalism, financial accountability etc. Because these sub-licensees ARE responsible for paying their clients. Unlike white label operations, where the software provider is fully responsible and retains control over all aspects of the online casino.

 

[lojo]

What is your


put

??????

 

[ugaboga]

What is your


put

??????

What?

 

[lojo]

What?

Sorry, uga. I deleted a question that I didn't want to misdirect the questions I asked.
Do not misdirect this thread, please.

Are you now or have you ever been AND DO YOU ANTICIPATE ever being associated, affiliated or employed by a 'white label' or anyone associated thereof?



hmm

pay attention don't divert

 

[ugaboga]

Sorry, uga. I deleted a question that I didn't want to misdirect the questions I asked.
Do not misdirect this thread, please.

Are you now or have you ever been AND DO YOU ANTICIPATE ever being associated, affiliated or employed by a 'white label' or anyone associated thereof?



hmm

pay attention don't divert

I am not misdirecting the thread, nor do I have any intentions to do so. I am merely posting my opinion about white labels.

I have no association with any white label operation or for a matter of fact any online casino whatsoever. There is no conflict of interest here. Just another player posting his opinion.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Intercasino? We have no connection to them. Do you mean Interxcasino? We have no connection to them either. I am not sure why this question has been raised. Somebody also suggested we are connected to Futurebet.

I want to make it clear that we have no connection to any of these entities. It appears that we are being targeted for some reason.

Also, I want to make it clear that we have no ulterior motives of any kind with allowing our clients some degree of confidentiality. Our clients simply perform marketing for the white label casino. They are not allowed to do any kind of "illegitimate marketing". This is a stipulation of the contract and is cause for the termination of it. We have had quite enough negative press over the summer to last a lifetime, so there is no way we will allow underhand marketing tactics by any of our clients.

Has anyone here received something? We will act immediately if that is the case. Also, if anyone has an issue with not receiving payments, or anything of that nature, again I will address it right away.

I do try to answer any question put to me at all times, as I hope you have seen, but it seems that every time I do so, it creates a new posting in which people to question our legitimacy in another way. I certainly do not mind entering into a debate with anyone on this forum, but when every point made is either someone connecting us to this or that, or that I have to defend our company against "ulterior motive" issues, it does get a little disheartening. This is not aimed at you Vinyl, it's just an observation of my experience here. Of course everyone will point at our VP problem in the summer - but if every "connection" to other casinos are going to be accepted by everyone without batting an eye, then it doesn't give us much of a chance. As everyone is aware, people will not give you credit for 4 years of good work if there is one error made.

I could understand if people have come on here saying "I won $1000 and they didn't pay me", or "where are my affiliate commissions for last month" - but that hasn't happened (touch wood) because we make sure it doesn't.

Again - I don't want this thread to run and run with new "connections" or ulterior motive issues, for the reason that it keeps drawing people back to something that happened many months ago. We have been, and are still doing work to try to build our reputation up from that.

And please - if you DO receive any kind of unwanted mail from any of our casinos, let me know at once and it will be dealt with quickly.

Perhaps I was mistaken. I thought you ran "The Casino Lobby" as seen here clearly listed on the Intercasino site under "partners"

 

[vinylweatherman]

Clicking on "The casino Lobby" on the intercasino partner page opens this new window.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Clicking on "The casino Lobby" on the intercasino partner page opens this new window.

I have just tried another link, to niteanddaycasino (stupid name), it's a marketing skin for (clicks on play now):-

If this is the kind of "legitimate marketing" allowed, no wonder no-one seems to trust Total E-Soft!!!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

There seems to be an endless supply of these "skin" sites with pretty silly names which act as links for downloading the central casino "Casino Lobby".
This is how this particular "white label" scheme operates, dummy sites in the form of the notorious "Mint Las Vegas" which actually download "Casino Lobby". Since "Mint Las vegas" was used for spamming, there is nothing to stop one or more of these pages also being used in the same manner, and would we even notice as we don't generally click on the links in the E-mails.

There IS some kind of connection with E-Cash Direct, as why else would all these Total E-Soft skins be on the Intercasino page long before many people had even heard of it! Perhaps this shows up one of their confidential clients, and no flippin WONDER they asked for confidentiality.
I wonder where else these pages are, could this be bigger than the Jackpot Factory scandal (that was pretty hard to beat though, because of the text content).

 

[ugaboga]

What's with the intercasino partners page? It seems like a random collection of casino related spam?

Vinyl brings up a good point. These shadow sites are a big no-no. It wreaks of desperation and seems like this particular white label partner didn't have anything of substance to offer when he signed up for the program.

White label partners should bring something to the table for the software provider, such as a current websites / portals, with substantial traffic or membership base etc. Many people think they can be involved in the online casino industry and get rich quick, especially with these types of programs. This is when they resort to this kind of shadowy spam tactics, which almost never work.

Looking at the "niteanddaycasino" link.... It's an awful generic template, I can't see anyone going ahead with the download prompter and playing at "Casino Lobby" through that site. Even the "About us" page seems generic.

No details about the casino operator, relevant contact details etc. Just a shadow website for "Casino Lobby".

If white label service providers are serious, they need to custom design each website, instead of using these awful templates. They need to be transparent, provide relevant details in the about us page (not general details about the online-casino industry!!" and also contact details.

White label casinos ofcourse don't like to appear to the prospective customer that they're merely affiliates and would like to paint the picture that they run their own show... Hence the lack of information on many of these sites. This is where there needs to be a balance, if the software provider is handling financial transactions (payouts/deposits), customer service, hosting etc.. Then they must be transparent with this information throughout the entire website layout.

The other option for people who want to run their own show is a sub-license.

Now with all these shadow sites for Casino Lobby, the greatest harm would be that the customer would simply be lost, as to who to contact for their concerns. We must also check who hosts these shadowy sites, because if it's not totalesoft, they could go offline at any time and the customer would lose the point of contact. Although they would still be in the total e soft customer database, as they would have the downloadable software on their computer.

Still... these sites need to be extremely transparent and forthcoming.

 

[totalesoft]

Vinyl,

I have no idea why we are on a "partners" page of Intercasino. It may well be a reciprocal link thing that was set up a long time ago, probably for Google or the like. We certainly have no connection to them, and we do not to my knowledge have any link back to them now. In fact, I will email them to let them know.

lojo - I was not ignoring you, I just didn't realise your question was directed at me personally. I do agree with ugaboga in that white labels allow to market our software to places that we may otherwise not not reach by marketing it ourselves. There are many other benefits such as being able to harness the various talents of the marketers, who also have the advantage of being able to market their own brand.

Most of the online casinos on the net could be viewed almost as "white label", as they are forms of MG, PT casinos etc.

Vinyl - As we spoke about at length some time ago, the ownacasino site allows people to have their own basic template to promote the software - a kind of "mini-site". That is what those sites are. Of course they are not as good as a fully branded White Label but we do try to keep them updated and relevant. Again, you compare us to this mintlasvegas thing that was spammed around - but I do ask you this, in the whole time the ownacasino program has been running, have you ever received any kind of spam about the Casino Lobby? I doubt it, and this would seem to show that we are not like this other program. I'm very disappointed that you still think that we are connected to Intercasino in some way, or harbouring some kind of "scandal", and it looks like no matter what I say to reassure you, that you will continue to question us.

I'm not sure of the benefit in me trying to continue to contribute to this discussion, as every posting I make seems to generate a new "scandal" and alleged connections with other sites. It concentrates the glare of the bad side of the whole "White Label" issue on our company and encourages people to speculate. There ARE companies who are running white label programs with far less transparency and with impunity. I would much prefer the focus to be on companies who DO treat their players badly, who DON'T pay players and affiliates and who are getting away with it - rather than a company who are trying to do the right thing.

 

[ugaboga]

Total E Soft, I for one highly value your contribution to the forum and this thread specifically.

I believe White Labels are not necessarily a bad thing. The more competition, the better for the consumer. It keeps everyone honest.

I've been looking at some of your white label casinos, do you have any plans to also brand the customer service for each casino under it's respective name? I noticed you have a generic e-mail for customer support for all your casinos. I guess it's a half-way thing, where do you draw the line in a white label program?

 

[totalesoft]

ugaboga - excuse me for the last posting; it was not aimed at you, or at Vinyl, who I believe makes very good points. It is more aimed at those people who just come on here and firstly assume there is something dodgy going on, and THEN decide to look for anything at all that might be even slightly ambiguous. For example, this thread was resurrected after 2 months by someone deciding that we made up our own testimonials - nothing to back this up - and then they don't make any further postings. I come on to put our side, and then it turns into open season. This brings all the focus back onto us, when actually we haven't done anything wrong.

I would just like to make a contribution without continuously having to be on the defensive. For example, I have seen many, many sites similar to our "mini-sites" for PT and MG - but no-one mentions them, only ours. I get spammed on a daily basis for MG and PT casinos, but again no-one mentions that. I can't be the only one getting this spam.

My point - I love a good debate, and will continue to contribute providing this thread does not turn into a TES-bashing one. As I have said repeatedly - if anyone does have a legitimate query about us, such as non-payments, bad customer support, spam allegations etc I will act to rectify it immediately. I always have, and I always will.

Regarding your point - we are actually in the process of "individualising" (is that a word?) each white label's customer support. Casino Millionaire is done and we continue with the others.